Author Topic: Election 2012  (Read 231748 times)

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Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #910 on: January 22, 2012, 08:53:42 AM »
Well, that's what jsem is saying. It's called a "brokered convention" and involves horse trades between delegates, and revoting.

But, Paul 4th, what is wrong with SC.

Well, tbh, I think the 13% is somewhere around the real percentage of people supporting RP's libertarian views. The high NH votes were partially because it was RP's turn at that point to have a slight surge (just like any of the other candidates had before).

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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #911 on: January 22, 2012, 12:31:09 PM »
But, Paul 4th, what is wrong with SC.
Nothing really, that's about accurate.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #912 on: January 22, 2012, 01:18:11 PM »
Holy crapola, just saw this:

https://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries/epolls/sc?hpt=hp_t2

99% of the GOP in SC are white?!!!

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Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #913 on: January 22, 2012, 11:16:27 PM »
Is the Republican party that much different anywhere?

But ya, that's why when people like Gingrich, who are basically the definition of a condescending white man on race, get standing ovations, instead of booed.

Offline jsem

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #914 on: January 23, 2012, 06:57:31 AM »
Only 9% of electorate 18-29. And only 31% for Paul. I'm disappointed there.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #915 on: January 23, 2012, 08:35:45 AM »
Only 9% of electorate 18-29. And only 31% for Paul. I'm disappointed there.

I know you're disappointed, but the reality is what it is.  Ron Paul has never had a chance in the Republican party.  His foreign policy views are way too far outside of today's conservative orthodoxy for him to ever achieve anything more than around 15% of the vote.  I'm not trying to rub it in, jsem, I know you like the guy, I know you support him.  I just think in the United States of 2012, Ron Paul just ain't going anywhere, neither is libertarianism in general.

What is fascinating to me is to watch this sort of circular firing squad that the Republicans are forming, all because of -let's be honest- Mitt Romney's religion.  I mean, other than his religion, Mitt Romney is really the perfect candidate to win back the white house for the Republican party.  He polls the strongest in most match-ups against Obama, he's got the executive experience, he clearly has a pretty vast amount of knowledge with respect to how the economy works, he's done extremely well in the debates, has a monstrous organization, he LOOKS very presidential and I think his handlers selected the precise theme (the Optimism/Pessimism theme he's running on) that can best be wielded against Obama and the Democrats......

yet......

They are selecting Gingrich?  Newt Gingrich?  :lol

Now THAT would be an Obama landslide.   

I still think the Republicans CAN'T be this stupid.  Can they?  :|


Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #916 on: January 23, 2012, 10:45:22 AM »
I know you're disappointed, but the reality is what it is.  Ron Paul has never had a chance in the Republican party.  His foreign policy views are way too far outside of today's conservative orthodoxy for him to ever achieve anything more than around 15% of the vote.  I'm not trying to rub it in, jsem, I know you like the guy, I know you support him.  I just think in the United States of 2012, Ron Paul just ain't going anywhere, neither is libertarianism in general.

I think that's a pretty reasonable assessment. I kinda hope that RP's staff is laying out reality to him as it is, and isn't sugar-coating things making him believe that he actually has a chance at either candidacy or presidency. He never had, and I really hope RP knew this going in but wanted to use the GOP nomination cycle as a way to publicly spread his views.
RP's support base mostly draws on the same young, idealistic, willing-to-destroy-the-status-quo demographic that every country has. In Germany, those guys are Communists. In the US, they're Libertarians.

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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #917 on: January 23, 2012, 12:09:41 PM »
Even though I think a few of his policy positions are pretty "out there" I actually think you're right about his rationale for running.  He's a fairly committed libertarian who is trying to spread his message.  Nothing wrong with that.

Offline jsem

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #918 on: January 23, 2012, 02:12:52 PM »
Newt isn't going to contest for 500 delegates. Ron Paul and Romney are on the ballot in all 50 states, if Newt continues this streak - winning Florida and such - a brokered convention might just end up happening.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #919 on: January 23, 2012, 02:20:14 PM »
That would be fine in my book.  Brokered convention = compromised & wounded ticket

Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #920 on: January 23, 2012, 03:52:35 PM »
Newt isn't going to contest for 500 delegates. Ron Paul and Romney are on the ballot in all 50 states, if Newt continues this streak - winning Florida and such - a brokered convention might just end up happening.

I don't want to pound on this unnecessarily, but given you've mentioned this twice now and given your exclusive support for RP, am I right to assume you see a brokered convention as a chance for him to get the nomination after all?
If so, I would have to add another dose of reality: While there is the somewhat "mathematical" possibility that with a constant back and forth between Romney, Gingrich and Santorum the delegates might be so fractured that Ron Paul might actually end up with a big enough chunk of delegates to look equally eligible for president, the GOP base would essentially boycott the RNC if RP got the bid. Because all he would have done is to game the shoddy nomination system. Reality is that only about 10% want RP; the rest just can't make up their mind about either Romney or Gingrich.

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Online Chino

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #921 on: January 23, 2012, 09:00:41 PM »
Watching the debate.... Mitt's response in regard to the space program just made me facepalm for a good ten minutes.

Offline Implode

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #922 on: January 23, 2012, 09:10:30 PM »
Where are you watching it at?

Online Chino

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #923 on: January 23, 2012, 09:38:56 PM »
It was on NBC, it's over now.

Offline Implode

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #924 on: January 23, 2012, 09:51:32 PM »
Ah. It's a shame I don't watch TV anymore. I'd find these debates fascinating.

Offline ResultsMayVary

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #925 on: January 23, 2012, 10:00:30 PM »
As a RP supporter, I thought he did the best in this debate. No one really went after him, though. Romney handled himself well, again (with the exception of a few questions where I wanted to smash my head into the top of my desk).
Where would YOU be without prog?!
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Online Chino

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #926 on: January 23, 2012, 10:10:23 PM »
As a RP supporter, I thought he did the best in this debate. No one really went after him, though. Romney handled himself well, again (with the exception of a few questions where I wanted to smash my head into the top of my desk).

RP's stance on Cuba was really well presented.

Offline ResultsMayVary

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #927 on: January 23, 2012, 10:49:30 PM »
As a RP supporter, I thought he did the best in this debate. No one really went after him, though. Romney handled himself well, again (with the exception of a few questions where I wanted to smash my head into the top of my desk).

RP's stance on Cuba was really well presented.
Yes, it was. Too bad the majority of Republicans are all set on "KILL CASTRO, KILL EVERYTHING" mode.
Where would YOU be without prog?!
I'd be standing somewhere with dignity, respect, and bitches.
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Offline jsem

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #928 on: January 23, 2012, 11:10:46 PM »
Newt isn't going to contest for 500 delegates. Ron Paul and Romney are on the ballot in all 50 states, if Newt continues this streak - winning Florida and such - a brokered convention might just end up happening.

I don't want to pound on this unnecessarily, but given you've mentioned this twice now and given your exclusive support for RP, am I right to assume you see a brokered convention as a chance for him to get the nomination after all?
If so, I would have to add another dose of reality: While there is the somewhat "mathematical" possibility that with a constant back and forth between Romney, Gingrich and Santorum the delegates might be so fractured that Ron Paul might actually end up with a big enough chunk of delegates to look equally eligible for president, the GOP base would essentially boycott the RNC if RP got the bid. Because all he would have done is to game the shoddy nomination system. Reality is that only about 10% want RP; the rest just can't make up their mind about either Romney or Gingrich.

rumborak
Ron Paul won't be the nomination, but he'll have a definite say in the platform.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #929 on: January 24, 2012, 04:30:33 AM »
I doubt it.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Online Chino

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #930 on: January 24, 2012, 08:20:32 AM »
Watching the debate.... Mitt's response in regard to the space program just made me facepalm for a good ten minutes.

I want to bitch about this in a little more depth. Mitt verabally assaulted Obama, saying that he does not care enough scinence and space exploration. Obama isn't the one who tried to cripple the James Webb telescope, we have the house of representatives to thank for that. He went on to say how Obama has set no goals for the future of space exploration. This angers me because Obama has said more than enough times that he wants to have humans on Mars by 2030.

Mitt was also talking about how the private sector needs to get in the game. I personally believe that SpaceX is going to take over the duties of NASA, at least in regards to human space flight. Anyway, Mitt kept saying how the government needs to offer cash rewards to the private sector for the completion of specific goals. The problem I see with this is that the government can't benefit a whole lot from this. The government sponsors the DARPA competition every year, mainly because they get the rights to use any of the technology displayed in the competition. DARPA is more or less free research and developement for our miltary. I don't see how a competition to get to Mars will make us stronger as a country.

I did like the fact that all the candidates seemed to agree that space research is important. However, I don't think any of them know enough about it to discuss it as a topic.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #931 on: January 24, 2012, 12:00:07 PM »
Watching the debate.... Mitt's response in regard to the space program just made me facepalm for a good ten minutes.

I want to bitch about this in a little more depth. Mitt verabally assaulted Obama, saying that he does not care enough scinence and space exploration. Obama isn't the one who tried to cripple the James Webb telescope, we have the house of representatives to thank for that. He went on to say how Obama has set no goals for the future of space exploration. This angers me because Obama has said more than enough times that he wants to have humans on Mars by 2030.

Mitt was also talking about how the private sector needs to get in the game. I personally believe that SpaceX is going to take over the duties of NASA, at least in regards to human space flight. Anyway, Mitt kept saying how the government needs to offer cash rewards to the private sector for the completion of specific goals. The problem I see with this is that the government can't benefit a whole lot from this. The government sponsors the DARPA competition every year, mainly because they get the rights to use any of the technology displayed in the competition. DARPA is more or less free research and developement for our miltary. I don't see how a competition to get to Mars will make us stronger as a country.

I did like the fact that all the candidates seemed to agree that space research is important. However, I don't think any of them know enough about it to discuss it as a topic.

From FactCheck.org
:

Quote
Romney Wrong on NASA
Romney went too far when he claimed that Obama has “no plans” for NASA.  Obama in 2010 set in motion a plan to  build a heavy-lift launch vehicle to go beyond the Earth’s orbit. The president’s plan calls on NASA to land astronauts on an asteroid by 2025, orbit Mars  by the mid-2030s and, ultimately, land on Mars.
 <blockquote>Romney: His plans for NASA, he has no plans for NASA. The space coast is — is struggling. This president has failed the people of Florida.</blockquote> Some background: President Bush announced in January 2004 that he would retire the Shuttle program and return to the moon by 2020. The Shuttle program ended last year, leading to job losses along the so-called “space coast.” The question facing Obama early in his administration was whether he would continue Bush’s plan for NASA or come up with his own. Obama proposed a new course.
In February 2010, Obama’s proposed budget for NASA called for killing Bush’s plan to return to the moon. In an April 15, 2010, speech in Florida, Obama unveiled his proposal for a deep-space exploration plan that included the goals of landing on an asteroid by 2025 and orbiting Mars by the middle of the 2030s — with the  ultimate goal of landing on Mars. The proposal caused a rift among some  of NASA’s most famous astronauts, with Neil Armstrong opposing it and  Buzz Aldrin supporting it, as the Los Angeles Times reported at the time.
Nevertheless, Obama’s plans are moving forward. NASA announced a design for the heavy-lift launch vehicle that would make it possible to go beyond the Earth’s orbit. In making the announcement on the design  plans, NASA administrator Charles Bolden said: “President Obama challenged us to be  bold and dream big, and that’s exactly what we are doing at NASA. While I  was proud to fly on the space shuttle, tomorrow’s explorers will now  dream of one day walking on Mars.”

Basically, when one of these clowns has their gums flapping, most of the junk that's falling out of their mouths is bullshit.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #932 on: January 24, 2012, 12:02:35 PM »
It's pretty sad really. What's the point of listening to the debates if they at this point all just flat-out lie?

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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #933 on: January 24, 2012, 12:04:37 PM »
It's pretty sad really. What's the point of listening to the debates if they at this point all just flat-out lie?

rumborak

Red Meat for their constituencies, which, supposedly drums up more interest in the elections, which in turn could improve voter turnout, which, of course, is always a good thing for your party.

Offline lordxizor

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #934 on: January 24, 2012, 01:05:37 PM »
I would love to have a debate where they did fact checking on the fly and called them on it later in the debate so they had time to clarify. Of course, the candidates would never agree to such a thing.

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #935 on: January 24, 2012, 02:02:15 PM »
I miss Jon Huntsman in the GOP debates.  I don't agree with his regressive stance towards Roe v. Wade, but he was a small beacon of rationality, common sense, and moderate thinking in a cesspool of Republican extremism.  Maybe in 2016 he'll have a better chance...

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #936 on: January 24, 2012, 02:51:00 PM »
I would love to have a debate where they did fact checking on the fly and called them on it later in the debate so they had time to clarify. Of course, the candidates would never agree to such a thing.

Paul would. Gingrich would probably be vain enough to think he was right, or attack the moderator in some fashion. Romney would basically be stuttering.

I say, let Jon Stewart moderate a debate. Put it on a bigger network, so a lot of people who normally don't watch Jon Stewart get exposed to him.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #937 on: January 24, 2012, 03:17:05 PM »
I like the realtime fact check idea.  My suggestion would be to let Bill O'Reilly moderate the democratic debates and Bill Mahr the GOP debates.  The biggest problem with them now is that the moderators are just tossing them softballs as lead ins to their scripted spiels and diatribes.  I'd like to see these things happen with moderators who are actually trying to grill them.
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Offline emindead

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #938 on: January 24, 2012, 03:30:38 PM »
I would love to have a debate where they did fact checking on the fly and called them on it later in the debate so they had time to clarify. Of course, the candidates would never agree to such a thing.

Paul would. Gingrich would probably be vain enough to think he was right, or attack the moderator in some fashion. Romney would basically be stuttering.

I say, let Jon Stewart moderate a debate. Put it on a bigger network, so a lot of people who normally don't watch Jon Stewart get exposed to him.
I would love to see that.

Online Chino

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #939 on: January 24, 2012, 04:39:03 PM »
I like the realtime fact check idea.  My suggestion would be to let Bill O'Reilly moderate the democratic debates and Bill Mahr the GOP debates.  The biggest problem with them now is that the moderators are just tossing them softballs as lead ins to their scripted spiels and diatribes.  I'd like to see these things happen with moderators who are actually trying to grill them.

Bill Maher on the GOP debates would be amazing. Barto, do you watch Real Time? I make it a point to every Friday.

I would like to see more emphasis on the cause of this recession in these debates. They briefly brought it up last night, and you can tell they don't really enjoy talking about it.

Offline Progmetty

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #940 on: January 24, 2012, 04:45:59 PM »
^ I had the impression everybody here collectively hate Bill Maher!

I say, let Jon Stewart moderate a debate. Put it on a bigger network, so a lot of people who normally don't watch Jon Stewart get exposed to him.

Why not Colbert? I prefer him.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Online Chino

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #941 on: January 24, 2012, 05:23:46 PM »
^ I had the impression everybody here collectively hate Bill Maher!



Not me. Other than Neil  Degrasse Tyson, he might be my favorite living person.

Offline Progmetty

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #942 on: January 24, 2012, 05:37:25 PM »
I was neutral until he expressed some support for SOPA and then I realized it's dumb to dislike because of that. I might start watching the show.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Online Chino

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #943 on: January 24, 2012, 05:46:53 PM »
I was neutral until he expressed some support for SOPA and then I realized it's dumb to dislike because of that. I might start watching the show.

This is the last sidebar post I'll make. Watch this clip.

*edit* wrong link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_F3pw5F_Pc
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 05:54:12 PM by Chino »

Offline lordxizor

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #944 on: January 25, 2012, 05:56:12 AM »
I'm not sure that I would want a moderator who would be actively hostile towards the candidates, but one who asked tough questions and demanded the proof of the candidates statements would be nice.