Author Topic: Election 2012  (Read 231734 times)

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Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1015 on: January 31, 2012, 09:31:29 PM »
Here's a weird observation: How come there's no polls anymore for the upcoming states? Up until now there were several polls running per state, but the last polls for the upcoming ones are ancient and really have no meaning.

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Offline antigoon

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1016 on: January 31, 2012, 09:41:12 PM »
This may be an obvious question, but how did it come about that Iowa, South Carolina, and New Hampshire -three states not very representative of the electorate on the whole- came to pretty much determine who the nominee would be?

Offline TL

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1017 on: January 31, 2012, 10:32:57 PM »
Here's a weird observation: How come there's no polls anymore for the upcoming states? Up until now there were several polls running per state, but the last polls for the upcoming ones are ancient and really have no meaning.

rumborak
Many stages of the US political system are more for show than anything. The GOP knew Romney was going to be their nominee before a single vote was cast. They just needed to make it look like they were still being democratic about the whole process until Romney gained enough ground that they could justify treating his nomination as inevitable.

Putting states like Iowa and New Hampshire early on allows them to play up a candidate's "electability" if the person they like wins, but dismiss it as just a small state and not representative of 'real america' if the candidate they like loses.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1018 on: January 31, 2012, 11:08:13 PM »
Predictable results in Florida. Holy shit, Latino's are truly embarrassing.

I'm gonna go ahead an guess that most Latino's didn't vote in the Republican primary.

Offline Riceball

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1019 on: January 31, 2012, 11:10:03 PM »
Predictable results in Florida. Holy shit, Latino's are truly embarrassing.

I'm gonna go ahead an guess that most Latino's didn't vote in the Republican primary.
Now, why would you say that?

 :lol
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1020 on: January 31, 2012, 11:14:12 PM »
Predictable results in Florida. Holy shit, Latino's are truly embarrassing.

I'm gonna go ahead an guess that most Latino's didn't vote in the Republican primary.
Now, why would you say that?

 :lol

Sarcasm?

Serious answer, historical voting records. They generally vote Democratic. It's also not in their economic interest to support any of the Republicans.

You know what's refreshing about Paul? His speech isn't a diatribe against Obama. He calls out the Federal Government, but at least he isn't stooping to the extremely low and dishonest nature of saying everything that's wrong with our government is somehow "Obama's fault."

Offline Progmetty

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1021 on: February 01, 2012, 01:05:45 AM »
The man is really classy, he can't be president.
Finished watching the debate on youtube. When the guy from the audience asked about what they'll do about the creation of a Palestinian state Romney and Gingrich really weren't shy to lay back and show some width and wetness right away.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline jsem

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1022 on: February 01, 2012, 06:29:09 AM »


 :biggrin:
Lol. This was a pretty predictable result though.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1023 on: February 01, 2012, 01:45:03 PM »
Wow, I tried to watch Romney's victory speech tonight, and it's just amazing to me how much of a charlatan and demagogue the man is. Just spewing crap after crap that's either invalid or just completely lacking any evaluation. It was full of fucking lies, just pure lies, and a complete straw man of a President who does not exist. Of course, all the Republicans are responsible of this, but Romney seems to be staking his entire bid on complete lies. It's disgusting.

It's really pretty astonishing how it works, isn't it?  You're just seeing the tip of the iceberg.  The man is a walking contradiction of himself.

Offline antigoon

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1024 on: February 01, 2012, 01:51:36 PM »
I seriously think one of Obama's biggest assets this coming election will be his general likability. His good guy family man vibe is undeniable. Romney just can't help but seem unpleasant, cold, and completely in his own world.

I can't think of a more prickly POTUS candidate in recent years...besides, like, Gingrich.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1025 on: February 01, 2012, 02:13:41 PM »
Wow, I tried to watch Romney's victory speech tonight, and it's just amazing to me how much of a charlatan and demagogue the man is. Just spewing crap after crap that's either invalid or just completely lacking any evaluation. It was full of fucking lies, just pure lies, and a complete straw man of a President who does not exist. Of course, all the Republicans are responsible of this, but Romney seems to be staking his entire bid on complete lies. It's disgusting.

It's really pretty astonishing how it works, isn't it?  You're just seeing the tip of the iceberg.  The man is a walking contradiction of himself.

Oh I know, it's just getting completely disturbing to me how much of a complete lie the man is running on. It's demagoguery, it's the worst of the human spirit, and I really don't know if I'll be able to live in a country that is so ignorant. Hopefully, when he, or any of the likely nominee's start running against Obama, the American people by and large see the bullshit for what it is.

Offline unklejman

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1026 on: February 01, 2012, 02:16:09 PM »
But what is one supposed to do when both candidates are bs? I mean I'll vote third party, but...

Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1027 on: February 01, 2012, 02:25:43 PM »
Speaking of third parties, are there even any at this point? Haven't heard anything of the Green Party since Nader.

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1028 on: February 01, 2012, 02:37:50 PM »
Well, the "Tea Party" was supposed to be independent, but lack of a singular cohesive identity combined with the GOP basically doing a hostile takeover led to them basically disappearing.
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1029 on: February 01, 2012, 04:24:50 PM »
But what is one supposed to do when both candidates are bs? I mean I'll vote third party, but...


I guess I still don't see what's so bs about Obama. Is there some? Ya, but for the most part he's pretty factually accurate, and he's kept to his campaign promises something like 98%+ of the time.

I still wish him and Ron Paul would both get in a teleporter together, and become Barack Paul, or Ron Obama. Give me a candidate who wants to end our empire, end the drug war, but not completely go after Medicare and Social Security (especially considering neither of those programs are truly responsible for any debt at this point).

Speaking of third parties, are there even any at this point? Haven't heard anything of the Green Party since Nader.

rumborak

Well, there's America Elects (or whatever the internet thing is), but that's sorta been out of the news. I know there's still technically a Libertarian party, but again, no media coverage.

Offline chknptpie

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1030 on: February 01, 2012, 08:29:29 PM »
AE is on the ballot in at least 15 states last I heard.

Offline jsem

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1031 on: February 02, 2012, 07:36:06 AM »
I still wish him and Ron Paul would both get in a teleporter together, and become Barack Paul, or Ron Obama. Give me a candidate who wants to end our empire, end the drug war, but not completely go after Medicare and Social Security (especially considering neither of those programs are truly responsible for any debt at this point).
You know, Ron Paul isn't cutting much at all out of Social Security and Medicare as of his current plans.
Well, there's America Elects (or whatever the internet thing is), but that's sorta been out of the news. I know there's still technically a Libertarian party, but again, no media coverage.

Which is sad. The Libertarian Party could see some momentum behind it after this Paul campaign.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 07:41:40 AM by jsem »

Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1032 on: February 02, 2012, 07:58:16 AM »
Polls are showing the usual percentages for Nevada. Romney at 45%, Gingrich 25%, Santorum 11%, Paul 9%.

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Online Chino

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1033 on: February 02, 2012, 08:08:42 AM »
What do you all think about Mitt saying "I'm not concerned about the very poor, we have a safety net there. If it needs repair, I'll fix it."?

I gave him the benefit of the doubt with the firing people comment. Even though I dislike the guy, I understood what he meant with that comment. With this one though, I just get angry. Even if it is being taken out of context, this one is hard to swallow. It just seems like really stupid thing to say in a country where 1 and 10 can't find work, and 1 in 6 families are struggling to eat well. I highly doubt he meant that he doesn't care about the poor, but what is this safety net he speaks of? "If it needs repair", what the fuck does that mean? Of course it needs repair, look at the state of our country right now.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 08:23:28 AM by Chino »

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1034 on: February 02, 2012, 08:19:49 AM »
Not to mention "we have a safety net there" isn't an excuse when a major component of the conservative platform is actually eliminating that safety net.
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Offline jsem

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1035 on: February 02, 2012, 08:23:31 AM »
New Nevada poll:

In the most recent 2012NevadaCaucus.com phone poll.....

Mitt Romney 34%
Ron Paul 24%
Undecided 19%
Newt Gingrich 14%
Rick Santorum 9%

Results are based on telephone survey from 1-31-12 to 2-1-12, with a random sample of 300 Republican registered voters, aged 18 and older, living in state of Nevada and are likely to vote in the 2012 Nevada Caucus.
Margin of error is ±5 percentage points.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1036 on: February 02, 2012, 08:45:31 AM »
I've seen that, but apparently nobody really knows where that poll comes from. PPP Polls also said that RP wouldn't make second, but instead 3rd or 4th.
Besides, the above result I find also very implausible. Romney only getting 34% in a Mormon state? RP getting a quarter of the votes when he barely made 7% in FL? And Gingrich only 14%? All very bizarre. I find the other polls far more believable.

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Offline antigoon

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1037 on: February 02, 2012, 09:01:44 AM »
Not to mention "we have a safety net there" isn't an excuse when a major component of the conservative platform is actually eliminating that safety net.
First thing I thought as well. He is just so bad at hiding his true self.

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1038 on: February 02, 2012, 11:07:37 AM »
All I hear from the candidates, as well as voters, is that the biggest issue is who can beat Obama.
I personally get put off when the main platform or concern is to just beat the opponent of the opposing party, rather than what they can or will do to fix the country.
And does anyone feel that any Republican candidate will be able to beat Obama?  Not sure I do.
Oh shit, you're right!

rumborak

Rumborak to me 10/29

Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1039 on: February 02, 2012, 11:29:47 AM »
I certainly don't get the impression that any of the candidates, with the notable exception of Ron Paul, has anything vastly different to offer in terms of solutions than Obama. They're using the language the GOP base wants to hear ("save money", "smaller government") but then proceed to talk about expanding the military etc.

rumborak
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1040 on: February 02, 2012, 11:30:37 AM »
It seems by design that the challenging party will rarely ever able to beat the incumbent. And I'm not just talking about the money disparity, either -- the candidate selection process has been pretty crap. Since Reagan:

Walter Mondale
Bob Dole
John Kerry
Mitt Romney

I wasn't around for Mondale, but jeez talk about a lot of bland, uninspiring folks.


Online Chino

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1041 on: February 02, 2012, 11:34:55 AM »
And does anyone feel that any Republican candidate will be able to beat Obama?  Not sure I do.

Unless they can prove that Obama caused this country's melt down and not the Bush administration, I'd say no. I can wait to see which republican has to go head to head with Obama. I'm sure Obama has a ton of artillery that he is just waiting to fire off when the time is right.

Offline antigoon

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1042 on: February 02, 2012, 11:36:07 AM »
It's going to be so easy for him to paint Romney as Mr. Douchebag 1% it's not even funny.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1043 on: February 02, 2012, 11:40:18 AM »
Yeah. Romney isn't even that popular with the Republicans themselves. And the Dems will have a field day with Romneycare.

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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1044 on: February 02, 2012, 11:48:36 AM »
I just hope the Dems don't get cocky. They do still have to win the hearts and minds, even Obama haters.
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Online Chino

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1045 on: February 02, 2012, 11:51:30 AM »
I just hope the Dems don't get cocky. They do still have to win the hearts and minds, even Obama haters.

The Dems already have a lot of hearts and minds. My whole mindset is that Obama was in office for the beginning of this mess, he is much more in tune with it than any of the current Republican candidates. I don't think it is wise to throw a new guy into the mix to try and correct something that they really aren't familiar with.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 12:02:09 PM by Chino »

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1046 on: February 02, 2012, 11:58:14 AM »
I just hope the Dems don't get cocky. They do still have to win the hearts and minds, even Obama haters.

The Dems already have a lot of hearts and minds. My whole mindset is that Obama was in office for the beginning of this mess, he is much or in tune with it than any of the current Republican candidates. I don't think it is wise to throw a new guy into the mix to try and correct something that they really aren't familiar with.

From a politically knowledgeable standpoint, I totally agree with you. Unfortunately there are people in this country, people who even voted for Obama in 2008, who believe he alone is to blame for the current situation.

I might be misunderstanding your point though, so please notify me.
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Online Chino

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1047 on: February 02, 2012, 12:01:18 PM »
I just hope the Dems don't get cocky. They do still have to win the hearts and minds, even Obama haters.

The Dems already have a lot of hearts and minds. My whole mindset is that Obama was in office for the beginning of this mess, he is much more in tune with it than any of the current Republican candidates. I don't think it is wise to throw a new guy into the mix to try and correct something that they really aren't familiar with.

From a politically knowledgeable standpoint, I totally agree with you. Unfortunately there are people in this country, people who even voted for Obama in 2008, who believe he alone is to blame for the current situation.

I might be misunderstanding your point though, so please notify me.

Nah, we're on the same page.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1048 on: February 02, 2012, 12:03:05 PM »
What do you all think about Mitt saying "I'm not concerned about the very poor, we have a safety net there. If it needs repair, I'll fix it."?

Stupid comment that may very well come back to haunt him.

#1, as you said, it goes against party principles about even having a "safety net."

#2, even leaving #1 aside, I don't disagree with what he was trying to say, but what he actually said doesn't sound a whole lot like what he was trying to say.

And by the way, in context, here is what I believe he was actually trying to communicate:  What he was trying to say is NOT that he doesn't care about the poor; what he was trying to say is that the very rich don't need help, and there are programs in place to help the very poor (and he said right after that that those programs need to be fixed so that they work better and more efficiently).  So given those facts, his focus is on the vast majority that fall somewhere in between.  Again, not an issue of not caring about the poor.  But rather an issue of where to put more focus, the thought being that, for the poor, it takes a lot less energy to improve programs that are already in place than to spend a ton of energy trying to create something new.  His really sloppy way of saying that is going to haunt him, I just know it.  It really makes him sound out of touch.
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Online Chino

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #1049 on: February 02, 2012, 12:04:30 PM »
What do you all think about Mitt saying "I'm not concerned about the very poor, we have a safety net there. If it needs repair, I'll fix it."?

Stupid comment that may very well come back to haunt him.

#1, as you said, it goes against party principles about even having a "safety net."

#2, even leaving #1 aside, I don't disagree with what he was trying to say, but what he actually said doesn't sound a whole lot like what he was trying to say.

And by the way, in context, here is what I believe he was actually trying to communicate:  What he was trying to say is NOT that he doesn't care about the poor; what he was trying to say is that the very rich don't need help, and there are programs in place to help the very poor (and he said right after that that those programs need to be fixed so that they work better and more efficiently).  So given those facts, his focus is on the vast majority that fall somewhere in between.  Again, not an issue of not caring about the poor.  But rather an issue of where to put more focus, the thought being that, for the poor, it takes a lot less energy to improve programs that are already in place than to spend a ton of energy trying to create something new.  His really sloppy way of saying that is going to haunt him, I just know it.  It really makes him sound out of touch.

Very good post  :tup