Author Topic: A discussion between me and my uncle...  (Read 1865 times)

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Offline berrege

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A discussion between me and my uncle...
« on: August 18, 2011, 02:38:35 PM »
Hello all,

I've got a discussion with my uncle about which music is the most complex and about who are the best musicians (technically with their instrument). All I ask is to fill in this questionnaire:

-Are you a musician? If so, which instrument(s) do you play and for how long?

-Rank the following bands from non-complex to complex:
Yes/Pink Floyd/Transatlantic/Dream Theater

-Rank them from easy to play to hard to play (I know, almost the same question)

-Rank them from good musicians to better musicians (like I said, pure technically with their instrument)


Thanks ;D


Offline Jamesman42

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Re: A discussion between me and my uncle...
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2011, 02:44:41 PM »
I'm a musician, but don't know Yes at all to rank them. Guitar for 7 years, bass for 6 years, keyboards for 6 years, all of which were on and off practice-wise, but I would get serious about practicing a lot when I was on.

Complexity (least to greatest)

PF
TA
DT

Easy to hardest

PF
TA
DT

Good to best musicians:

PF
DT = TA

Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: A discussion between me and my uncle...
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2011, 02:49:30 PM »
1. I've played guitar for 3 years, violin for 4 years, and harmonica for 8 years.
2. Pink Floyd, Transatlantic, Yes, Dream Theater
3. Same, I guess. Never played Transatlantic, but I think they'd be around the same spot.
4. (I was specific with this one)
Guitar: David, Roine, Steve, John (it's hard to order Steve and John because they both have their specialties, but I went John)
Drums: Nick, Bill, Mike (just barely)
Bass: Roger, John/Pete (I think they're really close in their respective styles), Chris
Keyboards: Richard, Neal, Jordan, Rick
Vocals: Jon, Any PF vocalist, Roine, Neal James
I did technical like you wanted, but if it were my preferred it'd be different. :P

Offline jsem

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Re: A discussion between me and my uncle...
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2011, 02:56:41 PM »
1. Saxophone for 7 years, piano for 6 years, guitar for three years. I guess also drums for about half a year.
2. Pink Floyd, Transatlantic, Yes, Dream THeater
3. Same
4. (worst to best)
Keyboards: Richard, Neal, Jordan, Rick
Drums: Nick, Bill, Mike
Bass: Roger, Pete, John, Chris
Guitar: David, Roine, Steve, John
I won't try rate the vocalists...

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: A discussion between me and my uncle...
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2011, 06:07:16 PM »
I played Piano for five years, and have been playing bass for two years now

1. Yes, Pink Floyd, Dream Theater, Transatlantic
2. Pink Floyd, Yes, can't play either DT or TA because lack of 6-string bass/tabs.  I guess I'd put DT last (most technical)
3. PF, TA, Yes, DT

Why does any of this matter, though?

Offline robwebster

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Re: A discussion between me and my uncle...
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2011, 08:54:32 PM »
- Are you a musician? If so, which instrument(s) do you play and for how long?
Bass for seven years, keyboard for anywhere between two and fifteen years. I have a very complex relationship with the keyboard.

- Rank the following bands from non-complex to complex:
Pink Floyd, Transatlantic, Yes, Dream Theater.

- Rank them from easy to play to hard to play (I know, almost the same question)
Same answer, too.

- Rank them from good musicians to better musicians (like I said, pure technically with their instrument)
And again.

Offline orcus116

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Re: A discussion between me and my uncle...
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2011, 09:01:39 PM »
1. Saxophone for 7 years

I challenge you to a duel, sir.

Offline Dillster22

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Re: A discussion between me and my uncle...
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2011, 10:31:14 PM »
Yes. Drums, 7 months.

Complexity:
Transatlantic - Pink Floyd - Yes - Dream Theater

Easyness:
Pink Floyd - Transatlantic - Yes - Dream Theater

Goodness:
Yes - Transatlantic - Pink Floyd - Dream Theater

Offline El Barto

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Re: A discussion between me and my uncle...
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2011, 10:52:27 PM »
Interesting that you're choosing to judge them strictly on technical ability.  You get weird anomalies that way.  Richard Wright was the least technically proficient of that group, but the best keyboardist of the four by far. 

Anyhoo,  not a musician, so take it for what it's worth.

Complexity:  Floyd, TA, Yes,  DT
Easiness,  I'm not qualified to judge
Goodness,  PF/Transatlantic split depending on the instrument.  Yes/DT, the same.
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Offline berrege

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Re: A discussion between me and my uncle...
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2011, 01:30:31 AM »
Thanks for answering.

Well, my uncle claimed that Pink Floyd is more complex than Transatlantic and that Pink Floyd are better musicians (technically). He said that Pink Floyd could play Transatlantic on one hand, because it's easier to play. I didn't agree with all this.

Looks like I've won ;D

Offline Sketchy

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Re: A discussion between me and my uncle...
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2011, 05:24:16 AM »
Yes, but a bit lazy at times. Keys - 10 years, bass - 5 years and I'm intending to take up Cello and Guzheng in the next month or so too.

Complexity:
Hmm... I only have five or six yes albums compared to all PF, most DT and two of the three TA but I'd say:
PF, Yes, TA, DT

Although, the way Pink Floyd albums from DSofM to The Wall are structured may increase their complexity a little over Yes (such as the chord sequence for Breathe being reprised for Breathe (Reprise) and Any Colour You Like (albeit transposed down a tone), the way that Breathe (Reprise) ends on the same chord that Great Gig In The Sky starts on, etc, and the way that the middle bit of Hey You appears (slightly altered) as a leitmotif throughout The Wall (for example the vocal melodies of the three parts of Another Brick In The Wall), but the frequent reprises of sections in other song sections or other songs entirely for TA and DT make those to higher in complexity both in terms of song and album structure than the other two.

Easiness:
I'll admit I don't often try to learn other people's songs. I probably should but oh well.

PF, TA/Yes, DT

I'm not sure whether TA or Yes would be easier to learn. They seem on similar level, although Chris Squire's lines are moderately to extremely insane at times. Anyone who's listened to Roundabout knows exactly what I mean. DT? Sod that. I'm not even going to attempt to learn their stuff for the moment. There's no damn way I could do that. Pink Floyd? Lots of parts give the illusion of something difficult, but for all its lush orchestration (and I am not PF bashing, as they are one of my absolute favourite bands) the individual parts are really quite simple.

Certainly for the time, Roger Waters's basslines are not complex. They're highly nice, but they are quite simple and very playable, however they are much more melodic than a lot of mainstream basslines at the moment. Gilmour's playing, rhythmically not hard, and the solos are not hideously technical, but man is there emotion there (answer: yes there is). Wright's playing: Not difficult technically, but suits the music well, few solos though, but the few there are are great (compare to Richard Barbieri). Nick Mason: Solid drummer. Not fast. Not technical, but that guy keeps a rhythm, even when he loses a stick halfway through One Of These Days (anyone who's seen Live At Pompeii will not forget this one).

Musical Tecnicality:

Keyboards: Pink Floyd, TA, Moore DT, Sherinian DT, Yes, Rudess DT

That solo on Tales From Topographic Oceans. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

Guitar: Pink Floyd, TA, Yes, DT

Guitar is Petrucci's bitch. 'nuff said.

Bass: Pink Floyd, TA, Yes, DT

Chris Squire definitely does impressive stuff, but I'm not sure he is actually more capable than Myung, after all, the speed of the TDOE bass solo is scary, plus the harmonics and tapping techniques Myung uses sometimes, I think Myung is probably actually technically superior, he just doesn't play up front all the time.

Drums: Pink Floyd, Yes, DT/TA, NEW DT

As it's been said before, Mangini is more techinically proficient than Portnoy, but Portnoy vs. Bruford? Hmm... Bruford is immense, and White is also very capable, but as it was said about when Bruford was touring with Genesis, Bruford did seem to be having to concentrate really hard on the timing of some of Collins's parts (I can't remember where this is said, I'll have to dig out all my Genesis collection, including some documentary DVD, but it's in there somewhere), I can't imagine Portnoy would be having to count the timing too much, though.
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Offline Sketchy

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Re: A discussion between me and my uncle...
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2011, 05:26:07 AM »
Yes, but a bit lazy at times. Keys - 10 years, bass - 5 years and I'm intending to take up Cello and Guzheng in the next month or so too.

Complexity:
Hmm... I only have five or six yes albums compared to all PF, most DT and two of the three TA but I'd say:
PF, Yes, TA, DT

Although, the way Pink Floyd albums from DSofM to The Wall are structured may increase their complexity a little over Yes (such as the chord sequence for Breathe being reprised for Breathe (Reprise) and Any Colour You Like (albeit transposed down a tone), the way that Breathe (Reprise) ends on the same chord that Great Gig In The Sky starts on, etc, and the way that the middle bit of Hey You appears (slightly altered) as a leitmotif throughout The Wall (for example the vocal melodies of the three parts of Another Brick In The Wall), but the frequent reprises of sections in other song sections or other songs entirely for TA and DT make those to higher in complexity both in terms of song and album structure than the other two.

Easiness:
I'll admit I don't often try to learn other people's songs. I probably should but oh well.

PF, TA/Yes, DT

I'm not sure whether TA or Yes would be easier to learn. They seem on similar level, although Chris Squire's lines are moderately to extremely insane at times. Anyone who's listened to Roundabout knows exactly what I mean. DT? Sod that. I'm not even going to attempt to learn their stuff for the moment. There's no damn way I could do that. Pink Floyd? Lots of parts give the illusion of something difficult, but for all its lush orchestration (and I am not PF bashing, as they are one of my absolute favourite bands) the individual parts are really quite simple.

Certainly for the time, Roger Waters's basslines are not complex. They're highly nice, but they are quite simple and very playable, however they are much more melodic than a lot of mainstream basslines at the moment. Gilmour's playing, rhythmically not hard, and the solos are not hideously technical, but man is there emotion there (answer: yes there is). Wright's playing: Not difficult technically, but suits the music well, few solos though, but the few there are are great (compare to Richard Barbieri). Nick Mason: Solid drummer. Not fast. Not technical, but that guy keeps a rhythm, even when he loses a stick halfway through One Of These Days (anyone who's seen Live At Pompeii will not forget this one).

Musical Tecnicality:

Keyboards: Pink Floyd, TA, Moore DT, Sherinian DT, Yes, Rudess DT

That solo on Tales From Topographic Oceans. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan

Guitar: Pink Floyd, TA, Yes, DT

Guitar is Petrucci's bitch. 'nuff said.

Bass: Pink Floyd, TA, Yes, DT

Chris Squire definitely does impressive stuff, but I'm not sure he is actually more capable than Myung, after all, the speed of the TDOE bass solo is scary, plus the harmonics and tapping techniques Myung uses sometimes, I think Myung is probably actually technically superior, he just doesn't play up front all the time.

Drums: Pink Floyd, Yes, DT/TA, NEW DT

As it's been said before, Mangini is more techinically proficient than Portnoy, but Portnoy vs. Bruford? Hmm... Bruford is immense, and White is also very capable, but as it was said about when Bruford was touring with Genesis, Bruford did seem to be having to concentrate really hard on the timing of some of Collins's parts (I can't remember where this is said, I'll have to dig out all my Genesis collection, including some documentary DVD, but it's in there somewhere), I can't imagine Portnoy would be having to count the timing too much, though.

Edit: And lest I forget...

Trombone: Yes/DT/TA, Pink Floyd

Yes. Richard Wright was the best trombonist out of all the members of each group. It's on Relics
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Offline berrege

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Re: A discussion between me and my uncle...
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2011, 01:24:29 PM »
Nice, thanks

Offline jsem

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Re: A discussion between me and my uncle...
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2011, 01:39:37 PM »
1. Saxophone for 7 years

I challenge you to a duel, sir.
Lol. I'm guessing you've been at it for far longer. Was it you that posted a pic in the pic thread of you playing the sax in hippie clothing like 30 years ago? Or was that someone else.

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: A discussion between me and my uncle...
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2011, 03:08:47 PM »
Interesting that you're choosing to judge them strictly on technical ability.  You get weird anomalies that way.  Richard Wright was the least technically proficient of that group, but the best keyboardist of the four by far. 

Agreed.  Which is why I'm a bit baffled by the premise of the thread.  If I ranked the players based on who I think is best it would be

Vox: James LaBrie
Guitar: John Petrucci
Drums: Mike Portnoy
Bass: Pete Trewavas
Keys: Richard Wright

So in two of those categories technicality is in line with my preference, but Trewavas, LaBrie, and Wright are not technically the best at their instrument, but I think they play/sing the best out of all of them.

As for your Uncle's argument, its not TOO farfetched to think that.  Richard Wright in his younger days might have been able to match Morse, David Gilmour might have been able to match Roine, Roger Waters could probably play Trewavas' parts, and I like Gilmour as a singer more, but Mason could not keep up with Portnoy in a million years.  Don't think any of them could play Yes or DT's parts though.

Offline orcus116

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Re: A discussion between me and my uncle...
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2011, 02:02:37 AM »
1. Saxophone for 7 years

I challenge you to a duel, sir.
Lol. I'm guessing you've been at it for far longer. Was it you that posted a pic in the pic thread of you playing the sax in hippie clothing like 30 years ago? Or was that someone else.

Haha nah not me. Started playing 13 or so years ago but been out of practice a few years. Classically trained but roots in jazz, you?

Offline jsem

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Re: A discussion between me and my uncle...
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2011, 02:20:28 AM »
I've been practicing more than ever lately. Only discovered what practice does like two years ago and been on a steep improvement ever since. Not classically trained, roots in jazz and big band. Started out with the alto, also picked up the baritone about three years ago.