The Official Iced Earth Thread v. "Tastes Like Treason!"

[Grappler]

From what he said on some of the Facebook live chats, 2020 was a year off, after 2019 was spent with Demons & Wizards.  He was going to go on his desert hiking vacation to prep his mind for Iced Earth songwriting ( ) when the pandemic hit.  Then he flipped his shit over the pandemic, not being able to travel, economic shut downs and conspiracies.  I watched a few of his Facebook live chats this past summer and he went on some big rants over wearing a mask and the pandemic being a government conspiracy for control over its citizens before getting into stuff about the kickstarter book and answering fan questions. 

His general response to Iced Earth activity last year was "well, we're an international band and I can't fly Luke or Stu into the US to write/record" because of the pandemic.  I think the pandemic triggered and he equated it to tyranny, where governments were telling people what they can and can't do, where they can and can't go, etc.  So the band was just on standstill until the world righted itself.  Not sure why he couldn't just sit and write music without having to go to the desert, but whatever. 

I get hopeful and think that the band will ride it out, then I think that his career is just completely fucked between whatever legal problems he has to face, jail time, cancel culture and any after effects restricting his travel.  He threw away 30 years of his life over this. 

[Ben_Jamin]

From what he said on some of the Facebook live chats, 2020 was a year off, after 2019 was spent with Demons & Wizards.  He was going to go on his desert hiking vacation to prep his mind for Iced Earth songwriting ( ) when the pandemic hit.  Then he flipped his shit over the pandemic, not being able to travel, economic shut downs and conspiracies.  I watched a few of his Facebook live chats this past summer and he went on some big rants over wearing a mask and the pandemic being a government conspiracy for control over its citizens before getting into stuff about the kickstarter book and answering fan questions. 

His general response to Iced Earth activity last year was "well, we're an international band and I can't fly Luke or Stu into the US to write/record" because of the pandemic.  I think the pandemic triggered and he equated it to tyranny, where governments were telling people what they can and can't do, where they can and can't go, etc.  So the band was just on standstill until the world righted itself.  Not sure why he couldn't just sit and write music without having to go to the desert, but whatever. 

I get hopeful and think that the band will ride it out, then I think that his career is just completely fucked between whatever legal problems he has to face, jail time, cancel culture and any after effects restricting his travel.  He threw away 30 years of his life over this.

Sometimes, the muse hits and sometimes it doesn't.

He seems like the musician that needs to clear his mind before making an album, and if taking a hike helps, then why not. For some people, creating music comes naturally, for others, it doesn't and they have other priorities or things in life that take over them being able to create the music, or go into the space to create music.

Not everyone has the knowledge or know all to record onto a laptop and make music that way. I am sure some of the older musicians have someone there to help them get that stuff set-up and connected. Kudos to those whom know how to set that up alone.

[Mister Gold]

Apparently Stu's removed Iced Earth from his job section on his Facebook page and is listing his career as a "Freelance Band Singer/Vocalist."

So yeah, my guess is that Stu's initial comment supporting Jon was before he fully realized the scope of what actually happened at the Capitol. Either that or his manager sat him down and explained how much trouble Jon is actually in here.

[ProfessorPeart]

Honestly, any of those guys staying in the band would probably do more harm than good to their career, assuming the band even exists anymore. Jon could end up blacklisted by promoters and who knows what else.

It's like watching a car crash in slow motion.

[Mister Gold]

Honestly, any of those guys staying in the band would probably do more harm than good to their career, assuming the band even exists anymore. Jon could end up blacklisted by promoters and who knows what else.

It's like watching a car crash in slow motion.

Yeah, I'm particularly curious how this is going to play out for Jake in particular, since he's also a member of Demons & Wizards- and Jon produced the upcoming Witherfall album. That in particular could result in some major ramifications for Witherfall.

Are they going to delay the album so they have time to hire someone else to remix the album? If they do, what about the three singles they've already released off the album? Do they take down the original versions of those songs and replace them?

[0u81234]

Honestly, any of those guys staying in the band would probably do more harm than good to their career, assuming the band even exists anymore. Jon could end up blacklisted by promoters and who knows what else.

It's like watching a car crash in slow motion.

Yeah, I'm particularly curious how this is going to play out for Jake in particular, since he's also a member of Demons & Wizards- and Jon produced the upcoming Witherfall album. That in particular could result in some major ramifications for Witherfall.

Are they going to delay the album so they have time to hire someone else to remix the album? If they do, what about the three singles they've already released off the album? Do they take down the original versions of those songs and replace them?

I am just baffled why any of the other members are even getting thrown info the fire by this. It’s not like Hansi or Jake were there with Schaffer at the Capitol. They are business partners. I feel bad for these guys. I highly doubt Witherfall or Century Media  is going to pay for a re-record of COA. The fact that people won’t listen to it because Jake worked with Schaffer just seems unfair. IMHO

[Mister Gold]

Honestly, any of those guys staying in the band would probably do more harm than good to their career, assuming the band even exists anymore. Jon could end up blacklisted by promoters and who knows what else.

It's like watching a car crash in slow motion.

Yeah, I'm particularly curious how this is going to play out for Jake in particular, since he's also a member of Demons & Wizards- and Jon produced the upcoming Witherfall album. That in particular could result in some major ramifications for Witherfall.

Are they going to delay the album so they have time to hire someone else to remix the album? If they do, what about the three singles they've already released off the album? Do they take down the original versions of those songs and replace them?

I am just baffled why any of the other members are even getting thrown info the fire by this. It’s not like Hansi or Jake were there with Schaffer at the Capitol. They are business partners. I feel bad for these guys. I highly doubt Witherfall or Century Media  is going to pay for a re-record of COA. The fact that people won’t listen to it because Jake worked with Schaffer just seems unfair. IMHO

To be fair, I'm only speculating here. That said, I agree that I don't see the band re-recording the album. That'd cost far too much money.

However I'm not entirely sure if the band and the record label might decide to have the album remixed to minimize Jon's involvement on the album now, seeing as how his role as the producer was initially a big part of the promotion for Curse of Autumn up to now.

[0u81234]

Honestly, any of those guys staying in the band would probably do more harm than good to their career, assuming the band even exists anymore. Jon could end up blacklisted by promoters and who knows what else.

It's like watching a car crash in slow motion.

Yeah, I'm particularly curious how this is going to play out for Jake in particular, since he's also a member of Demons & Wizards- and Jon produced the upcoming Witherfall album. That in particular could result in some major ramifications for Witherfall.

Are they going to delay the album so they have time to hire someone else to remix the album? If they do, what about the three singles they've already released off the album? Do they take down the original versions of those songs and replace them?

I am just baffled why any of the other members are even getting thrown info the fire by this. It’s not like Hansi or Jake were there with Schaffer at the Capitol. They are business partners. I feel bad for these guys. I highly doubt Witherfall or Century Media  is going to pay for a re-record of COA. The fact that people won’t listen to it because Jake worked with Schaffer just seems unfair. IMHO

To be fair, I'm only speculating here. That said, I agree that I don't see the band re-recording the album. That'd cost far too much money.

However I'm not entirely sure if the and the record label might decide to have the album remixed to minimize Jon's involvement on the album now, seeing as how his role as the producer was initially a big part of the promotion for Curse of Autumn up to now.

Wouldn’t surprise me if they distance themselves from Schaffer. I would imagine everyone behind the scenes of anything regarding this IE, Witherfall D&W CM etc etc  is probably super pissed off and trying to navigate the situation because to them it’s a business. This is not good for business. I just hope more people can see that side and not clump every one Schaffer has encountered as a supporter. It’s like if your drunk uncle during the holidays starts spewing stupid philosophies. It doesn’t mean everybody at the table or in the family agrees. I wish more people understood this.

[MirrorMask]

If this is the potential end of Iced Earth, it's gonna be sad.

Some thinking aloud (well, typing what I'm thinking  )... I wonder how much bigger the band could have become, and in retrospect which were the elements that damaged the band.

Up until Horror Show, Iced Earth were on the rise. Finally found the perfect singer with a godlike voice, a series of critically acclaimed albums, a more "lighter" and power metal oriented sound that took away a bit of the thrash of the earlier records and made them more accessible, nothing could stop them in becoming one of the very top bands of the genre.

Then 9/11 happened.... and Matt Barlow felt the need to change his life, dunno what happened with Jon and if that was the first big event that sent him on his path. Of course there's no recovering from losing Matt Barlow, and yet Ripper was the best replacement he could possibly find back then. Would Matt Barlow's presence make a difference for The Glorious Burden?

And then of course, came his magnus opus, or what he wanted it to be. The album to end all albums, his masterpiece, the Something Wicked album, which eventually became two. He set out to write his Scenes from a Memory..... but in the end he wrote The Astonishing (just an example - I personally love the album, but again, it's not SFAM), and the clusterfuck of changing singers midway through the project didn't help either.

By then, the musical landscape had changed, the situation had become what we all know (no more money made from records, all incomes basically come from touring), and Matt left AGAIN and for good, and Jon finally settled with Stu opening a new and more stable phase of Iced Earth (I love Dystopia, mildly enjoy Babylon and quite like Incorruptible), that however has to face the reality of the current musical landscape, with them being just another mid-to-big band.

I believe Jon had the intention of making Iced Earth the next Iron Maiden. Or at least, as big as Iron Maiden and even that is an hyperbole - more realistically, I expect that for the longest time, his ultimate goal and vision was of making Iced Earth so big that - to give a pratical example - they could have headlined festivals that Maiden themselves headlined. Big as Avenged Sevenfold ad their peak, big as Ghost who were playing big venues in their last tour.

Could this have ever happened under different circumstances? what went wrong? I think the most important defining moments in Iced Earth's path to world domination were:

- Matt Barlow leaving
- The Something Wicked album(s) not being the absolute masterpiece Jon desperately wanted it to be

Horror Show was released in 2001, Matt Barlow left in early 2003. By the time Jon came out of the turmoil with all the Ripper / Matt comes back / whops nevermind, he's gone again, it was 2011 (the year of Dystopia). 10 years "wasted", kinda like Maiden's popularity waned in the '90s, but there was no reunion with Bruce dickinson to pull out of the hat. And of course, by 2011 it was cleary that nobody was buying records anymore and that income would have had to come from touring and merchandise.

So... do you think that with just some more fortunate circumstances Iced Earth could have been, in relative terms, "as big as Iron Maiden" (or at the very least, a band that would fill sports stadium all over Europe, kinda like Nightwish is doing now), or the creative plateau would have been reached anyway and Jon had no longer utter masterpieces left in him, regardless of who was the singer?

[Zook]

I think the biggest detriment was the revolving door line-up. Blind Guardian have had one change in 30 years, and they're much more successful for it. People like to follow the members of a band, and if the members are constantly changing, there's nothing to hold on to besides the music. One album Bob is ripping solos, the next Bill is, and then Jim, and Frank. In the end, no one cares. Then you have people with particular tastes in singers, and if the singer isn't to their liking, they might drop off completely. Iron Maiden have had a mostly a consistant line up. It helps.

[ozzy554]

At least this means Stu might find a new project to really showcase what he can do. The dude has a ridiculous range and I feel like Jon really underutilized him by sticking with the usual Iced Earth formula.

[BelichickFan]

I'm sad that this is probably the end of the band.  I don't give a damn what he did - I enjoy music for the music, I can generally separate everything else.  I have little interest, or likely agreement, with the views of the artists that I listen to.  I do find it ironic that his last released music might be Christmas songs.

[Ben_Jamin]

Honestly, any of those guys staying in the band would probably do more harm than good to their career, assuming the band even exists anymore. Jon could end up blacklisted by promoters and who knows what else.

It's like watching a car crash in slow motion.

Yeah, I'm particularly curious how this is going to play out for Jake in particular, since he's also a member of Demons & Wizards- and Jon produced the upcoming Witherfall album. That in particular could result in some major ramifications for Witherfall.

Are they going to delay the album so they have time to hire someone else to remix the album? If they do, what about the three singles they've already released off the album? Do they take down the original versions of those songs and replace them?

I am just baffled why any of the other members are even getting thrown info the fire by this. It’s not like Hansi or Jake were there with Schaffer at the Capitol. They are business partners. I feel bad for these guys. I highly doubt Witherfall or Century Media  is going to pay for a re-record of COA. The fact that people won’t listen to it because Jake worked with Schaffer just seems unfair. IMHO

To be fair, I'm only speculating here. That said, I agree that I don't see the band re-recording the album. That'd cost far too much money.

However I'm not entirely sure if the and the record label might decide to have the album remixed to minimize Jon's involvement on the album now, seeing as how his role as the producer was initially a big part of the promotion for Curse of Autumn up to now.

Wouldn’t surprise me if they distance themselves from Schaffer. I would imagine everyone behind the scenes of anything regarding this IE, Witherfall D&W CM etc etc  is probably super pissed off and trying to navigate the situation because to them it’s a business. This is not good for business. I just hope more people can see that side and not clump every one Schaffer has encountered as a supporter. It’s like if your drunk uncle during the holidays starts spewing stupid philosophies. It doesn’t mean everybody at the table or in the family agrees. I wish more people understood this.

This exactly.

They're seeing it with their business eyes, and are just fist pounding their desks saying "Dammit, Schaffer", as they scramble to figure out what to do, and have to wait and see what the legalities are with Schaffer. It all depends too, on how much Iced Earth, and his other projects, he was involved with in the business aspect. If Jon owns a lot of Iced Earth, Then they're shit out of luck until he gets his stuff in check, that is if the contracts and all that are messy.

I am just glad I went to see them, although I mainly went to see Floor with Revamp.

Also...This situation brings the "Boiling Point" lyrics to a new light. And Days of Rage...

[Grappler]

The Podcast in Stone group is awesome when it comes to seeing past members of the band talk about their experiences.   But this situation makes it so eye opening to see so many of them defending Jon.   

I get that "you" knew him years ago and grew up with him.  That doesn't make it right to storm into to a secured, federal building while our nations lawmakers are at work, the top three individuals in the line of succession are in attendance, and the majority of the crowd are attempting a coup.

[WilliamMunny]

If this is the potential end of Iced Earth, it's gonna be sad.

Some thinking aloud (well, typing what I'm thinking  )... I wonder how much bigger the band could have become, and in retrospect which were the elements that damaged the band.

Up until Horror Show, Iced Earth were on the rise. Finally found the perfect singer with a godlike voice, a series of critically acclaimed albums, a more "lighter" and power metal oriented sound that took away a bit of the thrash of the earlier records and made them more accessible, nothing could stop them in becoming one of the very top bands of the genre.

Then 9/11 happened.... and Matt Barlow felt the need to change his life, dunno what happened with Jon and if that was the first big event that sent him on his path. Of course there's no recovering from losing Matt Barlow, and yet Ripper was the best replacement he could possibly find back then. Would Matt Barlow's presence make a difference for The Glorious Burden?

And then of course, came his magnus opus, or what he wanted it to be. The album to end all albums, his masterpiece, the Something Wicked album, which eventually became two. He set out to write his Scenes from a Memory..... but in the end he wrote The Astonishing (just an example - I personally love the album, but again, it's not SFAM), and the clusterfuck of changing singers midway through the project didn't help either.

By then, the musical landscape had changed, the situation had become what we all know (no more money made from records, all incomes basically come from touring), and Matt left AGAIN and for good, and Jon finally settled with Stu opening a new and more stable phase of Iced Earth (I love Dystopia, mildly enjoy Babylon and quite like Incorruptible), that however has to face the reality of the current musical landscape, with them being just another mid-to-big band.

I believe Jon had the intention of making Iced Earth the next Iron Maiden. Or at least, as big as Iron Maiden and even that is an hyperbole - more realistically, I expect that for the longest time, his ultimate goal and vision was of making Iced Earth so big that - to give a pratical example - they could have headlined festivals that Maiden themselves headlined. Big as Avenged Sevenfold ad their peak, big as Ghost who were playing big venues in their last tour.

Could this have ever happened under different circumstances? what went wrong? I think the most important defining moments in Iced Earth's path to world domination were:

- Matt Barlow leaving
- The Something Wicked album(s) not being the absolute masterpiece Jon desperately wanted it to be

Horror Show was released in 2001, Matt Barlow left in early 2003. By the time Jon came out of the turmoil with all the Ripper / Matt comes back / whops nevermind, he's gone again, it was 2011 (the year of Dystopia). 10 years "wasted", kinda like Maiden's popularity waned in the '90s, but there was no reunion with Bruce dickinson to pull out of the hat. And of course, by 2011 it was cleary that nobody was buying records anymore and that income would have had to come from touring and merchandise.

So... do you think that with just some more fortunate circumstances Iced Earth could have been, in relative terms, "as big as Iron Maiden" (or at the very least, a band that would fill sports stadium all over Europe, kinda like Nightwish is doing now), or the creative plateau would have been reached anyway and Jon had no longer utter masterpieces left in him, regardless of who was the singer?

So many good points above!

My thoughts:

-'Horror Show' was a creative peak (in my opinion)

-Barlow leaving was a huge blow, BUT I'm not sure that if he stayed the course, they would've been 'Maiden' big...either way, they would've remained A-listers in the genre.

-I like Ripper (hell, I'm from Cleveland...I'm pretty sure I've shared the stage with him at some point), and I like Stu...but for me, Barlow IS the voice. And while I've checked out everything they've done since Burnt Offerings (that's how far back I go), the albums where Matt doesn't sing often fail to sustain my interest.

-I agree that there's probably more to Matt leaving back in 2001/2002 than we even know, and I've never bought the 'his heart wasn't in the Glorious Burden' excuse that Jon peddled at the time.

-Lastly, as both a fan and a US citizen, I am just so bummed by everything that happened this past week.

[Zook]

Night of the Stormrider didnt catch your interest. Greely is no Barlow but that album is a thrash masterpiece.

[ProfessorPeart]

Now Stu is getting it. I missed his early post where he seems to have backed Jon and what he was doing. Now he is dropping the ban-hammer as people call him on his possible hypocrisy.

https://www.metalsucks.net/2021/01/10/iced-earths-stu-block-is-banning-fans-for-asking-his-opinion-on-pro-trump-riots/

[emtee]

I own one album. SWCtW and I found it underwhelming. I spun it many times and then relegated it to the shelf permanently. Perhaps I should try some of the earlier albums recommended here.

[WilliamMunny]

Night of the Stormrider didnt catch your interest. Greely is no Barlow but that album is a thrash masterpiece.

It absolutely is.

I meant to say Burnt Offerings was my introduction. Of course, I checked out the self titled and NOTS, but kinda like Fates and Alder, Barlow was my guy and to his records I compare all the others.

[CrimsonE]

I heard about this earlier today, and while I'm shocked, at the same time I can say that I wasn't really that surprised.

I do feel sorry for his bandmates, as this is pretty much the end of IE in any meaningful form.  It's a shame since IE has had a pretty stable lineup for the last decade or so, which of course is pretty unusual.  But unless Schaffer cuts a deal, he will almost certainly do serious jail time.  Furthermore, as others have pointed out, it's hard to imagine mainstream record companies wanting anything to do with him, let alone most reputable concert promoters, and if you can't put out records or tour, you are dead as a professional musician . 

[Madman Shepherd]

https://youtu.be/rrXs1RPrINU

Anybody in need of a good cringe? If his opening rant isn't bad enough, he goes over the top and aggressively waves the dont tread on me flag to the beat of the music like hes in high school color guard.

[MirrorMask]

That, and coupled with the brilliant point made by CrimsonE (which major label or promoter would want their business associated to an insurrection?), makes me think that if Jon comes out of this relatively unscathed (I mean with the law, let's say he doesn't get 10 years in prison), all he will probably be able to do is to put together a version of Sons of Liberty with people that don't mind to work with him and be an obscure political band that plays rallies or whatever.

We have to see how it all plays out but, regardless of how, when and if Jon will face the law, and how dire the consequences will be, I think CrimsonE is right, Iced Earth as we knew it is over.

[aurorablind]

I guess he was ready 12 years ago:


Sons of Liberty - Tree Of Liberty

[Music / Lyrics : Jon Schaffer]

It's time to act quickly
Face what's ahead, Revolution's at hand
You must see
I pray it's with ballots
If they push us too far, bullets will rain....

We ll bring down the tyrants
Forcing their hand, bringing them down to their knees....

The clash of free and tyranny will soak the Earth
With the blood of patriots and tyrants...

 

[Zook]

It's crazy that the same guy who wrote most of Iced Earth's lyrics wrote that cringey ass shit. Not to say Iced Earth hasn't had the occasional stinker *cough*Hollowmandaysofragedividedevour*cough* but Sons of Liberty is on a while other level. I've never liked any of that shit.

[MirrorMask]

What hurts the most, in a sense, is that there is method to his madness.

Have you seen the video posted some messages ago where he identifies himself saying he's Jon Schaffer from Indiana? he's calm and polite to the person interviewing him, he's expressing normally his point of view and he's also quite articulate with it. He's not a lunatic spewing almost nonsensical slogans. He's very lucidly and rationally explaining what he thinks, hardly a "crazy extremist". It gives a lot of food for thought that someone who is clearly not ignorant can come to believe alternate versions of reality to the point that he takes place in a violent insurrection (which is the whole point, if he was spotted with the crowds outside of the Capitol but then he would just stay the hell away from the riots and the attacks, we'd have already forgotten about by now, "Eh, Schaffer's gonna Schaffer, we knew his ideas, he has a right to protest like everybody else, let's listen to The Coming Curse and pretend this didn't happen").

[Grappler]

Stu clarifies his screenshot and social media drama.  My respect for him increased and he's slyly distancing himself from Jon without naming him, by lumping him in with the other protesters. 

First I want to thank everyone for the amazing support you have shown. Unfortunately It has come to my attention in recent days about a screenshot someone made. There were some very obsessive hateful people posting the screenshot that I did have to remove from my social media. I do want to extend my apologies for the poor way I worded two Facebook posts on January the 6th. I’m human and I make mistakes. My wording was absolutely misunderstood and not properly thought out on my part and I know people and media can interpret things differently. At that moment I saw a historical thing happening that perhaps would cause divide amongst people everywhere so I sent love out to everyone as well. I quickly took the post down after I realized that the post I put up with good intentions to encourage discussion about what was happening at that moment was severely misinterpreted by some. This was all happening before I found out about the horrible line that was crossed that day by protesters. I also carelessly misread a comment someone posted on my official Facebook page and replied incorrectly and for that I am sorry. I was in the heat of the moment. In the post, the commenter said: “Are you condemning what happened today Stu?” I replied: “and where in my statement would you get that impression?” In the craziness of responding to so many comments, some very hateful in nature which were also coming at me in rapid fire, I read the word as “condoning” which I DO NOT!! I see that this inaccurate misinterpreted screenshot has been shared on various social media pages and I want to go on record to say this AGAIN:
I absolutely DO NOT condone nor do I support ANY acts of violence or anything else that ANY protester or rioter was involved in on January 6th at the US Capitol building.
If you follow me, you know I am generally a man of Peace, Kitties and Music. I do believe in peaceful protest and expressing your grievances , I believe in questioning authority when it’s appropriate, but I also believe that it should be done in a peaceful, respectful and intellectual manner and within the confines of the law. Again I apologize for any confusion. That’s it that’s all.  I have been and will be taking a social media break and this is the only time I will ever address this inaccurate misinterpreted screenshot.  Much Love and Stay Strong. ❤️
Stu Block ❤️

I just wish Jon would get arrested soon so fans can start to move past this.  The longer it goes without any word from him or about him just seems to keep everyone on edge.  Sad that I even have to say that about one of my favorite musicians. 

[WilliamMunny]

Man, Stu is all class. I will definitely be checking out whatever his next project is.

[MirrorMask]

Well, I'd say he wrote it brilliantly.

Maybe he got legal / social networking advice about how to spin it. Maybe he's 100% sincere about it. Still, he addressed the problem head on, and he clearly said it - "I'm human and I make mistakes", just for that alone he deserves some respect.

I feel for him, he's between the hammer and the anvil - his bandmate and de facto employer commited domestic terrorism and now he has to navigate himself in muddy waters while being a public figure, with people out there waiting to dissect every word he writes. It must not be easy and I don't know what I would do in his shoes. I hope he will not get dragged down in the mud by Schaffer's actions.

About Jon - where the hell he is? he's laying low at home? did he made it out of DC? is he sleeping in abandoned cars like he did in Florida when he was young? who knows?

[Zook]

To be fair, I read it as condoning as well.

Is it possible that Jon has already been arrested? Has anyone checked the mugshot websites?

[Madman Shepherd]

Well, I'd say he wrote it brilliantly.

Maybe he got legal / social networking advice about how to spin it. Maybe he's 100% sincere about it. Still, he addressed the problem head on, and he clearly said it - "I'm human and I make mistakes", just for that alone he deserves some respect.

I feel for him, he's between the hammer and the anvil - his bandmate and de facto employer commited domestic terrorism and now he has to navigate himself in muddy waters while being a public figure, with people out there waiting to dissect every word he writes. It must not be easy and I don't know what I would do in his shoes. I hope he will not get dragged down in the mud by Schaffer's actions.

About Jon - where the hell he is? he's laying low at home? did he made it out of DC? is he sleeping in abandoned cars like he did in Florida when he was young? who knows?

Jon slept in abandoned cars when he was young? Where'd you hear that?

Oh, every single interview he's ever done.

[Grappler]

About Jon - where the hell he is? he's laying low at home? did he made it out of DC? is he sleeping in abandoned cars like he did in Florida when he was young? who knows?

His friends in the Podcast group have said that they text him daily to check in on him and they haven't heard from him at all - they're not sure if that's good or bad.  He's either on the lam/in hiding, or was arrested. 

The FBI still has his picture on their "Most Wanted" page, though I'd imagine they've had thousands of tips received that identify him.  I suspect that he hasn't been arrested yet.  That would probably make national news. 

[Zook]

Well, I'd say he wrote it brilliantly.

Maybe he got legal / social networking advice about how to spin it. Maybe he's 100% sincere about it. Still, he addressed the problem head on, and he clearly said it - "I'm human and I make mistakes", just for that alone he deserves some respect.

I feel for him, he's between the hammer and the anvil - his bandmate and de facto employer commited domestic terrorism and now he has to navigate himself in muddy waters while being a public figure, with people out there waiting to dissect every word he writes. It must not be easy and I don't know what I would do in his shoes. I hope he will not get dragged down in the mud by Schaffer's actions.

About Jon - where the hell he is? he's laying low at home? did he made it out of DC? is he sleeping in abandoned cars like he did in Florida when he was young? who knows?

Jon slept in abandoned cars when he was young? Where'd you hear that?

Oh, every single interview he's ever done.

I thought it was houses.

[MirrorMask]

"A typical day would start with waking up in his car, which was serving as his bed at the time".

Copied from the Dark Saga boxset booklet (yes, I am / was a big enough fun to purchase the boxset and I will never regret it, the remixes are badass).

So he was sleeping in the car, but it was his own.

[Zook]

I'm gonna have to listen to that Horror Show interview CD again. I could have sworn he said houses. Maybe it was both at one point.

I wish I had the money for that box set. I certainly didn't and don't need it, but it's really cool. I only have the NOTS individual CD from it.

[Stadler]

What hurts the most, in a sense, is that there is method to his madness.

Have you seen the video posted some messages ago where he identifies himself saying he's Jon Schaffer from Indiana? he's calm and polite to the person interviewing him, he's expressing normally his point of view and he's also quite articulate with it. He's not a lunatic spewing almost nonsensical slogans. He's very lucidly and rationally explaining what he thinks, hardly a "crazy extremist". It gives a lot of food for thought that someone who is clearly not ignorant can come to believe alternate versions of reality to the point that he takes place in a violent insurrection (which is the whole point, if he was spotted with the crowds outside of the Capitol but then he would just stay the hell away from the riots and the attacks, we'd have already forgotten about by now, "Eh, Schaffer's gonna Schaffer, we knew his ideas, he has a right to protest like everybody else, let's listen to The Coming Curse and pretend this didn't happen").

DELETED.  Mirror Mask, can I copy your post to P/R and respond?