Author Topic: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album  (Read 272457 times)

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Offline jammindude

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3395 on: December 05, 2018, 08:09:53 PM »
I want to make it completely clear that I still can't stand Taint....with everything I've got. 

BUT.   I'm starting to be swayed by his claims that he took over the band because no one else cared or got involved.    ....and not necessarily because they were being "locked out".      I think maybe TLT is showing signs of discovering the same problem.   

I don't think that the cabaret show or Dedicated to Chaos was the answer....but at least he seemed to be trying to shake things up.
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Online Lethean

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3396 on: December 05, 2018, 08:23:05 PM »
Yeah, but.... there was that interview with Jason Slater where he said that Michael Wilton at least was writing a lot of stuff and he basically was locked out.  I'm sure a little apathy on their part contributed to the situation they found themselves in, but that's probably just one piece of it.

Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3397 on: December 06, 2018, 05:34:26 AM »
Yeah, but.... there was that interview with Jason Slater where he said that Michael Wilton at least was writing a lot of stuff and he basically was locked out.  I'm sure a little apathy on their part contributed to the situation they found themselves in, but that's probably just one piece of it.
It's not mutually exclusive - maybe Wilton wrote great songs but didn't care about the setlists, or coming up with new things to keep the fans interested, or the business side of things... there's plenty of bands that work like that, with one person doing the heavy lifting and at the same time trying to incorporate everyone's ideas into something cohesive. It's just that in their case, that person was also uniquely greedy, uninterested in the genre their fans were interested in, and wasn't trying to incorporate anyone's ideas.

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3398 on: December 06, 2018, 08:31:23 AM »
I want to make it completely clear that I still can't stand Taint....with everything I've got. 

BUT.   I'm starting to be swayed by his claims that he took over the band because no one else cared or got involved.    ....and not necessarily because they were being "locked out".      I think maybe TLT is showing signs of discovering the same problem.   

I don't think that the cabaret show or Dedicated to Chaos was the answer....but at least he seemed to be trying to shake things up.

Aside from the immature, petty namecalling, I agree with every word of this.
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Offline romdrums

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3399 on: December 06, 2018, 08:33:58 AM »
I want to make it completely clear that I still can't stand Taint....with everything I've got. 

BUT.   I'm starting to be swayed by his claims that he took over the band because no one else cared or got involved.    ....and not necessarily because they were being "locked out".      I think maybe TLT is showing signs of discovering the same problem.   

I don't think that the cabaret show or Dedicated to Chaos was the answer....but at least he seemed to be trying to shake things up.

Aside from the immature, petty namecalling, I agree with every word of this.

They should have called it a day after DeGarmo left.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3400 on: December 06, 2018, 08:40:31 AM »
I want to make it completely clear that I still can't stand Taint....with everything I've got. 

BUT.   I'm starting to be swayed by his claims that he took over the band because no one else cared or got involved.    ....and not necessarily because they were being "locked out".      I think maybe TLT is showing signs of discovering the same problem.   

I don't think that the cabaret show or Dedicated to Chaos was the answer....but at least he seemed to be trying to shake things up.

Tate wasn't lying when he said he was the one who wanted to work. Michael wrote all the time, and had a ton of riffs. Slater wasn't lying about that either. But Michael's writing style isn't quite like say a guy such as DeGarmo, or even Slater. Those guys came in with complete songs. Michael came in with riffs and sections (most of the time) that were pieced together (from what I'm told). That frustrated Tate, who couldn't really write over a piece of a song. He needed a full song that he felt moved by. Michael's writing is more collaborative. Thus the problem between him and Tate, artistically.

Yeah, but.... there was that interview with Jason Slater where he said that Michael Wilton at least was writing a lot of stuff and he basically was locked out.  I'm sure a little apathy on their part contributed to the situation they found themselves in, but that's probably just one piece of it.
It's not mutually exclusive - maybe Wilton wrote great songs but didn't care about the setlists, or coming up with new things to keep the fans interested, or the business side of things... there's plenty of bands that work like that, with one person doing the heavy lifting and at the same time trying to incorporate everyone's ideas into something cohesive. It's just that in their case, that person was also uniquely greedy, uninterested in the genre their fans were interested in, and wasn't trying to incorporate anyone's ideas.

Mora hit the nail on the head with the bolded part of what she said. Tate is not, and has never been a guy that likes pure metal. Wilton is. That's why the combination of DeGarmo-Tate-Wilton worked so well together. Wilton could come up with a riff, then Chris would add to it and construct the song in a way that would appeal to Tate, who would then write the lyrics and work with DeGarmo on getting the right melody. It was a perfect writing trio for what Queensryche was -- a rock band with both metal and progressive/moody elements.

When the Kelly Gray era failed, and the reunion with DeGarmo crashed and burned (from what was said, that was largely Tate pushing back against him, but who knows what the truth is), Tate just took control, and that led to...working with Slater and other writers to get music created. Was it the "RIGHT" way to proceed? Not to me, not by a long shot. But that was what Tate chose. And predictably, because Tate was not really a metal guy, Slater encountered the same issues Wilton did, but in a less stonewalled way because Slater wrote and arranged full songs on his own -- Slater would come up with something heavy, and it morphed into something a little less heavy. Or, Tate picked songs from Slater's drives of demos he'd made, and they'd be softer stuff. Tate can't help that -- he likes what he likes. But what I think Tate didn't quite understand was that you can't take over a band and drive it in the way you'd drive a solo record...particularly a band like Queensryche. You HAVE to compromise and work with what you have, otherwise that's not a band.

I think Tate gets that now, and why he refers to Operation: Mindcrime as not a band, but a project. Its essentially his solo project, not a static band with established writers.

But back to jammindude's point, I'm not sure if the situation is the same now. They write collaboratively, so its not about the music creation. I think the financial landscape of their situation has changed dramatically, which makes real life an issue. You have to remember, Wilton and Jackson have known nothing but Queensryche, and earning a living from Queensryche, since they were 18, 19 years old. They know nothing else. So, if life has made it so that they've had to make changes in how they live, work, etc., that could impact not only when and how they write/record music, but also in how they support it.

I think most people know I'm not fond of La Torre's singing these days, but I will give him this -- he worked for years as an every day guy just like us, so I find it really doubtful that he'd be impatient with the guys, if indeed real life has impacted how they had to do things. Him of all people in that band would get it.

But I think Queensryche is in for a surprise, and not in a good way, with The Verdict. With Scott not a part of it, that takes away another feel element of the band, and I think after the predictable hard core fans buying the album and the pre-sales in the first week or two, the album will crash. Not because it won't be good (It'll probably be very good), but because it'll probably sound less like old QR, and interest is waning in the band overall, particularly since it now only has two original members.

I want to make it completely clear that I still can't stand Taint....with everything I've got. 

BUT.   I'm starting to be swayed by his claims that he took over the band because no one else cared or got involved.    ....and not necessarily because they were being "locked out".      I think maybe TLT is showing signs of discovering the same problem.   

I don't think that the cabaret show or Dedicated to Chaos was the answer....but at least he seemed to be trying to shake things up.

Aside from the immature, petty namecalling, I agree with every word of this.

They should have called it a day after DeGarmo left.


In retrospect, amen, romdrums. Although on a personal note, my life would have been very different (likely wouldn't have met my wife) had that happened. So I am happy they continued.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3401 on: December 06, 2018, 04:53:27 PM »
I want to make it completely clear that I still can't stand Taint....with everything I've got. 

BUT.   I'm starting to be swayed by his claims that he took over the band because no one else cared or got involved.    ....and not necessarily because they were being "locked out".      I think maybe TLT is showing signs of discovering the same problem.   

I don't think that the cabaret show or Dedicated to Chaos was the answer....but at least he seemed to be trying to shake things up.

Aside from the immature, petty namecalling, I agree with every word of this.

I'm a pretty easy going guy.   I cannot think of anyone at all on this planet that I've personally met that I would say was a truly terrible human being.....except Geoff Tate.    Yes, I have met him.   I've also met several local and national personalities who have met him.    The only people I've ever met who said he was nice were people who met him in a line at a meet and greet.     Anyone...everyone actually...who has ever actually met the man gives the same stories.    Geoff Tate is a legitimately terrible human being.   

Name calling is not my goto default position.   He's just the only person I've personally met who is completely unworthy of any respect.    And even though he is that terrible, I will still give him credit for trying to do the best he could with the dysfunctional band that he was trying to lead. 
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3402 on: December 06, 2018, 05:08:02 PM »
I understand.  But I still disagree with stooping to that level, even if you or I might feel it is deserved.
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Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3403 on: December 07, 2018, 05:14:27 AM »
I want to make it completely clear that I still can't stand Taint....with everything I've got. 

BUT.   I'm starting to be swayed by his claims that he took over the band because no one else cared or got involved.    ....and not necessarily because they were being "locked out".      I think maybe TLT is showing signs of discovering the same problem.   

I don't think that the cabaret show or Dedicated to Chaos was the answer....but at least he seemed to be trying to shake things up.

From the casual observer it seems like QR just can't be bothered to write music or do anything really.

Offline Ruba

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3404 on: December 07, 2018, 05:27:01 AM »
Man the Machine... the title instantly brought NM156 to my mind. Afterwards I realized that "man" might also be a verb. Oh well.

Anyway, it's a solid rocking tune. Not an instant classic, but a good song overall.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3405 on: December 10, 2018, 08:03:37 AM »
re: Dirty Lil' Secret

Yeah, it was a B-side for Bridge.  I don't know anything beyond that, but I do have a physical copy of that single, so I can look and see if there is anything printed in the booklet when I get home.  There typically isn't much for tracks like that, but you never know.

I finally got around to checking this weekend. It was a b-side for "I Am I," specifically, the little cardboard sleeve version with a bunch of swag in it. Either way, credits list it as DeGarmo/Tate.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3406 on: December 10, 2018, 09:54:59 AM »
Interesting.  I could have sworn it was for Bridge because I remember buying the single, which I normally don't do, specifically for that song, and I have no recollection of buying I Am I.  I'll have to check when I get home now.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3407 on: December 10, 2018, 11:35:37 AM »
Interesting.  I could have sworn it was for Bridge because I remember buying the single, which I normally don't do, specifically for that song, and I have no recollection of buying I Am I.  I'll have to check when I get home now.

I pulled out the standard Bridge single (there were a few) and it wasn't on there, and I Am I was next to it, and I pulled that one and it is on there. It very well could be on one of the other versions of the Bridge single. I didn't look once I found the track and writing credits.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3408 on: December 10, 2018, 11:54:27 AM »
I'm not doubting you.  But my memory is obviously playing tricks on me.  Well, it was a long time ago, so...  I guess that makes sense.  I remember the Bridge single because it was such an obvious "single" choice.  I have less recollection of the I Am I single, probably just because it never really got any traction as a single.  But I was never a completist when it came to buying things that gave me only songs that I already had, so I wouldn't have bought either simply for the single.  So I must have bought the I Am I single then, and just remembered the more prominent Bridge single.
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3409 on: January 11, 2019, 12:30:23 AM »
Dark Reverie has been released on Spotify!

It's quite poppy & the mix is kinda eh, but it's a decent track nonetheless.

Offline Lowdz

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3410 on: January 11, 2019, 02:26:48 AM »
Yeah, just heard that. I like it but first impressions were that it sounded rushed, like they wanted to get through the track as quick as possible. I could certainly hear this being done at a slower tempo, like Open Road.

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3411 on: January 11, 2019, 02:30:54 AM »
I think both Man The Machine and Dark Reverie both have the issue of having an underwhelming first chorus. MTM just skips it entirely & DR only has half of it (which is only about 10 seconds). If I end up buying this album, I'm probably going to edit it so all the songs have the proper chorus after the first verse. It'd be the only time I've edited an album to make it longer. :lol

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3412 on: January 11, 2019, 04:38:02 AM »
Much prefer Dark Reverie to the first single, enjoyable song and decent melody, nothing mind blowing but still a nice song.

Offline T-ski

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3413 on: January 11, 2019, 07:52:31 AM »
Yeah, just heard that. I like it but first impressions were that it sounded rushed, like they wanted to get through the track as quick as possible. I could certainly hear this being done at a slower tempo, like Open Road.

I agree.  this song was better than the first track released, still doesn't sound like the QR I grew up with though.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3414 on: January 11, 2019, 09:13:56 AM »
Hmm.

It's OK. I think as a band, they've shown growth over the last couple of records, but I am not sure I like the direction. Both of these songs have bland choruses, and honestly, both have very little in common with classic Queensryche to my ears. That's not a bad thing, I mean lets face it, the songwriting thread of classic Queensryche was DeGarmo-Tate-Wilton, and now it is La Torre-Jackson-Lundgren-Wilton, so it is bound to be very different. That sort of sonic evolutionary path that they revived with the self-titled has been shed a bit, and they've moved in a different direction from that point.

I'm just not sure I like what they are doing. I have my biases for sure, but I really am cognizant of it and I am trying to listen without those. I just don't feel like this song goes anywhere. It was on and over. Washed in keyboards, and a little bit of La Torre's penchant for 80s ballad stuff. (Just like that song from Condition Human that people loved that I thought was an 80s power ballad). Again, its not a bad tune, just not my thing, and certainly not very memorable, at least for me.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 10:38:12 AM by Samsara »
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Offline DoctorAction

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3415 on: January 11, 2019, 11:42:20 AM »
DR is super-meh for me. TLT is now the MVP in the band, and he's basically (an admittedly excellent) Tate impersonator without the magic something. The songs need to be better than this. I mean, what is the point of this song? That's an accusation you can point at most bands but meh.

Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3416 on: January 11, 2019, 12:57:48 PM »
Having heard La Torre now for seven years, I really think that the "Tate-clone" description of La Torre is off-base. I hear it in some of La Torre's phrasing, for sure. But I also hear Dickinson at times too. Plus, La Torre's voice is a lot thinner and less powerful than Tate's. Even now. Sure, La Torre can hit notes in the higher registers that Tate would struggle with these days. There's no doubt about that. And what Todd can't hit, he screams over (notice most of the time now, he doesn't hit the Queen of the Reich stuff, he screams it instead of sings it). Tate isn't a screamer.

But the thing Tate has over La Torre, even now, is this more commanding, deeper, powerful tone and resonance that really is illustrated on some of the Mindcrime stuff, and the Empire and PL stuff for sure. The songs just sound fuller with Tate singing them, because they were written for a richer voice. Todd does them well, and its not a criticism of him at all. He sings them just fine, and his natural voice comes through. But that voice isn't as rich as Tate's, and so that sort of exposes things a bit.

The fact of the matter is, both singers are very distinct from one another. La Torre was just influenced by Tate so much (particularly from The Warning era) that some of that phrasing is close, which draws the "clone" talk out. When in reality, they are both have very different voices.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3417 on: January 11, 2019, 01:00:44 PM »
I agree.  I like Todd's singing, but you are absolutely right about the distinction between his and Tate's singing. 

I think Todd tried a lot harder on the s/t to imitate Tate's phrasing, which was appropriate at that time.  While he still does it somewhat, I think the fact that he has gotten away from it and done his own thing on the last two (including this release) is also appropriate. 
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Offline DoctorAction

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3418 on: January 11, 2019, 05:07:25 PM »
I respect the analysis, and agree they are different, (they aren't clones or identical twins, after all) but there's only one singer that comes to mind when i hear TLT, and it isn't TLT.

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3419 on: January 11, 2019, 05:46:03 PM »
I respect the analysis, and agree they are different, (they aren't clones or identical twins, after all) but there's only one singer that comes to mind when i hear TLT, and it isn't TLT.

John Arch? :justjen

Offline devieira73

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3420 on: January 11, 2019, 07:59:15 PM »
Good song, but I'm a bit less optimistic about this album than the previous two. The 2 songs released so far are good, but not so good if compared the ones that were released in antecipation to S/T and CH, which I thought were really good albums. Anyway, out of curiosity, this song seems to be written by Parker:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3dcf1EekiE
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 07:41:14 AM by devieira73 »
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3421 on: January 12, 2019, 01:31:59 AM »
After three listens, I officially love the hell out of this new single. It’s moody and intense but also lots of fun. Hopefully there will be some more keyboard sections on the album.

Offline jjrock88

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3422 on: January 12, 2019, 10:21:15 AM »
I think the new song is ok but neither of the first two releases from this album stand out that much as anything special.  It's still light years better than Dedicated to Chaos so you can't complain too much  :lol

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3423 on: January 12, 2019, 12:20:36 PM »
I haven't heard the new one, but I'm enjoying Man The Machine more and more each time I hear it. The chorus, the outro harmonies, the vocals, it truly packs a punch and is a lot of fun. I'm surprised by how good it is, honestly.

Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3424 on: January 14, 2019, 02:45:32 PM »
2019...35th anniversary of The Warning's release. I beat the drum (for the 156th time I'm sure) on the album needing an overhaul, and why. Check it (or any of my other QR-related blogs) out if you're so inclined here - http://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html
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Offline Setzer

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3425 on: January 14, 2019, 03:51:26 PM »
2019...35th anniversary of The Warning's release. I beat the drum (for the 156th time I'm sure) on the album needing an overhaul, and why. Check it (or any of my other QR-related blogs) out if you're so inclined here - http://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html
Earlier today I read an old article, claiming the band weren't happy with the initial mix, and wanted it re-mixed.

Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3426 on: January 14, 2019, 04:26:49 PM »
2019...35th anniversary of The Warning's release. I beat the drum (for the 156th time I'm sure) on the album needing an overhaul, and why. Check it (or any of my other QR-related blogs) out if you're so inclined here - http://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html
Earlier today I read an old article, claiming the band weren't happy with the initial mix, and wanted it re-mixed.

Care to share it? I will modify the blog and the site's chapter on the record to state what the band may have said if you have a link to it.

Also, even if that's what they claim in an article, remember, it was 1984, their first record, and probably told not to rock the boat. What I was told, that they were crushed about it, came from a crew member, who was there with them when they got the news. But honestly, who the hell knows whats actually true at this point? The crew member was dead on about the track list being rearranged, so it stands to reason he was right about the mix too.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 04:35:26 PM by Samsara »
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Offline TAC

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3427 on: January 14, 2019, 04:29:22 PM »
Warning was still mind blowing to me. I actually got a detention in high school because I brought a Kerrang with me to religion class, and I was literally reading the review to Warning when my teacher busted me.  :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3428 on: January 14, 2019, 04:32:06 PM »
Warning was still mind blowing to me. I actually got a detention in high school because I brought a Kerrang with me to religion class, and I was literally reading the review to Warning when my teacher busted me.  :lol

At your advanced age, I am surprised you remember so clearly, TAC. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
End of line.

Offline pg1067

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3429 on: January 14, 2019, 05:02:31 PM »
2019...35th anniversary of The Warning's release. I beat the drum (for the 156th time I'm sure) on the album needing an overhaul, and why. Check it (or any of my other QR-related blogs) out if you're so inclined here - http://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html

"In addition, depending on the budget and availability of the video masters (the rumor is the master has been lost, unfortunately), Capitol Records could also consider packaging Live in Tokyo show with The Warning, as a bonus DVD. Live in Tokyo was shot at the very beginning of The Warning tour and put out on VHS in 1985."

I'd buy that!  If I'm not mistaken, I bought The Warning and then bought Live in Tokyo not long after. (probably followed by the EP, but it's also possible that I got the EP first)  I still have and still love that VHS and was thrilled when they re-released the EP with a studio version of "Prophecy."  I'm not sure I'd buy a remix of The Warning otherwise unless I became convinced that the remix was a significant improvement on the original.

"The bottom line is, I have to believe, particularly given that so many other bands with a lower profile than Queensryche who do these sorts of things, a venture like this is doable and profitable."

The anniversary editions of Fates Warning's pre-APSOG Alder era albums being Exhibit 1 (although I don't know with any certainty that they were profitable, the fact that they did them for four consecutive albums suggest they were).
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung