RR Record Contract

[hefdaddy42]

@Kev: Indeed, and that's another reason that making a comparison between the two is meaningless.

@Reap: That's about double albums, it says nothing about bonus discs or special editions.

The RIAA system is purely a measurement of discs sold.

I'm pretty sure that bonus discs aren't counted.  6DOIT is counted twice, but should be the only DT album to be so counted.

[ariich]

@Kev: Indeed, and that's another reason that making a comparison between the two is meaningless.

@Reap: That's about double albums, it says nothing about bonus discs or special editions.

The RIAA system is purely a measurement of discs sold.

I'm pretty sure that bonus discs aren't counted.  6DOIT is counted twice, but should be the only DT album to be so counted.

Exactly. Otherwise artists could just release all their albums with five pointless bonus discs and get huge album sales.

[bosk1]

@Kev: Indeed, and that's another reason that making a comparison between the two is meaningless.

@Reap: That's about double albums, it says nothing about bonus discs or special editions.

The RIAA system is purely a measurement of discs sold.

Yes, but as Rich correctly stated, it is only a measurement of disks sold where those disks are part of a multi-disk album, and not bonus disks, special editions, DVD's, etc.

[ReaPsTA]

Fair enough.

[slycordinator]

No, but an album with a twenty year vintage beating an album with a two year vintage on sales doesn't mean it's selling better.

It's like if me and Usain Bolt went for a sprint, and he gave me a 45 second head start. I could perfectly fairly claim to have won the race, but I'm not running faster than him at any point in time.

BCSL sold like hotcakes in its first few weeks. Images and Words has been selling like lukewarm cakes over twenty years.

Let me put it this way:
I may be wrong but I bet if we only looked at the two years after I&W came out, it would still have better sales than BCSL. Something I&W had that BCSL didn't is fairly big exposure on MTV...

[ZirconBlue]

No, but an album with a twenty year vintage beating an album with a two year vintage on sales doesn't mean it's selling better.

It's like if me and Usain Bolt went for a sprint, and he gave me a 45 second head start. I could perfectly fairly claim to have won the race, but I'm not running faster than him at any point in time.

BCSL sold like hotcakes in its first few weeks. Images and Words has been selling like lukewarm cakes over twenty years.

Let me put it this way:
I may be wrong but I bet if we only looked at the two years after I&W came out, it would still have better sales than BCSL. Something I&W had that BCSL didn't is fairly big exposure on MTV...

Indeed I&W was certified Gold (>500,000 copies sold in the US) in Feb 1995, 2.5 years after it's release.  BC&SL would have to sell a metric buttload of copies in the next 7 months just to catch up with that.

[bosk1]

Well, since a metric buttload is actually slightly smaller than an English standard buttload, I wouldn't rule out the possibility.

[TL]

Six Degrees is only counted as one. To be counted as two units by the RIAA, it has to be two discs, and at least 100 minutes in length. Six Degrees is less than 100 minutes.

As has been said, it's also just for the main album, so for example, the special edition of BC&SL is still just one unit, because the two additional discs are 'bonus content'.

As well, to my knowledge, the US is the only country that counts 'units' instead of copies.

[ZirconBlue]

Well, since a metric buttload is actually slightly smaller than an English standard buttload, I wouldn't rule out the possibility.

Indeed.  I didn't want to exaggerate.

[austin]

They give the label a bit more stature and prestige, IMO.

This exactly

Well, since a metric buttload is actually slightly smaller than an English standard buttload, I wouldn't rule out the possibility.

[obscure]

What if they accidentally resign thinking they were simply re-signing?  I'm scared.  Do you think we should start a petition so that they are aware of the difference? 

Before reading the rest I had lol at this..... 

[darkshade]

No, but an album with a twenty year vintage beating an album with a two year vintage on sales doesn't mean it's selling better.

It's like if me and Usain Bolt went for a sprint, and he gave me a 45 second head start. I could perfectly fairly claim to have won the race, but I'm not running faster than him at any point in time.

BCSL sold like hotcakes in its first few weeks. Images and Words has been selling like lukewarm cakes over twenty years.

Let me put it this way:
I may be wrong but I bet if we only looked at the two years after I&W came out, it would still have better sales than BCSL. Something I&W had that BCSL didn't is fairly big exposure on MTV...

If BC&SL got lots of exposure on MTV now, it wouldn't matter because people don't watch MTV for music anymore; or at least the audience DT is reaching out for don't watch MTV at all. Maybe they'd pick up a few more fans, but I don't think there would be a giant difference.

If DT wanted a larger audience, they would have commercials on channels like Cartoon Network (Adult Swim), VH1 Classic, Comedy Central, G4, etc... People who like good music watch those channels and more. I remember BC&SL had a commercial, and I always caught it on those channels (and sports channels too). I doubt MTV played those commercials.

[MetropolisxPt1]

They're probably staying. DT's one of RR's big bands. DT wins, RR wins.

This, unless some other big record company swoops in and offers them a much better deal they will most likely stay.

You cant get better then RR

[obscure]

World is changing... heavy metal / prog metal, rock, hard rock ... and so on.... are getting mainstream.... it wouldn't actually change much whether they carry on with RR or sign a new contract...
as people have mentioned already they are a huge brand now..... They are DREAM THEATER!!!!
it's the record companies who should run after them....

In fact I kind of get jealous when people buy DT CDs merely because of the promotion activities....
but at the same time I want them to make shit loads of money and be in the US top 10 list....
I am confused...
I am sure (kind of hope) someone else feels the way I do....

[bosk1]

World is changing... heavy metal / prog metal, rock, hard rock ... and so on.... are getting mainstream.... it wouldn't actually change much whether they carry on with RR or sign a new contract...

 Yes it would.  Most labels would have no idea what to do with them.  

as people have mentioned already they are a huge brand now..... They are DREAM THEATER!!!!

Um, no, I don't think anyone here said that, because it isn't true.  We may like them a lot, and they may be a big name within the prog community, but in the context of music as a whole, they are still and likely will always be relatively unknown.  And that's fine.  They don't have to be huge to be successful.  They are doing quite well within their own realm.

[obscure]

 Yes it would.  Most labels would have no idea what to do with them.  

mmm interesting... we're talking about a market at a size of $60 bn  ... and record companies don't know what to do with them?... someone is kind of underestimating the business acumen of some big players in the music industry....

Um, no, I don't think anyone here said that, because it isn't true. 

well yes, someone has... but I'm too tired to find who... pls help yourself....

[bosk1]

What are you talking about?

[Millais]

yes.

who else would they go to? can't think of any record companies off the top of my head which would do a good job in promoting for the type of band that DT is.

[TL]

Um, no, I don't think anyone here said that, because it isn't true.  We may like them a lot, and they may be a big name within the prog community, but in the context of music as a whole, they are still and likely will always be relatively unknown.  And that's fine.  They don't have to be huge to be successful.  They are doing quite well within their own realm.

While they're certainly not a big name in the way current pop artists are, and probably not a household name, they have gotten to a point where I'm not surprised when I come across someone in person who knows about them.

[pogoowner]

Um, no, I don't think anyone here said that, because it isn't true.  We may like them a lot, and they may be a big name within the prog community, but in the context of music as a whole, they are still and likely will always be relatively unknown.  And that's fine.  They don't have to be huge to be successful.  They are doing quite well within their own realm.

While they're certainly not a big name in the way current pop artists are, and probably not a household name, they have gotten to a point where I'm not surprised when I come across someone in person who knows about them.

They've made HUGE progress in the last 10 years or so. Most people who are knowledgeable about rock music in general at least know who they are. I was once surprised to meet someone who knew of them. Like you said, that's no longer the case.

[goo-goo]

I could only see DT either re-signing with RR or doing one of those 360 deals with LiveNation or AEG. Maybe Century Media could compete with RR, other than that I don't see another label making a run at DT.

[obscure]

I do think DT is a huge brand now... More and more people recognise their logo; they have a massive loyal fan base; very unique sound... They headline High Voltage among all the other great bands... Do you think this was where they were a ten years ago?

The fact that people who don't like them have the same argument (which I wholeheartedly disagree) i.e. "they are too technical, mechanical, lifeless, bereft of soul" and all that rubbish alone shows that they are a widely recognised brand now. People who haven't given their tunes enough chance just quote these - DT identity means these to them. But the point is, they are aware of the DT identity and they follow a pattern associated with this identity. 

What are you talking about?

I am not even talking about music anymore here, I'm talking about business, money... In many countries, organisers saw the potential of a lot of monies in rock/metal, bands are including countries they have never been before in their tour programmes. Why?

Because with IPod, Apple changed the shape of music distribution. Flow of money and value chain took a u-turn in the music industry. With the easy to use and very high performance encoding algorithms (MP3, OGG, etc) and increasing bandwidths, pirating got really bad and bands stopped earning from album sales. Now there is only one real source of money there: concerts.

DT is virtually always on tour; they perform to millions; their meet and greet tickets sell out...

I am perfectly happy with what RR delivers, don't get me wrong, but I think it would be very wrong to attribute DT success during their time solely to RR.

I don't think there are big players who'd mess completely up and fail to do the necessary marketing for DT if they represent the band. There are a lot of very clever people and very good companies operating in this industry. After all, how could you justify a $60b market if the established companies operating in the market weren't clever?

[bosk1]

You are either delusional or don't know how to check your facts.

[Dream_Theater01]

How many more albums are DT signed for on their current deal?

[bosk1]

Some have posted that it was a 3 studio album deal, in which case this album will fullfill their contract.  I don't recall whether they ever said how many albums they signed for.

[obscure]

I would answer the question but I am delusional anyway 

[hefdaddy42]

Some have posted that it was a 3 studio album deal, in which case this album will fullfill their contract.  I don't recall whether they ever said how many albums they signed for.

The first person I saw to report it as a 3-album deal was, if I'm not mistaken, Setlist Scotty.

[bosk1]

Could be.  And I'm not saying the information is necessarily incorrect.  I simply do not recall whether we ever got confirmation through official or semi-official channels or not.