The Official Iced Earth Thread v. "Tastes Like Treason!"

[jjrock88]

There is no question Matt is the voice of Iced Earth, but I thought Ripper did an excellent job with his two albums.  Especially Glorious Burden, which has some amazing tunes.

I bought Dystopia and thought it was solid, but not enough for me to buy the follow-up.

[Tomislav95]

I'm big Matt fan as well but I heard Plague many times and saw them on that tour and Stu was/is amazing. Him trying to sounds like Matt bothers me, too but what you gonna do? Plagues is actually one of my favorite IE albums.

[wolfking]

I've always shared Zook's thoughts on Stu and I pretty much still agree with him here.  We've had some great bonding moments in regards to this topic in the past.  Plagues was alright but still would have been so much more with Matt or even Tim.  Tim got hard done by and was great in the band.  Both albums he did were fantastic. 

I'm not going to listen to a bootleg of the new song, I'll wait but IMO I don't think Stu brings anything to the band really.

[Zook]

I've always shared Zook's thoughts on Stu and I pretty much still agree with him here.  We've had some great bonding moments in regards to this topic in the past.  Plagues was alright but still would have been so much more with Matt or even Tim.  Tim got hard done by and was great in the band.  Both albums he did were fantastic. 

I'm not going to listen to a bootleg of the new song, I'll wait but IMO I don't think Stu brings anything to the band really.

The album name has been changed to Incorruptible. I'm sure some of you are happy about that.

[Adami]

Of all the things that worry me about the new album, the name was.....one of them, but it wasn't terribly high on my list.

[Zook]

How high is Stu "I sing with food in my mouth" Block?

[Adami]

How high is Stu "I sing with food in my mouth" Block?

Number two!

Bland and uninspired writing is number one and blah musicianship is 3

[Zook]

As long as I get a few good tunes I'll be happy. Even Dystopia had some good stuff on it, and Plagues was 95% great!

[Adami]

As long as I get a few good tunes I'll be happy. Even Dystopia had some good stuff on it, and Plagues was 95% great!

We're going to disagree about plagues. Couldn't stand that album at all.

Also didn't care much for dystopia. Though Days of Rage was great.

[wolfking]

Bland new album title.  I'd rather The Judas Goat.

[Zook]

So I gave the Something Wicked albums a listen after a long time not doing so aside from a few songs. Framing Armageddon still holds up, but Crucible of Man got worse. I still hold the same criticisms of it, mainly that it's an uninspired and unfinished album. I understand why Jon keeps the songs out of the set. What happened? He said he wrote all the music before booting Ripper, so why is FA so much more inspired than CoM? And then the story itself by the end makes no sense. The Setians' intent is to wipe out humanity as an act of revenge so they create a god who can do it, the god accepts his fate, and is fully on board with destroying mankind, but then suddenly changes his mind, and is all like "nah, you guys just be on your best behavior and all's good." Ripper could not have saved this album, and I really can't hear him singing any of these songs. Of course Matt wrote some of the lyrics, so if he also wrote the vocal melodies, they'd be much different if Ripper was still in the band.

These songs are good:

In Sacred Flames (amazing intro)
Behold the Wicked Child
The Revealing (if it was finished)
A Gift or a Curse?
I Walk Alone
Sacrificial Kingdoms
Come What May

[Adami]

Yea, Framing Armageddon is really good, and I mostly like Crucible, but your criticism of the story is definitely correct. It's a terribly weak story and really shouldn't have gone beyond that initial three song run.

I think each album has songs I'd take out, but I'd take out less from Framing, and every time the title track comes on shuffle I have to blast and headbang to the ending.

[Zook]

That's definitely one of Ripper's most bad ass moments.

Also, people call Mancini a robot, but compared to Brent of Crucible, the Genie is the most organic sounding drummer ever.

[MirrorMask]

I agree about the criticisms of the albums (FA good, Crucible very weak) and about the storyline. It should have been Jon's magnum opus, his Scenes or Astonishing, and we got a collection of very forgettable songs.

The storyline bummed me as well, the original trilogy was as perfect as it gets in metal, and The Coming Curse is one of the best metal songs ever. The whole two album Set Abominae plans to destroy mankind, as late as the penultimate song, Divide and Devour, he's there all "I'm so gonna kick your ass" and then he just goes "Nah, whatever".

Come What May is such a beautiful song that soften the blows of the storyline ending bad (which was reprised again in some form in later albums... looks to me the equivalent of resurrecting an already killed character in a TV series for higher ratings), it's a nice swan song for Barlow and the whole ending section where he goes insanely high has me in worshipping mode. But still, I expected much more from these albums.

I hope the new one will be good... back in the day I was a HUGE Iced Earth fan, they were one of my favorite bands and when Barlow left (the first time) I was devasted. The three hour show for the Horror Show tour is still one of the best concerts I've ever been.

I didn't mind Ripper, I liked Dystopia as well and I've seen them on that tour (when they played Dante's Inferno) and I really enjoyed it, then Plagues of Babylon came out (it was good but not mindblowing), I missed the chance to see them live and then for whatever reason my interest for them just faded away. I've barely listen to Iced Earth in recent years, I hope the new album will be so good that it will send me back in full IE mode!

[wolfking]

I agree, FA is top 3 IE for me, but Crucible is just awful, could be their worst album.

[jjrock88]

Crucible was definitely a disappointment. I do really like I Walk Alone, that's a great tune

[Samsara]

The album name has been changed to Incorruptible. I'm sure some of you are happy about that.

Sounds like a Disturbed record title.

[Zook]

The album name has been changed to Incorruptible. I'm sure some of you are happy about that.

Sounds like a Disturbed record title.

First thing I thought.

Not much new I can talk about as a disgruntled Iced Earth fan, so I'm going to post this bootleg from 2002, because it's awesome, and a nice time capsule from better days-AH:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwKpBUviSsQ&t=3812s

[MirrorMask]

Gave a spin again to Plagues of Babylon.

Stu is a great singer but there are too many times when he just forces too much certain aggressive styles of singing. Second half of the album (the non conceptual one) is great, Chtulu and Peacemaker are great stand alone songs. The title track could have been better, but at least the intro and the build up is quite cool.

[Adami]

A few songs from Glorious Burden and Framing Armageddon came on today, and man did Ripper really put his heart into those performances.

I think that's one thing I feel is missing in IE since Barlow left (again), the heart and true passion. Just don't feel it anymore from any of them.

[Zook]

Jon really brought out the best in Ripper, and live you could tell he was having fun, but that also has to do with him loving to perform on stage.

It's hard to connect with a band when so many line up changes occur. Troy was capable, but he didn't have the chops (imo) that Larry did, and I don't think we'll ever have a better lead player in Iced Earth than Randy. We'll see what this new guy can do, but he wasn't even there for the writing process of the new album. I think our dislike of Stu's voice also clouds our judgement a bit. Jon's too concerned with having a Barlow clone or Stu's too concerned with sounding like a tough guy metal singer. There are times when live, Stu's normal singing voice bleeds through (The Ripper songs), and I'm like there you go, do that more, but then his Barlow takes over, and he sounds silly again. I don't think Stu's going anywhere any time soon, unless it's out of his control. Jon likes him too much. I have nothing against Stu personally, I just don't like the way he sings for Iced Earth. I'd rather have Richard Christy back on drums, and James Macdonough on bass. The perfect sound for Iced Earth though was on Something Wicked This Way Comes.

[jjrock88]

Zook, you are probably the biggest Iced Earth fan on this forum.

Who would you ideally like to have singing for the band right now?  Anybody out there that you can think of?

[Adami]

Jon really brought out the best in Ripper, and live you could tell he was having fun, but that also has to do with him loving to perform on stage.

It's hard to connect with a band when so many line up changes occur. Troy was capable, but he didn't have the chops (imo) that Larry did, and I don't think we'll ever have a better lead player in Iced Earth than Randy. We'll see what this new guy can do, but he wasn't even there for the writing process of the new album. I think our dislike of Stu's voice also clouds our judgement a bit. Jon's too concerned with having a Barlow clone or Stu's too concerned with sounding like a tough guy metal singer. There are times when live, Stu's normal singing voice bleeds through (The Ripper songs), and I'm like there you go, do that more, but then his Barlow takes over, and he sounds silly again. I don't think Stu's going anywhere any time soon, unless it's out of his control. Jon likes him too much. I have nothing against Stu personally, I just don't like the way he sings for Iced Earth. I'd rather have Richard Christy back on drums, and James Macdonough on bass. The perfect sound for Iced Earth though was on Something Wicked This Way Comes.

But I'm not just basing it off of Stu. I just don't feel any of that energy or inspiration anymore. They're just doing the IE thing. I just feel like he doesn't have much new to say.

[Adami]

Zook, you are probably the biggest Iced Earth fan on this forum.

Who would you ideally like to have singing for the band right now?  Anybody out there that you can think of?

I'm not Zook (though I often write his name on my underwear) but i'm a pretty big IE fan too. Honestly, Stu Block is one of the most talented singers in the damn genre. I would LOVE for Stu Block to sing for the band...............as Stu Block. If he just sang in his normal range and normal voice, it'd be a huge massive improvement.

[Zook]

Zook, you are probably the biggest Iced Earth fan on this forum.

Who would you ideally like to have singing for the band right now?  Anybody out there that you can think of?

Well, in a perfect world, Matt Barlow, but realistically, I'm with Adami. If Stu Block ditched the Barlow impression, and added a bit of grit to his clean Into Eternity voice, he'd sound killer. One does not need to sound like Barlow to sing Iced Earth... Except me when I'm singing along. I can't help it. Honestly though, I can't really think of anyone outside of past and present members of the band that could pull off the vocals for Iced Earth. Russell Allen is a beast, but could he sing Angels Holocaust? Dracula? He still has the chops, but there are plenty of Iced Earth songs that require some seriously ball clenching. I don't want a singer with a noticeable accent while singing. I don't know if the singer from Innerwish can hit high notes, but he has a natural, non forced deeper voice. Robb Graves of Lorenguard was mimicking Barlow anyway in his former band Winterfell, but I could only take him in small doses. I think Stu just needs to take the food out of his mouth, and just sing in his natural voice. I know that isn't going to happen so it is what it is. Even when he's trying to get the crowd to sing along to the music, he does the faux Barlow thing. I don't know, maybe he's like Ripper, and can't sing in a low voice. There's a video of Jack live with Ripper on vocals, and he attempts the Barlow voice and doesn't sound good at all. Rob Rock is pretty good.

Jon really brought out the best in Ripper, and live you could tell he was having fun, but that also has to do with him loving to perform on stage.

It's hard to connect with a band when so many line up changes occur. Troy was capable, but he didn't have the chops (imo) that Larry did, and I don't think we'll ever have a better lead player in Iced Earth than Randy. We'll see what this new guy can do, but he wasn't even there for the writing process of the new album. I think our dislike of Stu's voice also clouds our judgement a bit. Jon's too concerned with having a Barlow clone or Stu's too concerned with sounding like a tough guy metal singer. There are times when live, Stu's normal singing voice bleeds through (The Ripper songs), and I'm like there you go, do that more, but then his Barlow takes over, and he sounds silly again. I don't think Stu's going anywhere any time soon, unless it's out of his control. Jon likes him too much. I have nothing against Stu personally, I just don't like the way he sings for Iced Earth. I'd rather have Richard Christy back on drums, and James Macdonough on bass. The perfect sound for Iced Earth though was on Something Wicked This Way Comes.

But I'm not just basing it off of Stu. I just don't feel any of that energy or inspiration anymore. They're just doing the IE thing. I just feel like he doesn't have much new to say.

I hear ya, but he's been at it 30 years. Dream Theater's line up has been mostly static, but they're aren't exactly pumping out masterpieces anymore. After 30 years, I'd imagine coming up with riffs, and song ideas can be quite difficult, especially on your own. Hell, Jon started recycling riffs way early in his career. I believe he still has something left to say, but he needs a steady line up, and to let them actually come up with ideas. He's so worried about his "vision" that he's gotten a bit stale.

[Luoto]

If Stu Block ditched the Barlow impression, and added a bit of grit to his clean Into Eternity voice, he'd sound killer.

I think he was fine on Dystopia in this regard, and it could well be Jon who is producing his voice to be more Barlow-like. On Dystopia there's a lot of distinguishable high falsettos for example, like on the title track and Dark City.

[Zook]

If Stu Block ditched the Barlow impression, and added a bit of grit to his clean Into Eternity voice, he'd sound killer.

I think he was fine on Dystopia in this regard, and it could well be Jon who is producing his voice to be more Barlow-like. On Dystopia there's a lot of distinguishable high falsettos for example, like on the title track and Dark City.

For the most part, I didn't mind him on Dystopia. He sounded pretty good on Plagues too, although a bit more Barlowy. It's his live singing that I don't like. Songs that Barlow didn't even sing on, he does the voice.

You know what sucks? They never played Travel in Stygian while Ripper was in the band.

[Adami]

If Stu Block ditched the Barlow impression, and added a bit of grit to his clean Into Eternity voice, he'd sound killer.

I think he was fine on Dystopia in this regard, and it could well be Jon who is producing his voice to be more Barlow-like. On Dystopia there's a lot of distinguishable high falsettos for example, like on the title track and Dark City.

I don't think he sounds bad, he just sounds goofy and silly and I can't take it seriously.

And I 100% blame Jon. I assume most people do.

I'm hoping Stu quits and finds a band to properly sing in.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

He already quit the band he sang properly in.

#notbitter

[Zook]

Those two songs he sang with them 4 years ago were NOT WELL.

[Adami]

Those two songs he sang with them 4 years ago were NOT WELL.

Yea, Into Eternity's writing had gone down hill really quickly.

Honestly I'm not sure if I prefer Stu in IE or IE more. Hmmm.

[Adami]

Also listening to Cthulhu for the first time in a very long time.

Stu trying to passionately sing about the creatures tentacles. 

[Zook]

Hey, that's the best song on the album.

[Adami]

Hey, that's the best song on the album.

The chorus is soooooooo overly generic for modern IE. But most of the song is pretty good, but come on....how can you not laugh at that line about the power of his tentacles?

[Zook]

Aren't Cthulhu's tentacles pretty powerful though?

It never came across as silly to me.