MP about I&W and ADTOE connection

[senecadawg2]

I don't like this. MP 

[Slain]

Oh, and it has just been Wiki'd.





Many of the album's similarities with Images and Words have been a source of discussion amongst fans, as well as Mike Portnoy himself.[29]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Dramatic_Turn_of_Events#Musical_style

[Super Dude]

Oh, for the love of...

[Fluffy Lothario]

You know, there's only one way in the entire universe that MP could possibly redeem himself at this point: come out and reveal that all of his bullshit from the past year (leaving the band, his constant stream of comments, and of course Adrenaline Mob itself) was really just a Joaquin Phoenix-esque experiment in trolling his own fanbase and the world. If that and only that were to happen, then maybe this man's actions, words, music and his life in general would become comprehensible to me again.

[theseoafs]

Honestly this is one of the first albums
that they (to my knowledge yet) haven't reprised some musical theme or melody from the past.

Scenes from a Memory and (understandably) the albums featuring the 12-Step Suite are the only ones to do that.

[MetalJens]

I wonder if any of the DT guys will comment on this, or just leave it alone. I can see some similarities in structure, but that doesn't take anything away from the album at all. I doubt that JP and JR would admit to using the same structures as some of the I&W songs, because I'm not sure it was intentional.

If you read the facebook post by Campos, it's no doubt that it was intentional. I mean, several of the songs has the _exact_ same pattern, and given the complexity of the song structures the chance for that to be a coincidence would be like 1:1000000.

However, I don't see how that changes anything. The music is still awesome. 

[Perpetual Change]

I don't see what the big deal is. The songs sound nothing like the songs on Images and Words. Nor do they sound anything like any music being made these days.

[Super Dude]

I think someone in the thread mentioned it might have actually been a nod to MP and their history together? If so, sounds like a well-intentioned gesture that MP either wasn't smart enough to detect or simply doesn't care about.

[ReaPsTA]

This is where the way people are in general confuses me.  If you break down the structures of the songs, a lot of the stuff Thiago talks about is accurate.  And MP is in the top .1 percent of people qualified to talk about DT's music since he was in the band.  But people are acting like he's full of it because they don't like how he said it (and to be fair, he said it in a really crappy way).

If JP said in an interview "With some of the songs, we definitely looked at what we did on I&W to inspire how we move between sections to find the old liveliness in our music," I can guarantee people would start talking about how obvious the connections were.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

oh, MP.


lol.

[skydivingninja]

I don't feel there are tons of similarities to I&W.  I mean, yeah, you can think of Outcry's crazy instrumental section as a way of DT going back to the crazy Metropolis/ACoS style, FFH/BAI is  a clear parallel to WFS/LtL, and BAI's solo section sounds like it could have fit into LitS.  I can even see some calling the first heavy BitS riff as Glass Prison-ish.  But I don't see a lot of the other comparisons.

As for MP's behavior, I feel that, as many people think, he's being passive-aggressive, whiny, and really needs to remember that HE left the band, and taking shots at the band isn't going to convert DT fans to his "side" that leaving DT was the right thing to do and they're horrible people to want to continue without him.  Especially when reception seems pretty positive.  Plus, as others have mentioned, he's the one who was into the "inspiration row" thing, the one who apparently didn't have a problem with playing on songs that sounded like Metallica/U2/Muse ripoffs, not to mention he sold BC&SL as a DT album with "PMU, ACoS, 8VM, LtL, and TGP" on it.  If he doesn't have anything nice to say about the album, he should just keep his mouth shut.  Now that blabbermouth's got their hands on this "story" he can complain about how he was misinterpreted and whatnot.  Its just getting lame and tired.  I'd like to go a month without seeing something stupid that MP said everywhere.

[Slain]

I'd like to go a month without seeing something stupid that MP said everywhere.

Or a week...

[dongringo]

Obvious dig.

[KevShmev]

Like I said earlier, in art, people borrow from themselves ALL OF THE TIME.  Musicians do it.  Movie directors do it.  Etc.  And borrowing song structures from yourself falls under the banner of "Who gives a crap?" for me.  The (compared) songs sound nothing alike, except for the pretty obvious similarity between the between of Lost Not Forgotten and Under a Glass Moon, so this is much ado about nothing. 

I suspect that this is driving Portnoy nuts that the fanbase for the most part is loving the new album, and now he has found a way to worm his way into music headlines in regards to DT days days before the official release of the physical CD here in the States.  Sad.  Not surprising at all, but still quite sad. 

Bottom line: there is simply no way to spin the last thing he said into being anything other than a cheap shot.  It wasn't a direct accusation, but wondering that out loud like that is all but an accusation.

[ReaPsTA]

Like I said earlier, in art, people borrow from themselves ALL OF THE TIME.  Musicians do it.  Movie directors do it.  Etc.  And borrowing song structures from yourself falls under the banner of "Who gives a crap?" for me.  The (compared) songs sound nothing alike, except for the pretty obvious similarity between the between of Lost Not Forgotten and Under a Glass Moon, so this is much ado about nothing. 

I suspect that this is driving Portnoy nuts that the fanbase for the most part is loving the new album, and now he has found a way to worm his way into music headlines in regards to DT days days before the official release of the physical CD here in the States.  Sad.  Not surprising at all, but still quite sad. 

I almost actually like that DT reused their old structures.  LNF and TITS are awesome songs.  I love that there's a FFH/BAI connection like WFS/LTL.  OTBOA did exactly what it was supposed to do, so why not use the old structure.  Remember, I&W was released almost 20 years ago.  It's not like they borrowed from BCSL or SC.

I just get bugged by the people who say there's no connection.

Bottom line: there is simply no way to spin the last thing he said into being anything other than a cheap shot.  It wasn't a direct accusation, but wondering that out loud like that is all but an accusation.

This is true.  Even if he was right... yeah he was trying to take a cheap shot.

[Super Dude]

Like I said earlier, in art, people borrow from themselves ALL OF THE TIME.  Musicians do it.  Movie directors do it.  Etc.  And borrowing song structures from yourself falls under the banner of "Who gives a crap?" for me.  The (compared) songs sound nothing alike, except for the pretty obvious similarity between the between of Lost Not Forgotten and Under a Glass Moon, so this is much ado about nothing. 

I suspect that this is driving Portnoy nuts that the fanbase for the most part is loving the new album, and now he has found a way to worm his way into music headlines in regards to DT days days before the official release of the physical CD here in the States.  Sad.  Not surprising at all, but still quite sad. 

I almost actually like that DT reused their old structures.  LNF and TITS are awesome songs.  I love that there's a FFH/BAI connection like WFS/LTL.  OTBOA did exactly what it was supposed to do, so why not use the old structure.  Remember, I&W was released almost 20 years ago.  It's not like they borrowed from BCSL or SC.

I just get bugged by the people who say there's no connection.

Bottom line: there is simply no way to spin the last thing he said into being anything other than a cheap shot.  It wasn't a direct accusation, but wondering that out loud like that is all but an accusation.

This is true.  Even if he was right... yeah he was trying to take a cheap shot.

I am gonna love using that abbreviation in the future.

[ReaPsTA]

I am gonna love using that abbreviation in the future.

OH GOD NO.  NO!!!  WHAT HAVE I DONE!?

[KevShmev]

I just get bugged by the people who say there's no connection.
 

I think most people either don't care or think that guy who did the original write-up vastly overstated it. 

I mean, saying that Surrounded and Build Me Up, Break My Down possibly have a connection because they are both keyboard-driven?

But hold on, everyone...I have just figured out that Anna Lee and Far From Heaven have a strong connection.  I mean, they are both piano-driven!!!!

[Slain]

I actually hope that he says whether he genuinely liked the album or not. Why not? At this point, most people believe that he doesn't, so it can't really hurt him that much more.

[ReaPsTA]

I just get bugged by the people who say there's no connection.
 

I think most people either don't care or think that guy who did the original write-up vastly overstated it. 

I mean, saying that Surrounded and Build Me Up, Break My Down possibly have a connection because they are both keyboard-driven?

But hold on, everyone...I have just figured out that Anna Lee and Far From Heaven have a strong connection.  I mean, they are both piano-driven!!!!

He did specifically bold the more obvious connections and BMUBMD/Surrounded was one of the unbolded ones.  But again I see where you're coming from.  Even when he admitted they were tenuous, even suggesting the unbolded connections hurt his credibility.

[WildeSilas]

"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief, they all kill their inspiration, then sing about the grief." - U2 (The Fly)

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I posted this over MP.com

@Thiago: It's cool that you post your thoughts, your comparisons and everything, but it seems you're trying too hard to be noticed. I mean, wasn't it enough to post it on facebook? You had to come here, post it and say you expected MP to notice the similarities. Some of the comparisons are very forced, Bridges in the Sky and Take the Time? Really? Either way, you have to deal with the fact you started something big here and not post a "Dream Theater fans aren't that knowledgeable about music after all! (?)" blog. You don't have to justify anything bro. "I guess I'm just frustrated by ignorance"? Really? Aristotle would be proud.

@Mike Portnoy:  Come on, Mike. Desperate attempts to re-write the past? That sounds like a cheap shot against the band to my ears. Whether you mean it or not, it's obvious your comments are going to generate these discussions and disagreements.

Just had to get it out of my system, somehow. It's probably going to be deleted or something, but I just had to say something right in the place.

[Super Dude]

"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief, they all kill their inspiration, then sing about the grief." - U2 (The Fly)

Those are awesome lyrics (too bad Bono is a tool, because otherwise I'd commend him for that one).  Can't wait to see them in an Adrenaline Mob song.

[dongringo]

I posted this over MP.com

@Thiago: It's cool that you post your thoughts, your comparisons and everything, but it seems you're trying too hard to be noticed. I mean, wasn't it enough to post it on facebook? You had to come here, post it and say you expected MP to notice the similarities. Some of the comparisons are very forced, Bridges in the Sky and Take the Time? Really? Either way, you have to deal with the fact you started something big here and not post a "Dream Theater fans aren't that knowledgeable about music after all! (?)" blog. You don't have to justify anything bro. "I guess I'm just frustrated by ignorance"? Really? Aristotle would be proud.

@Mike Portnoy:  Come on, Mike. Desperate attempts to re-write the past? That sounds like a cheap shot against the band to my ears. Whether you mean it or not, it's obvious your comments are going to generate these discussions and disagreements.

Just had to get it out of my system, somehow. It's probably going to be deleted or something, but I just had to say something right in the place.

  You the man!

[Slain]

Just had to get it out of my system, somehow. It's probably going to be deleted or something, but I just had to say something right in the place.

Maybe not deleted, but you'll get tons of replies, like: "Stop attacking MP!" or "People just don't appreciate what he has done for the band..."

[KevShmev]

@Mike Portnoy:  Come on, Mike. Desperate attempts to re-write the past? That sounds like a cheap shot against the band to my ears. Whether you mean it or not, it's obvious your comments are going to generate these discussions and disagreements.

Which is probably why he did it.  It was likely driving him nuts that even a lot of folks on his own forum were salivating over the new Dream Theater record, and with his cheap shot, he managed to drive the thread off in another direction. 

"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief, they all kill their inspiration, then sing about the grief." - U2 (The Fly)

Those are awesome lyrics (too bad Bono is a tool, because otherwise I'd commend him for that one).  Can't wait to see them in an Adrenaline Mob song.

Bono is awesome.  Awesome singer, frontman and lyricist.

[m0hawk]

MP is going to simultaneously hate and enjoy this album. Hate it for what it represents, but enjoy the songs because they are some damn good tunes!

[chrisbDTM]

I posted this over MP.com

@Thiago: It's cool that you post your thoughts, your comparisons and everything, but it seems you're trying too hard to be noticed. I mean, wasn't it enough to post it on facebook? You had to come here, post it and say you expected MP to notice the similarities. Some of the comparisons are very forced, Bridges in the Sky and Take the Time? Really? Either way, you have to deal with the fact you started something big here and not post a "Dream Theater fans aren't that knowledgeable about music after all! (?)" blog. You don't have to justify anything bro. "I guess I'm just frustrated by ignorance"? Really? Aristotle would be proud.

@Mike Portnoy:  Come on, Mike. Desperate attempts to re-write the past? That sounds like a cheap shot against the band to my ears. Whether you mean it or not, it's obvious your comments are going to generate these discussions and disagreements.

Just had to get it out of my system, somehow. It's probably going to be deleted or something, but I just had to say something right in the place.

  You the man!

right on. i wish someone would post his quote about BC&SL containing the dt classics, cause i know he is reading every post. i mean how did he come across thiago's analysis?

[Perpetual Change]

Yeah, I agree with everything KevSchmev said above.

It's not exactly strange for an artist to have a template. Authors have templates for how chapters and novels work. Animators have templates which they use over and over again, too. Like 99 percent of songs are based on the very same template of (chorus, verse, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus) yet no-one seems to care at all.

I remember MP saying the same thing about "Time Flies", so I think it's *probably* fair to say that our "fearless ex-leader" probably gets a little touchy when he can't understand why his fans like something so much more than what he's doing.  But he was making a big deal about nothing then, as is the case now.

I do hope MP stops trying to draw the line between his fans. If he wants to keep acting this way because he's upset people aren't digging the Mob as much as this stuff, that's on him. But it will lose him fans faster than Dream Theater or Porcupine Tree still releasing good music ever will.

[davzdrummer]

  everyone... I just don't get this MP vs DT anymore... I don't think MP is bashing DT or vice versa... If MP won't say a word, people are saying things like "why won't MP speak up", or "MP be brave and say something", or "I'd really like to hear from MP whether it be good or bad" etc... now that MP says something, everyone is bringing all the hate... i'm just disappointed with how people are reacting... I'm not taking sides... Good luck to MP and DT!  And I thank both sides for all the great music they have given us! 

[champbassist]

Let us, for one moment, consider whatever is being conjectured is saying is 100% true. DT did, in fact, follow the blueprints of I&W songs to the absolute T (though I think it's unrealistic to think that someone in the band would sit down and say, "Hey guys let's follow the song structure of UAGM on LNF."). Ultimately, does that make the album a bad one? Are we, hereby, supposed to conclude that DT have run out of ideas (possibly as MP isn't with them now )? Or is it that people trying to say that DT were trying so hard to make the album memorable that they ended up resorting to repeating old formulae?

What difference does any of these points make to the overall likeability of the album? If anyone is trying to justify their dislike of the album with such points, I don't think they need to. Don't like it, no problem. The music on the album is quite refreshing to my ears and that's enough for me.

[Super Dude]

Bono is awesome.  Awesome singer, frontman and lyricist.

As an artist yes, as a person he's a douche imo.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

You know, I've always been understanding of MP ever since he left, but now, he is getting on my nerves. I wish he would just stop saying things about DT and the album. I put a comment on Thiago's picture (where MP posted on his forum), and I just said: "I don't understand what the big deal is. It's just an album, it sounds great. That's all that matters."

Why does everything have to have a meaning?

[chrisbDTM]

everyone... I just don't get this MP vs DT anymore... I don't think MP is bashing DT or vice versa... If MP won't say a word, people are saying things like "why won't MP speak up", or "MP be brave and say something", or "I'd really like to hear from MP whether it be good or bad" etc... now that MP says something, everyone is bringing all the hate... i'm just disappointed with how people are reacting... I'm not taking sides... Good luck to MP and DT!  And I thank both sides for all the great music they have given us! 

it was nice saying that the first 5 or so times he said something. the last line is a dig, no way of spinning it.

[Vajra]

These will be the topics of debate/discussion over the course of the next 2 years till the next album...

-Any MP comments
-I&W similarities to ADTOE
-The Shaman's "HUWMM" in BITS
-BMU, BMD being too nu-metal
-Dissecting every single detail of ADTOE