Author Topic: Election 2012  (Read 231731 times)

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Offline El Barto

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #245 on: November 10, 2011, 08:20:21 PM »
Yeah,  I'm starting to see this as a bigger Obama victory than I had previously thought.  Romney's the guy who could do well against him,  but with the Republicans trying their damnedest to avoid nominating him,  he's going to go into the general election pretty lame.  If it had just become a Romney vs. Perry fight,  it'd have been ugly,  but people would be rallying behind him right now.  Instead,  he'll get the anti-Obama vote,  which will be strong,  but very little support of his own. 

Hey, I'm a liberal registered Democrat, but let me tell you something:  Obama is not going to "crush" anyone.  He's got a very difficult re-election campaign ahead of him.  I think he has a decent chance of winning, and I want him to win because I don't want any more right-wingers appointed to the SCOTUS, but the facts are pretty clear.....this election is going to be a close call.

The only two justices who might come up for replacement are Ginsburg and Kennedy.  I think Kennedy's got quite a lot of judging left in him,  and Ginsburg will probably retire after this term.  Looking back,  supreme court justices like to retire when their side is in office.  Souter retired when their was a Republican to replace him*.  Same thing with O'connor.  She was quite clear that she wanted to retire under a Republican president (which might actually have been a factor in Bush v. Gore).  If it looks like Obama might not get reelected,  you'll see Ginsburg hang it up.  If he's a shoe in,  as I suspect he will be,  she might tough it out a bit longer,  but health's going to force her out pretty soon.  Either way,  she won't be around for another term if it means retiring under a GOP president.

*Despite their hatred of him,  Souter remained a die-hard republican.  He was just an old-school type,  rather than the right-wing whack job that the GOP seems to crave, nowadays. 
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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #246 on: November 13, 2011, 08:11:11 AM »
lolbachmann on why China is better than the US "welfare state":

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/12/michele-bachmann-us-china-socialist_n_1090688.html
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #247 on: November 13, 2011, 08:38:27 AM »
I posted this in the "is Christianity bad for the US" thread, but it is hilarious seeing these debaters criticizing Obama's foreign policy from the right. They come off as psychopaths.

Also, I'm glad Ron Paul pointed out the glaring hypocrisy that is "not trusting the government," yet fully supporting due process free assassinations of Americans, just 'cos some secret panel at the White House said he was guilty.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #248 on: November 13, 2011, 08:44:57 AM »
I posted this in the "is Christianity bad for the US" thread, but it is hilarious seeing these debaters criticizing Obama's foreign policy from the right. They come off as psychopaths.

Also, I'm glad Ron Paul pointed out the glaring hypocrisy that is "not trusting the government," yet fully supporting due process free assassinations of Americans, just 'cos some secret panel at the White House said he was guilty.

I think I get the context of that one (the guy killed in Yemen), but who is he describing in the not trusting the gov't part?
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #249 on: November 13, 2011, 08:52:54 AM »
I mean...all of them. They're all anti big government unless it involves war or corporate welfare. 

edit: except Huntsman.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #250 on: November 13, 2011, 09:35:05 AM »
Oh, I thought he was referring to the constituency, my bad.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #251 on: November 13, 2011, 10:11:09 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vm7yNWYyRw

OMG, Rick Perry is an idiot frothing at the mouth.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #252 on: November 13, 2011, 12:52:12 PM »
 
Also, I'm glad Ron Paul pointed out the glaring hypocrisy that is "not trusting the government," yet fully supporting due process free assassinations of Americans, just 'cos some secret panel at the White House said he was guilty.

I remember when Obama was running for President, and someone for his campaign was at our school; there was a pic in the school newspaper of a conservative asking a question of why government should be trusted, etc... he was wearing an "ARMY" t-shirt.  :facepalm:

Jon Stewart got Bill Krystal at one point to admit that the US government gives it's soldiers the best health care system in the world, through the VA, at a time when Krystal was attacking any idea of having the government involved with health care becuase it would give worse results.

Offline jsem

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #253 on: November 13, 2011, 03:05:23 PM »
Ron Paul had like four minutes of speaking time. I'm calling BS on that entire debate. It was all Romney acting like the boss, Hermain Cain making an idiot out of himself on being "clear" about the Pakis, Perry fumbling with his words as usual.

Everyone was war-mongering, and they didn't even let Paul speak out against it that much. Huntsman is also the guy on the stage with real experience in the field, though he can't talk sense into the ignorants in the crowds.

It's sad.

I mean...all of them. They're all anti big government unless it involves war or corporate welfare. 

edit: except Huntsman.
Excuse me? Ron Paul is pro-war and pro-corporatism?

Offline antigoon

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #254 on: November 13, 2011, 03:32:13 PM »
Ron Paul had like four minutes of speaking time. I'm calling BS on that entire debate. It was all Romney acting like the boss, Hermain Cain making an idiot out of himself on being "clear" about the Pakis, Perry fumbling with his words as usual.

Everyone was war-mongering, and they didn't even let Paul speak out against it that much. Huntsman is also the guy on the stage with real experience in the field, though he can't talk sense into the ignorants in the crowds.

It's sad.

I mean...all of them. They're all anti big government unless it involves war or corporate welfare. 

edit: except Huntsman.
Excuse me? Ron Paul is pro-war and pro-corporatism?

No, see my post before that one.

Offline jsem

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #255 on: November 13, 2011, 04:06:02 PM »

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #256 on: November 13, 2011, 04:14:31 PM »
Ron Paul had like four minutes of speaking time. I'm calling BS on that entire debate. It was all Romney acting like the boss, Hermain Cain making an idiot out of himself on being "clear" about the Pakis, Perry fumbling with his words as usual.

It was actually like 90 seconds.

Offline jsem

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #257 on: November 15, 2011, 08:23:42 AM »
Even worse actually. And Jon Huntsman should've been asked all questions FIRST about China.

Offline emindead

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #258 on: November 15, 2011, 09:15:58 AM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-15/romney-two-way-race-is-now-four-way-republican-dead-heat-in-iowa-caucuses.html

A Bloomberg News poll shows Cain at 20 percent, Paul at 19 percent, Romney at 18 percent and Gingrich at 17 percent among the likely attendees with the caucuses that start the nominating contests seven weeks away.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #259 on: November 15, 2011, 02:06:42 PM »
I wonder how the mainstream media is going ignore Paul here too. It's like the Iowa straw Poll, when he came in like third, and every single organization just passed over his standing, and never talked about him.

Offline jsem

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #260 on: November 15, 2011, 03:48:24 PM »
He was second. Within 1% of Bachmann, who allegedly bought 2000 votes. In the Iowa poll that is. Paul is being ignored here, no doubt.

What I cannot believe is that no one challenged Obama in the primaries. I mean, at least Kucinich could've rallied the base a little and made Obama follow up on some of those promises to protect civil liberties. Real progressives out there have to just go for Obama because he's supposed to be the "lesser evil".

Politics in the US... sad business.

Offline Super Dude

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #261 on: November 15, 2011, 04:36:32 PM »
He is the lesser evil. I'd rather stay in one place (which I don't think we have) than take one step back, and then another, followed by another, rinse and repeat.
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #262 on: November 15, 2011, 05:11:12 PM »
What I cannot believe is that no one challenged Obama in the primaries. I mean, at least Kucinich could've rallied the base a little and made Obama follow up on some of those promises to protect civil liberties. Real progressives out there have to just go for Obama because he's supposed to be the "lesser evil".

Ya, two party politics sucks. I'm glad no one did though, becuase it would only have weakened Obama, and made it more possible for a Republican to win the office.

There is no real left/progressive party in this country anymore. Obama really is more of a conservative, he's not pushing for any new radical American values, despite what the right tries to say about the matter. We've had socialized medicine for a long time now, social security is hardly new, nor are big infrastructure and stimulus projects.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #263 on: November 15, 2011, 06:13:06 PM »
I think I posted a while back about incumbents who faced competition in the primaries,  and it's almost always a gift to the opposition party.  Obama's weak enough as it is.  Any opposition would almost guarantee a Republican president in '12,  and their only real candidates are total whackjobs.  I can't stand Obama's silly ass,  but the thought of Presidents Perry or Cain is just mind-numbing. 
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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #264 on: November 15, 2011, 06:18:50 PM »
I think I posted a while back about incumbents who faced competition in the primaries,  and it's almost always a gift to the opposition party.  Obama's weak enough as it is.  Any opposition would almost guarantee a Republican president in '12,  and their only real candidates are total whackjobs.  I can't stand Obama's silly ass,  but the thought of Presidents Perry or Cain is just mind-numbing.

In the long run both would not make it.  Have you ever seen these kinds of politicians get further along in any primaries except Ross Perot? 
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #265 on: November 15, 2011, 06:30:51 PM »
But who does that leave? Romney? Gingrich? Romney flip flips so much, I don't trust any position he actually holds to be his true one, and imagine he has some secret agenda's in mind. Gingrich is just as bad; remember, you can't quote what he said, or you're lying.


Offline Super Dude

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #266 on: November 15, 2011, 07:23:08 PM »
Romney's for sure gonna win primaries though, considering he isn't totally out there like a lot of them.
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #267 on: November 15, 2011, 08:04:46 PM »
What I cannot believe is that no one challenged Obama in the primaries. I mean, at least Kucinich could've rallied the base a little and made Obama follow up on some of those promises to protect civil liberties. Real progressives out there have to just go for Obama because he's supposed to be the "lesser evil".

Politics in the US... sad business.

I agree. He does not deserve to get off so easily.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #268 on: November 16, 2011, 12:11:52 PM »
He was second. Within 1% of Bachmann, who allegedly bought 2000 votes. In the Iowa poll that is. Paul is being ignored here, no doubt.

What I cannot believe is that no one challenged Obama in the primaries. I mean, at least Kucinich could've rallied the base a little and made Obama follow up on some of those promises to protect civil liberties. Real progressives out there have to just go for Obama because he's supposed to be the "lesser evil".

Politics in the US... sad business.

Challenging an incumbent is a recipe for disaster.  See: Jimmy Carter

No good would come of it for the Democrats, and you might as well hand the white house to the Republicans. 

Offline jsem

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #269 on: November 16, 2011, 12:40:53 PM »
He was second. Within 1% of Bachmann, who allegedly bought 2000 votes. In the Iowa poll that is. Paul is being ignored here, no doubt.

What I cannot believe is that no one challenged Obama in the primaries. I mean, at least Kucinich could've rallied the base a little and made Obama follow up on some of those promises to protect civil liberties. Real progressives out there have to just go for Obama because he's supposed to be the "lesser evil".

Politics in the US... sad business.

Challenging an incumbent is a recipe for disaster.  See: Jimmy Carter

No good would come of it for the Democrats, and you might as well hand the white house to the Republicans. 
I'm not talking about challenging him for the sake of actually trying to win, but get him closer to his base. It'd make people not to casually accept Obama just because he's a dem.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #270 on: November 16, 2011, 01:19:22 PM »
Irrelevant, I'm afraid.  A primary challenge is damaging to an incumbent.  Doesn't matter WHY you do it, it matters THAT you do it.  And when it is done, it weakens the incumbent.  Again, I refer you to Jimmy Carter. 

Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #271 on: November 16, 2011, 09:31:03 PM »
What "base" does Obama need to get closer to? Appeasing to the hardcore lefties is a lost cause, and is exactly what the GOP is struggling with right now on their side with the hardcore right-wingers.

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Offline Super Dude

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #272 on: November 16, 2011, 10:06:12 PM »
What "base" does Obama need to get closer to? Appeasing to the hardcore lefties is a lost cause, and is exactly what the GOP is struggling with right now on their side with the hardcore right-wingers.

rumborak

They are? I haven't really been paying attention to the GOP stuff, what's been happening?
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #273 on: November 16, 2011, 10:08:09 PM »
It's why Romney is having such a hard time.

Offline TL

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #274 on: November 16, 2011, 10:15:11 PM »
How the hell is Gingrich gaining so much ground? I thought people had already realized that he was a terrible choice.

It's mind numbing that Huntsman can't seem to get more support. I guess that's what happens when you don't say batshit crazy things just to pander and get attention.

As has been pretty clear for a while now, Romney is going to get the nomination. Out of the current field, he is one of the better choices, and while I don't really like him, I can at least say that the idea of a Romney presidency isn't actively terrifying.

Offline Scheavo

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #275 on: November 16, 2011, 10:53:42 PM »
What "base" does Obama need to get closer to? Appeasing to the hardcore lefties is a lost cause, and is exactly what the GOP is struggling with right now on their side with the hardcore right-wingers.

rumborak

They are? I haven't really been paying attention to the GOP stuff, what's been happening?

Romney supported the Union killing bill in Ohio, and the Personhood Amendment in Mississippi. Both failed horribly.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #276 on: November 17, 2011, 01:42:14 AM »
What "base" does Obama need to get closer to? Appeasing to the hardcore lefties is a lost cause, and is exactly what the GOP is struggling with right now on their side with the hardcore right-wingers.

rumborak

They are? I haven't really been paying attention to the GOP stuff, what's been happening?

In general I mean. Over the years the GOP has schmoozed so much with their hardcore right-wingers (and the Tea Partiers), that now any sign of being moderate is viewed as weak and back-paddling. They essentially wrote the anti-Climate Change and anti-Evolution on their banner, and now they have to put up with the loony presidential candidates who will push for that stuff.

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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #277 on: November 17, 2011, 08:00:27 AM »
How the hell is Gingrich gaining so much ground?

He's the chosen "Not Romney Flavor of the Week" right now.

Offline MasterShakezula

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #278 on: November 17, 2011, 11:10:18 AM »
Will Ron Paul get to be a flavour of the week?

Offline pogoowner

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Re: Election 2012
« Reply #279 on: November 17, 2011, 12:11:54 PM »
Will Ron Paul get to be a flavour of the week?
Never.