*OFFICIAL* A Dramatic Turn Of Events discussion thread -- **SPOILER ALERT!!!**

[kartmaze2]

And at last the time has come
To unite again as one
To the power of the Earth
I'm calling
Crossing bridges in the sky
On a journey to renew my life
Shaman take my hand

[Perpetual Change]

PixelDream, don't you think you should wait and see what the actual CD sounds like, as opposed to a stream or even mp3s, before trashing the mix?  I also have concerns about the sound, but I am very hopeful that the CD will sound great.  

Yeah, the original stream of OTBOA sounded pretty bad, but the official MP3 from Amazon wound up being pretty good. So no complaints here! I'm sure the legit version will sound fine.

[Jaffa]

Is the stream loading extremely slow for anyone else? If I wait a minute I get like three seconds of music.

This, unfortunately.

Initial page took five minutes to load.  And then once it did, BMU,BMD took two minutes to load.  And then once it did, it played for about ten seconds and then started loading some more.

Guess I have to wait a while longer before I'll be able to hear this properly.

[aXygnus]

You guys are overanalysing this MAJOR.

Stop spoiling others' fun ok ;_;

[tgstk2]

one thing...fuck streams.

just listen to it when you have the actual CD....

ok i admit i start listening to the CD this Monday when i saw it on a news server... i just couldn't wait no more....
so i have given it about 30 spints throughout the week and tonight will be the first time i can listen to it with the booklet.

one think about the booklet.
in the first page everobyd is thanked...and than it says ...EVERTYING ELSE: and than a name... which looks strange in a good/funny way
ok the pics you have on youtube are the pics which are also in the booklet.

now the songs.
- OTBOA great song still, but i am more listening to the other songs.
-  yes even like the intro with the electronic drums , its a great build up for the riff BMUBMD is just fucking awesome.. i love the metalish vibe through it. the scream together with the keyboard is brilliiant i love it very very much
- LNF is awesome too, i love the instrumental part which i had to listen to a dozen times to "get it"  i love the chorus, it's really awesome
- TITL is great too, very well played.very emotional
=BITS...ok the intro ..yak... i dont understand why they even thought about adding it and approving it. it's only 30 seconds but the worst of them all..
 nonetheless great number too.
-outcry awesome!!
-BAI AWESOME, most beautufl vocal lines on the album..... where hs sings....  LALA HOME....
- BTS great too...
-FFH aeseom too


i dont liek some vocal parts... where i found strange  melodies, but it is just a time issue to get it and get into it. i love the instrumental stuff, really sick and awesome. not your straight forward stuff here.  just brilliant. not being a fanboy at all, but i just love it, it's over the top, it's no holds barred, and it's doing something new within the concept. i love it than indeed JR doesn't just double JP but adds he's one lines to riffs.  it's verry progryy and some riffs are very easy going/straight forward but that's just great and gives a great contrats to all the crazy stuff going on in the album....

this is WAUY WAY WAY WAY betteer than 6doit disc 2 + 8V combined. it's in the same league as SFAM for me....
the are indeed BACK!

[PixelDream]

I could not disagree more. The mix is the best they've had since probably FII. Mangini's drums sound great. And JMX isn't really that loud.

And no offense, but you're coming across as ' "MP not on album, then I'm not buying it" *pout* '
[/quote]

Oh sorry, that was not my intention. And the best mix since FII? Haha. Did you honestly compare them already? The difference in sound quality and punch is ridiculous. FII has punch and clarity, but ADTOE sounds totally smashed like all modern metal albums. It's not even funny.

And seriously, I'm not an MP fanboy or anything. I didn't check out his new band, didn't listen to A7X, etc. I thought he was great in DT, and as many of you I didn't like some of his musical decisions as of late.

But it really seems that this group of people had a big chemistry until the very end, because this album doesn't come close to any of the other DT albums (so far.. it's fresh I know).

Maybe I should put it this way: Usually when a DT record comes out, I disappear. I'm avoiding all my other things just to listen to the new record. This record doesn't give me a DT feeling at all, it sounds forced. Believe me, I want to like it. But I'm mourning right now.

[tgstk2]

if this album doesn't feel like "home" when it comes to DT than i dont know if you ever really listened to DT.
this is a great welcome back home DT! album....it's just in your face from beginning to end...the chemistry is just WOW!
and MM's drumming is well indeed based on tracks JP made..but listen to some fill's he does or listen to the hit hat stuff he does...your gonna be mindblowed, some fills are identical to the tones of the guitar...that's just sick!

the only thing that came across as mwehh on this album is that the tempo of the heavier songs are almost the same...
there's no real...big uptempo.trashy part... you know its around 120/150 bpm..nothing 200 and up.... ahh well there's just so much to enjoy in this album.....

[ReaPsTA]

No love for Build Me Up, Break Me Down in this thread?  It's cool musically and the lyrics are surprisingly good.

Also, I'll be the one to say that Beneath the Surface was unexpectedly sad and emotionally raw.  If JP wrote that based on a personal experience, than good god.  He should be applauded for putting that out there.

[serrano]

Not yet ready to post my complete thoughts on the album. But one thing stands out for me. What a cool JP solo on LNF!! Sounds nice, refreshing.

And yes. Mangini is a BEAST.

Master Mangini  

[Metabog]

I love the mix. And, without trying to sounding arrogant, I think I have a good idea of what makes a good mix since I have a degree in sound and music technology, and working on a second one. This is the way I've always wanted the drums to sound like, not constantly in your face and with a bit of audible reverb on the snare. The bass is perfect and punchy. It could be mastered less aggressively, but what do you expect these days, this is the new standard and it's not going away. We are pretty much ordered to master this way if we work on a piece of music in the industry, because unfortunately if we don't it sounds like crap when you listen to it head to head with other current albums.

I don't think it's a 'step back' to classic DT ilke I&W, but rather a further step on the SC/BCSL direction, only better now and 'actually good' without Mike Portnoy's frankly bothersome influence. I approached the last couple albums with a "let's see what silly things Dream Theater did this time" mentality. This time it feels like a "serious" release, at least for me. There were no songs where I laughed out loud while sync-listening with my friends (unlike both SC and BCSL where there were moments where we collectively said "hahahahh wtf, DT is over, alright let's go listen to Opeth".

Overall I'll give it a 8/10. It's not QUITE as good as I wished it would be, but it's at least on par with ToT, just not quite up to SDOIT/SFAM levels for me. Those albums are timeless, and they sound like they came from a completely different band with a more mature mindset. But it's definitely a step up from SC and a hell of a step up from BCSL. I genuinely love listening to it.  

[serrano]

No love for Build Me Up, Break Me Down in this thread?  It's cool musically and the lyrics are surprisingly good.

I actually like it. Nice tune for a single. Catchy but not cheesy. Can not avoid it, chorus sticks in my head.

[tgstk2]

just a reminder..... none of the DT albums  where instant classics or marked timeless the first day they came out...that just happens over time.

[reneranucci]

Well I was just kidding, but it would be cool to find a reference to the recent Miami Heat disappointment in a DT album.

[ddtonfire]

I swear JP's been watching my life for the past 4 or so months, since I can relate perfectly to the lyrics for Beneath the Surface.

[BlobVanDam]

No love for Build Me Up, Break Me Down in this thread?  It's cool musically and the lyrics are surprisingly good.

I was kind of "meh" on it at first, but after listening to it for several days straight while doing some work, it's grown on me greatly. You know what I really love? That snare pattern during the chorus that plays into the next bar, then comes back in on the 2nd note. It just really adds some power to it.

[serrano]

just a reminder..... none of the DT albums  where instant classics or marked timeless the first day they came out...that just happens over time.

this, but i disagree on SFAM. And i am starting to feel this one is not going to take that long. And BAI is instant classic!

[PixelDream]

Okay I'm going to do my best to appreciate the mix. Whatever man, I know so many people with music degrees. I myself don't have one, but I'm always paying attention to the mix and I've been working a lot with people who have music technology degrees like you. And still some of them completely hit the mark when it comes to recognizing a good mix. Not to diss you or anything, I'm glad you like the mix.

I think Porcupine Tree's stuff, Opeth's stuff, those are 'heavy' bands with lots of well mixed albums. Audioslave's debut album. RATM's debut album, Nirvana's Nevermind, Jeff Buckley's Grace, stuff that Andy Wallace mixed: I love those albums and how they sound. I can't comprehend why the new DT suddenly sounds this way.

A bigger problem is the music itself, the longer tracks seem so.. busy. Like, way too busy and uncontrolled. Never got that feeling from DT before. And the best song IMO (Breaking All Illusions) IS pretty good, but the verses are too blatantly copied from LtL. It's not the same, but you can tell they did it to recall LtL and to make people go: wow, this is classic DT. For me though, it doesn't work at all. At least not yet.

Leaving this thread now to clear my head and maybe give the album some more spins later this evening. I'm really happy everyone welcomes the record as the trumphiant return it's supposed to be though.

[aXygnus]

I swear JP's been watching my life for the past 4 or so months, since I can relate perfectly to the lyrics for Beneath the Surface.

Make that two of us.

(to be honest, the lyrics somewhat feel like some teenage drama between two friends)

[jsem]

After two listens:

OTBOA - 8.25/10
Build Me Up, Break Me Down - 6.5/10
Lost Not Forgotten - 7.25/10
This Is the Life - 7.5/10
Bridges in the Sky - 9/10
Outcry - 10/10
Far From Heaven - 7.75/10
Breaking All Illusions - 10/10
Beneath The Surface - 9/10

[chrisgazpacho]

This is what I've been waiting to hear from DT for a long time.    I know some have commented that it doesn't sound that new or fresh, but it sounds like DT, and I would rather have a nod to something sounding familiar than one of their songs sounding like some other band.

I'm a huge MP fan, one of my biggest influences, but you don't even really notice he's not on the record.  It just sounds like DT.  A lot of people are commenting on how the drums don't really stand out, but back in the day they really didn't.  Images and Words they just blended in, until you really broke them down and tried to learn them did you realize what's going on. A lot of these songs are in odd time so they appear to be bland but there is A LOT going on.  I think Mangini totally nails it on this album.  

For me the biggest stand out so far are the keys.  BIG F'ING STRINGS!    To me that's the classic DT sound, heavy, progressive, and big huge keys.  LOVE JR's sounds on this record. James sounds killer.  The last few DT records there really hasn't been anything that's made me want to sing a long.  I've already got some of these melodies in my head.

Still trying to digest all of this but here's where I would place things on a few listens.

Lost Not Forgotten (Love, love, love this song, total SFAM vibe, verse melody rules, love James' tone here, chorus is awesome, love the end chorus without the turn arounds)
Bridges in The Sky ( what a chorus, I bet this will be the show opener)
Breaking All Illusions
Outcry ( this needs more time but I love the weight of it, it's HUGE)
Build Me Up, Break Me Down (to me this a modern day Caught in a Web, love the keys, it's hooky and better than any recent straight forward DT track)
On The Backs of Angels
This is the life
Far From Heaven
Beneath the Surface (only listened once so far, but cool)

So far, I haven't been this blown away by a DT release on the initial listen since SFAM.  Very psyched!

Chris

[reneranucci]

To those who have the actual CD: how does Mangini sound? I think the drums suffer more than other instruments, and their bad quality is my only complain to the sound right now.

[ResultsMayVary]

Oh sorry, that was not my intention. And the best mix since FII? Haha. Did you honestly compare them already? The difference in sound quality and punch is ridiculous. FII has punch and clarity, but ADTOE sounds totally smashed like all modern metal albums. It's not even funny.

And seriously, I'm not an MP fanboy or anything. I didn't check out his new band, didn't listen to A7X, etc. I thought he was great in DT, and as many of you I didn't like some of his musical decisions as of late.

But it really seems that this group of people had a big chemistry until the very end, because this album doesn't come close to any of the other DT albums (so far.. it's fresh I know).

Maybe I should put it this way: Usually when a DT record comes out, I disappear. I'm avoiding all my other things just to listen to the new record. This record doesn't give me a DT feeling at all, it sounds forced. Believe me, I want to like it. But I'm mourning right now.

You're listening to a stream of the album and you're pissed about the mix and sound already? I suggest you wait until you get your CD in the mail before you will be able to criticize it properly.

And if it doesn't give you a DT feel, then I suggest you listen to I&W, SFAM, etc. because this sounds like DT. There's no way anyone can bullshit around and say this new album doesn't sound like DT at all.

I can't comprehend why the new DT suddenly sounds this way.

Hello album stream?

[ACID_FOX]

LNF is crippled by its lyrics. They're not BC&SL bad, but they're not far off.

[PixelDream]

PixelDream, don't you think you should wait and see what the actual CD sounds like, as opposed to a stream or even mp3s, before trashing the mix?  I also have concerns about the sound, but I am very hopeful that the CD will sound great.  

Fair enough, I'll stop doing that until I hear the actual CD. Though, the mix is the mix. It doesn't change that much when it's compressed. I recognize the 'mp3' sound, I know what it does, there's quality loss but it doesn't change the mix itself. But we'll see, maybe the stream is brickwalled for some magic reason. Maybe OTBOA on youtube is 'enhanced' by someone from Roadrunner. But I just can't see it happening.

[Dellers]

To those who have the actual CD: how does Mangini sound? I think the drums suffer more than other instruments, and their bad quality is my only complain to the sound right now.

Personally I think he sounds great. I don't even think the drums are too low in the mix anymore, youtube sure did its thing with OTBOA. Very comfortable sound IMO. MUCH better sound than BC&SL, where the kick and snare sounded like the same overcompressed drum.

[Metabog]

Im a little surprised at the lukewarm response here.

[ResultsMayVary]

PixelDream, don't you think you should wait and see what the actual CD sounds like, as opposed to a stream or even mp3s, before trashing the mix?  I also have concerns about the sound, but I am very hopeful that the CD will sound great.  

Fair enough, I'll stop doing that until I hear the actual CD. Though, the mix is the mix. It doesn't change that much when it's compressed. I recognize the 'mp3' sound, I know what it does, there's quality loss but it doesn't change the mix itself. But we'll see, maybe the stream is brickwalled for some magic reason. Maybe OTBOA on youtube is 'enhanced' by someone from Roadrunner. But I just can't see it happening.

I would be inclined to believe you only if OTBOA didn't improve between its stream and then official release format. The improvement between those two was very good. Another reason to infer that the album will do the same.

[tedy]

I like it  

Bridges in the sky and Breaking all illusions are my favorites right now,
followed by On the backs of angels and Outcry.
Actually, every song has something really cool in it,
and ballads are great too, especially This is the life (JLB sounds awesome).
Instrumental section in Outcry is the best one since SFAM, that part is just insane  
Overall, an amazing album that just wants to be listened over and over again.
   

[Perpetual Change]

Three songs in and I am flipping loving this  

[Chrissalix]

To those who have the actual CD: how does Mangini sound? I think the drums suffer more than other instruments, and their bad quality is my only complain to the sound right now.

Better than on the stream (obviously because the CD isn't compressed to fuck) but quieter and less in your face that Portnoy was in the mix. I guess the tradeoff is that you can hear JMX more and that's come out of the drums as the frequencies are around the same sort of area.

[serrano]

To those who have the actual CD: how does Mangini sound? I think the drums suffer more than other instruments, and their bad quality is my only complain to the sound right now.

Better than on the stream (obviously because the CD isn't compressed to fuck) but quieter and less in your face that Portnoy was in the mix. I guess the tradeoff is that you can hear JMX more and that's come out of the drums as the frequencies are around the same sort of area.

Agree, a lot more balance on this mix. Seems Mangini was not like: Is it ok so? Louder. And now? LOUDER. Aaaaand noooooow? MUCH LOUDER!!!! (at this point you only hear drums). LOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUDER

[RuRoRul]

Just listened to Outcry again (3rd or 4th time). Still awesome, instrumental really didn't appeal that much on first listen but ever since listening again I like it. Maybe my reaction at first was how everyone else felt about the instrumentals in the other DT albums - I don't know since I wasn't a fan for any new releases. I still think it could use another chorus though - before the instrumental, either before or after the "streets are paved with blood" section. If it had that, or just generally a bit higher of a main theme to crazy instrumental ratio, it could be my favourite on the album.

Edit: Looking up people's interpretation of the lyrics of Outcry (so I could reference the section correctly) I'm sure I saw two different places saying "Resistance is going tonight"... anyone with official booklet already know if that's really the lyric?  I thought it was quite obviously "Resistance is calling tonight".

[Mebert78]

I think the album is terrific.  "Bridges in the Sky" is absolutely addicting and instantly one of my favorite songs of all-time.  The chorus actually gave me a tear the first time I heard it.  It's so freaking beautiful and powerful.  "Breaking All Illusions" isn't far behind either.  Those two songs are on a level all their own, if you ask me.  Mangini fits in perfectly and kicks serious ass in some parts.  James sounds better than ever.

Also, great job on the lyrics by Petrucci.  He really channeled his feelings about the MP turn of events into some well-crafted. thought-provoking lyrics.  Not to criticze MP, but his lyrics were sometimes too direct and you could figure out the object of his criticism (ie. Never Enough).  But in this album, Petrucci molds his words in such a way that they can be broadly interpreted and applied to many situations.  Well done!

[Millais]

This is the most melody heavy DT album since SFAM, imo. Really baffled that people think there aren't melodies.

Melodically, compared to previous albums, this is an incredibly strong effort.

No love for Build Me Up, Break Me Down in this thread?  It's cool musically and the lyrics are surprisingly good.

As a single, yes it's not too bad at all. One of the weaker songs on the album but honestly it can't go lower than a 7.5/10 for me.

LNF is crippled by its lyrics. They're not BC&SL bad, but they're not far off.

what?! perhaps not the best written by DT, but they're certainly on a very interesting and current political subject.

This album gets better and better with every listen!  

[Bacong]

I'm actually really disappointed with Breaking All Illusions lyrics, and while there are some good parts, it feels so much like LTL that it's distracting.