Author Topic: Election 2012  (Read 231780 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rumborak

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 26664
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #210 on: October 28, 2011, 09:35:59 PM »
The only thing needing to be banned is the obsession with the Fed. It's getting to the level of a witch hunt.
If you want to legislate something, legislate something like the EU passed a few days ago: increasing the mandatory bank cash reserve to 9%. One of the major causes of the financial collapse was that banks couldn't deal with the shock to the system that the collapse of the housing market brought.

rumbrak
"I liked when Myung looked like a women's figure skating champion."

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #211 on: October 28, 2011, 09:40:41 PM »
Well sure, but that's where it's all aimed at; it's why political scientists call it the perpetual campaign.

I'm saying this logic is cynical, not that it's wrong. It means you can't distinguish between someone who actually has the country at heart, and is ruling how he thinks is good, and getting elected because he does a good job, and someone who's policies are purely aimed at re-election. It's like the argument for human selfishness, you can spin any story to show how someone is being selfish even in an act of altruism.


Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #212 on: October 28, 2011, 11:21:17 PM »
I don't think it's supposed to reflect any sort of cynicism (I'm not, at least), although I can see why coming to that conclusion about the presidency might lead to it.
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #213 on: October 30, 2011, 01:46:00 PM »
news.yahoo.com/studies-challenge-wisdom-gop-candidates-plans-124434243.html

Quote
Consider proposed cuts in taxes and regulation, which nearly every GOP candidate is pushing in the name of creating jobs. The initiatives seem to ignore surveys in which employers cite far bigger impediments to increased hiring, chiefly slack consumer demand.
...
The Bureau of Labor Statistics, which tracks companies' reasons for large layoffs, found that 1,119 layoffs were attributed to government regulations in the first half of this year, while 144,746 were attributed to poor "business demand."
...
Small businesses rate "poor sales" as their biggest problem, with government regulations ranking second, according to a survey by the National Federation of Independent Businesses. Of the small businesses saying this is not a good time to expand, half cited the poor economy as the chief reason. Thirteen percent named the "political climate."
....
The candidates have said little about another national problem: depressed home prices, as well as the high numbers of foreclosures and borrowers who owe more than their houses are worth.

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #214 on: October 30, 2011, 02:29:41 PM »
In other news:



:lol
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline 73109

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4999
  • Gender: Male
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #215 on: October 30, 2011, 02:30:52 PM »
:rollin

Offline MasterShakezula

  • Posts: 3733
  • Owes H $10
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #216 on: October 30, 2011, 02:32:54 PM »
An account would be quite the juicy bit.   :lol

What I'd really like to see is a full set of pics. 

Offline ClairvoyantCat

  • DT is no longer Majesty.
  • Posts: 3185
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #217 on: October 30, 2011, 02:36:47 PM »
A million dollars? 

Hot damn, all I need are some semen samples. 

Online El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30569
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #218 on: October 30, 2011, 03:03:55 PM »
I believe that's been a standing offer for any Republicans for years.  Nothing new here except that he's singling out a specific Republican (and not increasing the bounty).
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Perpetual Change

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 12264
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #219 on: November 09, 2011, 10:14:19 PM »
This pretty much sums up Rick Perry's debate performance tonight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUA2rDVrmNg

Offline MasterShakezula

  • Posts: 3733
  • Owes H $10
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #220 on: November 09, 2011, 10:15:44 PM »
Yeah, he's not getting that nomination.

Offline livehard

  • Posts: 311
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #221 on: November 09, 2011, 10:18:11 PM »
The only thing needing to be banned is the obsession with the Fed. It's getting to the level of a witch hunt.
If you want to legislate something, legislate something like the EU passed a few days ago: increasing the mandatory bank cash reserve to 9%. One of the major causes of the financial collapse was that banks couldn't deal with the shock to the system that the collapse of the housing market brought.

rumbrak

The problem with that is that when you raise reserves, you basically can't do as much banking.  You're going to hear in a couple weeks about BNP and SocGen doing massive layoffs.  Its basically because of the cost of debt is raising, and their reservce requirement through the BASIL acts are locking up their cash.  To try to get around this banks will basically take things off balance sheet, but it still isnt enough to negate the cost of regulation.

Edit: What I think is that auditors aren't doing their jobs.  If you are going to have regulartory accounting, there needs to be more description in the financials concerning the securities & derivatives that the banks holds.  There are some stress tests but they dont go far enough and should be more explictly descirbed in the finacial statements.  Sooner or later though the shareholders need to really understand what the hell is going on in their company.  There's no excuses why shareholders should be shocked that they have billions of exposure on anything.  Shareholders need to take accountability too, they need to know what they are investing in.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2011, 10:41:24 PM by livehard »

Offline livehard

  • Posts: 311
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #222 on: November 09, 2011, 10:24:08 PM »
To me I think its clear that Gengrich is the most well spoken, coherent of all the candidates.  Along with Ron Paul, I think he's the only that seems to have some sort of moral philosophy from which he derives his political beliefs.  While I think that any of them would be better than Obama, I think that Gengrich & Paul are the only ones that will bring me to the polls election time.

Offline TL

  • Posts: 2793
  • Gender: Male
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #223 on: November 10, 2011, 12:03:21 AM »
To me I think its clear that Gengrich is the most well spoken, coherent of all the candidates.  Along with Ron Paul, I think he's the only that seems to have some sort of moral philosophy from which he derives his political beliefs.  While I think that any of them would be better than Obama, I think that Gengrich & Paul are the only ones that will bring me to the polls election time.
Did we watch the same debate? Or the same Gingrich in that debate?

The best performance in tonight's debate was easily John Huntsman. He doesn't have a chance at the nomination though because he isn't willing to say crazy things to pander.

With Perry, that was just... wow. Watching it live, you could actually feel his campaign dying.

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #224 on: November 10, 2011, 12:27:15 AM »
So what do people make of last nights election results? Wasn't very good for Republican policies, at least a lot of the mainstream stuff you hear by Republican candidates who stand a chance in the primaries. They've all had to pander and say some crazy things thus far, Romney basically backtracks on everything, and the reasonable one's seem to never get attention. I think the two party system is basically going to ensure Obama's reelection.


Offline MasterShakezula

  • Posts: 3733
  • Owes H $10
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #225 on: November 10, 2011, 12:35:10 AM »
I think Romney's going to get the nom because he hasn't become a nutty flavor of the month like Bachman/Perry/Cain, and he isn't hopelessly obscure to the average Joe like Huntsman or Paul (not like Paul'd get it if he was more well-known; it seems like some view him as a threat or something).

Honestly I fail to see what would be drastically different about a GOP gov 13-17 vs a Dem gov.   Seems either way, the GOP gets its way.

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #226 on: November 10, 2011, 12:36:53 AM »
This pretty much sums up Rick Perry's debate performance tonight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUA2rDVrmNg

 :lol

I remember hearing he had back surgery, or some sort. I'm really thinking the mans high on painkillers...

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8521
  • Gender: Male
  • Bryce & Kylie's Grandpa
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #227 on: November 10, 2011, 08:06:31 AM »
Perry is finished as a candidate. 

I really think Romney is going to end up with the nomination. 

I also think Obama is going to be re-elected


Offline jsem

  • Posts: 4912
  • Gender: Male
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #228 on: November 10, 2011, 08:47:17 AM »
LOLPERRY!

I sincerely also hope Gingrich does not get the nomination.

Offline livehard

  • Posts: 311
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #229 on: November 10, 2011, 09:08:27 AM »
I didn't find huntsman impressive at all... He didnt make much sense at all when he talked about the Fed.  Gingirch does two things I like - he asnwers the questions coherently, and then yells at the moderators when they try to cut him off  :lol

Offline jsem

  • Posts: 4912
  • Gender: Male
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #230 on: November 10, 2011, 10:48:32 AM »
Gingrich just wants to be a smartass and try to evade questions. Truth to this is also that NO ONE answers the questions properly, especially not Cain. He always tries to tie everything to 666.

Huntsman is a very reasonable candidate too, it's sad that most of the electorate won't even consider him because he's not a tr00 conservative.

Offline TL

  • Posts: 2793
  • Gender: Male
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #231 on: November 10, 2011, 10:52:52 AM »
I didn't find huntsman impressive at all... He didnt make much sense at all when he talked about the Fed.  Gingirch does two things I like - he asnwers the questions coherently, and then yells at the moderators when they try to cut him off  :lol
Just so you know, answers aren't incoherent just because you disagree with them. Huntsman by far gave the most coherent and intelligent answers of the night.

Gingrich is that kid in the class who thinks he's way smarter than he actually is, and feigns arrogance to cover it up.

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8521
  • Gender: Male
  • Bryce & Kylie's Grandpa
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #232 on: November 10, 2011, 11:27:32 AM »
I'd be thrilled if Gingrich got the nomination.  That would pretty much guarantee an Obama victory.  Gingrich doesn't poll very strongly in any of the battleground states.  The BEST chance of beating Obama is Romney, and even Romney is a crap shoot because of his Mormonism which will prevent a wide swath of the Christian right from voting for him.  When Perry first got in, I really thought he was going to be a formidable candidate, I had no idea he was about as sharp as a bowling ball.  :lol

Offline jsem

  • Posts: 4912
  • Gender: Male
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #233 on: November 10, 2011, 11:36:58 AM »
Lol. The best Perry had to say was "oops".

I was cracking up there. It must've been SO embarrassing for Perry.

Offline livehard

  • Posts: 311
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #234 on: November 10, 2011, 12:40:02 PM »
Just so you know, answers aren't incoherent just because you disagree with them. Huntsman by far gave the most coherent and intelligent answers of the night.

Ah is that how it works? That must be right, because as you know Im incapable of saying I disagree with things... Thats something as you know Ive struggled with...

Offline livehard

  • Posts: 311
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #235 on: November 10, 2011, 12:44:32 PM »
I'd be thrilled if Gingrich got the nomination.  That would pretty much guarantee an Obama victory.  Gingrich doesn't poll very strongly in any of the battleground states.  The BEST chance of beating Obama is Romney, and even Romney is a crap shoot because of his Mormonism which will prevent a wide swath of the Christian right from voting for him.  When Perry first got in, I really thought he was going to be a formidable candidate, I had no idea he was about as sharp as a bowling ball.  :lol

Perry doens't seem to sharp on the draw.  But i dont think that Gingrich vs. obama would be an easy victory, if they were to set up some debates that were actually debates (not those telivised mini speeches they have now) Gingrich would sway a good amount of the American people.

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8521
  • Gender: Male
  • Bryce & Kylie's Grandpa
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #236 on: November 10, 2011, 12:55:08 PM »
I'd be thrilled if Gingrich got the nomination.  That would pretty much guarantee an Obama victory.  Gingrich doesn't poll very strongly in any of the battleground states.  The BEST chance of beating Obama is Romney, and even Romney is a crap shoot because of his Mormonism which will prevent a wide swath of the Christian right from voting for him.  When Perry first got in, I really thought he was going to be a formidable candidate, I had no idea he was about as sharp as a bowling ball.  :lol

Perry doens't seem to sharp on the draw.  But i dont think that Gingrich vs. obama would be an easy victory, if they were to set up some debates that were actually debates (not those telivised mini speeches they have now) Gingrich would sway a good amount of the American people.

Gingrich has too many moral skeletons in his closet to win the nomination anyway.  I mean, this is a guy who was going after Bill Clinton for getting his knob polished while he was cheating on his wife.  You know, his second wife, the one who had just been diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis.  Now he's on to wife #3.  Not exactly the "family values" narrative that carries conservative votes.

He's a bright guy, I'll give you that.   But he's lacking in the charisma area, and since when has intellect carried conservative votes? 

I really though Perry was going to be formidable.  He's not very bright.  Folksy.  Likes guns.  Comes from Texas.....all he had to do was not say....."oops!"  :lol

Romney STILL polls the best against Obama in a head up race and he has a very good command of the facts, he's just got more positions than Kama Sutra
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 01:13:22 PM by kirksnosehair »

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #237 on: November 10, 2011, 01:04:27 PM »
I'd be thrilled if Gingrich got the nomination.  That would pretty much guarantee an Obama victory.  Gingrich doesn't poll very strongly in any of the battleground states.  The BEST chance of beating Obama is Romney, and even Romney is a crap shoot because of his Mormonism which will prevent a wide swath of the Christian right from voting for him.  When Perry first got in, I really thought he was going to be a formidable candidate, I had no idea he was about as sharp as a bowling ball.  :lol

Perry doens't seem to sharp on the draw.  But i dont think that Gingrich vs. obama would be an easy victory, if they were to set up some debates that were actually debates (not those telivised mini speeches they have now) Gingrich would sway a good amount of the American people.

Gingrich has too many moral skeletons in his closet to win the nomination anyway.  I mean, this is a guy who was going after Bill Clinton for getting his knob polished while he was cheating on his wife.  You know, his second wife, the one who had just been diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis.  Now he's on to wife #3.  Not exactly the "family values" narrative that carries conservative votes.

He's a bright guy, I'll give you that.   But he's lacking in the charisma area, and since when has intellect carried conservative votes? 

I really though Perry was going to be formidable.  He's not very bright.  Folksy.  Likes guns.  Comes from Texas.....all he had to do was not say....."oops!"  :lol

Romney STILL polls the best against Obama in a head up race and he has a very good command of the facts, he's just got more positions than Karma Sutra

I'm going to have to use this in a political conversation some time. :D
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8521
  • Gender: Male
  • Bryce & Kylie's Grandpa
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #238 on: November 10, 2011, 01:12:56 PM »
If you do make sure you spell it right, I just noticed that I spelled it wrong  ::)

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #239 on: November 10, 2011, 03:54:58 PM »
None of the likely candidates for Republican could really beat Obama. Obama's gonna demolish all of them on their rhetoric, and the American people are mostly behind the kind of "class warfare" things that Republicans are opposed to. Americans don't consider Corporations people, they think the Rich should pay more in taxes, they want our wars done away with (Obama got shit from Republicans for the Iraq war coming to some sort of end... according to Bush's timeline), and I think Obama's gonna ride the fact that Republicans have been obstructionists his entire term to re-election. He's going to point to all the things he's doing that he has the legal authority to do (foreign policy, student loans, foreclosure statuses, etc) and say your beef isn't with me, it's with the Republicans in Congress. Romney's flipflopped on too many things, Cain would be destroyed by Obama in any debate, Gingrich said you can't quote him or you're lying, Paul won't get the nomination, Huntsman won't get the nomination, and who's left?

I think the American people will actually hear this argument. If we had a better system in place, I don't know if Obama would get reelected, but he's going to be the lesser of two evils.


Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8521
  • Gender: Male
  • Bryce & Kylie's Grandpa
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #240 on: November 10, 2011, 04:01:06 PM »
Hey, I'm a liberal registered Democrat, but let me tell you something:  Obama is not going to "crush" anyone.  He's got a very difficult re-election campaign ahead of him.  I think he has a decent chance of winning, and I want him to win because I don't want any more right-wingers appointed to the SCOTUS, but the facts are pretty clear.....this election is going to be a close call.



Offline jsem

  • Posts: 4912
  • Gender: Male
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #241 on: November 10, 2011, 04:07:48 PM »
Register republican before it's too late and vote for Paul in your primary/caucus.

Offline MasterShakezula

  • Posts: 3733
  • Owes H $10
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #242 on: November 10, 2011, 04:10:57 PM »
I agree that Paul's a solid choice.

However, it seems he's doomed to merely be a spreader of ideas, as the Republican Party seems to view him as a dissident of sorts. 

Offline jsem

  • Posts: 4912
  • Gender: Male
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #243 on: November 10, 2011, 04:16:39 PM »
The two party system is designed to destroy all potential uprisings. Paul has to adopt to the system to spread his views, it's quite sad.

Offline Scheavo

  • Posts: 5444
Re: Election 2012
« Reply #244 on: November 10, 2011, 04:26:51 PM »
Hey, I'm a liberal registered Democrat, but let me tell you something:  Obama is not going to "crush" anyone.  He's got a very difficult re-election campaign ahead of him.  I think he has a decent chance of winning, and I want him to win because I don't want any more right-wingers appointed to the SCOTUS, but the facts are pretty clear.....this election is going to be a close call.

All the Republicans running have basically supported ballot measures that got crushed by 2/3's of the population. Romney supported Ohio's collective bargaining, which got crushed. Supported Mississippi's person hood amendment, which got crushed.

The worst thing going for Obama is the economy, and I honestly think the American people are going to listen to him when he blames it all on the Republicans in Congress.

Oh, and by crushed, I mean like 55% of the vote. It's not going to be a slim margin, I don't think. Obama's a good debater.