Author Topic: A lot on my mind about God/religion  (Read 19437 times)

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Offline Jamesman42

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #35 on: August 18, 2011, 06:35:03 PM »
I'm not totally sure what to make of Major's post.

@CS: Nice post...it's true that things can come and go in phases.

@reo: the whole loving others thing is something I am not particularly good at (actually, who is?), and I shy away from it. A lot.

@j: I always wondered if He values sincerity vs. blind faith. I'm coming to terms with that in this I guess.

Also, I know life is not always good. That's not my problem...the good and bad are a given, and any worldview has an explanation for it.

As for the drinking, dude, if you were surrounded by the types of people I was for years, the guilt of them remotely finding out about it would rip you up a bit inside in the sense that you would feel like a hypocrite, and that you "let others down" in private, even if they never found out.

But, that's not much of the point now, at least it seems like it's not the point. Those things I am allowing are more of the natural consequence of me walking into a different mindset. Sorry if that wasn't clear, because I am still searching and seeking and thinking and all that.

Offline j

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #36 on: August 18, 2011, 06:47:49 PM »
As for the drinking, dude, if you were surrounded by the types of people I was for years, the guilt of them remotely finding out about it would rip you up a bit inside in the sense that you would feel like a hypocrite, and that you "let others down" in private, even if they never found out.

I understand.  But the way they feel about it shouldn't matter, even if you all profess to be Christians.  You answer to God, period; you're not responsible for them "being disappointed in you" or whatever.  Did you ever think about *why* they demonize drinking so harshly?  In my estimation, that has no basis in Christian teaching, so I guess I'm not sure why it would bother you?

-J

Offline Jamesman42

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2011, 06:56:18 PM »
I can answer that directly by saying that it was due to some Scriptures saying pretty clearly "You should be sober if you are a leader in the church," and people saw me as their music worship leader, so I put those two ideas together and banned myself from drinking. Also, it stemmed from not letting others stumble by the things you do, which comes from another Bible verse...and again, since I believed at that time that drinking was a no-no, I didn't want to make others stumble. So in essence, it was for their "good" I did that from what Scripture teaches. And that itself stems from me trying to please God by doing well for others (loving others).

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2011, 07:01:02 PM »
Jamesman, what you're going through is basically how I live day-to-day in my faith. After some time, and a lot of reading and thinking and discussing, I've just learned to come to terms with the fact that God simply didn't wire me to be the hardcore type of Christian who can spout off what "the Bible really says about...". Ultimately, though, despite my skepticisms, when I read the Bible for my own sake I found that I still thought it was relevant to my life and who I was as a person, and I DO make an honest effort to let that show in all of my actions. If living "in light of Christ's existence" isn't enough for some Christians who'd have me show a greater ritualistic devotion or conform my understandings of the texts and what God decided to place in my heart about them to their own, then fuck 'em.

As for the behavior thing, I think you just have got to admit that the Bible doesn't specifically prepare anyone for how to deal with several of the biggest moral issues of the modern world.  What doesn't help is that so many American Christians are at such a contradictory conflict between their own callings as a Christian and their allegiance to the Republican Party. Perhaps you'd do best to forget all of it, and just try and behave as you would like to be known as behaving.

Offline Jamesman42

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2011, 07:02:56 PM »
Yeah, I hope y'all can realize that I grew up thinking the Bible was THE authority on everything and things were black and white. That's why some of this is making this point in my life very...weird

Offline bosk1

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #40 on: August 18, 2011, 07:07:09 PM »
Good posts by WW, Barto, lordxizor, and DTVT.

I QUOTED WW!!!  :rant:
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Offline yeshaberto

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2011, 07:14:35 PM »
having kids has been the most enlightening experience for me in my understanding of God. 
I have learned that God allows room for error (ie. doubt, periods of confusion, wandering off the path, etc) in the same way that a parent (at least a healthy one) doesn't pounce on their child for every mistake they make.  There are times where my kids throw a "fit" and I don't instantly come down on them.  If it persists I might, but there is "room for error" or a better word is grace.
I just wanted to remind you, James, that just because people may fail to show you grace during this time doesn't necessarily mean that God has given up on you.

Offline j

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #42 on: August 18, 2011, 07:23:04 PM »
I can answer that directly by saying that it was due to some Scriptures saying pretty clearly "You should be sober if you are a leader in the church," and people saw me as their music worship leader, so I put those two ideas together and banned myself from drinking. Also, it stemmed from not letting others stumble by the things you do, which comes from another Bible verse...and again, since I believed at that time that drinking was a no-no, I didn't want to make others stumble. So in essence, it was for their "good" I did that from what Scripture teaches. And that itself stems from me trying to please God by doing well for others (loving others).

Yeah I wasn't questioning your intentions, I'm sure they were good.  But I would question your interpretation of the bible's take on alcohol.  You may be a leader in your church, but nobody's telling you to become an alcoholic or show up to church buzzed or anything.  There are a lot of verses that speak positively of it, and Jesus was known to drink a little if I recall.  As for causing yourself or others to stumble, I'd say that there's a big difference between having a couple of beers when you go out versus getting hammered all the time and acting like an irresponsible ass.  Moderation, son.

Good posts by WW, Barto, lordxizor, and DTVT.

I QUOTED WW!!!  :rant:

I thought we were past this thing where you need constant validation from me.  *SIGH* fine, bosk1 you too. :biggrin:

-J

Offline Jamesman42

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #43 on: August 18, 2011, 07:25:07 PM »
Well, in any case, I am not a leader anymore on my own terms so it doesn't matter. That was my thinking in the past, remember.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2011, 07:43:13 PM »
Over the past few months, I've stepped away from the attempt to be a good Christian. I feel like it has been a somewhat fruitless attempt to live life. A lot of time, I felt like such a hypocrite when people would say "James is a good Christian man" or "He is a man of God." Uh, I dunno, it was weird hearing those things because I know I am not perfect (and I'm sure those people know that too, but still).
 First things first, I have never, and will never, altered my personal behaviours and lifestyle to fit the ideals of a religion, and I generally believe that it is a poor choice to attempt to do so unless you very, very strongly believe that such changes are necessary for a betterment of the self, and not just because your religion says so.  In my mind ( and I have been a pagan since I was about 12 or so, so bear that in mind when considering my point of view), it is much better to explore the multitude of belief systems out there and discover for yourself which one best suits you and your personal view of morality and spirituality, rather then trying to fit yourself into a predetermined set of theology and dogma, because chances are, you will feel like a square peg trying to squeeze into a round hole.  Personally, I cannot feel justified in being a member of a religion unless really do believe in it's basic tenets and ethics, and it always made me feel very uncomfortable as a child growing up catholic when I knew I certainly did not agree with the vast majority of the dogma and practices of the church, let alone those of Christianity as a whole.  Hypocrisy is something I absolutely cannot stand, least of all in myself, so I realized very early on in my life that it would be best for me to seek out a spiritual structure that better fit my world view.  I understand your reluctance to disappoint those of your spiritual community, but your life is yours, no one else can tell you what you need to feel spiritually fulfilled and comfortable with your choice of faith.

So, in order to let things level out and not be such a burden in my mind and life, I let go of a lot of connections and hanging out with people within the Christian community. Not completely cut off, but mostly text messages and facebook chatter. A lot of them, quite frankly, are annoying on some level. Maybe it's just my personality and how, in real life, I tend to have a few close friends and a crapload of acquaintances. I allowed myself to be able to drink again without this sense of guilt within. Same with swearing, fapping, and other things in general. Pretty much stopped reading my Bible and praying.

As I said, one of the major reasons I never really felt comfortable with Christianity was because I didn't really buy into much of their practices and beliefs.  I never saw was was so wrong with drinking, swearing, tattoos or sex.  As far as I was concerned, that was all just part of the human experience.  Why be here on this earth if we are not meant to enjoy it?  I don't feel guilty about indulging my flesh, so long as I am responsible in my actions.  The way I see it, it is better to give in to your animal side every now and again then to deny it entirely, and just letting all those feelings of lust and indulgence stew unfulfilled in the back of yout soul.  In my mind, no good could come from that sort of self-denial.  

As for my spiritual needs, I found that it is generally best to have a very pragmatic and utilitarian approach to faith. If you don't want to read the bible or pray to your God, then don't.  You should only do such things when you actually want to do so, not because feel you need to do so because you faith compels it.  I'm not much for ceremony and holidays, and I only pray and make sacrifices when I feel I need the assistance of the Gods at that particular time in my life.  You should follow your instincts in these matters and fulfill your spiritual needs when you feel the time is right for them, rather then attempting to stuff yourself full of religion on a regular basis.  That is the fastest way to get sick of religion, and it is the first step to loosing yourself spiritually altogether.  I know some people who are really big into the pomp and circumstance many religions offer, and if it works for them, good.  If it doesn't work for you, perhaps you should consider taking a more stripped down and practical approach to your faith.

As for reading spiritual texts, those fulfill two uses in my life.  Firstly, I may, on occasion, read from some such texts (in my case, usually the Norse Eddas and Sagas) when I feel in need to spiritual guidance or inspiration, particularly when I am at a point in my life when I feel lost and confused.  Most religions have some sort of parable or story that may help guide your through tough times in your life.  The second reason, is because I genuinely enjoy reading those stories.  I would not be comfortable with my choice of faith if I did not actually enjoy it.  Religion doesn't have to be a chore.  You should read your bible because you genuinely feel the desire to do so.  If you don't, then don't force yourself.  As I said above, forcing religion upon yourself will most likely drive you away from it.  It that doesn't fit in with the views of your spiritual group, it doesn't matter.  Take faith at your own pace, not that of others.

Also, I'm not sure where I stand as far as declaring a religion is concerned. I believe in God still, and that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. I dunno, I cannot shake that if I wanted to. But everything else, and I mean everything, is out of my mind. I just don't wanna think about it. I feel burned out on it. I feel like I don't need it. And currently I am enjoying life a lot.

Still, having said that, I have this sense of agnosticism propping up, questioning things. But maybe it's not agnosticism and I am being retarded calling it that. But I am starting to wonder if God really exists. Flirting with the idea I suppose.

Anywho, I wanted to post this here because there are some open-minded people (Christian and non-Christian alike) that I feel very keen to talking to and generally feel welcome to share things with. I guess anonymity helps, but the community on the whole is great for support/advice/general "being there for each other"-ness.

(There is more I could write but I don't feel like it)

I guess what I am getting at here in my whole post is that you should figure out what things are most important to you in all matter spiritual, the things that are essential to your religious view of the world, and go from there.  Find faith for yourself, and don't worry about falling in with the "wrong" one.  From what you say, it sounds like you still at least believe in a heavenly father figure (which is nearly universal) and the divinity of Christ (which is distinctly Christian).  Even among the multitude of Christian denominations, that gives you a lot of flexibility with discovering a doctrine that suits you.  I encourage you to go find yours.  And don't concern yourself with merely finding your destination.  Enjoy the journey, and absorb as much as you can about the different faiths you sample along the way.  I know my views are very different from yours, and I apologize if you have difficulty trying to relate to them, but I was attempting to parallel myself to you to demonstrate that sometimes the best thing to do is to just abandon any pretense of what is correct from a theological point of view, and just find what feels right.  Spirituality should be a thing of instinct, not conscious thought.  You cannot change what you believe to be true.  Just remember that religion is the the medium in which you connect to the divine, not divinity itself.  It is a very human thing, and it is what you make of it, so make it your own!  ;)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 04:21:01 AM by The Dark Master »

Offline William Wallace

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #45 on: August 18, 2011, 09:26:14 PM »

As for the drinking, dude, if you were surrounded by the types of people I was for years, the guilt of them remotely finding out about it would rip you up a bit inside in the sense that you would feel like a hypocrite, and that you "let others down" in private, even if they never found out.
You need new friends, better informed ones. If you're in a position of leadership, I fully understand the need for discretion. But the idea that you are a heretic in need of judgement because you drink socially is lamer than an Eagles record.

Offline Ħ

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #46 on: August 18, 2011, 11:48:09 PM »
James, I don't really know, but I think the Bible teaches that we 1) need to keep renewing our minds and 2) be around other Christians constantly.  From what it sounds like, it sounds like you haven't been doing those things, so naturally you are slipping away.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline 73109

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #47 on: August 18, 2011, 11:56:18 PM »
It actually sounds like he is renewing his mind, and being around too many Christians.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2011, 12:22:48 AM »
When, exactly, did drinking become un-Christian like? I this a lot from Christians, especially in America. But last I checked, even from a fundie view it's apparent that Jesus went out of his was to make sure there was alcohol available for him and his disciples on numerous occasions, going as far back as the story where he actually turns water into wine because the wedding guests have already drank it all.

Offline Ħ

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2011, 12:37:09 AM »
When, exactly, did drinking become un-Christian like? I this a lot from Christians, especially in America. But last I checked, even from a fundie view it's apparent that Jesus went out of his was to make sure there was alcohol available for him and his disciples on numerous occasions, going as far back as the story where he actually turns water into wine because the wedding guests have already drank it all.

There are definitely passages that condemn drunkenness.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2011, 01:00:45 AM »
And there are passages that sanctify drinking.

Being a drunkard and drinking (even too much) from time to time are nowhere near the same thing, though. The way some Christians seem to shun the idea of even touching alcohol while quietly passing judgment in those who do like having more than one or two drinks has always seemed weird to me. That's what I'm getting at here. I know some people personally who start quietly condemning people the minute they see a drink in their hands, and that's kinda what it sounds like James is going through.

Offline Ħ

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2011, 01:14:38 AM »
I agree that drinking itself is not condemned.  But consider Paul's advice:

"12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any."
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2011, 01:16:56 AM »
I went through the same thing not long ago too, James.  I don't know how I managed to come out of it.  I do know that I was ready to leave it all behind.  

I think we really tend to make things a lot more difficult than need be.  The only I'd say is keep your spirit close to God, even if you feel 'unworthy'.

Offline j

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #53 on: August 19, 2011, 01:23:14 AM »
I agree that drinking itself is not condemned.  But consider Paul's advice:

"12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any."

Sounds to me like he's condemning vices, the abuse of something that isn't in and of itself bad.  Nobody's arguing against that.

-J

Offline Ħ

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2011, 01:24:11 AM »
I agree that drinking itself is not condemned.  But consider Paul's advice:

"12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any."
Sounds to me like he's condemning vices, the abuse of something that isn't in and of itself bad.  Nobody's arguing against that.

-J
Yeah I know.  That's why I'm saying, even though drinking isn't a sin in of itself, it's not a bad idea to avoid it, or at least be very wary if you do drink.
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline Rathma

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2011, 01:38:33 AM »
I bet you are now posting on 5/8 forums as well.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #56 on: August 19, 2011, 01:54:56 AM »
I agree that drinking itself is not condemned.  But consider Paul's advice:

"12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any."
Sounds to me like he's condemning vices, the abuse of something that isn't in and of itself bad.  Nobody's arguing against that.

-J
Yeah I know.  That's why I'm saying, even though drinking isn't a sin in of itself, it's not a bad idea to avoid it, or at least be very wary if you do drink.

Not a bad idea, but not necessary one either. Holding impossible or ridiculously-founded ideas about alcohol (and, for example, masturbation) over someone isn't empowering them over the substance-- it's letting it have more and more power over the person. Eventually, things like alcohol and masturbation wind up having so much power over religious people that they reach a crisis point where they realize that they're no longer able to reconcile themselves as human beings with the person their church/religious community requires them to be on the surface. It's sad.

Offline AndyDT

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #57 on: August 19, 2011, 06:44:28 AM »
Over the past few months, I've stepped away from the attempt to be a good Christian. I feel like it has been a somewhat fruitless attempt to live life. A lot of time, I felt like such a hypocrite when people would say "James is a good Christian man" or "He is a man of God." Uh, I dunno, it was weird hearing those things because I know I am not perfect (and I'm sure those people know that too, but still).

So, in order to let things level out and not be such a burden in my mind and life, I let go of a lot of connections and hanging out with people within the Christian community. Not completely cut off, but mostly text messages and facebook chatter. A lot of them, quite frankly, are annoying on some level. Maybe it's just my personality and how, in real life, I tend to have a few close friends and a crapload of acquaintances. I allowed myself to be able to drink again without this sense of guilt within. Same with swearing, fapping, and other things in general. Pretty much stopped reading my Bible and praying.
Masturbation and not talking to God. There's two things which I know disconnect me from Source.

Offline bosk1

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #58 on: August 19, 2011, 08:41:17 AM »
(1) Given that your posting style is basicially "I'm Mister I'll-Post-What-I-Want-Without-Caring-Whose-Feelings-Might-Be-Hurt-By-It-As-Long-As-I-Think-It's-Funny,"

Whose feelings have I hurt? Or, how I have been like that? I don't believe I cross that line at all. If I do, I myself apologize. But that is news to me.

Okay, let me just start over.  I second most of what WW said in his initial response in the thread.  And if you want to give me a call sometime or post on SSF to have a more direct discussion, I'd love to do that as well.

Also, I'm not trying to be judgmental about the people you mentioned, but as WW observed, it really does seem that some of them may be very misinformed, and in their zeal to say and do what's right, that misinformation leads them to say and do things that actually has the effect of pushing people away rather than helping.  Unfortunately, an undercurrent I get from a lot of statements like what you expressed is that people are part of churches where a lot of what they teach is almost more of a "social gospel," for lack of a better term, than what the Bible actually teaches about God and our place on the earth and our relationship with him.  One problem that stems from that is you don't really get a solid enough picture of what real Christianity is, and when life doesn't live up to the promises and descriptions that church is teaching, people who look at life with a critical eye easily (and rightfully) can get disillusioned.  Another is that when people like you question, the people on the other end of the question, rather than giving a well-reasoned answer, just freak out and don't give you anything intellectually satisfying because they don't have a solid enough foundation to draw on to give a satisfying answer.  And that also causes disillusionment and drives people away.  It is a depressing problem.

James, I don't know for sure where you want to be in all of this.  If as some suggested, you want to just do your own thing, enjoy life, and try to find what suits you rather than what suits God, that's your prerogative, and I wish you the best and hope you find happiness in that.  If your desire is to mold yourself to what God wants you to be, then I agree in part with WW that it really sounds like you aren't around the right people to do that and be fulfilled.  And not that it's a fix-all, but I recommended Psalm 73 because I feel its a good starting point to recognize that you aren't the first to feel the things you are feeling, that it's natural and has been around forever, and there is a solution.  But, again, I'm not sure where you want to be in all this, and that's really what it boils down to.  Nobody on this forum (or anywhere else) can tell you what you should do or how you should live your life.  If your desire is to serve God and try to find fulfillment in that, I can certainly offer what limited insight I have on how to do that.  If it is to go your own way and try to find fulfillment in that, I can wish you well, but can't really do much more than that. 
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Offline patrolboat1

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #59 on: August 19, 2011, 07:03:54 PM »
you're making the right decision op. you only get one life and as long as you keep yourself in check there should be nothing holding you back from living your life the way you really want to

Offline Jamesman42

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #60 on: August 19, 2011, 07:55:38 PM »
Ya know the drinking thing isn't THAT big a deal once I give this more thought. It's more about my faith in God now. So moving on...

James, I don't really know, but I think the Bible teaches that we 1) need to keep renewing our minds and 2) be around other Christians constantly.  From what it sounds like, it sounds like you haven't been doing those things, so naturally you are slipping away.


I've never really understood that passage.


I went through the same thing not long ago too, James.  I don't know how I managed to come out of it.  I do know that I was ready to leave it all behind. 

I think we really tend to make things a lot more difficult than need be.  The only I'd say is keep your spirit close to God, even if you feel 'unworthy'.

It's not feeling unworthy. If anything, it feels almost worthless to stay in this religion, in this faith. But hey, maybe we have both gone through the same thing.

I bet you are now posting on 5/8 forums as well.

haha oh man


@bosk: yeah, I know some of this stuff on my mind has to do with people and their social gospel (awesome way to describe it, by the way).  Where I want to find myself? I want to find truth. I am doubting things about God as well actually, though I still believe He exists. But even that is being questioned. I guess, I don't know where I want to be but to feel right in my choices.


you're making the right decision op. you only get one life and as long as you keep yourself in check there should be nothing holding you back from living your life the way you really want to

Thanks Mr. G

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #61 on: August 20, 2011, 03:51:53 AM »
Over the past few months, I've stepped away from the attempt to be a good Christian. I feel like it has been a somewhat fruitless attempt to live life. A lot of time, I felt like such a hypocrite when people would say "James is a good Christian man" or "He is a man of God." Uh, I dunno, it was weird hearing those things because I know I am not perfect (and I'm sure those people know that too, but still).

So, in order to let things level out and not be such a burden in my mind and life, I let go of a lot of connections and hanging out with people within the Christian community. Not completely cut off, but mostly text messages and facebook chatter. A lot of them, quite frankly, are annoying on some level. Maybe it's just my personality and how, in real life, I tend to have a few close friends and a crapload of acquaintances. I allowed myself to be able to drink again without this sense of guilt within. Same with swearing, fapping, and other things in general. Pretty much stopped reading my Bible and praying.

Also, I'm not sure where I stand as far as declaring a religion is concerned. I believe in God still, and that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. I dunno, I cannot shake that if I wanted to. But everything else, and I mean everything, is out of my mind. I just don't wanna think about it. I feel burned out on it. I feel like I don't need it. And currently I am enjoying life a lot.

Still, having said that, I have this sense of agnosticism propping up, questioning things. But maybe it's not agnosticism and I am being retarded calling it that. But I am starting to wonder if God really exists. Flirting with the idea I suppose.

Anywho, I wanted to post this here because there are some open-minded people (Christian and non-Christian alike) that I feel very keen to talking to and generally feel welcome to share things with. I guess anonymity helps, but the community on the whole is great for support/advice/general "being there for each other"-ness.

(There is more I could write but I don't feel like it)
I'm not sure what to say, because it almost seems like you've already made up your mind in many respects.  I will just say that I agree with WW's first response.  I went through a really deep time of doubt when I started college.  That's what drove me to learn as much as I could about religion (not just Christianity, but even the very concept of religion, and comparison of religions).  That period was a real period of discovery for me, and set me on my current path, in which I have a deep devotion to God, and an intimate relationship with him.  Hopefully things will work out for you.

Let me know if I can help in any way. 
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline rumborak

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #62 on: August 20, 2011, 11:57:03 AM »
Yeah, this seems to be one of those things where you can't help either way without coming across as trying to pull you towards one's side.
My comment would be, being an atheist/agnostic makes for very fulfilled lives (despite of what some people may tell you), and even if you don't end up that way you will probably be a vastly more enlightened Christian than most people who never seriously questioned what they got told. So whatever the outcome, it's probably all good. As with a lot of things, it's all about the way, not the destination.

rumborak
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Offline Omega

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #63 on: August 20, 2011, 02:07:48 PM »
If you don't mind me asking: what are your reasons for not believing in God? Forgive me if this comes across as hostile; I ask simply out of curiosity. I find that most reasons atheists give for their lack of belief on God are too often either shallow or emotional. Too many peoples are too easily tricked by shallow, emotional or pseudo-logical "arguments" provided by Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens and heir ilk.

And sorry for doing the whole "first post" creeper thing to you... :)

Well, I know I'm not the first person you wanted to respond but, HERE I AM!!!

Anyways, first, the joke post:

Welcome Jamesman to the dark side. The weather is fine.

Now, for real:

Almost every thinking man goes through what you are going through now. It is common amongst smart, educated, and cool fellas to question religion at some point or another. Some find that their quest leads them deeper into their faith, and other find the opposite. All I can say is thinking about things/life in general helped for me. Granted, you and I are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum. Just recently, I've made the change from agnosticism/wishy washy to full blown atheism (let's call it that for practical purposes), and it feels good to think the way I am now. I know odds are you don't want to follow that path, but what I can say is...continue following the path you are on. You will make the decision that you want to make, and you will most likely feel all the better for it. No matter which path you take. Thinking is a good thing, and whether your though process ends in atheism/agnosticism or theism, that's the decision that is right for you.

Wow...what a shitty, disjointed, crappy post...
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Offline Adami

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #64 on: August 20, 2011, 02:10:47 PM »
If you don't mind me asking: what are your reasons for not believing in God? Forgive me if this comes across as hostile; I ask simply out of curiosity. I find that most reasons atheists give for their lack of belief on God are too often either shallow or emotional. Too many peoples are too easily tricked by shallow, emotional or pseudo-logical "arguments" provided by Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens and heir ilk.


Welcome to the board! :)

However, just for your info, statements like this usually won't be met with warm reception.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2011, 02:14:57 PM »
I find that most reasons atheists give for their lack of belief on God are too often either shallow or emotional. Too many peoples are too easily tricked by shallow, emotional or pseudo-logical "arguments" provided by Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens and heir ilk.

I hope you do realize that that holds for the other side as well. I would actually say that the majority of people on both sides use rather ad-hoc arguments to justify a stance they really just kinda "slid into".

rumborak
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Omega

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2011, 02:51:26 PM »
If you don't mind me asking: what are your reasons for not believing in God? Forgive me if this comes across as hostile; I ask simply out of curiosity. I find that most reasons atheists give for their lack of belief on God are too often either shallow or emotional. Too many peoples are too easily tricked by shallow, emotional or pseudo-logical "arguments" provided by Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens and heir ilk.


Welcome to the board! :)

However, just for your info, statements like this usually won't be met with warm reception.

Yes I accept that and I must apologize if I have offended anyone (hopefully I haven't so soon :)).
Thanks for the welcome, Adami. I feel we may become close friends in this forum. Or maybe it's just the meth I've been taking all day. No way to know for sure.
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Offline Adami

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2011, 02:54:10 PM »
Alrighty then.
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Offline Omega

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #68 on: August 20, 2011, 03:01:47 PM »
I find that most reasons atheists give for their lack of belief on God are too often either shallow or emotional. Too many peoples are too easily tricked by shallow, emotional or pseudo-logical "arguments" provided by Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens and heir ilk.

I hope you do realize that that holds for the other side as well. I would actually say that the majority of people on both sides use rather ad-hoc arguments to justify a stance they really just kinda "slid into".

rumborak

I find that most reasons atheists give for their lack of belief on God are too often either shallow or emotional. Too many peoples are too easily tricked by shallow, emotional or pseudo-logical "arguments" provided by Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens and heir ilk.

I hope you do realize that that holds for the other side as well. I would actually say that the majority of people on both sides use rather ad-hoc arguments to justify a stance they really just kinda "slid into".

rumborak

Absolutely. I agree with you fully. In fact the ignorance of many fellow theists makes me feel so very desperate at times as well. There are countless intelligent ways to defend a theistic position, yet too many believers are so utterly unprepared to do so that they make theists look lie a bunch of book-thumping illiterates who believe in God simply "because".
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Offline Zook

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Re: A lot on my mind about God/religion
« Reply #69 on: August 20, 2011, 05:16:28 PM »
Good for you, James. :tup