The Official Iced Earth Thread v. "Tastes Like Treason!"

[ProfessorPeart]

Since this thread came back around, Jon is looking at possibly 3 years in jail followed by witness protection.

https://www.therepublic.com/2023/06/08/schaffer-seeks-a-sentencing-date-for-plea-bargain-in-jan-6-insurrection-case/

[Grappler]

Since this thread came back around, Jon is looking at possibly 3 years in jail followed by witness protection.

https://www.therepublic.com/2023/06/08/schaffer-seeks-a-sentencing-date-for-plea-bargain-in-jan-6-insurrection-case/

His plea deal includes an option for witness protection.  I can see him taking it, simply because he's been hiding out for a while, last suspected to be living in a trailer park in Florida.  His testimony was unsealed and used in the case against Stuart Rhodes, helping to convict him of seditious conspiracy. 

A family member of his said in the Podcast in Stone group that he's lost "everything."  It's really sad to see, and to know that he was one of the first 6 people inside of the capitol building that day, throwing away his career over it.

I'm glad that Matt and Freddie are playing some Iced Earth songs though. 

[MirrorMask]

It's more maddening than sad. To completely destroy a legacy, a livehood and a band over.......... that.

[Samsara]

I have absolutely no sympathy or empathy for Jon Schaffer. I know this teeters on the political section of the board, but it's unavoidable when talking about Jon and Iced Earth. What Jon did was wrong. Deep down, he knew it was wrong. Sure, opinions about the state of the country and what is going on is one thing. Acting on it in the manner in which he did is inexcusable. I'm not here to argue political ideologies. But if Jon truly believed there was/is a conspiracy to take freedom and liberty away from the American people, and that Trump was being unfairly handled, there are other ways to go about it. He's not some Civil War hero. (Not saying anyone said that at all, just making a point.)

The fact is, yes, there are big problems in the country at EVERY governmental level. But there's no over-arching conspiracy, despite "research" done by certain groups. America isn't lily-white any longer. It really never was. America isn't conservative any longer, except at the Supreme Court level. The country is based on absorbing other cultures and their ways of thinking. We've assimilated a lot of more liberal-centric ideologies over the years. That creates issues - that should be obvious to anyone. Not just partisan issues, but cultural and societal obstacles. Particularly in this era of how connected the world is now, compared to say 75 years ago. The world has changed. America has changed. And you can run to the hills of West Virginia, Montana, or wherever (trailer parks in Florida) and try to ignore it, and spout off conspiracies about how so and so wants to take away freedoms, but at the end of the day, the melting pot that is America is deeply flawed. But the "answer" isn't insurrection based on conspiracy theories. Jon Schaffer got sucked in, still believes it all (at least from the last thing I read a while back), and frankly, he's lucky to be alive. However his sentencing turns out will be how it is. He's part of the problem and I wouldn't be surprised if the guy is not long for this world because of his actions.

Frankly, I hope Matt Barlow and his wife are doing okay. Obviously, he can't and shouldn't talk about Jon. But I am sure it weighs on them. It has to. Matt seems like a genuinely level-headed guy, and I absolutely respect his work in law enforcement (I'm determined to get pulled over by him one day). It's really nice to see the Iced Earth music live on through Ashes of Ares. I really hope Matt and Freddie embrace that catalog and use it as a springboard to make Ashes of Ares a more significant act moving forward in terms of live shows. If I saw a set that had a half dozen IE songs, and 10 or 11 AoA songs, I'd be all over that.

[Grappler]

That's how I feel.  Regardless of politics, breaking into a secure, federal building is wrong.  It is maddening to me to see a promising career and my favorite band and musician reduced to nothing over something like that.

As for Matt, one of the articles about how court process servers were trying to locate Jon mentioned how they were searching at an address in Delaware and there was no answer.  I figured that was someone knocking on Matt's door asking about Jon's whereabouts and his family doing what they can to protect Jon.
 My gut says that they're having to straddle the line between Jon being family and protecting them how they can against whatever feelings they have about how the day was an assault on the police brotherhood and/or the responsibilities of Matt being an officer and not breaking any laws in the process. 

I'd love to see that setlist in the US - it was heavy on the newest Ashes record, which is their best so far, and a good dose of Iced Earth

[Madman Shepherd]

Since this thread came back around, Jon is looking at possibly 3 years in jail followed by witness protection.

https://www.therepublic.com/2023/06/08/schaffer-seeks-a-sentencing-date-for-plea-bargain-in-jan-6-insurrection-case/

His plea deal includes an option for witness protection.  I can see him taking it, simply because he's been hiding out for a while, last suspected to be living in a trailer park in Florida.  His testimony was unsealed and used in the case against Stuart Rhodes, helping to convict him of seditious conspiracy. 

I was wondering if info he gave was used. Last I heard people were arguing about whether he was even associated with Stewart Rhodes. Obviously they're not too trustworthy and I don't know a lot about the Oath Keepers but I always wondered if Jon made himself out to be more important to the organization than he was.

Btw, does anybody know where to find all of his testimony?

[Grappler]

Since this thread came back around, Jon is looking at possibly 3 years in jail followed by witness protection.

https://www.therepublic.com/2023/06/08/schaffer-seeks-a-sentencing-date-for-plea-bargain-in-jan-6-insurrection-case/

His plea deal includes an option for witness protection.  I can see him taking it, simply because he's been hiding out for a while, last suspected to be living in a trailer park in Florida.  His testimony was unsealed and used in the case against Stuart Rhodes, helping to convict him of seditious conspiracy. 

I was wondering if info he gave was used. Last I heard people were arguing about whether he was even associated with Stewart Rhodes. Obviously they're not too trustworthy and I don't know a lot about the Oath Keepers but I always wondered if Jon made himself out to be more important to the organization than he was.

Btw, does anybody know where to find all of his testimony?

His testimony was sealed and it took a court order to unseal it to be used in the trial.  I never watched the Caldwell/Rhodes trial, but the info Jon provided helped to put those guys away.

I use this link for updates on his criminal court case, but it doesn't have specifics about testimony.  https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/59827948/united-states-v-schaffer/
He was also named in the civil case, where the US Government was suing members of the Proud Boys and Oathkeepers to be reimbursed for the financial costs of January 6th.  The civil case is where he was dodging the process servers and they couldn't locate him.

Jon said he was a "founding lifetime member."  At the time, people seemed to be confusing that with him being a founding member of the Oathkeepers.   I took it to mean that he was there from the start, but a "lifetime" member is someone who paid like $10,000 to be a member of the Oathkeepers for life, as opposed to paying yearly dues.  He may have been fairly close to the leadership, but I don't think he WAS leadership.

[MirrorMask]

He could have spent that money on an Iced Earth album.

[Grappler]

Burning Times from the second show of the tour in Thessaloniki.  Those Greeks are CRAZY!  I love the crowd in this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ejyLG1av5Y

[Zook]

I know age has a lot to do with it, but Matt's highs aren't as strong anymore, but I think he's also just been out of the game too long and needs to practice.

I can also see Jon being really upset about them playing IE tunes.

His newest cash grab of rereleases isn't even licensed through his Platinum Dragon Entertainment, but Rock of Angels records. I wonder if he sold the copyright to Something Wicked. Fuck, what an idiot.

[Grappler]

I know age has a lot to do with it, but Matt's highs aren't as strong anymore, but I think he's also just been out of the game too long and needs to practice.

I can also see Jon being really upset about them playing IE tunes.

His newest cash grab of rereleases isn't even licensed through his Platinum Dragon Entertainment, but Rock of Angels records. I wonder if he sold the copyright to Something Wicked. Fuck, what an idiot.

Ashes of Ares is on Rock of Angels records, so I'm sure Matt pointed him in that direction.  It's not like Jon can really afford to do all of this on his own like he was intending to prior to the pandemic, so having a label front the money for "new" product helps.  He still has Platinum Dragon - he sued someone for bootlegging products within the last few years.  He needs every penny he can get and bootleggers aren't helping him. 

As much as I love Iced Earth, Jon can't say jack shit about another band covering his music, and I think he'd be glad that Matt and Freddie were in Iced Earth at least.  Ripper has been playing When the Eagle Cries with his solo band for years.

[MirrorMask]

I can also see Jon being really upset about them playing IE tunes.

As much as I love Iced Earth, Jon can't say jack shit about another band covering his music, and I think he'd be glad that Matt and Freddie were in Iced Earth at least.  Ripper has been playing When the Eagle Cries with his solo band for years.

I agree, he lost the rights to have a say about it when he became a domestic terrorist.

[Grappler]

I can also see Jon being really upset about them playing IE tunes.

As much as I love Iced Earth, Jon can't say jack shit about another band covering his music, and I think he'd be glad that Matt and Freddie were in Iced Earth at least.  Ripper has been playing When the Eagle Cries with his solo band for years.

I agree, he lost the rights to have a say about it when he became a domestic terrorist.

I think Matt and Freddie are playing the songs now because Jon can't.  While Iced Earth was active, they didn't play those songs.  At least someone out there with ties to Iced Earth is keeping some of the music alive.

[Samsara]

Burning Times from the second show of the tour in Thessaloniki.  Those Greeks are CRAZY!  I love the crowd in this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ejyLG1av5Y

Bottom line - Ashes of Ares needs to recognize that they are sitting on a gold mine of a catalog. A slight rebrand of the band to take hold of that, and they will explode in a good way. Not sure Matt wants to go at it full time again, but with the right mgmt and booking, Ashes of Ares could easily vault up into the same bookings and venues that IE played on the last tour.

[Madman Shepherd]

Pretty sure Matt said in an interview that he is looking forward to retirement. He's got about 20 years in as a police officer and while I'm sure a lot of his desire to quit music came from wanting to do something good, let's not deny that for Americans, you don't get insurance without a stable job. Now that metal has picked up in popularity as opposed to when he quit and had to supplement his income working at Jon's family's restaurant in the off time, nd his kids are older, he's probably in a pretty good position to go at this full time again.

[ProfessorPeart]

Maybe a Pumpkins United kind of thing. Go on tour with Ripper and maybe Stu. Get Brent on drums, maybe James MacDonough on bass and a host of guitarists to chose from.

[MirrorMask]

Burning Times from the second show of the tour in Thessaloniki.  Those Greeks are CRAZY!  I love the crowd in this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ejyLG1av5Y

Bottom line - Ashes of Ares needs to recognize that they are sitting on a gold mine of a catalog. A slight rebrand of the band to take hold of that, and they will explode in a good way. Not sure Matt wants to go at it full time again, but with the right mgmt and booking, Ashes of Ares could easily vault up into the same bookings and venues that IE played on the last tour.

Pretty sure Matt said in an interview that he is looking forward to retirement. He's got about 20 years in as a police officer and while I'm sure a lot of his desire to quit music came from wanting to do something good, let's not deny that for Americans, you don't get insurance without a stable job. Now that metal has picked up in popularity as opposed to when he quit and had to supplement his income working at Jon's family's restaurant in the off time, nd his kids are older, he's probably in a pretty good position to go at this full time again.

You might be onto something here!

I agree that if he feels like so, Matt could and should continue to sing Iced Earth songs. There's enough good material in his albums to fill an entire set, of course the Stu album deserve praise but let's face it, Matt was the ultimate IE singer.

Also, RIP Demons & Wizards, it took Jon and Hansi 20 years to do a new album, they even made a tour, and that band died as well. Double shame, they could have done another tour with some of the new songs.

[ErHaO]

Since this thread came back around, Jon is looking at possibly 3 years in jail followed by witness protection.

https://www.therepublic.com/2023/06/08/schaffer-seeks-a-sentencing-date-for-plea-bargain-in-jan-6-insurrection-case/

A worthwhile testimony to make a deal for and witness protection? That confirms how deep in the guy was. Sad to see, but also entirely his own doing. 

I think some people underestimate the danger these type of terroristic/extremist movements pose to nations. I am glad the politicians, all of them, got away before the crowd reached them. It is one thing if a guy says they are messing with the wrong people and that there will be bloodshed, it is another thing when that same person actually invades the capitol. At some point you gotta believe they are not just talking shit and are there to do "something". That something likely being heinous in nature.

[Grappler]

Lots of clips are showing up online.  Matt doesn't sound very smooth on Dragon's Child and Freddie actually handles the chorus.  I wonder if that song just has some awkward melodies or it's a spot in his voice that he struggles with. 

Athens - full show:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJau9kZgBUI
It's fun to see the audience reactions to each Iced Earth song that they play.  The crowd's vocals are louder than the PA during Burning Times.

[Grappler]

Burning Times from the second show of the tour in Thessaloniki.  Those Greeks are CRAZY!  I love the crowd in this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ejyLG1av5Y

Bottom line - Ashes of Ares needs to recognize that they are sitting on a gold mine of a catalog. A slight rebrand of the band to take hold of that, and they will explode in a good way. Not sure Matt wants to go at it full time again, but with the right mgmt and booking, Ashes of Ares could easily vault up into the same bookings and venues that IE played on the last tour.

Definitely, and especially across Europe.  They could certainly do some shows in the US as well. 

Maybe a Pumpkins United kind of thing. Go on tour with Ripper and maybe Stu. Get Brent on drums, maybe James MacDonough on bass and a host of guitarists to chose from.

I don't see Matt stepping on Jon's toes like that.  Guest spots if a tour hit in each city?  Sure - they'd have Brent or Ripper or Jimmy come up for a song, but you wouldn't see a full band lineup of ex-Iced Earth guys going on tour without Jon.  I guess it depends on Jon taking witness protection or not - if he fully disappears from the scene, then something like that could be more likely, but I see something like Ashes playing some Iced Earth tunes to be more likely.

Also, RIP Demons & Wizards, it took Jon and Hansi 20 years to do a new album, they even made a tour, and that band died as well. Double shame, they could have done another tour with some of the new songs.

At a minimum, we were supposed to get a live album/DVD of the Demons show from Wacken, which would have been amazing, and they had another studio album contracted. 

[ErHaO]

Burning Times from the second show of the tour in Thessaloniki.  Those Greeks are CRAZY!  I love the crowd in this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ejyLG1av5Y

Bottom line - Ashes of Ares needs to recognize that they are sitting on a gold mine of a catalog. A slight rebrand of the band to take hold of that, and they will explode in a good way. Not sure Matt wants to go at it full time again, but with the right mgmt and booking, Ashes of Ares could easily vault up into the same bookings and venues that IE played on the last tour.

Definitely, and especially across Europe.  They could certainly do some shows in the US as well. 

Maybe a Pumpkins United kind of thing. Go on tour with Ripper and maybe Stu. Get Brent on drums, maybe James MacDonough on bass and a host of guitarists to chose from.

I don't see Matt stepping on Jon's toes like that.  Guest spots if a tour hit in each city?  Sure - they'd have Brent or Ripper or Jimmy come up for a song, but you wouldn't see a full band lineup of ex-Iced Earth guys going on tour without Jon.  I guess it depends on Jon taking witness protection or not - if he fully disappears from the scene, then something like that could be more likely, but I see something like Ashes playing some Iced Earth tunes to be more likely.

Also, RIP Demons & Wizards, it took Jon and Hansi 20 years to do a new album, they even made a tour, and that band died as well. Double shame, they could have done another tour with some of the new songs.

At a minimum, we were supposed to get a live album/DVD of the Demons show from Wacken, which would have been amazing, and they had another studio album contracted.

That was an amazing show, D&W at Wacken. Thankfully the proshot stream is already fantastic. But man, what could've been....

[Zook]

Maybe that's why Matt is growing his hair out again.

[Samsara]

What would people think if Ashes of Ares did an album of re-records of ICED EARTH material? Normally, I hate that idea. BUT, in this case, with IE done, because of Jon's stupidity, I kind of think it makes a lot of sense. Put 14 of those classic IE tunes on a new record, and then set up a big tour where they do a lot of them and AoA material together.

I am assuming the other musicians touring in Ashes of Ares are just touring personnel other than Matt and Freddie, right? If so, perhaps AoA does this ICED EARTH album idea with IE alumni.

[Adami]

What would people think if Ashes of Ares did an album of re-records of ICED EARTH material? Normally, I hate that idea. BUT, in this case, with IE done, because of Jon's stupidity, I kind of think it makes a lot of sense. Put 14 of those classic IE tunes on a new record, and then set up a big tour where they do a lot of them and AoA material together.

I am assuming the other musicians touring in Ashes of Ares are just touring personnel other than Matt and Freddie, right? If so, perhaps AoA does this ICED EARTH album idea with IE alumni.

Not sure what that would do. They wouldn't own the rights. It would just put more money into Jon's or whomever owns the rights pockets and their recordings won't be any better than the original.

I'm happy if they put out a good live album with a lot of IE songs though.

[Samsara]

Well, it DOES put money in the songwriters' hands (and Matt did have a handful of credits), which means that Jon profits. BUT...having studio tracks out there under the AoA banner also HELPS AoA build a following, considering it is fronted by IE's classic era singer and one of IE's bass players. And if you bring on other IE alumni, performing IE songs on a AoA album, it creates huge marketing buzz for AoA, which translates into interest from promoters in having AoA. Yes, Jon profits. he wrote most of those IE songs. But Matt, Freddie and AoA will reap many rewards for the kind of exposure re-recordings of IE material would bring them.

Trust me, in most situations, I hate this idea. But for this specific band and scenario, it works big time.

[Grappler]

Yay, more Iced Earth re-records!      How many more versions of Dante's Inferno do I need? 

I get your idea, but Adami is right.  They can't top Matt's original vocals from 25+ years ago and Jon's riffing.  I'd accept an EP, especially if they got Ripper and Stu to contribute - that seems the most likely and would generate a lot of PR, with the three former singers uniting.  Brent wouldn't go behind Jon's back, he seems loyal to him to the end.  Luke has moved on.  The Podcast in Stone group has a lot of ex members of the band from years past, but I don't know if they would get involved.  They all respect him, some still seem irritated with how they ended up leaving and/or not making money.  If they did participate, it would just end up turning into the Jon Schaffer relief fund with a bunch of old band members stumping for him. 

I think playing the songs live seems to be the best option and with three full albums and 4 of IE's classic albums with Matt, they could definitely do a full live album.  And invite Ripper and Stu for guest spots! 

[Samsara]

I'd be all for the live album of IE songs. Adami isn't "right," really. IE is a profitable BRAND. It will sell. And Ashes of Ares, in some form or another, really needs to capitalize on it to help their own band and brand flourish. It's the perfect time.

I hear ya on the studio re-recording. As I said, normally, I'm against it. And I could absolutely get behind doing a live album of IE songs. But AoA HAS TO take advantage of the void left by no IE. It will increase their profile in a huge way.

[Grappler]

But AoA HAS TO take advantage of the void left by no IE. It will increase their profile in a huge way.

I definitely agree.  It's just that Iced Earth and re-recording material became a bit of a joke, and there's not too much that Ashes can do to make it sound different.  I would like to hear some of the songs re-imagined in the Ashes style, where Freddie can inject more death-metal into the riffing.  But a straight cover?  That doesn't have much use outside of creating a product to tour off of - and it all hinges on Matt putting more time into the road.