Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album

[Mebert78]

I'm listening to the song "Anybody Listening?" on YouTube right now.  Wow, I forgot how good that song is.  That song "is" Queensryche.  That's a band clicking on all cylinders - lyrically, musically, style, everything.

[Samsara]

I liked the idea behind HITNF and was happy to accept a stripped down album from such a grandiose sounding band. My problem is, that other than a few OK songs, it's just really not that good.

I agree with this as well. bosk brings up a good point about HITNF as well, that things are there, but done in an understated way, very much by design.

But overall, while it does have some tunes I really enjoy a lot - spOOL, Hit the Black, The Voice Inside, Hero -  there are more tunes on there that have PARTS I enjoy, but as a whole, the full song falls flat (Sign of the Times, Reach, You, Saved, etc.)

I would disagree with PC that Queensryche's peak was Mindcrime. I think the album is their best, yes. But from a creative standpoint, they had a "peak cycle" of Mindcrime-Empire-PL that is almost unmatched in succession, by most bands. Those three albums represent what Queensryche is as a band...a band that incorporates metal, mainstream had rock, and more atmospheric/progressive rock, all into one sound...and does it VERY well.

I think if you gave someone Mindcrime and said "this is Queensryche," it would be a serious mistake. You really would need to give them all three of those records I mentioned, because they sum up the entirety of what IS Queensryche, to the fullest extent.

Mindcrime is one peak, but Queensryche had three peaks...each touching upon the different facets of their sound.

Anyway, interesting conversation.

[Samsara]

I'm listening to the song "Anybody Listening?" on YouTube right now.  Wow, I forgot how good that song is.  That song "is" Queensryche.  That's a band clicking on all cylinders - lyrically, musically, style, everything.

Agreed.

[Perpetual Change]

I think if you gave someone Mindcrime and said "this is Queensryche," it would be a serious mistake. You really would need to give them all three of those records I mentioned, because they sum up the entirety of what IS Queensryche, to the fullest extent.

Mindcrime was my first album, and pretty much the only think I knew about QR for years.  So that's probably why I've had so much trouble digesting everything else.

[Samsara]

I think if you gave someone Mindcrime and said "this is Queensryche," it would be a serious mistake. You really would need to give them all three of those records I mentioned, because they sum up the entirety of what IS Queensryche, to the fullest extent.

Mindcrime was my first album, and pretty much the only think I knew about QR for years.  So that's probably why I've had so much trouble digesting everything else.

Interesting. See, with me, I was there with Rage, and sorta ebbed and flowed with them as their sound changed with each record. It's one of the things I find really cool about the original lineup of the band. None of the records sound remotely like the other. Sure, the underpinings of what they are as a band, the essential elements and style of each member, are there. But the style/direction of each record changed significantly with each release. Not many bands do that, IMO.

But I could absolutely see if someone like you had Mindcrime, and fixated on that, with the expectation of the same sort of band doing similar albums later, why Empire and PL would throw you. Absolutely they would. Hell, PL threw me when I got it, at least at first. lol. Part of the fun of being a fan of the original band, however, was digesting the records over time and getting what they were trying to accomplish...and why.

[KevShmev]

I'm listening to the song "Anybody Listening?" on YouTube right now.  Wow, I forgot how good that song is.  That song "is" Queensryche.  That's a band clicking on all cylinders - lyrically, musically, style, everything.

It is awesome.  In fact, I think it might be the best song they've ever done.

  bosk brings up a good point about HITNF as well, that things are there, but done in an understated way, very much by design.

But overall, while it does have some tunes I really enjoy a lot - spOOL, Hit the Black, The Voice Inside, Hero -  there are more tunes on there that have PARTS I enjoy, but as a whole, the full song falls flat (Sign of the Times, Reach, You, Saved, etc.)

I would disagree with PC that Queensryche's peak was Mindcrime. I think the album is their best, yes. But from a creative standpoint, they had a "peak cycle" of Mindcrime-Empire-PL that is almost unmatched in succession, by most bands. Those three albums represent what Queensryche is as a band...a band that incorporates metal, mainstream had rock, and more atmospheric/progressive rock, all into one sound...and does it VERY well.

I think if you gave someone Mindcrime and said "this is Queensryche," it would be a serious mistake. You really would need to give them all three of those records I mentioned, because they sum up the entirety of what IS Queensryche, to the fullest extent.

Mindcrime is one peak, but Queensryche had three peaks...each touching upon the different facets of their sound.

Anyway, interesting conversation.

Agreed about those three albums, and the songs you listed as liking a lot from HITNF are the same ones I like the most.  Nice!

[Dream Team]

I'm listening to the song "Anybody Listening?" on YouTube right now.  Wow, I forgot how good that song is.  That song "is" Queensryche.  That's a band clicking on all cylinders - lyrically, musically, style, everything.

Agreed.

My favorite QR song as well.

[KevShmev]

Ya know, this reminds me, does QR have a consensus small group of songs that the fan base generally considers their best?  It always seems like fans are all over the place with favorite songs. 

[Nick]

I'd say Take Hold of the Flame and Walk in the Shadows would generally be the top 2.

[TAC]

My Top 10 would be:

Roads To Madness
Deliverance
NM 156
Speak
Anybody Listening?
Queen Of The Ryche
Screaming In Digital
Eyes Of A Stranger
No Sanctuary
The Mission

[Mebert78]

You guys got me checking out The Warning and Rage for Order song on YouTube today at work.  I typically do not listen often to those albums all that much because they do have a bit of a dated 1980s production sound in my opinion, similar to DT's WDADU.  But I do give them an occasional spin.  Man, those songs kick-ass.  There is a sonic sound to the music and vocals and the band sounds so hungry and aggressive.  I also personally think Geoff is one of the best and most consistent lyricists around.  Looking back on these songs makes me cringe even more at the whole cabaret thing.  Ugh. 

[TAC]

To me, Warning IS Queensryche. I know I'm in the minority. But it was just such a different kind of album at the time.

[King Postwhore]

To me, Warning IS Queensryche. I know I'm in the minority. But it was just such a different kind of album at the time.

TAC, did you see them open up for Kiss in 1984?

[TAC]

No I did not. That was in the time that Kiss was not allowed to play in Providence. That tour was in Worcester and it was too far for my parents to let me go. I distictly remember listening to WAAF's Concert Recreation that night, being very pissed off! If that tour came to Providence I might have had a chance if it was not on a school night.

[King Postwhore]

No I did not. That was in the time that Kiss was not allowed to play in Providence. That tour was in Worcester and it was too far for my parents to let me go. I distictly remember listening to WAAF's Concert Recreation that night, being very pissed off! If that tour came to Providence I might have had a chance if it was not on a school night.

That show made me go out and buy The Warning.  Top 20 show for me.  It's great when the opening band kicks ass and keep the momentum going for the headliner.

[TAC]

I had the Warning as soon as it came out. I was already a huge fan from having the EP.
You have to check out Samsara's site. He has a lot of the old clippings, posters, and newsletters posted from that time period.
I had the Hot Metal poster from Capitol Records featuring Iron Maiden, Queensryche and Helix hanging in my bedroom.

[LudwigVan]

I had the Warning as soon as it came out. I was already a huge fan from having the EP.

Ditto for me.  I was all over The Warning when it was 1st released.  One of the defining metal albums of the 80s.

[TAC]

I had the Warning as soon as it came out. I was already a huge fan from having the EP.

Ditto for me.  I was all over The Warning when it was 1st released.  One of the defining metal albums of the 80s.

But Queensryche proved very early on just how elusive they would be. When Rage For Order came out, I was like..WTF is this??

[Samsara]

re: top songs - not really. Most fans are all over the map. I think standbys like Roads to Madness, Take Hold, Walk in the Shadows are all in most peoples' "favorites" roster, along with The Mission and some of the Mindcrime material. After that, it's really a mixed bag.

Even for me, it's hard to do a "top-10" list. In no particular order, here are some of my all-time favs:

NM 156
Take Hold of the Flame
Roads to Madness
Walk in the Shadows
Screaming in Digital
Eyes of a Stranger (w/Anarchy-X reprise)
Empire
Anybody Listening?
Damaged
Promised Land
spOOL
Desert Dance
Art of Life

Those are all original lineup songs. I could probably narrow that to 10, which would be a first, but there are a ton of cuts I left off.

I have some favs from the non-original lineup works as well:

Howl
Liquid Sky
When the Rain Comes
Murderer
Hostage (although I prefer the original lineup demo better, with Wilton's guitar solo and no Mike Stone on the track)
At 30,000 Ft.
A Dead Man's Words

Agreed on The Warning. It took what Maiden was doing at the time, and injected Tate's progressive music flair into it. If the EP was treading on Maiden/Priest ground (which it did), then The Warning took QR to a whole new level. Particularly NM 156.

[LudwigVan]

I had the Warning as soon as it came out. I was already a huge fan from having the EP.

Ditto for me.  I was all over The Warning when it was 1st released.  One of the defining metal albums of the 80s.

But Queensryche proved very early on just how elusive they would be. When Rage For Order came out, I was like..WTF is this??

But that's part of the beauty of Queensryche.  I had the same basic reaction to Rage For Order that you did.  And it's taken me years to come back to RFO and finally appreciate it for the great album that it is.

[Samsara]

You guys got me checking out The Warning and Rage for Order song on YouTube today at work.  I typically do not listen often to those albums all that much because they do have a bit of a dated 1980s production sound in my opinion, similar to DT's WDADU.  But I do give them an occasional spin.  Man, those songs kick-ass.  There is a sonic sound to the music and vocals and the band sounds so hungry and aggressive.  I also personally think Geoff is one of the best and most consistent lyricists around.  Looking back on these songs makes me cringe even more at the whole cabaret thing.  Ugh. 

A little factoid most fans don't know...The Warning was meant to be heard entirely differently.

When the band approved everything, the original mix and track order were:

1. NM 156
2. En Force
3. Deliverance
4. No Sanctuary
5. Take Hold of the Flame
6. Before the Storm
7. Child of Fire
8. Warning
9. Roads to Madness

The mix was very guitar-heavy, with vocals lower in the mix.

BUT, once the band approved it and was on tour, EMI took the record, had it remixed by Val Garay, who buried the guitars and raised the vocals, and re-ordered the track sequence so that "Warning" (the first single) was the first track on the record.

Simply put - that was a BAD move, and the band was PISSED. So those of you with MP3 players...resequence The Warning to the track order above, and you get the order the BAND wanted you to hear...maybe not the mix, but at least you get the track order.

And frankly, that is one of the absolute best opening salvos to any album, of all-time, in my opinion. They lose me after Take Hold, mostly because I don't find Before the Storm, Child of FIre and Warning to be as strong as the first five songs...but then the capper of Roads to Madness, as we all know, is EPIC.

[bosk1]

I've been meaning to listen to it in that sequence for a while, but have never gotten around to it.  I agree that it's pretty cool.  But, honestly, for most "metal fans" at the time, if you were hearing the band for the first time and the first song you heard was NM156, your reaction very well might be, "er...uh...what is this?" Which might very well likely be followed by you tossing the cassette into the waste basket, which would be a real shame.  I just don't think a lot of people would "get it" and wouldn't take the time to "get it."  Not back then anyway.

[Samsara]

I've been meaning to listen to it in that sequence for a while, but have never gotten around to it.  I agree that it's pretty cool.  But, honestly, for most "metal fans" at the time, if you were hearing the band for the first time and the first song you heard was NM156, your reaction very well might be, "er...uh...what is this?" Which might very well likely be followed by you tossing the cassette into the waste basket, which would be a real shame.  I just don't think a lot of people would "get it" and wouldn't take the time to "get it."  Not back then anyway.

I disagree. It sounds creepy and cool as a beginning, even back in the early 1980s, and when the guitars kick in, it kicks all sorts of a**. Plus, The Warning is a themeatic album, which was lost because of the re-sequence...one of the reasons the band was so pissed.

[TAC]

Well Bosk..I'm not sure. Maybe..
But NM 156 was the standout track from Day 1. Roads To Madness has, for me, eclipsed it, but I took to NM 156 right away.

[bosk1]

And it bears noticing that both of you are (1) long-time QR fans and (2) are fans of bands that do nontraditional things like Dream Theater, Floyd, etc.  I think the casual '80s metal fan would have been freaked out hearing such a nontraditional track lead off the album, even though I agree that it is a standout track.  It is probably in my top 10, but most definitely was not the first time I heard The Warning.  Mindcrime was two albums later, and it still threw tons of people for a loop and was initially met with a lot of criticism by people who didn't get it.  The Warning was, for all intents and purposes, their first album since a lot of people hadn't heard the EP.  For a song like that to come at your average music consumer back then with no background whatsoever on what the band was about...I dunno.  You guys might be right, but I imagine it very well might have had the effect of unfairly turning a lot of people off before they had a chance to give the band a fair shake.

[Samsara]

Of course I am right. Look at my signature for goodness sakes. You said it yourself.   

 

[bosk1]

I only said that to make you feel good about yourself because I recognized that you needed help. 

[TAC]

Bosk I hear what you are saying. I don't disagree with that. I actually think Warning, while I don't think is a great track was fairly representative of what they were doing and if you wanted to make an initial statement of what they were, Warning is reasonable. For that matter, Take Hold would've made a great track 2. But to me the meat and potatoes is the run of Deliverance/No Sanctuary/NM 156.

[Samsara]

But to me the meat and potatoes is the run of Deliverance/No Sanctuary/NM 156.

What, no love for "En Force?"  That track is 

"Slicing and tearing our way to the gate
A towering fortress of blackened steel
Desolate plains holding dying remains
Heed the call of the master we'll soar to
The edges of tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime!!!!!!!"

*killer guitar solo*

 

[TAC]

But to me the meat and potatoes is the run of En Force/ Deliverance/No Sanctuary/NM 156.

Fixed!

[bosk1]

I only said that to make you feel good about yourself because I recognized that you needed help.  

Bosk I hear what you are saying. I don't disagree with that.

 

[Samsara]

That's unfair quoting. lol.

[Samsara]

np: Queensryche - THE WARNING (in original track order, which sounds AMAZING). Get with the program, bosk1

[TAC]

Bosk, to your point about how NM 156 may not have given the correct first impression of what Queensryche was, or what the rest of Warning was.. They pulled a similar trick by starting Rage For Order off with Walk In The Shadows...which at first felt like Rage would be a continuation of Warning, but then of course, I Dream In Infrared starts, and you just knew this was gonna be different.

[El Barto]

I was unaware of the different track order.  I'll check that out.  I'm forced to agree with Bosk, though.  NM has eventually grown into a song I don't hate, but I've never been real keen on it.  As a young, dumb headbanger, I though Warning was a great way to open the album.  I also didn't care for Rage at all when it came out (though it's easily my favorite now),  and NM sounds a great deal like what Rage was going for.  It might very well have turned me off of them in a big way.  

Edit:  and yeah, Walk was the song I really dug off of Rage, so I'm definitely an example of the point.