*OFFICIAL* A Dramatic Turn Of Events discussion thread -- **SPOILER ALERT!!!**

[johncal]

Anyone else think the guitars are too loud in the mix?  I felt sometimes like they were overpowering everything else and were just too much, especially on the really heavy parts in songs like Lost Not Forgotten and Bridges in the Sky.

Little bit.  I got used to it pretty easily as I went through it, but when BMU,BMD first started, I definitely had this impression.

I think in the next album the guitars will be quiter and drums will be louder if for no other reason than all our bitching! These guys do pay attention.

I don't know.  For me, I didn't feel there was anything wrong with the drums on this album.  Granted, I only had one listen.  And it's also worth noting that I've never been one to really listen specifically to the drumming, so maybe it just doesn't stand out to me as such a problem because I'm not listening that hard for it. 

But as far as I could tell, while Mangini's playing wasn't exactly on top of the mix, it supported the songs very, very well.

I'll say this, when I play it on my really good home sound system, the drums sound great, but on anything else they sound weak, In fact on my good system everything sounds mixed well, but most people are listening on car stereos and computers nowdays..... I don't know. You'll definitely want a good system to get everything out of this disk. sounds VERY different.

[Bacong]

on my headphones:



the drums sound great.

[johncal]

The drums sound very Portnoy-ish, if that means anything to you. A relief to some, disappointment for others, you can't please everyone.

If it's splitting the opinions down the middle, then they played it perfectly.

[johncal]

on my headphones:



the drums sound great.

Wish I could do the headphones but I'm 100% deaf in my right ear between 3-4KHZ. So I need the channel blending from speakers. Probably the years of drumming that did me in.

[energythief]

Why not? LNF is pretty damn awesome.

LNF is quite possibly my favourite.

Absolutely amazing song! My current favorite.

[Tumdace]

Oooh man.

Outcry is my absolute favourite.

Followed closely by Breaking All Illusions and then Bridges in the Sky.

I love the start of Lost Not Forgotten and I actually think This is the Life is a pretty awesome ballad.

Overall, my second favourite album.

I still prefer Images and Words, but I really do think this is their 2nd best album.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

The chorus for Outcry kicks all kinds of asses.

[Tumdace]

Lost not Forgotten 1:54-2:34 is one of the most atrocious pieces of crap

I actually loved that part, but I can see why lots would hate it.

Actually probably my 2nd favourite part of that song, after the part that comes right after it (the heavy riff).

[Tumdace]

Anyone else think the guitars are too loud in the mix?  I felt sometimes like they were overpowering everything else and were just too much, especially on the really heavy parts in songs like Lost Not Forgotten and Bridges in the Sky.

Little bit.  I got used to it pretty easily as I went through it, but when BMU,BMD first started, I definitely had this impression.

I think in the next album the guitars will be quiter and drums will be louder if for no other reason than all our bitching! These guys do pay attention.

I don't know.  For me, I didn't feel there was anything wrong with the drums on this album.  Granted, I only had one listen.  And it's also worth noting that I've never been one to really listen specifically to the drumming, so maybe it just doesn't stand out to me as such a problem because I'm not listening that hard for it. 

But as far as I could tell, while Mangini's playing wasn't exactly on top of the mix, it supported the songs very, very well.

I'll say this, when I play it on my really good home sound system, the drums sound great, but on anything else they sound weak, In fact on my good system everything sounds mixed well, but most people are listening on car stereos and computers nowdays..... I don't know. You'll definitely want a good system to get everything out of this disk. sounds VERY different.

I definately cant wait for my box set to come in with the vinyl.

My financial situation really took a turn for the better and I will be able to pick up my turntable in a couple weeks, so I'll be in audio bliss with the vinyl .

But I thought this was probably one of DT's best mixed albums in a long time. Nothing seemed too loud or too quiet, and although some may say the drums did seem too quiet, on multiple listens (im on my 4th now) the drums can actually be pretty well distinguished with good audio equipment.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

The gong at the end of Outcry sounds like a real gong, not the thrash can MP used during Score (6DOIT).

[emindead]

There are good parts in this album. They need a producer who is not in the band. A lot of wasted opportunities, most notable: Beneath The Surface. I mean, this could be their biggest hit in their whole career and they blew it because they couldn't come up with a climatic part.

That song has beautiful guitars and the JR arrangements are lovely (that moog solo is mind-blowing), the main melody is spectacular... but this song lacks a memorable punch. Wasted opportunity. The beautiful build-up "I would scream just to be heard. As if yelling at the stars... I was pleading just to feel. You would never say a word, kept me reaching in the dark, always something to conceal" resolves in nothing. I got this same sensation with ITPOE pt. 2. So frustrating. There's no climax.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

The high-pitched JLB vocal line at the end sounds very climatic to me.

[Edan the Man]

The high-pitched JLB vocal line at the end sounds very climatic to me.

Seriously, this so much. I can't understand saying this song has no climax!

[ddtonfire]

The ending to Bridges in the Sky is the most badass and heavy ending DT's ever done. Blows TDEN out of the water.

Right behind the ending of The Mirror, I agree with this.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Also, it's funny to my ears how lots of this stuff manages to have a strong reminiscence of classic DT sounds, while sounding "modern".

Some of these songs sound much more modern than anything Portnoy said he was making in DT.

[emindead]

The high-pitched JLB vocal line at the end sounds very climatic to me.

I like the high-pitch part... but that song lacks a more memorable part, you know, the part that hooks millions of listeners and makes it a hit.

[farsight]

One thing that I am wondering about is why they didnt put BITS in as the heavy opener like The Glass Prison that could have put the album immediately on pace right at the start. IMO OTBOA and BMUBMD kind of dragged on a little bit. But man I don't quite remember a DT album end on what I think is such a good string of five songs since Awake.

[Fiery Winds]

One thing that I am wondering about is why they didnt put BITS in as the heavy opener like The Glass Prison that could have put the album immediately on pace right at the start. IMO OTBOA and BMUBMD kind of dragged on a little bit. But man I don't quite remember a DT album end on what I think is such a good string of five songs since Awake.

Because they didn't want a repeat of SFAM with fans going, "What the hell is this?!"

[Bacong]

JLB's vocals at the end of BTS are cringeworthy.

[Apricot]

In this I explain both my first listening experiences and later listening thoughts, to avoid confusion.


On the Backs of Angels

I already whored this one out haha, but nevertheless I began with this song. Much to my dismay my headphones were being awkward during this and I spent most of it's playing time taping the jack into the right place so it plays out of both ears. I succeeded!

Even now though I still feel this is an amazing song, although I don't see it as part of the album which I blame myself for, because I've listened to it that much that every time I go to listen to this album through, it begins from BMUBMD. But I'm sure if I had the perception I would agree it's an excellent album opener!



Build Me Up, Break Me Down

Ok after hearing the nu-metal riff and electronic drums I was tempted to cringe, although I tried my best to take it in with open ears. There isn't much I like about this, I feel the lyrics are naff, the riff and meh the chorus is catchy I suppose. This lead to expecting disappointment on the next track...

As of now I feel this is the weakest song on the album, in fact one of the weakest songs they've ever released in my opinion. Sorry, not getting this one.


Lost Not Forgotten

Hearing the piano riff already brought my hopes back up, and with the guitar complimenting the melody and the almost circling sound of the keyboard over that, as well as Mangini's AMAZING drums in this...I was literally smiling my face off. My cheeks were overlapping my eyes and I actually wanted to cry out of a statement of "Oh god yes, this is Dream Theater". Even the dissonant melodies that everyone seems to be hating on I loved, but I'm a fan of dissonance, especially in Dream Theater's music. And the chorus is one of the best I've ever heard man, bursts from nowhere and is so energetic. The solo section is awesome, especially the keyboard. It sounds so gliding and natural. Definitely my favourite/tied favourite on the album.


This is the Life

As a first listen there were not many surprises as most of the riffs are/orientate around those in the snippet, but I feel that this is a beautiful song. I love the atmosphere.


Bridges in the Sky

I found this song so amazing, and I usually lean away from Dream Theater's metal songs. But this, man it kicks ass. I love the melody lines in "Dance of fire, take me higher" and the chorus, which is so complimented with the 7 string power chords. I haven't got much to say for this from the top of my head, but it's stunning. I love it to pieces.


Outcry

Now this is a song I was anticipating as BitS ended but I never caught onto it, and am still searching to do so...only gave it a couple of intent listens so I won't say anything on this as of now.


Far From Heaven

This almost had me in tears. Absolutely beautiful, I love the melodies of both the vocals and piano at "...change who I am". It's so uplifting in an otherwise minor song, and that had my eyes quivering, and even more so with LaBrie's vibrato techniques later after.


Breaking All Illusions

First listen I actually thought this was terrible, and some parts sounded unfitting together. I took a second listen and realised I must've been on crack because I couldn't see what I previously had. Everything seemed to fit like a jigsaw, and again I had a few eye quivering moments hear, especially the "Live in the moment" section. So full of emotion. A progressive masterpiece I would call this.


Beneath the Surface

I thought this definitely did it's job of cooling down the album as I listened to it, and then near the end of the album when James belts out the chorus with oure emotion and power, I shed the first tear (literally, not quiverring) ever to a Dream Theater song. So unexepcted yet beautiful, caught me off guard.


After listening to this album I sat in awe and silence. This is amazing.

[Tumdace]

...dunno if someone has heard the "The Shattered Fortress" section in BITS... cool reference on MP, I think

What time?

[Jaffa]

JLB's vocals at the end of BTS are cringeworthy.

I don't like you anymore, Mr. Bacong.

[Edan the Man]

JLB's vocals at the end of BTS are cringeworthy.

[Tumdace]

Ya first listen I thought it sounded very weird and very strange.

But by the 3rd listen, I was getting how most of the songs were meant to be heard and it makes the album so much better.

[Scooterfruit]

I buckled and listened to the stream. 
 
I always approach all music with an open mind and this was no different. I devoted my full attention to it being cautiously optimistic...
 
I was completely and utterly moved emotionally, musically and spiritually by it. Every song was amazing in it's own way. 
 
When James jumps the octave at the end of Beneath the Surface, I will fully admit, I broke down into tears. Just amazing.
 
But this is only one listen. Not enough to be fully critical. But so far....Wow.

[WildeSilas]

ITT only drummers "get" how fucking ridiculous MM's playing is.

Seriously. What the hell is wrong with this guy? How the FUCK can you play in 3 time signatures at the same goddamned time? That is some serious Rainman shit and I won't be surprised if he's diagnosed with some bizarre brain tumor later in life that allows him that degree of separation. Anyone here play drums? We know how "independence" works but for fuck's sake, how the hell is he doing some of that shit on Outcry and LNF? Even more mind blowing is that it's not "in your face" ala MP but so subtle that people are saying his playing is "stock" on this album. I crapped myself about 45 seconds into the instrumental of Outcry. People, drummers don't play like this, they just don't. It's too hard to pay attention to the separate parts and stay in the pocket, but there MM is, on LNF, totally in the pocket, grooving to the beat of the song but alternating his other hand/foot to unison between JR and JMX's lines. Let me say again for emphasis What. The. Fuck. This is NOT normal, even among prog drummers, and I don't even know if it can be learned - it seems like one of those "either you can do it or not" things.

Also, sorry MP, but MM's subtleties are a better match to JMX's style and we're sure to see some very impressive things from the rhythm section the more they play together.

ALSO: PIANO, YAY!!!!

[mocool13]

on a first listen basis, the only songs that weren't clicking too much were BMUBMD and Outcry. A lot of fucking amazing moments that I can't really recall. I really loved the ballads, and it's good that they put three of them on this record

[chknptpie]

I don't know if I like the background vocals for BMUBMD during the chorus. Kinda screetchy.

[Bacong]

JLB's vocals at the end of BTS are cringeworthy.

I don't like you anymore, Mr. Bacong.

sorry bro(s), it just doesn't sound right.

[Metabog]

Hmm. I disagree, I think the vocals are  - worthy.

[Tumdace]

ITT only drummers "get" how fucking ridiculous MM's playing is.

Seriously. What the hell is wrong with this guy? How the FUCK can you play in 3 time signatures at the same goddamned time? That is some serious Rainman shit and I won't be surprised if he's diagnosed with some bizarre brain tumor later in life that allows him that degree of separation. Anyone here play drums? We know how "independence" works but for fuck's sake, how the hell is he doing some of that shit on Outcry and LNF? Even more mind blowing is that it's not "in your face" ala MP but so subtle that people are saying his playing is "stock" on this album. I crapped myself about 45 seconds into the instrumental of Outcry. People, drummers don't play like this, they just don't. It's too hard to pay attention to the separate parts and stay in the pocket, but there MM is, on LNF, totally in the pocket, grooving to the beat of the song but alternating his other hand/foot to unison between JR and JMX's lines. Let me say again for emphasis What. The. Fuck. This is NOT normal, even among prog drummers, and I don't even know if it can be learned - it seems like one of those "either you can do it or not" things.

Also, sorry MP, but MM's subtleties are a better match to JMX's style and we're sure to see some very impressive things from the rhythm section the more they play together.

ALSO: PIANO, YAY!!!!

LOL

Im not a drummer myself, and cant even begin to fathom what you have said, but I absolutely love when people get as excited as you have.

[johncal]

ITT only drummers "get" how fucking ridiculous MM's playing is.

Seriously. What the hell is wrong with this guy? How the FUCK can you play in 3 time signatures at the same goddamned time? That is some serious Rainman shit and I won't be surprised if he's diagnosed with some bizarre brain tumor later in life that allows him that degree of separation. Anyone here play drums? We know how "independence" works but for fuck's sake, how the hell is he doing some of that shit on Outcry and LNF? Even more mind blowing is that it's not "in your face" ala MP but so subtle that people are saying his playing is "stock" on this album. I crapped myself about 45 seconds into the instrumental of Outcry. People, drummers don't play like this, they just don't. It's too hard to pay attention to the separate parts and stay in the pocket, but there MM is, on LNF, totally in the pocket, grooving to the beat of the song but alternating his other hand/foot to unison between JR and JMX's lines. Let me say again for emphasis What. The. Fuck. This is NOT normal, even among prog drummers, and I don't even know if it can be learned - it seems like one of those "either you can do it or not" things.

Also, sorry MP, but MM's subtleties are a better match to JMX's style and we're sure to see some very impressive things from the rhythm section the more they play together.

ALSO: PIANO, YAY!!!!

I've said the EXACT same thing in at least 5 different threads now + I am a drummer so we're definitely on the same wavelength here.

[snapple]

Rating: 6.5/10. Position: my 9th favorite DT album above FII and Awake.

I don't think anyone should take a post of yours without a grain of salt....lime and some tequila. I read the first line  , saw poster  .

This album is really starting to age like wine with me. I loved it at first, sweet and very easy to dive into. The more I listen to it, the taste grows more complex and the aroma is refreshing. The one song I am COMPLETELY surprised that I keep going to is Bridges in The Sky. I thought I was going to have a big "meh" after hearing the snippet. From start to finish I feel like I am going into the Shaman's Trance.

A poster said BMUBMD sounds like JLB solo material. I agree with that, but I also love JLB solo material. If Coming Home were on this album, I'd absolutely shit my pants.

I always try to visit the songs that I DON'T like at first listen the most. When I purchased Falling Into Infinity, it was a huge let down for me. I think I spun it twice before I set it down for over a year. I came back to it and realized just how great of an album it was (I like You Not Me, for the record). The songs on this album that I didn't really find appealing at first are starting to grow on me. Outcry and Far From Heaven. While FFH is absolutely beautiful, it just takes some time to grow. Outcry is a great song, but not being the seasoned musician like many Dream Theater fans, the technical parts need to sit a bit for me to digest them.

One awesome aspect of this album is that the noodling parts felt completely within context. I never had that TDEN instrumental section moment where it felt like a different song. The instrumental sections of all the songs really still sound like the songs. Outcry's instrumental part still sounds like an outcry. Bridges' instrumental still makes me feel like I am in a trance.

Overall, I still can't rate this album. Like a good joke, part of rating it is it's lasting power. I will have to come back in a couple weeks or so.


Edit: I think Outcry's biggest problem for me is that it is right after Bridges, which was such a great song.

[quazmoto]

Shoot! The album is not available anymore...says something about server trouble and won't be ready until Monday I think 

Hopefully it will be fixed!

[Tumdace]

Rating: 6.5/10. Position: my 9th favorite DT album above FII and Awake.

I don't think anyone should take a post of yours without a grain of salt....lime and some tequila. I read the first line  , saw poster  .

This album is really starting to age like wine with me. I loved it at first, sweet and very easy to dive into. The more I listen to it, the taste grows more complex and the aroma is refreshing. The one song I am COMPLETELY surprised that I keep going to is Bridges in The Sky. I thought I was going to have a big "meh" after hearing the snippet. From start to finish I feel like I am going into the Shaman's Trance.

A poster said BMUBMD sounds like JLB solo material. I agree with that, but I also love JLB solo material. If Coming Home were on this album, I'd absolutely shit my pants.

I always try to visit the songs that I DON'T like at first listen the most. When I purchased Falling Into Infinity, it was a huge let down for me. I think I spun it twice before I set it down for over a year. I came back to it and realized just how great of an album it was (I like You Not Me, for the record). The songs on this album that I didn't really find appealing at first are starting to grow on me. Outcry and Far From Heaven. While FFH is absolutely beautiful, it just takes some time to grow. Outcry is a great song, but not being the seasoned musician like many Dream Theater fans, the technical parts need to sit a bit for me to digest them.

One awesome aspect of this album is that the noodling parts felt completely within context. I never had that TDEN instrumental section moment where it felt like a different song. The instrumental sections of all the songs really still sound like the songs. Outcry's instrumental part still sounds like an outcry. Bridges' instrumental still makes me feel like I am in a trance.

Overall, I still can't rate this album. Like a good joke, part of rating it is it's lasting power. I will have to come back in a couple weeks or so.


Edit: I think Outcry's biggest problem for me is that it is right after Bridges, which was such a great song.

I'd easily give this album a 9.5/10 based on the fact that its easy on the ears. I can turn the volume loud and not get any shrill sounds like I would on albums like FIF or ToT.

Its mixed perfectly IMO, and there are a ton of complex/catchy riffs in every song.

Its not perfect, but its one of DT's better albums.

And I think JLB sounds amazing on this album. Everybody does really.