Author Topic: Election 2012 (Read 235495 times)

Chino · « **Reply #1295 on:** February 23, 2012, 08:19:36 AM »

Did anyone catch the end of the debate last night? The mod asked each candidate to describe a misconception about themself. MR went off on a totally unrelated answer. The mod repeated the question and MR said something along the lines of "You ask the questions you want to ask, but I'm going to answer the way I want to"... What a fucking dick.

kirksnosehair · « **Reply #1296 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:01:32 AM »

Quote from: PraXis on February 23, 2012, 07:40:49 AM

Obama is a corporatist, just like Bush, Romney, Gingrich, Santorum, etc. Follow the money.

It is true, he's definitely a corporatist. But he won't appoint any more people to the SCOTUS who think "corporations are people" like Alito, Thomas, Scalia, et al. And as far as I'm concerned with all other things considered, for this next election, that's game/set/match for me. I'll be voting for Obama.

rumborak · « **Reply #1297 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:02:56 AM »

Quote from: Chino on February 23, 2012, 08:19:36 AM

Did anyone catch the end of the debate last night? The mod asked each candidate to describe a misconception about themself. MR went off on a totally unrelated answer. The mod repeated the question and MR said something along the lines of "You ask the questions you want to ask, but I'm going to answer the way I want to"... What a fucking dick.

I didn't see it. But, given your description I take it the GOP holocaust happened, with Romney not being able to recapture momentum?

rumborak

antigoon · « **Reply #1298 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:04:20 AM »

Quote from: Chino on February 23, 2012, 08:19:36 AM

Did anyone catch the end of the debate last night? The mod asked each candidate to describe a misconception about themself. MR went off on a totally unrelated answer. The mod repeated the question and MR said something along the lines of "You ask the questions you want to ask, but I'm going to answer the way I want to"... What a fucking dick.

Yeah, that was pretty funny. Newt Gingrich liked it, anyway.

Romney seemed to have the crowd's favor for most of the night, rumbo.

kirksnosehair · « **Reply #1299 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:06:32 AM »

Quote from: Chino on February 23, 2012, 08:19:36 AM

Did anyone catch the end of the debate last night? The mod asked each candidate to describe a misconception about themself. MR went off on a totally unrelated answer. The mod repeated the question and MR said something along the lines of "You ask the questions you want to ask, but I'm going to answer the way I want to"... What a fucking dick.

I think Romney can feel the nomination slipping away from him so he's getting a little bit desperate lately. I have to be honest, I am absolutely astonished that Rick Santorum is getting the attention and love he's getting because as I've already mentioned previously, I don't think he can carry 15 states. If he's the nominee, Obama will win by the biggest landslide since Reagan wiped out Mondale.

One sign I saw last night that some of these conservatives might actually be coming to their senses is when the question came up about "Contraception" (an issue that has basically been settled in the US for about 35 years now, btw) the audience booed pretty loudly. PraXis is 100% correct that if the GOP continues to pound on these social issues, they're handing the election to Obama.

bosk1 · « **Reply #1300 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:15:35 AM »

Quote from: kirksnosehair on February 23, 2012, 09:06:32 AM

One sign I saw last night that some of these conservatives might actually be coming to their senses is when the question came up about "Contraception" (an issue that has basically been settled in the US for about 35 years now, btw) the audience booed pretty loudly. PraXis is 100% correct that if the GOP continues to pound on these social issues, they're handing the election to Obama.

Hard to say. My gut tells me you are correct, which is quite unnerving. However, my head tells me that, as in the past, the social issues are being discussed in such detail at this stage merely to try to differentiate the candidates, but once we have a Republican nominee, a lot of those issues will mostly fade into the background.

On the contraception issue, I actually loved Santorum's answer. Note that he did not say he wanted the government to step in at all. What he said was:

[paraphrase] The way we have looked at contraception in this country is creating lots of other problems that I believe are bad for the country. I think we need to talk about those issues and re-examine them. But I do not think it is the government's job to step in and make any changes.

I mean, really, what's wrong with that position? Although an issue may be "settled" in the minds of many, if there is a legitimate argument that there are problems, why not talk about them and keep a government "hands off" approach at the same time?

rumborak · « **Reply #1301 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:18:57 AM »

The problem is also how fragmented the conservative movement is. You got everybody tugging into a different direction, be it fiscally, socially etc.

rumborak

antigoon · « **Reply #1302 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:22:53 AM »

I worry that these endless GOP debates are helping to even further shift the national dialogue down the neoconservative path. Everyone up there is speaking in such extremes right now.

I feel physically ill every time they talk about war with Iran.

kirksnosehair · « **Reply #1303 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:25:31 AM »

Quote from: bosk1 on February 23, 2012, 09:15:35 AM

Quote from: kirksnosehair on February 23, 2012, 09:06:32 AM
One sign I saw last night that some of these conservatives might actually be coming to their senses is when the question came up about "Contraception" (an issue that has basically been settled in the US for about 35 years now, btw) the audience booed pretty loudly. PraXis is 100% correct that if the GOP continues to pound on these social issues, they're handing the election to Obama.

Hard to say. My gut tells me you are correct, which is quite unnerving. However, my head tells me that, as in the past, the social issues are being discussed in such detail at this stage merely to try to differentiate the candidates, but once we have a Republican nominee, a lot of those issues will mostly fade into the background.

On the contraception issue, I actually loved Santorum's answer. Note that he did not say he wanted the government to step in at all. What he said was:

[paraphrase] The way we have looked at contraception in this country is creating lots of other problems that I believe are bad for the country. I think we need to talk about those issues and re-examine them. But I do not think it is the government's job to step in and make any changes.

I mean, really, what's wrong with that position? Although an issue may be "settled" in the minds of many, if there is a legitimate argument that there are problems, why not talk about them and keep a government "hands off" approach at the same time?

I don't know what "problems" there are? Mostly, I hear guys like Santorum pontificating a bunch of his religious-based views about "morality" and frankly, he's got zero business telling anyone what they should or should not be doing with respect to reproductive health decisions they make. Virtually every woman (99%) in the US have used one or more contraception methods (Pill, IUD, Diaphragm, etc) during their lives. I don't see what there is to talk about, ESPECIALLY by MEN.

Super Dude · « **Reply #1304 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:26:18 AM »

Quote from: antigoon on February 23, 2012, 09:22:53 AM

I worry that these endless GOP debates are helping to even further shift the national dialogue down the neoconservative path. Everyone up there is speaking in such extremes right now.

I feel physically ill every time they talk about war with Iran.

Never even thought of that. That's a bit of a worrying prospect, although I'm not sure how, on the electoral stage, the conversation can be made more moderate. Even if Paul and Obama ended up on the stump together, perhaps the topics under discussion would be more reasonable, but I hardly think the prescribed solutions would be any different.

Quote from: kirksnosehair on February 23, 2012, 09:25:31 AM

Quote from: bosk1 on February 23, 2012, 09:15:35 AM
Quote from: kirksnosehair on February 23, 2012, 09:06:32 AM
One sign I saw last night that some of these conservatives might actually be coming to their senses is when the question came up about "Contraception" (an issue that has basically been settled in the US for about 35 years now, btw) the audience booed pretty loudly. PraXis is 100% correct that if the GOP continues to pound on these social issues, they're handing the election to Obama.

Hard to say. My gut tells me you are correct, which is quite unnerving. However, my head tells me that, as in the past, the social issues are being discussed in such detail at this stage merely to try to differentiate the candidates, but once we have a Republican nominee, a lot of those issues will mostly fade into the background.

On the contraception issue, I actually loved Santorum's answer. Note that he did not say he wanted the government to step in at all. What he said was:

[paraphrase] The way we have looked at contraception in this country is creating lots of other problems that I believe are bad for the country. I think we need to talk about those issues and re-examine them. But I do not think it is the government's job to step in and make any changes.

I mean, really, what's wrong with that position? Although an issue may be "settled" in the minds of many, if there is a legitimate argument that there are problems, why not talk about them and keep a government "hands off" approach at the same time?

I don't know what "problems" there are? Mostly, I hear guys like Santorum pontificating a bunch of his religious-based views about "morality" and frankly, he's got zero business telling anyone what they should or should not be doing with respect to reproductive health decisions they make. Virtually every woman (99%) in the US have used one or more contraception methods (Pill, IUD, Diaphragm, etc) during their lives. I don't see what there is to talk about, ESPECIALLY by MEN.

This. It shouldn't even be an issue. I mean seriously, it's like advocating that we should be using prayer and leeches in place of modern medical science because it disagrees with Christian morality.

bosk1 · « **Reply #1305 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:33:49 AM »

Wow. Okay...

antigoon · « **Reply #1306 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:35:56 AM »

Quote from: Super Dude on February 23, 2012, 09:26:18 AM

Quote from: antigoon on February 23, 2012, 09:22:53 AM
I worry that these endless GOP debates are helping to even further shift the national dialogue down the neoconservative path. Everyone up there is speaking in such extremes right now.

I feel physically ill every time they talk about war with Iran.

Never even thought of that. That's a bit of a worrying prospect, although I'm not sure how, on the electoral stage, the conversation can be made more moderate. Even if Paul and Obama ended up on the stump together, perhaps the topics under discussion would be more reasonable, but I hardly think the prescribed solutions would be any different.

The problem is that there's nothing on the other side to balance it out. The GOP hopefuls are spouting hardcore and (depending on the topic) extreme rhetoric right now and there's just silence from the other side. And even if there was a Democratic race right now there wouldn't be anywhere near the left's equivalent of what the 4 Republicans left are saying.

antigoon · « **Reply #1307 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:41:49 AM »

Also, it's fine to have contrarian views about contraception and sex, I just don't think he's doing himself any favors by way of attracting the female vote by sharing them, especially when you (bosk) say he doesn't even want to change the law regarding them. They're topics people regard as highly personal and private.

Scheavo · « **Reply #1308 on:** February 23, 2012, 01:59:33 PM »

Quote from: PraXis on February 23, 2012, 07:40:49 AM

Obama is a corporatist, just like Bush, Romney, Gingrich, Santorum, etc. Follow the money.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but Congress writes and passes the laws, and where our money goes. I mean, how is it that Obama can get flak for being socialist, and a corporatist?

jsem · « **Reply #1309 on:** February 23, 2012, 02:18:46 PM »

He is a corporatist. I mean, Jack Lew is his COS for heavens sake. He's HARDLY a socialist. The only real progressive in the WH seems to be Michelle.

Scheavo · « **Reply #1310 on:** February 23, 2012, 02:27:39 PM »

Quote from: jsem on February 23, 2012, 02:18:46 PM

He is a corporatist. I mean, Jack Lew is his COS for heavens sake. He's HARDLY a socialist. The only real progressive in the WH seems to be Michelle.

Yet he fought for the Consumer Advocacy Bureau, he wants to end corporate loop holes and tax companies more, he bought back Student Loans, citing not giving money to the middle men as a reason.

He has corporatist beliefs, he has some socialist beliefs, meaning, he's neither. It's ridiculous to call Obama a "corporatist," just as ridiculous as it is to all him a "socialist." If the argument is that some of his policies go about to benefit corporations, my only question is so what, and isn't' that inevitable, under current economic and political conditions?

Super Dude · « **Reply #1311 on:** February 23, 2012, 03:09:32 PM »

Quote from: Scheavo on February 23, 2012, 02:27:39 PM

If the argument is that some of his policies go about to benefit corporations, my only question is so what, and isn't' that inevitable, under current economic and political conditions?

This part is particularly pertinent. I mean look at the battles over the Wall Street reform bills, and the cap-and-trade bills, the health care bills, the debt ceiling bill, so on and so forth. When its form is a scathing remedy to corporate irresponsibility as it enters Congress, corporate heads have a veritable political flame war and representatives and Senators supported by corporate representatives delay the bills via filibuster, threaten to vote them down, call for revisions, etc., all while the populace decries Obama's socialism. The corporate entities affected by those bills won't have it, so the bills don't go to law and instead to negotiation and compromise.

Fast forward to the revised bills, some of which pass, and some that don't. As shown in the previous chain of events, in which corporate disapproval prevented these bills from passing, this was the only way to placate lobbyists and the like, at which point the Congressmen in question agree to pass the bill. They do so by moderating the terms of the legislation, making it more amenable to corporate interests. Yay, the bill passes! And the public declares Obama a corporatist because he panders to corporate interests. Despite the fact that if he continued to bull on with the less amenable/more punitive version of the bill, it most likely wouldn't pass and he'd be branded a socialist. The funniest part of this being that the only role Obama plays in this tale is proposing the bill, if he does so at all. Oftentimes it occurs entirely within the realm of the Congress, and yet he's at fault somehow.

King Postwhore · « **Reply #1312 on:** February 23, 2012, 03:43:52 PM »

What gets me is republicans who think that Santorum is the right call fr the GOP. Are the voters out of their mind?! And what is it about Romney that scares them?! Why does a republican have to be that one "certain" way? The GOP is handing the election over to Obama.

In Obama's first few years, he had the axis power, (House, Senate, Presidency) and had a hard time pushing his agenda with majority power. Now the Reps can't get their act together on who they want and you can see the people who a year ago who were looking to vote out Obama are now having second thoughts.

Talk about dropping the ball GOP.

jsem · « **Reply #1313 on:** February 23, 2012, 04:02:42 PM »

hard time? He barely tried, that's the problem.

Scheavo · « **Reply #1314 on:** February 23, 2012, 05:44:06 PM »

Quote from: jsem on February 23, 2012, 04:02:42 PM

hard time? He barely tried, that's the problem.

Is it his job AND how would you know this?

King Postwhore · « **Reply #1315 on:** February 23, 2012, 07:28:50 PM »

Quote from: jsem on February 23, 2012, 04:02:42 PM

hard time? He barely tried, that's the problem.

Hard to get anything done when your ideals are not backed by your own party. you think he just sat around twiddling his thumbs or just couldn't get anything passed because the Dems just didn't like his policies? I think it's the latter.

Super Dude · « **Reply #1316 on:** February 24, 2012, 12:07:40 AM »

Quote from: kingshmegland on February 23, 2012, 07:28:50 PM

Quote from: jsem on February 23, 2012, 04:02:42 PM
hard time? He barely tried, that's the problem.

Hard to get anything done when your ideals are not backed by your own party. you think he just sat around twiddling his thumbs or just couldn't get anything passed because the Dems just didn't like his policies? I think it's the latter.

This. My post above was basically all about this dilemma.

Riceball · « **Reply #1317 on:** February 24, 2012, 02:38:05 AM »

Lets cut income tax by 20% AND bring the budget deficit down.

That was really cynical of me. At least he's going to cut tax expenditures (concessions). I cant believe you guys have tax breaks for people earning over 200k! Thats asinine, no wonder your fiscal house is bent outta shape, the people with capacity to pay aint paying...

Super Dude · « **Reply #1318 on:** February 24, 2012, 06:40:00 AM »

THANK YOU!

Why is it that everyone in the world except us realizes why our country is in such dire straits right now?

kirksnosehair · « **Reply #1319 on:** February 24, 2012, 06:53:48 AM »

But the job creators

Chino · « **Reply #1320 on:** February 24, 2012, 07:19:54 AM »

Quote from: Super Dude on February 24, 2012, 06:40:00 AM

THANK YOU!

Why is it that everyone in the world except us realizes why our country is in such dire straits right now?

Because our candidates as well as most of the media speak to Americans in a very simplistic manner, very rarely addressing true issues. The public is spoken to as if no one outside of politics has a mentality higher than that of a high schooler.

Super Dude · « **Reply #1321 on:** February 24, 2012, 10:24:31 AM »

Well I wouldn't say no one myself, but I lost faith in the collective intelligence of the public a long, long time ago. After all, there are constituents out there rallying for job creators as strongly as among the pedagogy.

Scheavo · « **Reply #1322 on:** February 24, 2012, 03:48:42 PM »

Quote from: Riceball on February 24, 2012, 02:38:05 AM

Lets cut income tax by 20% AND bring the budget deficit down.

That was really cynical of me. At least he's going to cut tax expenditures (concessions). I cant believe you guys have tax breaks for people earning over 200k! Thats asinine, no wonder your fiscal house is bent outta shape, the people with capacity to pay aint paying...

Apparently, you're a communist, and you probably hail Hitler.

rumborak · « **Reply #1323 on:** February 25, 2012, 05:27:16 PM »

Well, I guess Super Tuesday is just around the corner. Should be interesting.
My projection would be: Total chaos between Romney and Santorum, with no clear winner. Gingrich will get Georgia, Ron Paul will get nothing.

rumborak

TL · « **Reply #1324 on:** February 25, 2012, 08:05:45 PM »

It won't happen, but it would be hilarious if Paul won Virginia. Gingrich and Santorum aren't on the ballot, and it's an open primary, so non-Republicans could go and vote for Paul, on the basis that it would be funny.

kirksnosehair · « **Reply #1325 on:** February 27, 2012, 11:56:36 AM »

Quote from: rumborak on February 25, 2012, 05:27:16 PM

Well, I guess Super Tuesday is just around the corner. Should be interesting.
My projection would be: Total chaos between Romney and Santorum, with no clear winner. Gingrich will get Georgia, Ron Paul will get nothing.

rumborak

Polls are starting to show the momentum heading back in Romney's direction. I think Santorum's 15 minutes are just about over. Note that not a single of his fellow Senators have endorsed him? Not even one? Contrast that to Romney, who never served at the national level, who has 14 endorsements from sitting Senators.

Generally, I agree with you here, but I just think maybe Romney's going to have a little bit more of a decisive day on Super Tuesday than current polling is indicating.

rumborak · « **Reply #1326 on:** February 27, 2012, 01:25:54 PM »

Yeah, with the news of the last few days I kinda retract my statements. I still think Santorum will get a hick state or two, but Romney will probably come out bruised but victorious.
Gingrich and Paul are still out of the race though. Was discussing that today with a coworker; for his sake Paul should call it a day after Super Tuesday's inevitable beating. If he keeps on going he will come across as someone who can't get a message.

rumborak

kirksnosehair · « **Reply #1327 on:** February 27, 2012, 02:09:22 PM »

Some of my friends on another board where we talk about this stuff think Paul is angling for a speaking spot at the convention. Not sure why, but I suppose it would be a nice cap to put on his career....or....something. Gingrich is just an egomaniac.

snapple · « **Reply #1328 on:** February 27, 2012, 02:57:19 PM »

Quote from: rumborak on February 27, 2012, 01:25:54 PM

Yeah, with the news of the last few days I kinda retract my statements. I still think Santorum will get a hick state or two, but Romney will probably come out bruised but victorious.
Gingrich and Paul are still out of the race though. Was discussing that today with a coworker; for his sake Paul should call it a day after Super Tuesday's inevitable beating. If he keeps on going he will come across as someone who can't get a message.

rumborak

Michigan, please vote for Romney. God forbid we're viewed as a hick-state to someone out on the east coast.

jsem · « **Reply #1329 on:** February 27, 2012, 03:54:17 PM »

Quote from: rumborak on February 27, 2012, 01:25:54 PM

Yeah, with the news of the last few days I kinda retract my statements. I still think Santorum will get a hick state or two, but Romney will probably come out bruised but victorious.
Gingrich and Paul are still out of the race though. Was discussing that today with a coworker; for his sake Paul should call it a day after Super Tuesday's inevitable beating. If he keeps on going he will come across as someone who can't get a message.

rumborak

You do know Paul is in it because he has a large forum to spread his message. If it were just for the presidency, his campaign would be a whole lot different. This is an educational campaign.

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Author Topic: Election 2012 (Read 235495 times)