Poll

Who's Iced Earth's best Singer?

Gene Adam
1 (0.8%)
John Greely
0 (0%)
Matt Barlow
85 (66.4%)
Tim "Ripper" Owens
15 (11.7%)
Stu Block
15 (11.7%)
Comedy Option: Jon Schaffer
12 (9.4%)

Total Members Voted: 128

Author Topic: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. "Tastes Like Treason!"  (Read 310676 times)

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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2520 on: January 08, 2019, 08:30:12 PM »
Just downloaded the EP from Amazon. I always get physical copies but it's surprisingly expensive unless you buy it from amazon which says it will ship in a month or two.  Weird.

Anyway, love the EP and Gene sounds awesome.  Lyrics are pretty bad but they were teens when they wrote it. It's weird though because their old men now. If you're going to rerecord, maybe switch some things up?

Anyway, I'm unfamiliar with the original songs.  I'm assuming they're on youtube but are they available for purchase anywhere?

I'm not sure why the band is selling it for $15.  I got it for less than $9 from Amazon, and it arrived a week after it's release.  The CD has some great artwork and all of the band members got to write some liner notes, including Greg Seymour, who didn't play on the disc, as he reconnected with Jon after the recording was finished). 

The original demo songs are out on youtube, but the quality is pretty poor.  Hence the reason for re-recording these tunes.  Jon did alter some things - the tempos and arrangements are tighter, and they wrote a new chorus to Dracula.  Just search for the Purgatory Horror Show demo and you'll find most of the tunes.

Ah crap. I thought the CD might be bare bones because there really isn't a lot of info about it. It's still available for relatively cheap from amazon just backordered and I wanted to hear it in high quality now.

I don't get what Shaffer's obsession with rerecording things is. Obviously, this stuff makes sense but now he wanted to rerecord stuff from the albums that already sound pretty good.  Weird.

Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2521 on: January 08, 2019, 08:51:47 PM »
If I remember correctly, Jon's motive for re-recording the albums is to get financial rights. I don't think they make a dime from the records now and they want to re-record them so they can get royalties. Def Leppard did the same thing recently with Hysteria while in a royalty dispute with their label.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2522 on: January 09, 2019, 01:09:32 AM »
Thanks for the recap Grappler! I too assumed that a new D&W album would be out by the time of the shows, but after all it's better maybe to bring attention to the  band again playing songs from the, ehm, "classic" albums and then introduce new music.
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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2523 on: January 09, 2019, 08:53:43 AM »
If I remember correctly, Jon's motive for re-recording the albums is to get financial rights. I don't think they make a dime from the records now and they want to re-record them so they can get royalties. Def Leppard did the same thing recently with Hysteria while in a royalty dispute with their label.

Correct.  Century Media retains the rights to the catalog and I believe Jon might have alluded to the fact that they ALWAYS will.  So the way around it is to re-record some albums.  Night of the Stormrider is generally their most popular album worldwide and it seems like he wants to improve on a few things like arrangements in a new recording.  It will also test the waters to see if there is fan and/or industry demand for them to continue.  He's said that it costs about $6K in airfare and/or hotels for the band to get together, so despite having Independence Hall studios, the band still has to spend some money if he wants to fly them in to record albums.

Jon's very much in financial mode.  He talked about different merch designs and stated that he would rather do limited designs for merch, rather than pay for 1,000 of something like pins and have them sit in a warehouse, losing money until they eventually all sell.  He seems to want to build up the official merch store, instead of offloading things to JSR Direct (or other fullfillment houses) for a loss in money.  He also said that some merch will be exclusive, like the Legacy series shirts.  They might create a different legacy design for a tour, but it wouldn't be the same as the design originally offered online.

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2524 on: January 09, 2019, 08:54:52 AM »
Do they make that much off royalties though?

re-recording the albums is going to cost tens of thousands of dollars. Each.

Do they seriously make that much money in royalties? It's Iced Earth. Big fans will buy them, but beyond that?
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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2525 on: January 09, 2019, 09:42:43 AM »
Do they make that much off royalties though?

re-recording the albums is going to cost tens of thousands of dollars. Each.

Do they seriously make that much money in royalties? It's Iced Earth. Big fans will buy them, but beyond that?

Hence Jon's hesitation to re-record everything.  Start with the most popular record and gauge the interest.  Assuming they do this 100% on their own, then he can recoup the money quicker than usual - the band would get 100% of the money from any sales. 

If he limits it to a digital release, then the expense is pretty much just the airfare to fly band members/producers in and then the production of the recording.  If they want a physical release, then they have to pay for artwork, pay for manufacturing, distribution and so on.  Or he may engage another label contract if the independent route is too costly.  The the band's profits are less.

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2526 on: January 09, 2019, 10:04:22 AM »
Just recording this stuff is expensive as hell.

I assume.

Maybe Jon has his own studio and does all the work himself for free? I dunno. But recording at a pro studio and having a pro mixer alone is tens of thousands of dollars per album.
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Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2527 on: January 09, 2019, 01:35:29 PM »
I'm a big fan and I'm not sure I would buy them. My reason is the 2 disc Days Of Purgatory release gave me the ability to remake the first 2 albums with Matt doing vocals on all but 1 song off of each record, I think.

As much I like Stu, I'm pretty sure that on his best day he can't touch Matt on his worst.
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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2528 on: January 09, 2019, 01:53:29 PM »
Oh yea. If this were back in the Matt days and they re-recorded the first two albums? Heartbeat purchase.

But with Stu? And most of the albums with the Matt being redone?


Hell naw. I respect Jon's desire to own the rights, but not THAT much.
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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2529 on: January 10, 2019, 03:37:13 PM »
I get that he wants to get the rights back but the only thing that really makes sense to rerecord would be that one Something Wicked album with Ripper and use Matt so it can at least be consistent.  I still wouldn't buy it but it would at least make sense.

Offline Samsara

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2530 on: January 10, 2019, 03:45:37 PM »
Personally, I would prefer Barlow come in and sing everything he's not on, EXCEPT the Stu albums. This would clearly define two separate eras of Iced Earth. I came in late to Iced Earth. And while the first guy was OK, and Ripper was OK, Barlow is THE BARLOW, and given that he already did Days of Purgatory, I don't see the problem in him re-recording the early albums entirely again. And I like Ripper, but I think Matt has a more commanding voice.

As for costs, they are at Jon's studio, so all the overhead would be whatever they already have. The costs would be associated with the personnel involved engineer, mixer, mastering), the cost of having the band flown in and paying for their food and lodging (which can get expensive), and then ultimately, you then have to see how you want to release everything. Would not make sense for digital-only. Do it all, or don't do it, in terms of physical and digital. My guess is, if they do it, you do it under your own label, and sign a distribution deal with a major label. This way everything is under Jon's control.

But whether I purchase would really depend on who is singing. I have the catalog, so if it is just re-doing the records with the same singers, then no. If it's re-recording the first couple, plus the Ripper stuff, with Matt, I'll buy them.

If it is Stu (who I personally really enjoy) doing all of it, then absolutely not. I love his era, but Barlow should never be recorded over. Ever.
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Online Adami

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2531 on: January 10, 2019, 03:48:03 PM »
I would hate to have Ripper erased from IE the way he was from JP.

Even though I didn't like that Civil War album much, Ripper was amazing on it. He has always been incredible on the records, even if the writing is bad.


Personally? I'd love to see Ripper and Barlow being dual singers in the band. I know someone put together a cut from one of the songs that Ripper did that Barlow re-did where it was half/half and it was amazing.

Just get rid of Stu and let him find a band that knows how to use his amazing voice properly.
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Offline wolfking

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2532 on: January 10, 2019, 03:52:01 PM »
Ripper >>> Stu

I would hate to have Ripper erased from IE the way he was from JP.

Even though I didn't like that Civil War album much, Ripper was amazing on it. He has always been incredible on the records, even if the writing is bad.


Personally? I'd love to see Ripper and Barlow being dual singers in the band. I know someone put together a cut from one of the songs that Ripper did that Barlow re-did where it was half/half and it was amazing.

Just get rid of Stu and let him find a band that knows how to use his amazing voice properly.

Sounds like a good plan to me.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2533 on: January 10, 2019, 03:58:52 PM »
I wonder what are Jon's real thoughts on all the revolving door of singers. I don't know if it would be polite to ask him, and I can imagine he couldn't answer straight in an interview, but I'd love to ask him if, knowing then what he knows now, if it was worth to bring Matt back just for several years and one (lackluster) album, and if it wasn't better maybe to find Stu, or whoever could have been IE's final singer, back when Matt left. I don't know what Stu was doing back in 2003 and he probably was too young, but after all the pain of losing Barlow, seeing him come back and then just say "well, I guess it's time to leave for good after all"... meh, left a soure taste in my mouth.

I lived it like a breakup - love of my (IE) life goes, I accept the replacement, love comes back and I have to erase all of my acceptance and grieving over the breakup, and then "she" leaves again for good.... d'oh.
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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2534 on: January 10, 2019, 04:04:51 PM »
I wonder what are Jon's real thoughts on all the revolving door of singers. I don't know if it would be polite to ask him, and I can imagine he couldn't answer straight in an interview, but I'd love to ask him if, knowing then what he knows now, if it was worth to bring Matt back just for several years and one (lackluster) album, and if it wasn't better maybe to find Stu, or whoever could have been IE's final singer, back when Matt left. I don't know what Stu was doing back in 2003 and he probably was too young, but after all the pain of losing Barlow, seeing him come back and then just say "well, I guess it's time to leave for good after all"... meh, left a soure taste in my mouth.

I lived it like a breakup - love of my (IE) life goes, I accept the replacement, love comes back and I have to erase all of my acceptance and grieving over the breakup, and then "she" leaves again for good.... d'oh.

This is largely why I'm not a big Iced Earth fan anymore (and the fact that the Something Wicked albums kinda sucked). I'm tired of keeping up with Jon's justifications of, well, everything. 

-The original singers were crap
-Ripper is always the voice I heard
-Now we can do the something Wicked concept
-Ripper wasn't cut out for the Something Wicked concept
-We're doing limited dates now that Barlow's back
-We can't do limited dates so we gotta get a new singer

Not to mention a 180 on his political views and his recent praise for the confederacy, with the caveat that, "I'm against slavery but..."



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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2535 on: January 10, 2019, 04:41:56 PM »
Unfortunate that the Something Wicked albums (the two) get so much hate. I think there's a good amount of lame filler, but a lot of those songs are really great, I thought.
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Offline Zook

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2536 on: January 10, 2019, 06:12:17 PM »
I'm curious what Jon plans to do with Stormrider as far as new arrangements. That album is perfect as is. Well, almost. Most of the Athens versions are superior, not just because of Barlow, but the energy. Like it or not, Jon, the faster tempo helped the songs A LOT. If it's anything like the re-recorded Something Wicked Trilogy, it's gonna suck. I liked some of the ideas on Prophecy, but palm muting the riffs neutered the song. I also can't see myself enjoying Stu. He's gonna do his tough guy Barlow voice that only Barlow can do, and he's gonna make Greely sound better by comparison. John Greely wasn't bad. He could hit the highs and had a nice menacing harshness. He was good on that album. You just can't compare to Matt though.

I wish we could have gotten a live version of Stygian with Ripper, with the Purgatory vocal arrangements. They recently played the song with Stu, but he sang it with the original melodies, and it just didn't sound right. I hope Jon doesn't change it back for this re-record. Those kinds of changes are good. Shit like the Wicked Trilogy, not so much.

I agree about the Something Wicked albums. I haven't listened to them in forever, but I always really liked Framing Armageddon. Crucible is a good EP.


Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2537 on: January 10, 2019, 06:35:48 PM »
Unfortunate that the Something Wicked albums (the two) get so much hate. I think there's a good amount of lame filler, but a lot of those songs are really great, I thought.

There was some decent stuff for sure but overall the story didn't interest me.  I was thrown off by the native sounding drumming and all that, lasers, etc.  I just didn't feel like it fit with the original Something Wicked song but by then Jon was making me lose my interest anyway so I was a little biased towards not giving it a chance.

I only ever saw Iced Earth with Ripper but that show was amazing. Hearing ripper hit those ungodly high notes in Declaration Day and hearing him on the old songs, that was awesome. I was pumped for the next album but I was just let down and lost total interest since then. The rerecording of the original 3 songs was pretty decent but as much as I love Ripper, I gotta give the edge to the Barlow version.

I mentioned earlier but I picked up some of the Stu albums at Amoeba Records in LA, used and cheaper, and I was surprised at how good they were. I doubt I'll ever regain my full fandom though.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2538 on: January 11, 2019, 04:45:00 PM »
Stu's version of Dantes Inferno was enough for me.
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Offline The Walrus

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2539 on: January 12, 2019, 08:58:19 AM »
The first time I went 'WTF Iced Earth??' was the Ten Thousand Strong music video.
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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2540 on: January 12, 2019, 10:27:08 AM »
The first time I went 'WTF Iced Earth??' was the Ten Thousand Strong music video.

It was like that because Jon thought he was going to put out a graphic novel of the Something Wicked story. Of course that fell through like a lot of the things he's wanted to do.

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2541 on: January 28, 2019, 08:02:17 AM »
New artwork for the Enter the Realm re-release.  I love how they incorporated all of the elements from the original art....and the picture of Jon that they snuck in on the left is badass.





Offline Samsara

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2542 on: January 28, 2019, 08:25:54 AM »
That's really cool.
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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2543 on: January 29, 2019, 10:16:16 AM »
How is this one different from the Dark Genesis rerelease?

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2544 on: January 29, 2019, 10:31:13 AM »
How is this one different from the Dark Genesis rerelease?

I believe that it is newly remastered from the original source.  Probably by Zeuss.  I'm sure once they officially put out a press release, it will have more info.

The Dark Genesis version was remastered by Jim Morris in 2001.

Offline Samsara

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2545 on: January 29, 2019, 11:48:53 AM »
The only thing I'd be remotely interested in is having Barlow come in and do The Glorious Burden. Or whatever demos of that with him on vocals that they deem suitable for release. I have Dark Genesis, and I just don't see the point in re-buying records. The new art is BAD ASS, but just a fresh remaster just doesn't do it. There has to be more.

I love Iced Earth (thanks Grapp), but Jon has to put more into it to have me re-buy stuff at this point.
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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2546 on: January 29, 2019, 12:04:38 PM »
The only thing I'd be remotely interested in is having Barlow come in and do The Glorious Burden. Or whatever demos of that with him on vocals that they deem suitable for release. I have Dark Genesis, and I just don't see the point in re-buying records. The new art is BAD ASS, but just a fresh remaster just doesn't do it. There has to be more.

I love Iced Earth (thanks Grapp), but Jon has to put more into it to have me re-buy stuff at this point.

Jon's a vinyl guy.  So this release is primarily to have Enter the Realm available on vinyl with new artwork.  I don't really need it since I have the Dark Genesis box.  Assuming there is a CD release too, then I'll get that to be a completest...it's the one band I try to do that with.

Offline Samsara

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2547 on: January 29, 2019, 02:43:17 PM »
I could see that for the vinyl guy, yeah. I am as well, but with select bands.
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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2548 on: February 06, 2019, 05:25:03 AM »
Freddy basically said in his Podcast in Stone interview that he left the band because he got tired of babysitting the other guys when they were being drunken douchebags.

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2549 on: February 06, 2019, 06:12:00 AM »
That was a great interview and Freddie was pretty honest about it without pointing fingers at specific people or going into too much detail.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2550 on: February 06, 2019, 06:23:26 AM »
Of course he's gonna write his own history in favorable light, but I always had the honest impression that Jon was the most driven, hard working guy of them all and so went through many line-up changes because he couldn't find people with his level of determination and professionalism.
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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2551 on: February 06, 2019, 06:35:19 AM »
Of course he's gonna write his own history in favorable light, but I always had the honest impression that Jon was the most driven, hard working guy of them all and so went through many line-up changes because he couldn't find people with his level of determination and professionalism.

True - if you're not up to his standards, you're out of the band - that's happened a number of times, whether Jon has fired someone (like Matt in 2002/2003) or whether that member eventually quit and later said Jon's too hard to work for. 

I believe Freddie - the Dystopia tour was massive and that's a lot of time for the band and crew to be on a bus together around the world.  He did a European leg and a US leg of the tour.  Freddie wasn't going to throw anyone under the bus, but he did come out and say "this is why I quit and this is how I quit by approaching Jon in the lobby of a hotel in Australia and not mincing words with him about why I was quitting."  Every single night he would be the last one to bed, making sure that the party animals were safe - the one night he didn't do that, something happened to someone and he felt guilty.  The band's management even stepped in at one point to try and ensure that the problems would be handled, but they kept on occurring. 

Offline TAC

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2552 on: February 06, 2019, 06:39:39 AM »
Sorry. Who is Freddie?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2553 on: February 06, 2019, 11:15:07 AM »
Sorry. Who is Freddie?

Freddie Vidales - played bass from 2008 to 2012 and is now the guitarist/songwriter for Ashes of Ares.

Offline TAC

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Re: The Official Iced Earth Thread v. Enter The Realm 30th Anniversary
« Reply #2554 on: February 06, 2019, 11:15:37 AM »
OK. Thank you.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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