Author Topic: How important are lyrics to you? (Read 7447 times)

FluffyMcFluffington · « **on:** August 31, 2011, 06:55:23 PM »

The title says it all, what value would you place on a song's lyrics and how would it impact your perception of that particular song? I think that my stance on this question varies. For example, I love SFAM because it is musically a beautiful concept album despite the cheesiness of the lyrics. But then again, BC&SL has songs that have amazing rhythms, but I feel are soiled by the grade-school quality lyrics ("making me uptight, no accident," "now i'm not one to soon forget, and I bet I never will," really guys?).

So, what say you?

ElliottTamer · « **Reply #1 on:** August 31, 2011, 07:19:35 PM »

Quote from: FluffyMcFluffington on August 31, 2011, 06:55:23 PM

The title says it all, what value would you place on a song's lyrics and how would it impact your perception of that particular song? I think that my stance on this question varies. For example, I love SFAM because it is musically a beautiful concept album despite the cheesiness of the lyrics. But then again, BC&SL has songs that have amazing rhythms, but I feel are soiled by the grade-school quality lyrics ("making me uptight, no accident," "now i'm not one to soon forget, and I bet I never will," really guys?).

So, what say you?

I place quite a lot of value in the lyrics. That being said, I have never really found any lyrics to be cheesy or corny or anything like that. Sure, there are lyrics which are beautiful poetry, while others are a lot more straightforward or cliche. Songs like Through Her Eyes and The Spirit Carries On hardly have the most complex/literary of lyrics, yet I love them. At the same time, Metropolis Pt. 1 has got some lyrics I never really understood, so I never cared much about them. I consider the former examples to have better lyrics than the latter, because to me they make the song more real, solid, interactive even.
But as long as I enjoy what the lyrics mean and how they are sung, I don't see any problem, regardless of the words used.

ytserush · « **Reply #2 on:** August 31, 2011, 07:23:21 PM »

VERY.

Unless there aren't any, which is almost as important as if there are.

EuropaEndlos · « **Reply #3 on:** August 31, 2011, 07:26:13 PM »

Not very much, but cringe worthy moments are noticeable and lame hooks... "You Not Me" I'm looking at you!

---

I can only speak English, I live in the US, but one of my favorite bands after FZ is Kraftwerk, and I purposely bought their albums in German because I felt that is how they were supposed to be heard... Wouldn't trade them in for the English versions if I had the option... I've heard them in English and they don't flow as nicely.

FlyingBIZKIT · « **Reply #4 on:** August 31, 2011, 07:26:49 PM »

I really like lyrics, but they aren't the main thing I focus on in a song.

FluffyMcFluffington · « **Reply #5 on:** August 31, 2011, 07:27:30 PM »

Quote from: ElliottTamer on August 31, 2011, 07:19:35 PM

Quote from: FluffyMcFluffington on August 31, 2011, 06:55:23 PM
The title says it all, what value would you place on a song's lyrics and how would it impact your perception of that particular song? I think that my stance on this question varies. For example, I love SFAM because it is musically a beautiful concept album despite the cheesiness of the lyrics. But then again, BC&SL has songs that have amazing rhythms, but I feel are soiled by the grade-school quality lyrics ("making me uptight, no accident," "now i'm not one to soon forget, and I bet I never will," really guys?).

So, what say you?

I place quite a lot of value in the lyrics. That being said, I have never really found any lyrics to be cheesy or corny or anything like that. Sure, there are lyrics which are beautiful poetry, while others are a lot more straightforward or cliche. Songs like Through Her Eyes and The Spirit Carries On hardly have the most complex/literary of lyrics, yet I love them. At the same time, Metropolis Pt. 1 has got some lyrics I never really understood, so I never cared much about them. I consider the former examples to have better lyrics than the latter, because to me they make the song more real, solid, interactive even.
But as long as I enjoy what the lyrics mean and how they are sung, I don't see any problem, regardless of the words used.

Very good answer, never heard anyone put it that way before. To me, the lyrics I don't understand are the ones that I tend to love. I can't really explain why, maybe it's because I love music that can't be interpreted to make sense in a straightforward way; the mystery is what intrigues me. That's primarily why I love I&W so much, not to mention most of Pink Floyd's songs.

theseoafs · « **Reply #6 on:** August 31, 2011, 07:36:45 PM »

I rarely pay attention to lyrics. I generally only notice them if they're really, really bad (The Count of Tuscany is the example which most readily comes to mind).

jayvee · « **Reply #7 on:** August 31, 2011, 07:41:47 PM »

Zero.

Lyrics are pretty much just placeholders.

At best they can do two things. First, they can reinforce the mood of a song, in support of the mood already set by the music itself.

If a song sounds like death and destruction, then the lyrics should be "DEAAAAATH!!! AND DESTRRRRUCCCCCTIONNNNNN!!!!!" If the song sounds like heaven parting the skies, then the lyrics should be "and then ... hea----ven ... parted ... the skie---sss ..."

Second, they let fanboys like me sing along without going dum-de-dum-de-la-la-laaaaaa!!!! If they tell a coherent story, then all the better.

Lyrics are never, in any circumstance, going to make or break a song for me. If I love a song and hate the lyrics, I just LOL. If I hate a song, I don't listen to it.

And if you held a gun to my head I wouldn't know 99% of DT's lyrics anyway. Most of the time I'm listening to the instrumental songs and/or the instrumental sections of longer songs. Instrumedley all the way, baby.

EuropaEndlos · « **Reply #8 on:** August 31, 2011, 07:44:20 PM »

^^ Interesting! Also you could just replace LaBrie with a piano to play his parts, or all singers can be replaced by a piano for the lead... Not as effective maybe but yeah...

Check out Let's Make the Water Turn Black by FZ, lot of people hate it for the silly sounding voices, but a few people I know love the instrumental version of it... To each his or her own, but damn lyrics and voices mean little to me...

FluffyMcFluffington · « **Reply #9 on:** August 31, 2011, 07:44:50 PM »

Quote from: theseoafs on August 31, 2011, 07:36:45 PM

I rarely pay attention to lyrics. I generally only notice them if they're really, really bad (The Count of Tuscany is the example which most readily comes to mind).

I can definitely relate to that. I was so impressed by TCoT's melodies that when I paid attention to the lyrics, it felt like someone just took a dump on this potential masterpiece of a song. Call me a whiner, but I have high expectations from a song that is ~20 minutes long thanks to ACoS.

FluffyMcFluffington · « **Reply #10 on:** August 31, 2011, 07:47:20 PM »

Quote from: jayvee on August 31, 2011, 07:41:47 PM

Zero.

Lyrics are pretty much just placeholders.

At best they can do two things. First, they can reinforce the mood of a song, in support of the mood already set by the music itself.

If a song sounds like death and destruction, then the lyrics should be "DEAAAAATH!!! AND DESTRRRRUCCCCCTIONNNNNN!!!!!" If the song sounds like heaven parting the skies, then the lyrics should be "and then ... hea----ven ... parted ... the skie---sss ..."

Second, they let fanboys like me sing along without going dum-de-dum-de-la-la-laaaaaa!!!! If they tell a coherent story, then all the better.

Lyrics are never, in any circumstance, going to make or break a song for me. If I love a song and hate the lyrics, I just LOL. If I hate a song, I don't listen to it.

And if you held a gun to my head I wouldn't know 99% of DT's lyrics anyway. Most of the time I'm listening to the instrumental songs and/or the instrumental sections of longer songs. Instrumedley all the way, baby.

I LOL'd and very much enjoyed this post. Thank you for your opinion.

Metrovarium · « **Reply #11 on:** August 31, 2011, 07:56:13 PM »

I like good lyrics, but I don't mind more straightforward ones like on BC&SL. However, when the lyrics are as bad as "DAY AFTER DAY, AND NIGHT AFTER NIGHT", they can affect my enjoyment of the song.

Jamesman42 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 31, 2011, 07:59:33 PM »

I'm not put off by lyrics unless they're so central and up front (i.e. DARK MASTER OF SIN, DAY AFTER DAY ughgghggh). That said, good lyrics enhance a song (mewithoutYou is a winner in that regard), whereas bad or mediocre lyrics won't lessen my enjoyment of the music or melodies.

Vajra · « **Reply #13 on:** August 31, 2011, 07:59:52 PM »

Very, very important, for many reasons. Lyrics can often heighten or decrease the experience of listening to a song for me.

For example, "These Walls" if it was simply about some vampire story like Forsaken, I'd simply consider it a very catchy song, but because the lyrics are able to convey such real and personal emotions, I find listening to the song to be a powerful experience.

Vice versa, "The Count of Tuscany" if it presented lyrics of the same literary caliber of "A Change of Seasons" the song would be a thing to behold, but because it has such extremely poor lyrics, I find myself very detached from the song despite its level of musical excellence.

Aside from all of that, I consider myself a writer, and someone who appreciates the literary ability to give insight to different aspects of life, so when lyrics are written very tastefully, I find myself not only able to enjoy the lyrics, but I can be inspired by them, and they can change my perspective on things.

I also love when a musician has the capability of writing lyrics grounded in well crafted metaphors, which allow the listener to interpret their own meaning. Usage of good imagery and tasteful vague writing can really provoke a very poetic experience.

MetropolisxPt1 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 31, 2011, 08:02:50 PM »

The music should be able to express the moods and feelings of a song, the lyrics are just another extension of conveying the same moods being established by the song.

senecadawg2 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 31, 2011, 08:04:59 PM »

Great lyrics are what separates the good from the great. That being said, I do enjoy a lot of songs with weak lyrics (TCOT)

7thHanyou · « **Reply #16 on:** August 31, 2011, 08:29:07 PM »

Personally, I can't imagine NOT paying attention to lyrics. They always have an effect on the song for me. It's part of why I find Images and Words so spectacular--not only is the music itself the best in their catalog, the lyrics are really poetic and paint beautiful pictures, even when they're difficult to interpret.

The role the lyrics play might vary on a song-to-song basis, but there's no question in my mind that sloppy lyrics can hurt a song. They've certainly prevented me from enjoying The Count of Tuscany much.

j · « **Reply #17 on:** August 31, 2011, 08:49:08 PM »

If the lyrics aren't great, it usually doesn't matter much to me, as long as they don't stand out as terrible (like TBOT...Jesus): that's when they'll detract from my enjoyment of the song.

However, if the lyrics are excellent, it can also add to my enjoyment of the song.

-J

BlobVanDam · « **Reply #18 on:** August 31, 2011, 11:19:30 PM »

I don't care much about lyrics. Bad lyrics are not a deal breaker, and rarely have great lyrics affected my opinion of a song. The only time I care are when the lyrics do not fit well with the music, and therefore aren't phrased too well. But that's more of a compositional issue than a lyrical one.
I've always felt that Dream Theater create more mood and emotion through their music and performance than through their lyrics, so that's what I find most important.

userx · « **Reply #19 on:** September 01, 2011, 05:35:22 AM »

Quote from: jayvee on August 31, 2011, 07:41:47 PM

Zero.

Lyrics are pretty much just placeholders.

At best they can do two things. First, they can reinforce the mood of a song, in support of the mood already set by the music itself.

If a song sounds like death and destruction, then the lyrics should be "DEAAAAATH!!! AND DESTRRRRUCCCCCTIONNNNNN!!!!!" If the song sounds like heaven parting the skies, then the lyrics should be "and then ... hea----ven ... parted ... the skie---sss ..."

Second, they let fanboys like me sing along without going dum-de-dum-de-la-la-laaaaaa!!!! If they tell a coherent story, then all the better.

Lyrics are never, in any circumstance, going to make or break a song for me. If I love a song and hate the lyrics, I just LOL. If I hate a song, I don't listen to it.

And if you held a gun to my head I wouldn't know 99% of DT's lyrics anyway. Most of the time I'm listening to the instrumental songs and/or the instrumental sections of longer songs. Instrumedley all the way, baby.

you're the first person whose view of lyrics even remotely resembles mine.

I used to write a lot of lyrics when I was in high school and that was before I learned to play the guitar. then I learned to play the guitar and wrote lyrics to my song that was composed as an instrumental piece. I put the song on repeat (actually I put 5-6seconds long parts on repeat) and spent a few hours fitting the best possible words and lines to what I felt when listening to the music. It turned out that were the best lyrics I had ever written and by far. I burnt my old lyrics as I realized that the music is where all the emotional juice is and lyrics can only heighten the experience.

However, as I started composing only instrumental pieces I also realized that lyrics or vocals for that matter really do matter and matter a lot in a way that they really do heighten the experience considerably if they fit the music, if the words and sentences are crafted in such a way that they sound fresh interesting and emotional and most importantly if they are sung the right way = pleasant voice singing along to a beautiful melody - and here's the tricky part - I believe that the vocal melody should also be composed as a melodic part of an additional instrument, i.e. I add another melody line on the guitar which is then sung instead of played. this way vocals can have a stronger impact playing the role of an instrument and at the same time saying beautiful words....

Liberation · « **Reply #20 on:** September 01, 2011, 05:52:41 AM »

Very important.

Except I'm not as ridiculously picky about them as a lot of people are and a funny sounding sentence doesn't mean a song is pure evil and should be burned for me. (E.g. ANTR and The Count of Tuscany.)

Zydar · « **Reply #21 on:** September 01, 2011, 05:55:34 AM »

Not that important at all. I listen mainly to the music and the melodies. If the lyrics are great then it's a bonus. That said: I don't really like instrumental music, I want a singer to sing something to the music.

This applies to all bands for me, it's not just for DT.

Elite · « **Reply #22 on:** September 01, 2011, 06:18:40 AM »

I think lyrics are an important aspect of the song if they are there. If the writer decides to put a story to his music, then that is his choice, just like when he would leave it instrumental and let the music do the talking. Think about classical music, vocal music was only used in church, while all other music was purely instrumental and had a story to tell.

That being said, I don't think a song can be ruined by bad lyrics, I listen to them, yes, but never really on first listen. I'm all about the music. The lyrics are just words to a melody that's a part of the music. If the lyrics are 'bad' (as far as you can actually judge that, like music), it doesn't really matter to me, as long as the melodic line on which these lyrics are built serve a good purpose.

However, if the lyrics represent a story of a feeling, I think that it's instrumental (lolpun) that this is heard back in the music as well.

wolfking · « **Reply #23 on:** September 01, 2011, 06:19:19 AM »

I really don't care much about the lyrics. It's all about the music and melodies.

lordxizor · « **Reply #24 on:** September 01, 2011, 06:26:12 AM »

Quote from: theseoafs on August 31, 2011, 07:36:45 PM

I rarely pay attention to lyrics. I generally only notice them if they're really, really bad

Basically this.

Mladen · « **Reply #25 on:** September 01, 2011, 06:38:36 AM »

The lyrics are rarely the first thing I notice when listening to a song, but I still enjoy good lyrics once I get into them. When they're bad, I'm either extremely bothered, or I just decide not to care.

YtseJamittaja · « **Reply #26 on:** September 01, 2011, 06:51:18 AM »

Quote from: BlobVanDam on August 31, 2011, 11:19:30 PM

I don't care much about lyrics. Bad lyrics are not a deal breaker, and rarely have great lyrics affected my opinion of a song. The only time I care are when the lyrics do not fit well with the music, and therefore aren't phrased too well. But that's more of a compositional issue than a lyrical one.
I've always felt that Dream Theater create more mood and emotion through their music and performance than through their lyrics, so that's what I find most important.

My opinion exactly !!!!!

krands85 · « **Reply #27 on:** September 01, 2011, 07:54:09 AM »

Quote from: j on August 31, 2011, 08:49:08 PM

If the lyrics aren't great, it usually doesn't matter much to me, as long as they don't stand out as terrible (like TBOT...Jesus): that's when they'll detract from my enjoyment of the song.

However, if the lyrics are excellent, it can also add to my enjoyment of the song.

-J

I agree with this and TBOT is also the one song where the lyrics make me dislike the song.

The music is always far more important to me and I enjoy listening to a lot of instrumental music (post-rock/post-metal).

Metropolis is my favourite song, but I've no idea what the lyrics mean

However, The Count of Tuscany is also one of my favourite songs and it's pretty straightforward, with lyrics people often hate - but they don't detract from the song for me. I do tend to prefer less literal lyrics in general though. I think it's quite cool when a songs lyrics can be interpreted several different ways by different people.

There are also plenty of sections of songs where I still have no idea what James is singing, despite listening to it loads of times

Like J said though, good lyrics can also add to my enjoyment of songs sometimes, eg. A Change of Seasons

Jaq · « **Reply #28 on:** September 01, 2011, 08:15:39 AM »

I love well written lyrics, don't get me wrong, but I have rarely ever listened to a song and said "you know what, the music is awesome but I can't stand the song because of the lyrics." I simply think "god, that was a dreadful lyric." A long career of listening to cheesy power metal and gory death metal will do that to you.

Dublagent66 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 01, 2011, 08:19:52 AM »

I don't really care about lyrics persay (content, context, etc) but they have to flow well with the music. If the music is bad, well then the lyrics don't matter anyway.

Dellers · « **Reply #30 on:** September 01, 2011, 08:19:56 AM »

To me lyrics are nice to have so that the vocalist doesn't just sing nothing. Apart from that, I don't care about lyrics at all. To me music is music, and I couldn't tell what any DT song is about, maybe with the exception of The Spirit Carries On. If I were interested in lyrical stuff, I'd read a book or a poem. I like Dream Theater because it's good music played and sung by good musicians, and I dislike Bob Dylan because he's a terrible musician and I don't listen to his lyrics anyway (and since lyrics is usually poetically written, I wouldn't get the point anyway - my mind is made for music, economics and physics - concrete and to the point stuff), and they are kinda his thing. I'm sure a lot of music would be destroyed if I got into the lyrics, but luckily I don't care. Political lyrics, fantasy lyrics, love lyrics, ass lyrics ( like Parliament Funkadelic) - I don't mind.

darkshot · « **Reply #31 on:** September 01, 2011, 08:25:38 AM »

If the vocal melodies are good I could care less what the words say, they could be singing jibberish as long as it sounds good. For me the importance goes like instrumentation > melodies > lyrics. If the lyrics tell a great story or convey a moving message for me, then that is basically a bonus.

I'm a big fan of Japanese rock and metal bands such as X-Japan, and most of their songs are not in English, I could care less. The songs seem to flow better in the original language it was written in of course, because in English they usually have to shoehorn words in to make them fit the rhythm. But the songs are still a blast even though I don't understand a word they are saying.

Oh and there's also bands like Agalloch who do the growling vocals a lot, and I can't stand that style of singing, but I ignore it and enjoy the instrumental parts beneath the vocals I don't like. My favorite album of theirs is The Mantle because they threw in some clean vocals from time to time, instead of growling non stop.

Jirpo · « **Reply #32 on:** September 01, 2011, 08:31:56 AM »

If its got bad lyrics I don't let it ruin the song, but good lyrics makes the song a lot better in my eyes.

hefdaddy42 · « **Reply #33 on:** September 01, 2011, 09:49:29 AM »

Generally, lyrics are fairly important for me. But they are less so for me in DT's music, since they are obviously less so for DT themselves. Let's face it, they aren't Springsteen or Dylan. The main focuse of their music is the music, and the lyrics are afterthoughts.

However, when great lyrics come along, they make a good song better, and a great song outstanding. This is one big reason why Awake is my favorite DT album - it is the one album where the quality of the lyrics virtually matches the quality of the music.

Of course, bad lyrics can also devalue what is otherwise a good or great song. That is why I don't have The Count of Tuscany ranked quite as high as some other people do. The music is amazing, but the lyrics bring it down a notch or two.

Jaffa · « **Reply #34 on:** September 01, 2011, 10:45:50 AM »

Lyrics can make a song for me, but they can’t break a song for me.

For specific examples, I love Misunderstood. I would probably love it a lot less if it had different lyrics. And, I love The Count of Tuscany. I would probably love it a lot more if it had great lyrics, but the fact that its lyrics aren’t great doesn’t stop me from loving it.

I guess to me, in a lot of cases, it’s more about the way the words are sung than what the words actually are. Like, in TCoT, I don't particularly like the lyrics, but I do like the vocal melodies, so I'm capable of pretty much ignoring the lyrics. Or like darkshot said about Japanese music, even though I may not be able to figure out what the heck the words mean, the vocals can still be catchy and awesome.

I suppose when a song has bad lyrics I pretty much train myself to ignore their quality and sing along anyway, as long as the vocal melody is sing-along-able. But then when a song has great lyrics, I can still focus on them and love the song all the more for their presence.

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Author Topic: How important are lyrics to you? (Read 7447 times)