A lot on my mind about God/religion

[Quadrochosis]

Deist sounds too Western for me. I don't like Western approaches to spirituality, they're too black and white for me. I prefer the Eastern methods and views honestly.

I honestly wouldn't describe myself as anything, I don't really try to fit into a class or group of religious thought.

I think I see what your saying. You are not sure but you are leaning to some sort of mysticism.

not really, but ok

[El JoNNo]

Deist sounds too Western for me. I don't like Western approaches to spirituality, they're too black and white for me. I prefer the Eastern methods and views honestly.

I honestly wouldn't describe myself as anything, I don't really try to fit into a class or group of religious thought.

I think I see what your saying. You are not sure but you are leaning to some sort of mysticism.

not really, but ok

You know what is easier, just say "no you are wrong and i don't want to explain myself". That way I will stop asking and you will stop being vague when (not) answering.

[Quadrochosis]

my entire point is that its unexplainable

[snapple]

I didn't read the entire thread. But I'll post my $0.02.

I am a Christian. Two of my older brothers are walk and talk Christians. I'm a walk Christian. My fiancée is the same way. We choose to just act like Christians instead of talk like Christians. And it isn't so much that we are trying to be Christians, we are trying to do what we believe is right and wrong. As absurd as it may seem by today's standards, she and I have been together for almost 5 years and we don't have sex. I swear like a sailor. I drink to massive excess on occasion. But I know what I believe, as it seems you do as well. And that's the thing I always cling onto. I KNOW what I believe. Nothing is going to change that. I spent three or four years as a teenager trying to be a "good Christian", and people would notice that "oh, look at Christian, he's such an example!" (Yes, my name is Christian). I grew to resent that. So I started acting out. Long story short, I'm 6 years older than I was then.

I guess what I'm trying to say is follow what you know is right and wrong. It is not right to steal, lie, cheat and so on. Help other people for the sake of helping. God wants you to do helpful and Godly things because YOU want to. If you feel you are acting a certain way because it is the way YOU want to act, it is a Godly thing. It is blessed and you will see that. If you feel pressured to do something, then reconsider doing it.

[Jamesman42]

I have some clarity in thinking right now, so I'm gonna ramble.

One thing I have noticed over the past few years is that I have become increasingly agitated by life in general. I used to be a very calm and passive guy, enjoying reading and chilling. Nowadays, I get angry at everyone and everything. I dunno why. Part of me feels free that because I'm no longer trying to conform to all these rules, I feel safe to be me again. I feel like being a Christian was screwing up my head, honestly.

I took a drive today, and for the first time in many years, it was a peaceful drive. I get pissed off to no end when people pull in front of me when they should wait, or slow drivers, or just bad drivers in general.And on that drive, a lot of people took advantage of me by pulling out in front me, forcing me to slow down because they are a bad driver. But I didn't rage. I realized that life isn't about me. Unsure at this point, but I didn't feel so bogged down.

This is an example. I have been beating myself up for a long time and it's probably only helped regress any maturity. I know I annoy people at times (here and IRL), but I used to be the guy everyone liked. I think that religion made me think I had to be a different person. I dunno if I am explaining this as well as what I am thinking, but yeah.

[hefdaddy42]

A real relationship of faith should free you to be who you are, not cram you into some weird mold.  Developing a peace by realizing that life isn't about you should be a part of your faith, not a byproduct of leaving your faith behind.

Confusing, you are. 

[Jamesman42]

Well, my bad then. 

[contest_sanity]

A real relationship of faith should free you to be who you are, not cram you into some weird mold.  Developing a peace by realizing that life isn't about you should be a part of your faith, not a byproduct of leaving your faith behind.

[Zook]

The meaning of life is to give life meaning. That is all.

[hefdaddy42]

Well, my bad then. 

I didn't mean to imply a fault on your part necessarily, but rather a confusion on my part.

[reo73]

I have some clarity in thinking right now, so I'm gonna ramble.

One thing I have noticed over the past few years is that I have become increasingly agitated by life in general. I used to be a very calm and passive guy, enjoying reading and chilling. Nowadays, I get angry at everyone and everything. I dunno why. Part of me feels free that because I'm no longer trying to conform to all these rules, I feel safe to be me again. I feel like being a Christian was screwing up my head, honestly.

I took a drive today, and for the first time in many years, it was a peaceful drive. I get pissed off to no end when people pull in front of me when they should wait, or slow drivers, or just bad drivers in general.And on that drive, a lot of people took advantage of me by pulling out in front me, forcing me to slow down because they are a bad driver. But I didn't rage. I realized that life isn't about me. Unsure at this point, but I didn't feel so bogged down.

This is an example. I have been beating myself up for a long time and it's probably only helped regress any maturity. I know I annoy people at times (here and IRL), but I used to be the guy everyone liked. I think that religion made me think I had to be a different person. I dunno if I am explaining this as well as what I am thinking, but yeah.

I'm not so sure it is "religion" that made you feel agitated and not at peace as much as the people you were in community with that made you feel judged???  There really is nothing about Christianity in and of itself that should make you feel this way unless you have come to an intellectual decision that God is not truth or that you really just would rather live in the ways of self-indulgence.  Otherwise Christian community is typically a place to find encouragement, fellowship, understanding, and forgiveness...not condemnation.

[El JoNNo]

A real relationship of faith should free you to be who you are, not cram you into some weird mold.  Developing a peace by realizing that life isn't about you should be a part of your faith, not a byproduct of leaving your faith behind.

Confusing, you are. 

I couldn't disagree more, but that would be a topic for another thread. I can see it turning into a very lengthy conversation.

[snapple]

Most Christian communities suck. They focus too much on being Christians instead of who they are. I'm involved with my church; I play softball and I watch toddlers/new borns in our nursery. I can't stand crying babies and I'm incredibly awkward playing with toddlers. But it brings me out of my comfort zone. Toddlers and new borns can't judge me for my long hair (short now) or my tattoo. I hang out with these kids every Sunday because I see how my life should be through them. It's hard to explain, but Hef is right. If you have faith, you ought to be at peace. I know it isn't easy.

I got my tattoo at a time when I felt like God had betrayed me. It is Hebrews 13:5b. "Never will I leave you, Never will I forsake you". Until now, only my fiancée knows this; but I need that reminder several times a day. I have screwed up enough things in my life that I need that reminder that God is always with me.

You have explained your driving and in your first post and I see we have a lot in common. I know this sounds silly, but you just have to not get upset. You need to worry about you and your faith. It really doesn't matter what other people think about you. If you've lost your faith I am sorry and I will pray for you. If you're struggling with it, I'll continue to pray anyway. Being a Christian isn't going to church and doing Christian things. It's the way you choose to live your life, which should be Christ-like. God ought to be the center of your life.

If I have to suggest anything - try giving your time to something you wouldn't be comfortable doing normally. Just so you know that it isn't YOU but it's God working through you.

[Quadrochosis]

We talk too much, we talk in circles
Till we're all spinning round reaching for rings on this merry-go-round
Scenery spins, we call it progress
I've seen this all before
When all's said done we wake up on the floor

We set sail with no fixed star in sight
We drive by Braille and candle light

We're building towers with no foundation
Just stacking stone on stone
Whatever it takes, Mix our mortar with bones
True progress means
matching the world to the vision in our heads
We always change the vision instead   

[Durg]

We talk too much, we talk in circles
Till we're all spinning round reaching for rings on this merry-go-round
Scenery spins, we call it progress
I've seen this all before
When all's said done we wake up on the floor

We set sail with no fixed star in sight
We drive by Braille and candle light

We're building towers with no foundation
Just stacking stone on stone
Whatever it takes, Mix our mortar with bones
True progress means
matching the world to the vision in our heads
We always change the vision instead   

Great song!


I'm late to the party here but I want to add my $.02.

Hey James, I've read many of your contributions to the forums for a while now and I have always sensed that you were not fully sure about your faith.  Even when you were trying to sound that way.  I went through almost exactly what hefdaddy described back on page 1 (i think).  Many of us grew up in a very legalistic religion.  I grew up in a conservative Baptist church in Arkansas.  You can only imagine.  No drinking, no dancing, no card playing, no music with a beat, blah, blah, blah.  I had to come to my own place of letting those legalistic influences go.  That's an uncomfortable place to be.  It took being mentored by some very wise and close friends to help me understand how God wants us to live as opposed to the modern day pharisees think we should live. 

Also, like you, I have been a praise team leader.   At two different churches in fact.  The first time I did it I got VERY burned out.  For me it was all about the music and the process and not about letting God use us.  I was way too wrapped up in making awesome music and not really focused on worship.  I was way too worried about what people thought about me and my music.  It was all about me! 

I also sense that you got very burned out as well.  Maybe not for the same reasons but burned out none the less.  Leading a praise team can be a grind, especially when you're having doubts about your faith.  Your current journey maybe just needs to happen and the burn out was the catalyst that got it going.  Sometimes we have to live in the wilderness like Moses to come to a place where God can really use us.  I suspect that once you have had time to be away from the church and your legalistic friends that you'll start to have more clarity. 

I do suggest that you seek out some wise people that you trust.  I'm sure there is a wise Christian in your life that understands what you're going through.  If not.  I pray that you find one (in person and not just on a message board).

The path is narrow but it's impossible if your not sure why your on that path. 

[William Wallace]

I have some clarity in thinking right now, so I'm gonna ramble.

One thing I have noticed over the past few years is that I have become increasingly agitated by life in general. I used to be a very calm and passive guy, enjoying reading and chilling. Nowadays, I get angry at everyone and everything. I dunno why. Part of me feels free that because I'm no longer trying to conform to all these rules, I feel safe to be me again. I feel like being a Christian was screwing up my head, honestly.

I took a drive today, and for the first time in many years, it was a peaceful drive. I get pissed off to no end when people pull in front of me when they should wait, or slow drivers, or just bad drivers in general.And on that drive, a lot of people took advantage of me by pulling out in front me, forcing me to slow down because they are a bad driver. But I didn't rage. I realized that life isn't about me. Unsure at this point, but I didn't feel so bogged down.

This is an example. I have been beating myself up for a long time and it's probably only helped regress any maturity. I know I annoy people at times (here and IRL), but I used to be the guy everyone liked. I think that religion made me think I had to be a different person. I dunno if I am explaining this as well as what I am thinking, but yeah.

I'm not so sure it is "religion" that made you feel agitated and not at peace as much as the people you were in community with that made you feel judged???  There really is nothing about Christianity in and of itself that should make you feel this way unless you have come to an intellectual decision that God is not truth or that you really just would rather live in the ways of self-indulgence.  Otherwise Christian community is typically a place to find encouragement, fellowship, understanding, and forgiveness...not condemnation.

I was about to post these sentiments. Well said.

I'm just an anonymous dude on the internet, James, so take this with a grain of salt, but it seems to me that you're letting your emotions dictate your view of reality. It's not healthy and one of the rare things agnostics and atheists get right about Christians - that their belief in God is shallow. Their best buddy Jesus makes them feel good and that's all that matters. I think you're doing the same thing but in the opposite direction.

[Jamesman42]

Hey James, I've read many of your contributions to the forums for a while now and I have always sensed that you were not fully sure about your faith.  Even when you were trying to sound that way. 

Interesting. How did you gauge this?

I'm just an anonymous dude on the internet, James, so take this with a grain of salt, but it seems to me that you're letting your emotions dictate your view of reality. It's not healthy and one of the rare things agnostics and atheists get right about Christians - that their belief in God is shallow. Their best buddy Jesus makes them feel good and that's all that matters. I think you're doing the same thing but in the opposite direction.

I don't think that's correct. In fact, I feel like I see life clearer than before.

[Durg]

Hey James, I've read many of your contributions to the forums for a while now and I have always sensed that you were not fully sure about your faith.  Even when you were trying to sound that way. 

Interesting. How did you gauge this?

I wish I could give you specific instances to answer this question but I can't remember any.  It's just one of those things that I noted in my mind and filed it away.  Maybe it was just a hunch.  I just can't remember.  Sometimes I just sense stuff like this and many times I'm right.

[kirksnosehair]

To the OP:  You should look into Secular Humanism (link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism )

In short, this is what Secular Humanism is about:

Humanism is a democratic and ethical life stance, which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives. It stands for the building of a more humane society through an ethic based on human and other natural values in the spirit of reason and free inquiry through human capabilities. It is not theistic, and it does not accept supernatural views of reality.

Although, technically, I consider myself Agnostic, I find the idea of Secular Humanism very attractive.  Many people who have struggled to find a spiritual path in life have ended up embracing a secular humanistic lifestyle.  Good luck to you on your journey and thank you very much for sharing so openly.

[the Catfishman]

I don't think that's correct. In fact, I feel like I see life clearer than before.

I had the same thing when I decided to go full blown atheist (although it was never such a big jump as with your situation), life made much more sense.. which was an excellent feeling and it only got better and better when I started researching/reading stuff that was kinda not-done being Christian.

[William Wallace]

I don't think that's correct. In fact, I feel like I see life clearer than before.

I had the same thing when I decided to go full blown atheist (although it was never such a big jump as with your situation), life made much more sense.. which was an excellent feeling and it only got better and better when I started researching/reading stuff that was kinda not-done being Christian.

That's cool, and If it works for him as well all the better. But everything he's posted has centered around his emotions, how his outlook makes him feel.

[reo73]

Here's a question that is on my mind since reading through all this.

Jamesman, are you straying from believing in God because you don't 'feel' like believing in him or because you have actual intellectual doubts about his existence?

[hefdaddy42]

I'm just an anonymous dude on the internet, James, so take this with a grain of salt, but it seems to me that you're letting your emotions dictate your view of reality. It's not healthy and one of the rare things agnostics and atheists get right about Christians - that their belief in God is shallow. Their best buddy Jesus makes them feel good and that's all that matters. I think you're doing the same thing but in the opposite direction.

I don't think that's correct. In fact, I feel like I see life clearer than before.

I'm sure you do feel that way.  But I would suspect that you also felt like you could see life clearer than before whenever you were most passionate about your faith.

Of course, I could be wrong.  But personally, "seeing life clearly" isn't something that I equate with my faith life.  But that's what works for me, you may not work the same way.  I'm pretty weird.

[GuineaPig]

Here's a question that is on my mind since reading through all this.

Jamesman, are you straying from believing in God because you don't 'feel' like believing in him or because you have actual intellectual doubts about his existence?

When did he say he started doubting his belief?

[reo73]

Here's a question that is on my mind since reading through all this.

Jamesman, are you straying from believing in God because you don't 'feel' like believing in him or because you have actual intellectual doubts about his existence?

When did he say he started doubting his belief?

How about his first post.  I quote..."But I am starting to wonder if God really exists."

[ZBomber]

James, this is just how I view things, and I'm not trying to change your way of seeing things, but maybe you'll be able to relate to some of this... I went to catholic school my whole life and grew up in a catholic household, so I've spent my fair share of time thinking about this kind of stuff.

My view on god, Jesus, religion, and anything pertaining to those things is... it doesn't really matter. Personally, I find it pretty easy to tell the difference between right and wrong. That doesn't mean I always makes the right choice, but my intuition plays a key role in most of my decisions. I don't need a book or someone to tell me how to be a good person. I feel that you, too, have a good intuition as to what makes someone a good person. So I suggest just focusing on that. Don't concentrate on trying to please god, or understand god, or being a good christian. If there is a god, and you think that your actions are generally those of a good person... does it really matter? Would god punish you for being a good person, but unsure of things that we can't possibily even wrap our minds around? Personally, I think spending a sunday morning helping out at a soup kitchen or doing something charitable is a lot more worthwhile than spending your morning in a church hearing the same lectures you've heard your whole life.

I think religions serve a purpose in giving some people a reason to live. But what is wrong with just experiencing life and not worrying what happens after life? Again, your actions aren't always going to be the right thing, but if you are generally a kind, caring person, does it make sense to you that you'd be burning in a pit of fire for eternity? It doesn't to me. So the alternative, I guess, is either heaven or nothing. If there is a heaven, then that is great. If there isn't, then you were simply nice to people and made an impact on their life. Seems like a win/win situation to me.

Sorry... these threads always put me in a rambling kind of mood.  That is why I generally don't post over on this side.

[j]

James, this is just how I view things, and I'm not trying to change your way of seeing things, but maybe you'll be able to relate to some of this... I went to catholic school my whole life and grew up in a catholic household, so I've spent my fair share of time thinking about this kind of stuff.

My view on god, Jesus, religion, and anything pertaining to those things is... it doesn't really matter. Personally, I find it pretty easy to tell the difference between right and wrong. That doesn't mean I always makes the right choice, but my intuition plays a key role in most of my decisions. I don't need a book or someone to tell me how to be a good person. I feel that you, too, have a good intuition as to what makes someone a good person. So I suggest just focusing on that. Don't concentrate on trying to please god, or understand god, or being a good christian. If there is a god, and you think that your actions are generally those of a good person... does it really matter? Would god punish you for being a good person, but unsure of things that we can't possibily even wrap our minds around? Personally, I think spending a sunday morning helping out at a soup kitchen or doing something charitable is a lot more worthwhile than spending your morning in a church hearing the same lectures you've heard your whole life.

I think religions serve a purpose in giving some people a reason to live. But what is wrong with just experiencing life and not worrying what happens after life? Again, your actions aren't always going to be the right thing, but if you are generally a kind, caring person, does it make sense to you that you'd be burning in a pit of fire for eternity? It doesn't to me. So the alternative, I guess, is either heaven or nothing. If there is a heaven, then that is great. If there isn't, then you were simply nice to people and made an impact on their life. Seems like a win/win situation to me.

Sorry... these threads always put me in a rambling kind of mood.  That is why I generally don't post over on this side.

You should, that was a good post broheisen.

-J

[Jamesman42]

I've come to the conclusion that I am agnostic now. I don't know what to believe anymore. Open to whatever. I guess this was inevitable.

I'm choosing only to tell this forum and not anyone in real life yet. I feel like people will give me disappointed words/feelings. I've seen it happen to one of my very good friends who used to be a very strong Christian, and it became obvious that she wasn't anymore, and people talked and seemed really disappointed in that she lost her faith/belief.

Luckily, I don't hang out with much of them anymore, and the ones I do are understanding people. I never thought I'd come to this conclusion, but it happened.

[El JoNNo]

Good for you to have the courage to confront your beliefs 

You already know this forum is here for when you can't talk to people face to face.

[Jamesman42]

I am very grateful for your guys' openness

[MasterShakezula]

That is good that you've been able to figure out just what exactly you feel makes the world make sense in your mind; that is major thing religion (or lack thereof) is for, I think.

If your feel guilty about your change in views, I'd say it's understandable, however I don't believe a change in view is something to be ashamed of at all; ones mind and their beliefs and POV in this world are malleable, open to change; we're adaptive creatures who transform to meet the challenges currently facing us in life, and sometimes a major change in belief ends up being a part of trying to better understand and comprehend oneself and their environment.

(I'd be saying the same thing if you'd gone from agnostic to Christian, BTW)

[73109]

Congrats dude. It takes balls not only to change religious views after so much thought, but it takes even bigger balls to move from the majority to the minority. Good for you.

Now, if I may ask, when you say agnostic, do you mean, "I have no idea," or "There is no way we can know?"

[Fuzzboy]

I'd consider myself agnostic and I'd say "I don't know, i don't care and I get bored talking about it"

[Jamesman42]

I have no idea, with some of "unsure how we can know for sure"

[73109]

Ah, just wondering, because the book I am currently reading briefly talks about the two different forms of agnosticism, so I was just wondering which type you were.