The Official Iced Earth Thread v. "Tastes Like Treason!"

[Corlis]

The remix is probably the best it's going to get, and much improved over the horrible original. The drums kinda ruin the original release. The drummer for Burnt Offerings was certainly better than the drummer from the debut, but still sloppy as all hell. I was curious to hear what the re-recorded albums would have sounded like, but they wouldn't come close to the originals, and Stu, as great as a singer he is, would have likely further hurt the songs. Plus, we have further proof in Dante's Inferno 2011 and Overture of The Wicked that completely rerecording old songs is bad and Jon should feel bad.

I know that DI 2011 was rushed to get the click for the keyboard tracks on tour, and they'd have likely done it more justice, but I doubt it would have been much better. And Stu just can't hold a candle to Matt. Stu has incredible range, but lacks the presence and bombast of Matt.

If Jon ever does remix the original BO for the anniversary, he'd still have to do some trickery with the drums if he wants it to sound good. The debut drummer was very limited, but as far as I can tell listening all these years, no work was ever done to the drums. There's a chance the drums on BO were completely rerecorded for the remix. That's how bad they were.

I think the original Burnt Offerings drums are ok. They do sound a bit... weird! Not bad, just unnatural & different. The toms in particular sound otherworldly and dark, like clicking rocks together. Perfectly fits the album's dark & hellish atmosphere. For me, the drums make that album memorable in a good way, for others, it's the total opposite.

This is why I generally dislike the idea of remixes. There is a magic in the original recording which creates a nostalgia which is a huge part of what makes someone like an album. You change one thing, now you lost something else...

imo:

The Remix has way better guitar & bass tone, better drums (except toms), better bass & vocals mix. But it's sterile & generic sounding mix (sounds like most other bands' mix).

The original has a better album cover and a more convincing / darker atmosphere. Unique sounding mix which stands out from other bands.

[Zook]

Jon's been releasing anything to pay his legal bills. The latest is hot sauce. The Facebook comments have been funny. "hotter than bear mace" "tastes like treason"

He just released a new live album as well. Bang Your Head 2016. It sounds ok, but Stu ruins it. Such a wasted opportunity he was. Unfortunately he's still singing like that for other bands. Not all the time but he hasn't dropped it.

[Grappler]

Most of the merchandise was limited-run things from prior to 2021 that are now being re-released.  I have no ambition to support his legal defense, but plenty of fans still do. 

I listened to Bang Your Head and it's alright - it's nice to have live versions of the songs from Plagues, and Stu's version of a couple songs from Dark Saga, but it's not really a necessary release when you have Alive in Athens and Ancient Kourion. 

[TAC]

None of their releases are necessary if you have Alive In Athens.

[wolfking]

Most of the merchandise was limited-run things from prior to 2021 that are now being re-released.  I have no ambition to support his legal defense, but plenty of fans still do. 

I listened to Bang Your Head and it's alright - it's nice to have live versions of the songs from Plagues, and Stu's version of a couple songs from Dark Saga, but it's not really a necessary release when you have Alive in Athens and Ancient Kourion.

Man, I hated this one, sounded awful IMO.

None of their releases are necessary if you have Alive In Athens.

Truth.

[Zook]

I still like plenty of the studio tracks better than on AiA.

Ancient Kourion was garbage.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

I still like plenty of the studio tracks better than on AiA.

I agree.  It's one of the best live albums I've heard, but it doesn't replace the studio versions, and while it has a lot of songs, it doesn't have all of them.  And obviously it doesn't have anything from Horror Show, which is arguably their best album. 

[WilliamMunny]

I still like plenty of the studio tracks better than on AiA.

I agree.  It's one of the best live albums I've heard, but it doesn't replace the studio versions, and while it has a lot of songs, it doesn't have all of them.  And obviously it doesn't have anything from Horror Show, which is arguably their best album.

Man, Horror Show is sooooo good!

[wolfking]

Hmmm.....yes Horror Show is definitely up there.

[The Realm]

Good to see some love for Horror Show. I didn't think it had many fans? Always really enjoyed that album.

[NoseofNicko]

Another fan here. Horror Show is my favorite IE album.

[wolfking]

Good to see some love for Horror Show. I didn't think it had many fans? Always really enjoyed that album.

I thought it was one of the most liked amongst fans.  I rarely hear negative things about it.

[Zook]

I listened to Dracula the other day. Still amazing. Horror Show is awesome, but there are a few weaker tunes. Although Imhotep finally clicked a few years ago. I always thought it was kinda boring. Dragons Child and Frankenstein are the other two that don't get as much play from me. Oh and Ghost of Freedom. I played the shit out of this album back in the day though.

[BelichickFan]

I think Horror Show is below average compared to the Barlow CDs that came before it. In fact I like all the Barlow predecessors better. But I still like it, Dracula especially. But the early Barlow CDs are just that good.

[The Realm]

Yeah, I like Horror Show and think it is a great album but I have always through that the previous Barlow albums were more highly regarded which is why I was a little surprised at the love for Horror Show here. Don't get me wrong through, I think it is awesome it has so many fans on the forum. Personally I love Horror Show and the previous Barlow albums pretty much equally. All have some awesome highs and a couple of weaker tracks.

[Grappler]

Freddie and Matt are doing a little Ashes of Ares podcast with 20 minute chats about the band and music industry.  The last 2 episodes feature some friends of theirs - Andrew Peters (ex-Iced Earth, current Queensryche soundman) and Ripper Owens. 

The episode with Ripper was fun as he and Matt talked about show they approach singing another singer's songs, or each other's songs. 

https://www.youtube.com/user/ashesofaresofficial/videos

[LithoJazzoSphere]

The latest Ashes of Ares album is really good, and the track "Monster's Lament" with Ripper guesting is easily my favorite. 

[ProfessorPeart]

The latest Ashes of Ares album is really good, and the track "Monster's Lament" with Ripper guesting is easily my favorite.

Yes, the new Ashes album is very good. The one before was a disappointment but they bounced back with this one.

Also, funny thought I had, but Zook should change the thread title to The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Insurrection or something like that. Funny, but also equally not funny. It's a weird topic.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Yeah, I don't really enjoy talking about it online, it's impossible to have any nuance to it. 

[ProfessorPeart]

Ha! Looks like he heard me. Like I said before, funny but also not. I like it.

[Zook]

I had a morbid thought. Do you think Jon's friend who Watching Over Me was based on was a conspiracy theorist like him? I wonder if Jon thinks he was guiding him to commit treason.

Speaking of Something Wicked, I was mixing up the track order again, and although jarring at first because I've heard them in the same order for almost 20 years, I think I finally put them in an order that makes more sense than the heavy, light format. I'm sure I've posted this before and maybe it's the exact same order, but I couldn't find it. Maybe it was further back than I thought. It doesn't matter, I'm bored and there's nothing else to talk about with this band. Unless we do a favorite song from each album list which we probably did already too.

Burning Times
Stand Alone
Disciples of the Lie
Melancholy (The Holy Martyr)
Consequences
My Own Savior
Watching Over Me
Reaping Stone
1776
Blessed Are You
Prophecy
Birth of the Wicked
The Coming Curse

With this order we have the first 3 tracks heavy, and keeping in tradition with most metal albums, the first ballad at track 4.

Consequences isn't really a ballad, but it has some heaviness to it, so we aren't hit with back to back sappiness.  All the ballads have heavy elements, really. We go back to heavy again, and then our second true ballad, Watching Over Me. This song could be track 4, but I like that the first 4 songs have a common theme.

Then it's the mid tempo Black Sabbath love letter which is plenty heavy and I don't think will bore the audience at this point in the album, especially with that mid section.

After that, the album plays as it originally did.

I like the original track order just fine. It never even occured to me that the songs are heavy, light, until it was pointed out. Like I said, I'm bored. I did this with The Glorious Burden too, incorporating Waterloo into the main tracklist, and removing Hollow Man because it's garbage. I had to do some editing and fade outs, because some songs crossfade into others, so I used both the tracks from the Japanese release and US.

Declaration Day
When the Eagle Cries
The Reckoning
Greenface
Valley Forge
Waterloo
Attila
Red Baron Blue Max
The Devil to Pay
Hold at All Costs
High Water Mark

[MirrorMask]

Interesting food for thought! yeah, I could see that SW tracklist work.

[Skeever]

I still like plenty of the studio tracks better than on AiA.

Ancient Kourion was garbage.

From what I understand, Alive in Athens is basically a studio album anyhow.

[WilliamMunny]

I still like plenty of the studio tracks better than on AiA.

Ancient Kourion was garbage.

From what I understand, Alive in Athens is basically a studio album anyhow.

Care to elaborate? I've always held the record in high esteem—are you saying it was heavily overdubbed?

[Skeever]

I still like plenty of the studio tracks better than on AiA.

Ancient Kourion was garbage.

From what I understand, Alive in Athens is basically a studio album anyhow.

Care to elaborate? I've always held the record in high esteem—are you saying it was heavily overdubbed?

Yes, though this was only obvious when they released the DVD.
Personally - I don't care. Many of these songs best versions are the Alive in Athens versions, dubbing or not.

[Adami]

So the DVD stuff is a bit misleading. From what I’ve read, they recorded two shows and that on the DVD, you might get the video from one and the audio from another.

I’ve read lots of people say that it’s basically a studio album but I’ve seen no evidence or statements from anyone involved. Whatever the album is, it’s amazing.

[Zook]

So the DVD stuff is a bit misleading. From what I’ve read, they recorded two shows and that on the DVD, you might get the video from one and the audio from another.

I’ve read lots of people say that it’s basically a studio album but I’ve seen no evidence or statements from anyone involved. Whatever the album is, it’s amazing.

Exactly this. There's plenty of mistakes on it too. I can't remember if it was ever asked on Podcast in Stone, but maybe I'll listen back through to Schaffer's and the other band members interviews to see if that topic was brought up. I do remember him saying they played too fast and that's why Ancient Kurion is so slow/album tempo.

[wolfking]

AIA is the ultimate IE album.

[Zook]

AIA is the ultimate IE album.

It's definitely a best of album.

[Zook]

I decided to give Dante's Inferno 2011 another listen. It's been a few years. It still sucks. I knew it wasn't going to suddenly click or anything, but maybe it aged a little better. Nah, every decision was bad. Yeah, it was just thrown together to get a backing keyboard track for the live shows, but all those weird and awful changes made it to the live performance. Jon said he forgot to include the chants during the 4th and 5th circles, but they didn't do them live which makes me think he's full of shit. Even the drums are a mess, especially during the 4th and 5th circles, but it's pretty terrible during the 1st and 2nd. Then there's Stu... He's not too bad here, but it's still IE Stu, so he's not great either. I thought he was finally starting to come into his own on Incorruptible. Thanks Jon.

Not to toot my own horn, but I'm really proud of the Sounds of Hell version of Dante's Inferno I made. It might sound cheesy with the sound effects, but to me it adds to the experience. It doesn't need them though, but it's fun to listen to. Ultimately, the 2002 remix and remaster is the definitive version. 27 years old too. Crazy.

[Adami]

I was so excited for the 2011 version. I loved Stu from Into Eternity and thought they'd go huge and epic for this new version.


But I was almost immediately let down. The ABANDON ALL HOPE part is pretty cool with the growls, but that's it. The drumming is bad, the mixing is bad, the changes are bad. It's just all such poor decision making

[LithoJazzoSphere]

he's full of shit...Thanks Jon.

That about summarizes it, and is as far as we need to go here. 

IE Stu

This unfortunately isn't helpful. 

[wolfking]

I remember listening to that version once, laughing my ass off and never listening to it again.

[ProfessorPeart]

I always thought Stu's vocal delivery was a tad odd during his time in IE. I literally never heard of him before that. I picked up Annihilator's Metal re-release with Stu on vocals and was blown away by his range and depth. Same reason why I thought Richard Christy was a crappy drummer, it had nothing to do with the talent and everything to do with how Jon made the talent perform.

[LithoJazzoSphere]

Huh, Christy felt like one of if not the most impressive drummer in IE, even just from Horror Show.