MP about I&W and ADTOE connection

[ariich]

Rich, no need to explain it.  It is obvious.  Almost everyone else is seeing it, and if you don't, well, I'd say that you probably need to take off your rose covered glasses for once. 

Nice explanation.

I guess what I'm not getting is why similar song structures is supposed to be a negative thing? There are a finite number of structures that can exist, so unique ones don't really exist anymore.

[Knguro]

TOX, had he left the original breakdown as is, it would have been fine (even though the majority of it is a major reach), but him writing the follow up about how DT fans are apparently ignorant and stupid (or whatever he said) and then taking the overly-defensive, condescending tone that he did (read the thread on Portnoy's forum to see this) made him look like, well, not good (I can't use the word I wanted to since he is now a member here and I don't feel like getting chastised for attacking a fellow poster).  If you can read all of that and still say, "He did nothing wrong," well, I would ask you to give Rich his glasses back.

I guess I just assumed that people were only pissed about his original post. Never bothered to see what had transpired since. Apologies to all for my laziness.

Yes I was referring also to his next posts after MP answered. And don't worry laziness is a bitch too haha

[KevShmev]

Rich, no need to explain it.  It is obvious.  Almost everyone else is seeing it, and if you don't, well, I'd say that you probably need to take off your rose covered glasses for once. 

Nice explanation.

I guess what I'm not getting is why similar song structures is supposed to be a negative thing? There are a finite number of structures that can exist, so unique ones don't really exist anymore.

Er, that is what everyone, including myself, have said.  Have you read the whole thread?

[ariich]

TOX, had he left the original breakdown as is, it would have been fine (even though the majority of it is a major reach), but him writing the follow up about how DT fans are apparently ignorant and stupid (or whatever he said) and then taking the overly-defensive, condescending tone that he did (read the thread on Portnoy's forum to see this) made him look like, well, not good (I can't use the word I wanted to since he is now a member here and I don't feel like getting chastised for attacking a fellow poster).  If you can read all of that and still say, "He did nothing wrong," well, I would ask you to give Rich his glasses back.

I guess I just assumed that people were only pissed about his original post. Never bothered to see what had transpired since. Apologies to all for my laziness.

Yes I was referring also to his next posts after MP answered. And don't worry laziness is a bitch too haha

Ah was there something else since the post that was quoted in the OP of this thread? I haven't seen anything since that.

[ariich]

Rich, no need to explain it.  It is obvious.  Almost everyone else is seeing it, and if you don't, well, I'd say that you probably need to take off your rose covered glasses for once. 

Nice explanation.

I guess what I'm not getting is why similar song structures is supposed to be a negative thing? There are a finite number of structures that can exist, so unique ones don't really exist anymore.

Er, that is what everyone, including myself, have said.  Have you read the whole thread?

Yes, but people are basing the notion that it was an insult towards DT on the premise that it's a negative thing, which it isn't. There's some kind of logic gap in there.

[KevShmev]

No, most of the issue is with Portnoy's comments about it. 

Most of us realize that the alleged I&W similarities are no big deal, intentional or not.

[ariich]

I haven't read the full thread, is there more than just the one quoted in the OP of this thread?

[Knguro]

TOX, had he left the original breakdown as is, it would have been fine (even though the majority of it is a major reach), but him writing the follow up about how DT fans are apparently ignorant and stupid (or whatever he said) and then taking the overly-defensive, condescending tone that he did (read the thread on Portnoy's forum to see this) made him look like, well, not good (I can't use the word I wanted to since he is now a member here and I don't feel like getting chastised for attacking a fellow poster).  If you can read all of that and still say, "He did nothing wrong," well, I would ask you to give Rich his glasses back.

I guess I just assumed that people were only pissed about his original post. Never bothered to see what had transpired since. Apologies to all for my laziness.

Yes I was referring also to his next posts after MP answered. And don't worry laziness is a bitch too haha

Ah was there something else since the post that was quoted in the OP of this thread? I haven't seen anything since that.

I didn't say it was a this forum

[Kotowboy]

I'm pretty sure a lot of bands always talk about "recapturing the spirit" of earlier, more successful albums.

Stuff like " we went back to x album and figured out what we were thinking or what made it so great ".

Pretty sure i've read this a dozen times before.

It's nothing new If it is indeed the case here.

[SnakeEyes]

This thread is RETARDED.  Who cares about the "structure" (let's call it by a musical word, by the way - FORM)?  Seriously, did any of you people listen to this album and say, "WHOA!  THE FORM FOR THESE SONGS IS EXACTLY LIKE IMAGES & WORDS!  OMG!"  It even took the original poster many times of listening to the songs to even figure this out and he had to A/B them to hear it! 

So, basically:  WHO THE HELL CARES!  Leave it to DT fans to pick every frigging little thing apart.   

[Adami]

This thread is RETARDED.  Who cares about the "structure" (let's call it by a musical word, by the way - FORM)?  Seriously, did any of you people listen to this album and say, "WHOA!  THE FORM FOR THESE SONGS IS EXACTLY LIKE IMAGES & WORDS!  OMG!"  It even took the original poster many times of listening to the songs to even figure this out and he had to A/B them to hear it! 

So, basically:  WHO THE HELL CARES!  Leave it to DT fans to pick every frigging little thing apart. 

I don't think anyone here is complaining about it. I think most people are discussing MPs comments on the issue, but I haven't read every post.

[Kotowboy]

This thread is RETARDED.  Who cares about the "structure" (let's call it by a musical word, by the way - FORM)?  Seriously, did any of you people listen to this album and say, "WHOA!  THE FORM FOR THESE SONGS IS EXACTLY LIKE IMAGES & WORDS!  OMG!"  It even took the original poster many times of listening to the songs to even figure this out and he had to A/B them to hear it! 

So, basically:  WHO THE HELL CARES!  Leave it to DT fans to pick every frigging little thing apart. 

Could be worse. Could be Tool Fans.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

In 1 or 2 months, once the album has been more digested by everyone, these stupid things will be forgotten. Take my word.

[SnakeEyes]

In 1 or 2 months, once the album has been more digested by everyone, these stupid things will be forgotten. Take my word.

Hopefully. 

[BlobVanDam]

In 1 or 2 months, once the album has been more digested by everyone, these stupid things will be forgotten. Take my word.

I will take your word. I trust you.

[duncan3dc]

In 1 or 2 months, once the album has been more digested by everyone, these stupid things will be forgotten. Take my word.

Yeh, cos no one ever mentions the Octavarium nuggets

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

In 1 or 2 months, once the album has been more digested by everyone, these stupid things will be forgotten. Take my word.

I will take your word. I trust you.

Or rather lost.


but not forgotten.

[Bertielee]

In 1 or 2 months, once the album has been more digested by everyone, these stupid things will be forgotten. Take my word.

I will take your word. I trust you.

Or rather lost.


but not forgotten.

Nope, I think it will remain just beneath the surface!

B.Lee

[chrisbDTM]

No, most of the issue is with Portnoy's comments about it. 

Most of us realize that the alleged I&W similarities are no big deal, intentional or not.

QFT

[Mebert78]

I don't think Portnoy has ever heard the saying: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

[nikatapi]

I don't think Portnoy has ever heard the saying: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Actually, he used this phrase in one interview when he was asked about the new DT album.

[JediKnight1969]

This thread is RETARDED.  Who cares about the "structure" (let's call it by a musical word, by the way - FORM)?  Seriously, did any of you people listen to this album and say, "WHOA!  THE FORM FOR THESE SONGS IS EXACTLY LIKE IMAGES & WORDS!  OMG!"  It even took the original poster many times of listening to the songs to even figure this out and he had to A/B them to hear it! 

So, basically:  WHO THE HELL CARES!  Leave it to DT fans to pick every frigging little thing apart. 

THIS.

[JediKnight1969]

In 1 or 2 months, once the album has been more digested by everyone, these stupid things will be forgotten. Take my word.

AMEN BRO.

[hefdaddy42]

In 1 or 2 months, once the album has been more digested by everyone, these stupid things will be forgotten. Take my word.

Priest.

[ariich]

MP obviously has no problem with the notion of using old ideas, he specifically said that he thinks if they were intentional "nuggets" then it's pretty cool.

I'm not sure what he means with the comment about re-writing the past, unless as has been suggested earlier in the thread he's worried that they've tried to start anew and almost write him out of their history.

So yeah, I still don't understand this thread.

[Pirate]

Rich, no need to explain it.  It is obvious.  Almost everyone else is seeing it, and if you don't, well, I'd say that you probably need to take off your rose covered glasses for once. 

Nice explanation.

I guess what I'm not getting is why similar song structures is supposed to be a negative thing? There are a finite number of structures that can exist, so unique ones don't really exist anymore.

I don't exactly understand what your saying here. I'm pretty sure music has infinite potential for creativity.

[hefdaddy42]

MP obviously has no problem with the notion of using old ideas, he specifically said that he thinks if they were intentional "nuggets" then it's pretty cool.

I'm not sure what he means with the comment about re-writing the past, unless as has been suggested earlier in the thread he's worried that they've tried to start anew and almost write him out of their history.

So yeah, I still don't understand this thread.

ariich, he is being negative toward the band.  I don't think that was Thiago's intention, but it is certainly MP's intention, or at least the way he comes across.  I don't understand how you aren't seeing that.

[Mebert78]

His "desperate attempt at rewriting the past" comment is a major insult.  I'm almost feeling like he wants to play the role of villain in DT world.  If he's not careful he's going to turn all DT fans away from him.  Probably not, but that's how I felt when i first read his comment.  If he had an appearance in my area today, I'd feel a small inclination to go and boo him if he wants to play villain so badly.  He's sure making it hard for DT fans to love him.

[Peter Griffin]

thiago, you say MP is rightfully bitter.  can you please elaborate as to why it would be in his right to be bitter?  does this have to do w/ the similarities in song structures (by the way, good job taking the time (nuggetz) to do the analysis, but your approach is extremely irritating, your evidence dubious, and the supposed connections full of conjecture. i give the analysis a 2 out of 10. pretty weak, bro)? or is it something less tenuous? 

[ariich]

I don't exactly understand what your saying here. I'm pretty sure music has infinite potential for creativity.

In a song of finite length there are only so many song structures that could be done, that's all I meant. Obviously within the bounds of structures there's all sorts of things you can do to be creative, I just meant that having the same structures means nothing really, and I don't think Thiago nor MP disagree with that.

ariich, he is being negative toward the band.  I don't think that was Thiago's intention, but it is certainly MP's intention, or at least the way he comes across.  I don't understand how you aren't seeing that.

I'm not saying there wasn't any negativity, because he did indeed suggest the possibility that they were trying to re-write the past, but it was only an "if" statement, and I still don't really know what he meant by that. But attacking the band? Nope, I'm not seeing it, and apparently nobody is willing to explain it to me.

[Peter Griffin]

I think it's a real shame that the similarities are being received in this way. When I found out I was really looking forward to a thread on here discussing various sections as people discovered them.
In a similar way to when people find the shared sections between Far From Heaven and Breaking All Illusions. People post about those with excitement, and other users are glad to have them pointed out.

But for some reason when pointing out similarities in structure between Images & Words songs and Dramatic Turn songs, a lot of people get very defensive about it, in a "so what?!" kinda way 

people are irritated, i think, because of the timing of this analysis. couldn't thiago have waited until the album was released worldwide, instead of poisoning the jury, so to speak? i wouldn't be surprised if the analysis was done using a pirated copy, anyway.

[johncal]

I don't think Thiago is thinking about anything but Thiago. It happens though. We're all guilty of it at one time or another. 10x for MP.

[gm5k]

people are irritated, i think, because of the timing of this analysis. couldn't thiago have waited until the album was released worldwide, instead of poisoning the jury, so to speak?

My thoughts exactly. 

[Peter Griffin]

every time i read ariich's posts, i 

rose colored glasses, indeed.

ariich, do you take pleasure in playing obtuse? cuz you otherwise seem like a pretty smart guy. 

[ariich]

I'm not playing anything, and I do rather resent this "rose coloured glasses" bullshit. Rather than insulting me, how about actually giving me the explanation that I've been asking for?

As for apparently being an MP-defender, I'm not. But I do always strive for fairness and often find myself defending anyone that is being attacked. It just so happens that on DTF MP gets attacked more than anyone else.