Author Topic: Election 2012  (Read 231795 times)

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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #350 on: December 05, 2011, 05:41:17 PM »
Ugh. Who is in charge of producing this crap? Right now, ronpaul.com seems to have a good black, white and red theme going. Have they not realized that shit like that makes them look like Aryan Nation members? OR is that the whole point?

I mean, seriously?

This


Looks like it's begging to be put somewhere with this logo:

Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #351 on: December 05, 2011, 06:02:59 PM »
What I find most offensive in that poster is that they use the world "love" (in reverse). No offense, but Libertarians are the closest party to "heartless" that I can think of in the American political landscape. For them the words "altruism" and "social" have negative connotations. Not much love there.

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Offline MasterShakezula

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #352 on: December 05, 2011, 06:44:39 PM »
Honestly, I'd be surprise if anyone of either major party would make an ideal president, Ron Paul or not. 

The people who would best benefit the nation through their governing it are those who don't seek the sort of power and prestige found in politics in the first place.

Paul seems to be the least worst in that regard, but that could be false, I dunno. 

Just putting a thought out there. 

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #353 on: December 05, 2011, 07:13:54 PM »
It's my personal belief that the person who would best serve the nation's interest does not exist. Such an ideal figure, public or private, is subject to our personal beliefs and desires, and the fickleness and other hypocrisies (sp?) upon which we blame human nature.

The 'best man for the job' is a mythical Mr. Smith who does not exist, never has and never will. Yet our constant expectation as a nation that any single individual can hope to live up to his ever-growing repertoire of paradoxical qualities, ranging from the innocence of being "outside the political game" to his need to still somehow be an expert in policy and the game of politics, will only continue to set us up for disappointment and outrage. And I'm not saying we should take any old guy (or gal) who puts his (or her) name on the ticket. Just saying that we shouldn't keep waiting for Mr. Smith to go to Washington. The best man to serve the nation's interest will be someone who is skilled enough and honest enough, and that's about the best we can realistically ask for.

Whew, sorry. Rant over. It was actually meant for something completely different, entirely different forum actually, but Cup's comment got me thinking about it again.
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #354 on: December 05, 2011, 07:20:01 PM »
Have they not realized that shit like that makes them look like Aryan Nation members? OR is that the whole point

So everything with black, white and red makes you a Nazi? Most of Ron Paul fervent supporters are < 30, young kids are the least racist generation yet, so they're not making that connection.


Different area of the "Election 2012" topic, but I had to post this Ron Paul ad here to see what people think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXCZVmQ74OA

I'll post my thoughts after a few others comment on it.

I know he's just "playing the game" but...I just went :lolpalm:

I almost peed myself laughing at the "pro-wrestling" vibe to be honest  :lol

Is this what our system has become?

A freaking monster-truck ad?   :facepalm: :lol :mehlin :lol

 :\

Wait, why is that funny again?
 :|

I think, or maybe I hope, it's satire.

Offline Sigz

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #355 on: December 05, 2011, 07:31:58 PM »
Yeah PC, I'm not really seeing the Nazi correlation.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #356 on: December 05, 2011, 09:07:05 PM »


Oh no, can't be unseen: Look at his mouth, looks like his teeth are over his lower lip, like a mentally challenged kid would do :lol

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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #357 on: December 05, 2011, 09:13:59 PM »
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So everything with black, white and red makes you a Nazi?

Where did I say that?

I'm just saying that these are some weird choices he's made in terms of how he markets himself. While most candidates are trying to show they're as red white and blue as possible, Ron Paul goes with the colors of Nazi Germany, not really the best pick for a guy who has some questionable white-supremacist ties in his closet and gets endorsed by well-known anti-semites like Pat Buchanan and, futhermore, gets snubbed by his own party all the time for not being proud enough of America. Plus, he releases ads that look like they belong on SpikeTV. I'm not saying he IS a Nazi, I'm saying that him getting as much of the spotlight as he's been getting is really starting to highlight the weakness of his campaign-- mainly, that his advertising sucks and that he's not really even coherent as an orator (at least anymore, he's pretty old though so I will cut him a little bit of a break).

Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #358 on: December 05, 2011, 09:21:06 PM »
I personally haven't gotten that white supremacy vibe from him, but I'm fully onboard that his public addresses (at least from what I could see from the debates) are pretty incoherent these days. He gets asked a question, and occasionally you can discern what his stance is, but many times he just rambles on with no beginning or end. His die-hard followers don't care because he can do no wrong, but for the rest of us it's like listening to Abe Simpson.

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Offline emindead

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #359 on: December 05, 2011, 10:29:38 PM »


Oh no, can't be unseen: Look at his mouth, looks like his teeth are over his lower lip, like a mentally challenged kid would do :lol

rumborak

Really? I see it more like a "Dat azz" kinda face :lol

Nazi? Nah.

To be honest "Altruism" and "social" are negative in Objectivism philosophy not in Libertarianism.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #360 on: December 06, 2011, 12:24:38 AM »
To be perfectly honest, I find the two hard to separate, since its adherents heavily overlap.

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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #361 on: December 06, 2011, 08:05:48 AM »
Different area of the "Election 2012" topic, but I had to post this Ron Paul ad here to see what people think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXCZVmQ74OA

I'll post my thoughts after a few others comment on it.

I know he's just "playing the game" but...I just went :lolpalm:

I almost peed myself laughing at the "pro-wrestling" vibe to be honest  :lol

Is this what our system has become?

A freaking monster-truck ad?   :facepalm: :lol :mehlin :lol

 :\

Wait, why is that funny again?
 :|

I forgot to mention the other GLARING factual stupidity in the ad.  The claim in the ad is that by eliminating the 4 agencies cited, he'll trim $1 Trillion from the budget.

Anyone who believes this is even remotely close to being feasible is an idiot.

Online Chino

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #362 on: December 06, 2011, 08:11:23 AM »
I'v been thinking.... I bet the Democrats would love to have Newt get the nomination. I'm willing to bet that they have some crazy dirt on that guy that they aren't releasing just yet. As soon as he gets the nomination they are going to unleash fury.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #363 on: December 06, 2011, 12:45:35 PM »
We don't need dirt on him, there's already enough dirt on him readily available as part of the public record.    Of the candidates remaining in the race that have a realistic chance of winning the nomination, Newt Gingrich is the most favorable candidate for Obama to go up against.

Never mind the debacle about his marriages and serial cheating on wives.

When he was speaker of the house he was basically a scandal factory

Offline jsem

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #364 on: December 06, 2011, 01:25:10 PM »
Different area of the "Election 2012" topic, but I had to post this Ron Paul ad here to see what people think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXCZVmQ74OA

I'll post my thoughts after a few others comment on it.

I know he's just "playing the game" but...I just went :lolpalm:

I almost peed myself laughing at the "pro-wrestling" vibe to be honest  :lol

Is this what our system has become?

A freaking monster-truck ad?   :facepalm: :lol :mehlin :lol

 :\

Wait, why is that funny again?
 :|

I forgot to mention the other GLARING factual stupidity in the ad.  The claim in the ad is that by eliminating the 4 agencies cited, he'll trim $1 Trillion from the budget.

Anyone who believes this is even remotely close to being feasible is an idiot.
Not that I'm saying it's a good ad, it's actually a terrible ad imo - but nowhere did the ad claim that eliminating 4 agencies (they cited five by the way) was the way that the 1 trillion was cut.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #365 on: December 06, 2011, 01:39:49 PM »
I think you need to watch the ad again and listen to the verbiage very carefully.  I know English isn't your native language, but the way that ad is worded, he claims he's going to cut $1 Trillion dollars, then next he cites 4 agencies he'll cut, which very, very strongly implies that the cutting of those agencies is the means to and end for getting that $1 Trillion out. 

The problem is our entire discretionary spending budget here is $1.3 Trillion and about $550 billion of that is military spending.   NO ONE is going to cut a trillion bucks out of our budget in one year.  Just like I'm not going to get a reach-around from Cleopatra while surfing down a volcanic lava flow on a banana peel.   Of course, none of that really matters to the mouth-breathers this ad is aimed at.

Offline Sigz

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #366 on: December 06, 2011, 01:42:43 PM »
That ad is almost as bad as his fake debate with Obama on Fox News.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #367 on: December 06, 2011, 01:46:25 PM »
I know, it's a ridiculous ad.

Here's a transcription of what the narrator says:

What's up with these sorry politicians? Lots of bark, but when it's showtime, wimpering like little shitzus. You want big cuts, Ron Paul's been screaming it for years.  Budget crisis?  No problem!  Cut a trillion bucks year one.  That's trillion with a T. Department of Education?  Gone! Interior? Energy? HUD? Commerce? Gone! Later bureaucrats!  That's how Ron Paul rolls.  Wanna drain the swamp?  Ron Paul! Do it!


And I was wrong, he cites 5 agencies he'll get rid of, implying in the sentence previous to that one that it will cut $1 Trillion from our budget.  A budget that totals $1.3 Trillion with over 1/3 of it being military spending.

The only thing he DIDN'T say in this ad is "I won't _________ in your mouth"



Offline jsem

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #368 on: December 06, 2011, 03:54:33 PM »
That ad is almost as bad as his fake debate with Obama on Fox News.
LOL. I just did some research on this again, it was MEANT as a fake debate. It wasn't a guy actually trying to be Obama and them making a real attempt at it. It's hilarious now that I see it again, Ron Paul has some humor lol.

Here's the fake debate: https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/04/ron-paul-debates-obama-impersonator-on-fox.html. It even has Paul debates "Obama" in those exact quotation marks.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #369 on: December 06, 2011, 06:13:39 PM »
I just watched the ad. Is he intentionally making himself unelectable? I mean, who doesn't get the impression from the ad that Ron Paul's solution to saving money is by destroying the fabric of the country?

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Offline Rathma

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #370 on: December 06, 2011, 06:40:19 PM »
Ugh. Who is in charge of producing this crap? Right now, ronpaul.com seems to have a good black, white and red theme going. Have they not realized that shit like that makes them look like Aryan Nation members? OR is that the whole point?

I mean, seriously?

This


Looks like it's begging to be put somewhere with this logo:


Nice troll

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #371 on: December 06, 2011, 08:10:37 PM »
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Nice troll

So are you going to answer any of the legitimate points I've made, or are you just going to insult me because of one post you decided to take out of context?

Offline Progmetty

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #372 on: December 06, 2011, 09:32:42 PM »
PC You might have noticed I usually land on your side of thing and we have a lot of similar opinions but I think you're way off about Ron Paul. Whether was it your colors theory or your opinion of the man himself.
I think he's the most honest and straight forward of the GOP candidates, he talks less like a Politician than any of them, you can always spot if a campaign ad or slogan is a product of his thinking or campaign managers executing advertising ideas they think would help him, like the love/revolution thing. Which I find cheesy but not horrible.
And again I might not agree with a lot of his plans; I still find him most certainly the least "Nazi comparable" of all the republican candidates. Even though I don't think the current American right wing leading figures/candidates are at all comparable to Nazi leading figures cause unlike the Nazis; these people are not struggling/fighting/lying for the sole glory and prosperity of their own people, so I think we're seeing something worse. Materialistic Nazis  :eek
Judging from the debates we've seen so far I think Ron Paul was never deceptive nor misleading. He doesn't seem as stiff and worried about his image as the others. Frankly right now I like him more than Obama, I never would have imagined myself leaning towards a right winger, ever, so that's gotta tell ya something heh
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #373 on: December 06, 2011, 11:08:31 PM »
Again, there is no "colors theory". I am not trying to say Ron Paul is a Nazi. I am simply asking, while every other politician is trying to convince you they piss red white and blue, Ron Paul is gearing his campaign in such a way that seems to cater to monster-truck fans who might or might not be skinheads, too. I'm not making any claims that need defending here, I'm just asking for a rationale. Apparently supporters are willing to just brush this silliness off, but am I really the only one that thinks it's weird this is actually how he's marketing himself to outsiders?

Offline antigoon

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #374 on: December 06, 2011, 11:39:17 PM »
Again, there is no "colors theory". I am not trying to say Ron Paul is a Nazi. I am simply asking, while every other politician is trying to convince you they piss red white and blue, Ron Paul is gearing his campaign in such a way that seems to cater to monster-truck fans who might or might not be skinheads, too. I'm not making any claims that need defending here, I'm just asking for a rationale. Apparently supporters are willing to just brush this silliness off, but am I really the only one that thinks it's weird this is actually how he's marketing himself to outsiders?

I don't think those X-Treme ads were meant to cater to anyone but the red meat Spike TV crowd.

But yes, they are silly.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #375 on: December 07, 2011, 07:50:55 AM »
Again, there is no "colors theory". I am not trying to say Ron Paul is a Nazi. I am simply asking, while every other politician is trying to convince you they piss red white and blue, Ron Paul is gearing his campaign in such a way that seems to cater to monster-truck fans who might or might not be skinheads, too. I'm not making any claims that need defending here, I'm just asking for a rationale. Apparently supporters are willing to just brush this silliness off, but am I really the only one that thinks it's weird this is actually how he's marketing himself to outsiders?

I don't think those X-Treme ads were meant to cater to anyone but the red meat Spike TV crowd.

But yes, they are silly.

It's not just silly, it's factually bankrupt.  You can't cut $1 Trillion from a $1.3 Trillion budget especially when almost $600 Billion of that budget is the military.  If "people who failed 4th grade mathematics" is a good constituency, then he's right on the money  :tup

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #376 on: December 07, 2011, 08:32:00 AM »
He actually was pressed on that point quite a bit during the Huckabee forum, and he didn't really seem to be able to back-up the claim. He just kept saying stuff like "well, we do, you just have to look at it, but the real issue is" aka averting the question to talk about something else, as per usual.

Maybe it's just because I've followed him more than any other living politician, but I feel like because I know him and his rhetoric and his way of dodging questions better than the others, he's starting to seem especially annoying to me.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #377 on: December 07, 2011, 09:01:41 AM »
He actually was pressed on that point quite a bit during the Huckabee forum, and he didn't really seem to be able to back-up the claim. He just kept saying stuff like "well, we do, you just have to look at it, but the real issue is" aka averting the question to talk about something else, as per usual.

Maybe it's just because I've followed him more than any other living politician, but I feel like because I know him and his rhetoric and his way of dodging questions better than the others, he's starting to seem especially annoying to me.

The thing with Ron Paul is he's always been a typical politician.  The mythology about him that he has some higher moral standards than any of the others really just comes from a couple of issues he's been vocal about, particularly his stance against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which flew directly in the face of Bush & Company's neoconservative war-for-profit model of governance. 

Other than that and the fact that he's a fairly strict isolationist, he's just a typical politician who will say whatever he needs to say in order to get elected, and frankly, in the last few debates he's sounded very much like a senile old man who can't put a coherent thought together.

Offline slycordinator

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #378 on: December 07, 2011, 09:42:46 AM »
Other than that and the fact that he's a fairly strict isolationist, he's just a typical politician who will say whatever he needs to say in order to get elected, and frankly, in the last few debates he's sounded very much like a senile old man who can't put a coherent thought together.
I saw an interview of his on some Hispanic tv news show and he had been talking about needing to be stronger on immigration and such. The interviewer asked him why he doesn't give a different message for the Latino voters and he responded that he shouldn't placate people by giving them a different, inconsistent message just to get their votes. That's quite clearly not "saying what he needs to say in order to get elected."

Offline antigoon

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #379 on: December 07, 2011, 10:01:47 AM »
Can't believe how much people are gushing over Obama's speech yesterday in Kansas. Like he's never used empty, meaningless populist rhetoric before.

Yeah, those big banks! Look what they did! It's wrong! Even though I take all their money and appoint their former executives and lapdogs to high level positions in my administration, you can bet I'll do my darndest to fight for you!

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #380 on: December 07, 2011, 12:13:53 PM »
I don't know if anyone's seen this Rick Perry ad yet, but it's really amazing how 'no holds barred' electoral politics has gotten lately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PAJNntoRgA
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #381 on: December 07, 2011, 12:29:41 PM »
I saw that ad this morning.   

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #382 on: December 07, 2011, 12:33:40 PM »
Other than that and the fact that he's a fairly strict isolationist, he's just a typical politician who will say whatever he needs to say in order to get elected, and frankly, in the last few debates he's sounded very much like a senile old man who can't put a coherent thought together.
I saw an interview of his on some Hispanic tv news show and he had been talking about needing to be stronger on immigration and such. The interviewer asked him why he doesn't give a different message for the Latino voters and he responded that he shouldn't placate people by giving them a different, inconsistent message just to get their votes. That's quite clearly not "saying what he needs to say in order to get elected."
Yeah, right, because he definitely wasn't telling that audience exactly what he knew they wanted to hear.  Nope, Ron Paul is the second coming of George Washington.

Offline emindead

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #383 on: December 07, 2011, 12:55:26 PM »
Nosehair, please.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #384 on: December 07, 2011, 12:58:09 PM »
Please what?  Bow at the Paultard temple?  No thanks.