Author Topic: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album  (Read 731866 times)

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Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #5985 on: December 07, 2022, 12:53:59 PM »
I happen to think DNA is on par with their best work. I'll be in the minority with this opinion. Truly how I feel though.

I feel the same way about the new album.  It's the first album with Todd that really hits me hard, even as much as I enjoyed the prior 3 at times.

This is the first Todd album that sounded like QR to me. The others are good and mostly just straight up metal, but this one seems like it could fit somewhere between Empire and HINTF. For me, it has elements of those albums. I was generally shocked by the sound of this album.
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Offline DTwwbwMP

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #5986 on: December 07, 2022, 01:09:38 PM »
Would love to see them headline a show, but I NO LONGER want to go into NYC for a show (unless a can't miss show - talking to YOU Riverside) and they're not playing The Keswick for some reason, so I'll pass :-\.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #5987 on: December 07, 2022, 02:28:50 PM »
Would love to see them headline a show, but I NO LONGER want to go into NYC for a show (unless a can't miss show - talking to YOU Riverside) and they're not playing The Keswick for some reason, so I'll pass :-\.

I'm not a big enough QR fan to make the treck into the city. There's just a lot of shows already on my calender for 2023, if my slate was emptier I would consider it, but right now, I'm not attending the QR NYC show. If it were at Starland, I'd more likely go, that's the only time I've seen them when they played there in 2020. 

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #5988 on: December 07, 2022, 04:01:29 PM »
This is first-world problems kind of talk, but the venue they are playing by me has turned into an awful one. It used to be, before LiveNation took control, a great place to see a show. The sight lines weren't always idea, but if you're not a big fan of GA, there were plenty of spots you could go to isolate yourself (meaning around others but not crushed on the floor) where you could see well and stay out of the fray. But once LN took over, they took all those spots, put seats, and now made them upgradeable...usually at 100 per ticket to upgrade. So if I bought a 30 dollar ticket, I could get a seat at a table around the outskirts of the pit (raised platforms) for another 100 bucks. My wife and I tried it a few times for various acts - it's too expensive an upgrade for the value, at least for us.

The problem now is, they've put an outline on the floor, and because of the upgraded seats, they enforce those lines like crazy -- so everyone in the GA pit is squished together with no room whatsoever. In this kind of environment, coming out of the pandemic, and it not really being over, that's just uncomfortable. I mean, you're shoulder to shoulder with maybe a couple inches in-between people, front-to-back. I've seen it first hand at Jerry Cantrell, and with Sevendust, not to mention BLS.

I'm not a fan. Mrs. Samsara and I talked about it, and we're going to skip it, which sucks, because we'd both love to see Marty perform again. We just don't want to be crammed into such a tight space because LN has to make its upgrades every show.

There are other venues in the area (I can think of two that could hold the show just fine, capacity-wise), but it seems QR is devoted to playing only LN venues. Sucks.
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Offline WardySI

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #5989 on: December 07, 2022, 04:16:25 PM »
I happen to think DNA is on par with their best work. I'll be in the minority with this opinion. Truly how I feel though.

I feel the same way about the new album.  It's the first album with Todd that really hits me hard, even as much as I enjoyed the prior 3 at times.

This is the first Todd album that sounded like QR to me. The others are good and mostly just straight up metal, but this one seems like it could fit somewhere between Empire and HINTF. For me, it has elements of those albums. I was generally shocked by the sound of this album.

Fantastic!

It took a long time but I've come round to accepting this lineup for what they are and the Queensryche I knew and loved for what they were.  So while no-one can capture the magic of that original band I really do enjoy where this lineup are heading.

Still think the Verdict was the more consistent of the last two albums and as a standalone record came closest to the old days, but no argument there are a few songs on DNA that take that even further, 3 or 4 tracks are well up there with the strongest old-school QR I've heard from them yet! :metal

Sidenote; about my only gripe with this lineup is I wish Todd would sing in a lower register more often.  Sacrilege for some sure but I just find he's going for the higher registers too often and he's impressed enough already, now I just want the songs to breathe some more.  Am not talking about the likes of Forest etc, just overall including the heavy numbers.

Something Tate was so good at was bringing that warmth and depth to a song without needing to be up there all there time.  And that's not a vocal range comparison because honestly don't care for it, but simply comparing what else each of them bring to their compositions.

2c some change and hope that makes sense ;)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2022, 05:23:34 PM by WardySI »

Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #5990 on: December 07, 2022, 04:43:05 PM »
This is first-world problems kind of talk, but the venue they are playing by me has turned into an awful one. It used to be, before LiveNation took control, a great place to see a show. The sight lines weren't always idea, but if you're not a big fan of GA, there were plenty of spots you could go to isolate yourself (meaning around others but not crushed on the floor) where you could see well and stay out of the fray. But once LN took over, they took all those spots, put seats, and now made them upgradeable...usually at 100 per ticket to upgrade. So if I bought a 30 dollar ticket, I could get a seat at a table around the outskirts of the pit (raised platforms) for another 100 bucks. My wife and I tried it a few times for various acts - it's too expensive an upgrade for the value, at least for us.

The problem now is, they've put an outline on the floor, and because of the upgraded seats, they enforce those lines like crazy -- so everyone in the GA pit is squished together with no room whatsoever. In this kind of environment, coming out of the pandemic, and it not really being over, that's just uncomfortable. I mean, you're shoulder to shoulder with maybe a couple inches in-between people, front-to-back. I've seen it first hand at Jerry Cantrell, and with Sevendust, not to mention BLS.

I'm not a fan. Mrs. Samsara and I talked about it, and we're going to skip it, which sucks, because we'd both love to see Marty perform again. We just don't want to be crammed into such a tight space because LN has to make its upgrades every show.

There are other venues in the area (I can think of two that could hold the show just fine, capacity-wise), but it seems QR is devoted to playing only LN venues. Sucks.

That's a bummer.  That raised area by the bar to the left of the stage was a great vantage point and way to avoid being crammed into the sardine can on the floor.  I haven't been there in quite awhile, and I don't think I ever saw a show there from down on the floor, so I can't speak to how good/bad it is.  But I'm taller and don't mind the pit as much as you, so I'm not going to rule it out just yet.  May still end up going.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #5991 on: December 07, 2022, 04:46:39 PM »
This is first-world problems kind of talk, but the venue they are playing by me has turned into an awful one. It used to be, before LiveNation took control, a great place to see a show. The sight lines weren't always idea, but if you're not a big fan of GA, there were plenty of spots you could go to isolate yourself (meaning around others but not crushed on the floor) where you could see well and stay out of the fray. But once LN took over, they took all those spots, put seats, and now made them upgradeable...usually at 100 per ticket to upgrade. So if I bought a 30 dollar ticket, I could get a seat at a table around the outskirts of the pit (raised platforms) for another 100 bucks. My wife and I tried it a few times for various acts - it's too expensive an upgrade for the value, at least for us.

The problem now is, they've put an outline on the floor, and because of the upgraded seats, they enforce those lines like crazy -- so everyone in the GA pit is squished together with no room whatsoever. In this kind of environment, coming out of the pandemic, and it not really being over, that's just uncomfortable. I mean, you're shoulder to shoulder with maybe a couple inches in-between people, front-to-back. I've seen it first hand at Jerry Cantrell, and with Sevendust, not to mention BLS.

I'm not a fan. Mrs. Samsara and I talked about it, and we're going to skip it, which sucks, because we'd both love to see Marty perform again. We just don't want to be crammed into such a tight space because LN has to make its upgrades every show.

There are other venues in the area (I can think of two that could hold the show just fine, capacity-wise), but it seems QR is devoted to playing only LN venues. Sucks.

I've been to one venue, Paradise Rock Club in Boston, that had those lines.  SOOO annoying.  I just wanted to be on the other side of it to give myself a little bit of space but nooooo said security.

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #5992 on: December 07, 2022, 05:33:07 PM »
I haven't been to the Paradise since the mid 90's, but I never thought it was a great place to see a show.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline emtee

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #5993 on: December 08, 2022, 03:45:55 AM »
So...despite being a huge fan of QR, especially during the run from the EP - HITNF,  I never bought another album until American Soldier. Out of curiosity last night I listened to Tribe for the first time.

The entire album has an undercurrent of solemness to it. Almost feels like an acoustic album. The instruments sound more raw especially the drums. Tate's voice still sounds decent but you can hear the beginnings of a difference. It's an interesting listen...one that I have to give props to because at the time, I'm certain this album really threw hard-core fans off. Kind of reminds me of Dokken's Shadowlife album. Like at the time, there was a collective sadness and introspection from the band and it comes through in the music.

I'm going to work my way through everything I haven't heard. Tribe will get more spins though. I enjoyed it.

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #5994 on: December 08, 2022, 03:59:06 AM »
Tribe is probably my favorite album of the Tateryche era (1999-2012), but even as such, it's not a great album by any means. I enjoy the title track and the opener, Blood is kind of underrated, and Losing myself is fun, it could have been a hit.

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #5995 on: December 08, 2022, 04:13:47 AM »
Tribe could have been so much more with CDG returning but was such a big disappointment. And the live disc from that tour (The Art Of Live) is even worse.
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline WilliamMunny

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #5996 on: December 08, 2022, 05:57:23 AM »
Tribe could have been so much more with CDG returning but was such a big disappointment. And the live disc from that tour (The Art Of Live) is even worse.

This kinda sums up my experience...at least initially.

I wish the whole 'DeGarmo' thing had been kept under wraps better. I was working at a record store at the time, and I distinctly remember a conversation with our local rep (oh, how the industry has changed) where he was disclosing the 'wink wink' "big plans" QR had for the album and subsequent tour. "You didn't hear this from me, but..."

So, I went into the album with incredibly high expectations. How could I not? After all, Chris was back with the band.

Upon initial listen, I noticed his credits weren't what I expected and was nowhere to be found in the band pictures. Then, the album itself felt like a continuation of HITNF. Not exactly what I was hoping for. Once the absence of DeGarmo was confirmed, I was so bummed/crushed, I largely ignored Tribe for many years to come.

Now, in retrospect, I consider it the last QR album I can listen to front-to-back. In fact, in recent years, I've gone back to Tribe and have thoroughly enjoyed how fresh it sounds.

As for the "Art of Life" live release...well, that's something that I have no interest in ever revisiting.

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #5997 on: December 08, 2022, 06:03:35 AM »
I don't hate American Soldier

The guy that made the CD-R for me totally fucked up the track order, but I remember it working way better that way. :lol
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #5998 on: December 08, 2022, 07:40:08 AM »
I was only lukewarm on AS but I thought it was better than Tribe. In fact almost everything is better than Tribe imo.
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #5999 on: December 08, 2022, 08:15:08 AM »
At the time it was released, I was REALLY into Tribe.  I don't listen to it very much anymore though.  I loved Open.  The title track was really groovy too.  I never really cared for the fact that Degarmo was "back," I just wanted good songs. 

The tour for the album was really great though.  That was the year that they started bringing back some Empire deeper cuts - The Thin Line and Another Rainy Night.  They only played 2 tracks from Mindcrime (Breaking the Silence and Needle Lies).  And there was a really cool 3-song acoustic moment in the middle of the set, plus plenty of songs from Tribe.

A year later, they brought back Mindcrime suites and would alternate those songs each night, which was fun. 

Offline goo-goo

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6000 on: December 08, 2022, 08:17:06 AM »
Tribe is probably on my Top 3 QR albums (OM, PL and Tribe). I love the vibe of most of the songs even though they sound a bit AORish. The live album that came out of this tour was subpar, though I did catch them live in Albuquerque and the show itself was pretty good.

Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6001 on: December 08, 2022, 08:32:28 AM »
I love the DeGarmo-involved Tribe tracks (Open, Desert Dance, The Art of Life, Falling Behind, Doin' Fine...and Justified, after the fact) as a whole way more than the rest of Tribe where he wasn't involved (Losing Myshit, Rhythm of Hope, Tribe, The Great Divide, Blood). The DeGarmo tracks sound like a natural evolution from Hear in the Now Frontier, heavier, better production, and evolving. But  I still enjoy the title track, Rhythm of Hope and The Great Divide. I don't really listen to the record as a whole, given the above (I tend to favor the DeGarmo involved stuff), but there's overall good stuff on Tribe, even if a few of the tracks aren't finished (Blood, The Great Divide).

The Tribe Tour was fantastic. I really enjoyed it that Fall, after QR/DT/FW toured. Saw it a bunch of times all over the country (a few spots in Cali, back on Long Island), and they were mixing up setlists and doing some good stuff.

The Art of Live, as a live album was fraught with issues. From a video perspective, the cameras they invested in to shoot the footage themselves were overpowered by the lights, forcing them either to scrap the release or do it in sepia tone, which they opted for. Second, the mix was terrible. Overall, one of the more disappointing things QR has ever released. Could have, and should have been more.

The Art of Live tour, however, was really, really good. May 1, 2004, I remember being in Vegas, and the band had Pamela Moore out with them doing background vocals. They get to Take Hold, which was mid-set, before they launched into Mindcrime (which setlist.fm has wrong - they did not play Suite Sister Mary. I remember because I remember thinking how odd it was. They also didn't play Mindcrime in its entirety because the latter segues, Waiting for 22 and My Empty Room, were not played. Anyway, Tate, to the whole band's surprise, hit and held the Tate Hold note clearly. It was the first time I'd heard him do it in-full, and from their reactions, which I'll get to a minute, it was totally unplanned. This was before camera phones were really a huge thing, and HOB had a strict policy against cameras and recording, so I couldn't record anything. But it surprised Wilton and Jackson so much that they looked at one another, had shit-eating grins on their faces, and then jammed the rest of that tune HARD. It was really cool to see. I'll never forget it. A hell of a show.

It was after that, that they decided to do the MC sequel, and do that whole tour in fall 2004/winter 2005 doing Mindcrime in-full . Which I was lukewarm on. The best tour of the Tateryche period though was that stint in Summer 2005 opening for Judas Priest. Tate was singing incredibly well, and QR played a very metal set with early stuff. I really enjoyed that.

American Soldier is my favorite record from the Tateryche years. Ironically, Tate is the weak point on the whole record. His vocals just aren't that great. Musically, I thought Slater's songs were strong, and made better because the entirety of Queensryche (Rockenfield, Jackson, Wilton) played the music. I think the record limps to the finish line, and it is missing the perspective of pride in serving your country (Tate was very slanted, lyrically). But in general, I really enjoyed that record. The tour was great too. American Soldier, Empire, RFO, all done in about six or seven song suites.

Good times.

  :metal
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6002 on: December 08, 2022, 01:35:32 PM »
I liked Tribe a lot when it came out.  It felt like a heavier, darker Promised Land, which I thought was great.  Saw the joint tour with DT twice, and the band's slightly different image fit the dark, brooding music very well.  But after the newness of the album kind of wore off, I was left feeling like it was half an album of really good stuff (mostly the stuff CDG helped with), and half an album of pretty subpar stuff.  Actually, maybe along the lines of 1/3 really good; 1/3 decent; 1/3 awful. 

The Good:
-Open--REALLY good song.  Surprisingly good as an album opener given the mid-tempo vibe that never deviates.  I know they were going for simpler, more stripped down music, but this song could have REALLY been elevated even more by a ripping guitar solo and feels unfinished.
-Desert Dance--Good song.  I know it got mixed reviews, but I always really liked it.
-The Great Divide--I like the Tool vibe.
-The Art of Life--This song probably feels more like "Queensryche" than anything else on the album, despite not really sounding like any specific song in their discography.

The Decent:
-Losing Myself--The worst of this middle group, but I'm fine with it as a quirky, different little filler song.
-Tribe--Easily the best of this group and could have been in the next group up with better lyrics.
-Doin' Fine--Not a bad song at all.  I seem to remember it getting blasted quite a bit.  I never understood the dislike.

The Bad:
-Falling Behind
-Rhythm of Hope
-Blood

I don't have any specific recollection of Justified.  I've heard it several times, and while I didn't hate it, it did absolutely nothing for me that made me want to replay it or even remember it.  Never understood the hype.

Brian, didn't Hostage also come out of these sessions, or am I misremembering?
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Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6003 on: December 08, 2022, 01:57:33 PM »
Yes, the Hostage demo was created very late in the sessions and too late for inclusion.

It was later re-recorded for Mindcrime II (and made worse). The demo of that song is one of the best-post DeGarmo songs Queensryche has ever done, IMO. The album version on MC II takes the teeth and edge out of the tune. Such a shame.
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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6004 on: December 08, 2022, 02:06:18 PM »
Always enjoyed Tribe. I didn't know a whole lot about the background when it came out, other than DeGarmo had been involved in the songwriting. I vaguely remember reading in magazines rumors that DeGarmo had actually returned as a full-time member. Learned a bit more about that recently from Samsara, between the book and conversations on this thread...

Anyway, as I was saying, regardless of the back story, I always thought Tribe was a significant step up from Q2K. It's my favorite of the Tateryche era, by some margin. These days, I think I prefer it to HITNF too, although the latter might have higher highs. It does feel a bit unfinished at times, but the songs are generally very good, and there is a certain "warmth" to the its songwriting approach.

Looking at Bosk's groupings, and thinking along the same lines...Open, Desert Dance and The Great Divide all belong to my "good" group too. To that, however, I add Tribe, Rhythm of Hope and Blood (what do you dislike so much about the latter two, Bosk?). The Art of Life and Doin' Fine I like, but don't love...Falling Behind and Losing Myself are definitely my least favorites, although I can't say I despise them.

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6005 on: December 08, 2022, 02:11:22 PM »
I love the DeGarmo-involved Tribe tracks (Open, Desert Dance, The Art of Life, Falling Behind, Doin' Fine...and Justified, after the fact) as a whole way more than the rest of Tribe where he wasn't involved (Losing Myshit, Rhythm of Hope, Tribe, The Great Divide, Blood). The DeGarmo tracks sound like a natural evolution from Hear in the Now Frontier, heavier, better production, and evolving. But  I still enjoy the title track, Rhythm of Hope and The Great Divide. I don't really listen to the record as a whole, given the above (I tend to favor the DeGarmo involved stuff), but there's overall good stuff on Tribe, even if a few of the tracks aren't finished (Blood, The Great Divide).

The Tribe Tour was fantastic. I really enjoyed it that Fall, after QR/DT/FW toured. Saw it a bunch of times all over the country (a few spots in Cali, back on Long Island), and they were mixing up setlists and doing some good stuff.

The Art of Live, as a live album was fraught with issues. From a video perspective, the cameras they invested in to shoot the footage themselves were overpowered by the lights, forcing them either to scrap the release or do it in sepia tone, which they opted for. Second, the mix was terrible. Overall, one of the more disappointing things QR has ever released. Could have, and should have been more.

The Art of Live tour, however, was really, really good. May 1, 2004, I remember being in Vegas, and the band had Pamela Moore out with them doing background vocals. They get to Take Hold, which was mid-set, before they launched into Mindcrime (which setlist.fm has wrong - they did not play Suite Sister Mary. I remember because I remember thinking how odd it was. They also didn't play Mindcrime in its entirety because the latter segues, Waiting for 22 and My Empty Room, were not played. Anyway, Tate, to the whole band's surprise, hit and held the Tate Hold note clearly. It was the first time I'd heard him do it in-full, and from their reactions, which I'll get to a minute, it was totally unplanned. This was before camera phones were really a huge thing, and HOB had a strict policy against cameras and recording, so I couldn't record anything. But it surprised Wilton and Jackson so much that they looked at one another, had shit-eating grins on their faces, and then jammed the rest of that tune HARD. It was really cool to see. I'll never forget it. A hell of a show.

It was after that, that they decided to do the MC sequel, and do that whole tour in fall 2004/winter 2005 doing Mindcrime in-full . Which I was lukewarm on. The best tour of the Tateryche period though was that stint in Summer 2005 opening for Judas Priest. Tate was singing incredibly well, and QR played a very metal set with early stuff. I really enjoyed that.

American Soldier is my favorite record from the Tateryche years. Ironically, Tate is the weak point on the whole record. His vocals just aren't that great. Musically, I thought Slater's songs were strong, and made better because the entirety of Queensryche (Rockenfield, Jackson, Wilton) played the music. I think the record limps to the finish line, and it is missing the perspective of pride in serving your country (Tate was very slanted, lyrically). But in general, I really enjoyed that record. The tour was great too. American Soldier, Empire, RFO, all done in about six or seven song suites.

Good times.

  :metal

Sorry to be a noob, but what's the "Tate Hold note"?  I love that story, though; I've experienced that sort of phenomena, where a band is reacting en masse to a situation or event and it can be clearly heard in the music, three or four times and it's magic whenever it does happen.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6006 on: December 08, 2022, 02:16:39 PM »
...Rhythm of Hope and Blood (what do you dislike so much about the latter two, Bosk?).

The first one just bores me to tears.  There's nothing whatsoever about it that interests me.

Blood is also uninteresting, musically, I don't like the vocals, and the lyrics are the worst the band has ever written that aren't about Susan Tate's privates.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6007 on: December 08, 2022, 02:23:45 PM »
Here's my take on Chris and Tribe. And this is entirely my opinion.

I think he had every intention of returning to the band during the Tribe period. Photos of all five of them were taken (Chris was photoshopped out), there were other songs in the works (Justified), others with parts for Chris left undone (Blood is missing a whole second guitar, the slide guitar in rhythm of hope was supposed to be Chris, etc.). He was even, according to various people, scheduled to do the 12/31/02 New Years Even show in Anchorage, Alaska, as a sort of "soft launch" of being back. (Can't verify that without asking him directly, but that has been out there for years.) But when they were doing vocals and going over vocal melodies for the songs on Tribe, there were issues between how what they used to do (DeGarmo and Tate working together and trying different things), and what Tate now preferred (to call the shots and do it himself the way he wanted to). And when outside parties (read that as outside of the five of the band members) got involved with their opinions, and Tate was unwilling to budge, Chris (again, totally my opinion) just threw his hands up and left. And IF it played out that way, I wouldn't have blamed him.

All the way through DeGarmo's initial tenure with the band, Queensryche was always about doing things the right way. INVESTING in the band. Taking what they've earned and putting it into the band to make the band bigger and ultimately, increase their profile and long term viability and stability. And when Chris left in 1997, it became "how can we do this the cheapest in order to pocket the most money for ourselves." And that, in my opinion, was where the band was at when Chris attempted to write and record with them in 2002 and 2003. Those two things, IMO, are what drove Chris away during Tribe.

He allegedly tried again after Mindcrime II...during the period where they released Sign of the Times: The Best of Queensryche, and put Justified on there (the song for Tribe Chris was working on and didn't complete before he left then). But allegedly the same issues reared their head - choosing to do things on the cheap, instead of investing in the band, and that put an end to any hopeful reunion.

DeGarmo, to his credit, has always seemed to be a guy that understood that you have to be willing to invest to reach your fullest potential. And that's how QR became famous in the first place and achieved so much success. But relationships (new marriages, new people involved) can change existing relationships and how things operated previously. That's just life, sometimes. Again, to Chris' credit, he's always said he's on good terms with all of them, and that's what he wanted. And if that's true, all the more power to him. Just a shame things never panned out.

But the original band left us with six full length records, an EP, a live record and another handful of great songs. And I'm pretty damn thankful for that. Those five guys were truly a band that was a sum of its parts. They've never been the same without all of them.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6008 on: December 08, 2022, 04:53:08 PM »
Sorry to be a noob, but what's the "Tate Hold note"?  I love that story, though; I've experienced that sort of phenomena, where a band is reacting en masse to a situation or event and it can be clearly heard in the music, three or four times and it's magic whenever it does happen.

I'm guessing he meant "Take Hold note" and is referring to the note that Tate hits at 1:10 of the studio recording:  ". . . distant signs of unforetold.  Oooo...ooo...take hooooOOOOOLLLDD!!!"
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Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6009 on: December 08, 2022, 05:47:02 PM »
Yeah, that one. I was typing fast. lol.
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Offline DTwwbwMP

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6010 on: December 08, 2022, 06:49:26 PM »
Thanks for this! Very well explained! :tup

Here's my take on Chris and Tribe. And this is entirely my opinion.

I think he had every intention of returning to the band during the Tribe period. Photos of all five of them were taken (Chris was photoshopped out), there were other songs in the works (Justified), others with parts for Chris left undone (Blood is missing a whole second guitar, the slide guitar in rhythm of hope was supposed to be Chris, etc.). He was even, according to various people, scheduled to do the 12/31/02 New Years Even show in Anchorage, Alaska, as a sort of "soft launch" of being back. (Can't verify that without asking him directly, but that has been out there for years.) But when they were doing vocals and going over vocal melodies for the songs on Tribe, there were issues between how what they used to do (DeGarmo and Tate working together and trying different things), and what Tate now preferred (to call the shots and do it himself the way he wanted to). And when outside parties (read that as outside of the five of the band members) got involved with their opinions, and Tate was unwilling to budge, Chris (again, totally my opinion) just threw his hands up and left. And IF it played out that way, I wouldn't have blamed him.

All the way through DeGarmo's initial tenure with the band, Queensryche was always about doing things the right way. INVESTING in the band. Taking what they've earned and putting it into the band to make the band bigger and ultimately, increase their profile and long term viability and stability. And when Chris left in 1997, it became "how can we do this the cheapest in order to pocket the most money for ourselves." And that, in my opinion, was where the band was at when Chris attempted to write and record with them in 2002 and 2003. Those two things, IMO, are what drove Chris away during Tribe.

He allegedly tried again after Mindcrime II...during the period where they released Sign of the Times: The Best of Queensryche, and put Justified on there (the song for Tribe Chris was working on and didn't complete before he left then). But allegedly the same issues reared their head - choosing to do things on the cheap, instead of investing in the band, and that put an end to any hopeful reunion.

DeGarmo, to his credit, has always seemed to be a guy that understood that you have to be willing to invest to reach your fullest potential. And that's how QR became famous in the first place and achieved so much success. But relationships (new marriages, new people involved) can change existing relationships and how things operated previously. That's just life, sometimes. Again, to Chris' credit, he's always said he's on good terms with all of them, and that's what he wanted. And if that's true, all the more power to him. Just a shame things never panned out.

But the original band left us with six full length records, an EP, a live record and another handful of great songs. And I'm pretty damn thankful for that. Those five guys were truly a band that was a sum of its parts. They've never been the same without all of them.

Offline WardySI

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6011 on: December 08, 2022, 07:34:10 PM »
Still like American Soldier a lot but as Brian said it's finale really crawls to the finish line and for that reason I kinda put it and Tribe on par but Tribe's highlights are superior.

Open, Tribe, The Art Of Life and Justified are the highlights and the rest is pretty good tbh the only song I can't stand is the Stone co-write Losing Myself which kills all the excitement and hope that was offered with Open.  Ridiculous song and clearly (IMO) what Wilton was referring to when interviewed before the albums release suggesting he did not want Queensryche to become some pop band (or words to that effect)!? 

As a side, while don't really regard them the same Queensryche these days but love all the same, because of that I was nervous what Stone would bring to the current lineup but thankfully seems he's redeemed himself on DNA  :laugh:

Anyway, when it works Tribe does have a warmth and appeal to it but clearly was a huge missed opportunity, as had they completed the record as intended and forged on who knows what wonders the original lineup may have come up with since.  Absolutely would not have gotten the bog average MCII as it were that's fer sure ;)

Offline Autumnhoney

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6012 on: December 08, 2022, 11:08:59 PM »
Hi, long time lurker first time poster here.

Not sure if this should have it's own thread but am I the only one disappointed in the videos for the last four records?
They tend to be cut way too quickly, overly literal and a bit repetitive. Not to mention just straight up ignorant.
I was a scene/costume design student so it's possible I pay attention more than the average viewer.

Sicdeth- silly revenge fantasy, not sure what the message was there. Maybe a bit tone deaf considering the mass shooting issues of the last 15 years. Was it supposed to be anti-exploitation, while at the same time being incredibly male gazey?

Hold on- trying to decry shallowness while being just as shallow. Pointing at gen Z like this just makes the band look like a bunch of old harumphs. Trend following and materialism are nothing new, it's just more technological now. What's with the digs at plastic surgery? I'd bet my ass someone's GF/wife of the boys has had a nip/tuck or two, seems a bit hypocritical. It's also unintentionally sexist. A lot of the imagery is women putting on makeup, applying lipstick (there are multiple shots of this throughout the video), mascara, shoe shopping, trying on clothes etc. They do show both men and woman on their devices. But they don't show men buying motorcycles, golf clubs, boats, watches. Meaning the things women stereotypically buy are shallow but the things men spend money on aren't? Along with at least 3 or 4 shots of pills/pill taking. Really?! Fuck you, I need my meds to function. WTF Queensryche, do better.

Behind the walls- it's fine, I like the cuts with the bonfire in the background. This is where it gets overly literal: feelings of alienation? let's put a literal alien here. Family troubles? let's have this person scribble out a stick figure family. Also she seems a bit old for this kind of therapy. The blood pouring out is probably supposed to represent overflowing pain, but all I could think was, man this chick is having a heavy flow. Similar to both parts of IT when the bathroom fills up with period blood.
Rorschach tests haven't been used in quite some time I believe. Reaching out and trying to touch your client without permission is a no no and she was right to slap his hand away. "Same time next week?" um no Todd, you're actually a terrible therapist.

In Extremis- yeah, not much to say about this one. It does a pretty good job catching each members' individual energy, I like it.
Light-years - see above. pretty much the same thing but with different visual effects added.

Guardian - performance video
Fallout- again, same
Redemption-yep, a bit goofy

Forest - at least the visuals make sense to the context of the song, even if they are a bit cheesy.
Ad Lucem- meh, also very cheesy

As far as I know the band is happy with the results and it's their money. There's just nothing there for me to desire repeat viewings.
Whatever message they are trying to convey in the non band performance videos is done very poorly. I mean not everyone can hit the ground running like Robert Eggers or most of the A-24 catalogue but this is just bad.
Imagine a Queensryche vid directed by Panos Cosmatos!? Please for the love of Bob somebody make that happen!

Re: Degarmo- I would love to hear what he and La Torre could come up with. No shade on Todd but I think he could benefit from Chris's mentorship on lyrics and add a more complex sound. Tate and Degarmo were the Yin to the rest of the band's Yang. That kind of push/pull is missing, currently it's more Yang on top of Yang. I'm not talking about Degarmo taking over by any stretch or touring with them, just adding his flavor to an already good mix. Considering how much Todd loves early ryche I would imagine Chris getting a better reception from him than he did Tate. What could it hurt to invite him to get together and noodle around sometime?

Offline emtee

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6013 on: December 09, 2022, 01:57:11 AM »
Last night's listen was OM:II.

Honestly, this was an unpleasant chore to get through. Just nothing there to hold my attention. A few songs I got 3 minutes into and skipped to the next. Tribe was way better. I have no desire to hear this one again.

Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6014 on: December 09, 2022, 08:20:17 AM »
Autumnhoney - the door has always been open for Chris to work with QR and work with Tate. He chooses not to. IMO, that should speak volumes. Not speaking for him, and entirely my opinion. But it's pretty obvious there is no interest. You also have to remember that if he did choose to work with current QR, or with Tate, it would be viewed as "taking a side," which I am sure he has no interest in. He's said before that all of the original QR guys know what kind of creative chemistry they have together. I think DeGarmo wisely stays out of the bullshit.

As for the videos of the TLT-era, I think they are very creative in terms of concept, but they have been a little samey since Ad Lucem. But I'm not a film/visual arts expert, so if you are, then that observation is probably spot-on.

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Online TAC

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6015 on: December 09, 2022, 09:03:22 AM »
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Autumnhoney

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6016 on: December 09, 2022, 12:15:56 PM »
Thank you for the welcome.

That's too bad. I wondered if he even pays attention to QR these days, beyond maybe giving their stuff a listen once or twice. It sounds like he buried and mourned that particular romance a while ago. I know he's still friends with them individually.

As for taking sides, Geoff was the one that said Chris's input wasn't needed. I don't believe Todd or the other guys have ever said such a thing. Geoff already turned down the offer, so there are no sides to choose. Oh well, it's easy for me to say because I tend to be very picky about who influences my decision making. Similar personality types in my immediate circle can take a flying fuck at a rolling donut.

Offline Glasser

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6017 on: December 09, 2022, 12:20:38 PM »
Autumnhoney welcome to the forum.  :)

Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6018 on: December 09, 2022, 12:42:07 PM »
Thank you for the welcome.

That's too bad. I wondered if he even pays attention to QR these days, beyond maybe giving their stuff a listen once or twice. It sounds like he buried and mourned that particular romance a while ago. I know he's still friends with them individually.

As for taking sides, Geoff was the one that said Chris's input wasn't needed. I don't believe Todd or the other guys have ever said such a thing. Geoff already turned down the offer, so there are no sides to choose. Oh well, it's easy for me to say because I tend to be very picky about who influences my decision making. Similar personality types in my immediate circle can take a flying fuck at a rolling donut.

Chris absolutely pays attention to what Queensryche and his former bandmates do. I know that for an absolute fact. For example, he has, and has read, the biography I helped write on the band that published last year. He played live last year with Lily Cornell Silver doing a tribute to Alice in Chains. He played acoustic guitar on "Drone" by Alice in Chains (uncredited except for Jerry Cantrell mentioning it in an interview) on their last album. He's very much still a musician. He's just not in the spotlight. And it seems he really prefers it that way. Can't say I blame him. My respect for Chris has only grown in the last several years. I wish he was more...public with his music. But that's his choice, and I'm thankful for what we have. :)
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Offline nick_z

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #6019 on: December 09, 2022, 12:46:13 PM »

Chris absolutely pays attention to what Queensryche and his former bandmates do. I know that for an absolute fact. For example, he has, and has read, the biography I helped write on the band that published last year. He played live last year with Lily Cornell Silver doing a tribute to Alice in Chains. He played acoustic guitar on "Drone" by Alice in Chains (uncredited except for Jerry Cantrell mentioning it in an interview) on their last album. He's very much still a musician. He's just not in the spotlight. And it seems he really prefers it that way. Can't say I blame him. My respect for Chris has only grown in the last several years. I wish he was more...public with his music. But that's his choice, and I'm thankful for what we have. :)

Another notable collaboration (although, amazingly, that's already 17 years old too!!) was on dredg's Catch Without Arms (co-wrote a couple songs, helped with arrangements...can't quite remember if he played on it too). Fantastic album, that one.