Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album

[King Postwhore]

Tate and his wife made a power move and the rest of the band felt voiceless.  That's never good so they voted the management including his wife out.  I see no issue with that at all. Geoff did like it.  Attacked Scott the drummer and lashed out onstage.  Yeah, Geoff has a huge slice of blame there.

[King Postwhore]

Tate was THE BEST    its the package of him,  his tone and delivery , his range , the sound of his voice period.   these silly slagging of the man is silly.. Ive never seen Tate be anything but great with the fans  always.    comparing him to anyone but Halford is just ridiculous and Tate had a seriousness that Rob didnt have,  Tate is the best for so many reasons,  why anyone nit picks the behavior of a 80s rockstar is silly, most never gave back like Tate did period  MY OPINION

Tate gets venom because his action lead to him leaving the band.  The same goes for Perry and DeYoung.  All Iconic and major parts that made the bands recognizable but in the end their action hurt the bands.
[/quote


It was the bands actions also   I dont understand why they got a pass at all ...

A little more incite.  I know Sam could tell you more.

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/remaining-queensryche-members-accuse-geoff-tate-of-financial-wrongdoing-violence/

[bosk1]

Ive never seen Tate be anything but great with the fans  always.

Glad that is your experience with him.  That is the experience of a lot of people.  And that's great.  But there are a lot of other people out there (a lot) who have seen a much different side of him.  And that is valid as well.  Your personal experiences aren't the only ones that count.

why anyone nit picks the behavior of a 80s rockstar is silly

Well, there are a LOT of '80s rockstars who are great rockstars, but pretty bad people.  Being an '80s rockstar isn't some magic immunity from having to behave like a good person.  In fact, a lot of rockstars and other entertainers don't ever really learn how to be good people because they don't have to spend the majority of their time dealing with anyone other than those who adore them and tell them how great they are.

[Lupton]

Tate and his wife made a power move and the rest of the band felt voiceless.  That's never good so they voted the management including his wife out.  I see no issue with that at all. Geoff did like it.  Attacked Scott the drummer and lashed out onstage.  Yeah, Geoff has a huge slice of blame there.

^ This. Not to mention the hours and hours of shitty music (Q2K - D2C) with progressively lackluster vocal performances leading up to all that..  Yeah it's really difficult to imagine why anyone would have a negative perception of Tate   

Damn. The QR Cabaret thing ALONE is hate-worthy enough. Probably one of the lamest decisions ever made.

[Samsara]

Here's the thing. Tate gets the most blame from people for the falling out. And IMO, that's justified. Once Chris left, and with every subsequent album and tour, Tate and his wife took more and more control of Queensryche and made it their personal family business. And in doing so, they made a LOT of missteps along the way, both musically (IMO) and financially. That said, however, it would be ridiculous to blame only Tate. The rest of the band allowed it to happen. Why? Because they were getting paid. They might not have liked what Tate and his wife were doing, but they certainly enjoyed the money. And when it comes right down to it, Queensryche, as a band, once DeGarmo left, really became all about a cash grab, as opposed to art.

Sure, Tate deserves some credit for coming up with the theme, or vision for all the records following Chris' departure, and steering QR in the direction he felt the band should move. Perhaps it was artistically fulfilling for him. But the more you follow the story, the most it becomes painfully obvious that as long as their wallets were filled, no one was going to rock the boat.

It wasn't until after Tate and his wife pushed too hard and too far, that the band actually started to listen to the people who actually cared. So if you're going to be fair, yes, a huge amount of blame is on the Tates for their greed and nepotism. But Wilton, Rockenfield and Jackson allowed it to happen, IMO, because they were getting paid. At that point in their lives (1998-2012), I would assume they felt as long as the money was coming in, they could put up with the dramatics from their singer and his wife. Then the Tates got too greedy, and that was that.

So blame all around.

After all these years, I hate even thinking about all that. We discussed it in the forthcoming biography, but tried to just give all the facts and let people make their own decisions on who is to blame. We stayed as balanced as possible, but there was no getting around some of the shadiness from the Tate camp. It was what it was.

Queensryche is celebrating 40 years as a band next year. The band is a huge success story. How they got there wasn't pretty. But it's damn noteworthy that they have been an active band for 40 years.

[EPICVIEW]

Ive never seen Tate be anything but great with the fans  always.

Glad that is your experience with him.  That is the experience of a lot of people.  And that's great.  But there are a lot of other people out there (a lot) who have seen a much different side of him.  And that is valid as well.  Your personal experiences aren't the only ones that count.

why anyone nit picks the behavior of a 80s rockstar is silly

Well, there are a LOT of '80s rockstars who are great rockstars, but pretty bad people.  Being an '80s rockstar isn't some magic immunity from having to behave like a good person.  In fact, a lot of rockstars and other entertainers don't ever really learn how to be good people because they don't have to spend the majority of their time dealing with anyone other than those who adore them and tell them how great they are.

I agree Boss ,,, on both points,, no doubt

[TAC]

Here's the thing. Tate gets the most blame from people for the falling out. And IMO, that's justified. Once Chris left, and with every subsequent album and tour, Tate and his wife took more and more control of Queensryche and made it their personal family business. And in doing so, they made a LOT of missteps along the way, both musically (IMO) and financially. That said, however, it would be ridiculous to blame only Tate. The rest of the band allowed it to happen. Why? Because they were getting paid. They might not have liked what Tate and his wife were doing, but they certainly enjoyed the money. And when it comes right down to it, Queensryche, as a band, once DeGarmo left, really became all about a cash grab, as opposed to art.

Sure, Tate deserves some credit for coming up with the theme, or vision for all the records following Chris' departure, and steering QR in the direction he felt the band should move. Perhaps it was artistically fulfilling for him. But the more you follow the story, the most it becomes painfully obvious that as long as their wallets were filled, no one was going to rock the boat.

I've always said I'd never behoove someone from making a living, but this is exactly why I've never felt bad for the rest of the band, no matter what Tate's antics were. They are professional musicians. Their hearts don't have to be in it to earn a living.

But as a big time fan of the band in the early days, and peripheral onlooker in later years, this was painfully obvious. Eddie Jackson is as replaceable as anyone., he brings zero to the band, and Scott Rockenfield is well..a drummer.

The one who surprised me that let it get out of hand is Wilton. He seemed artistic enough, and after Degarmo left, I'm kind of surprised that Wilton stayed, especially since he's the "metal" guy, as Tate moved the band away from that. Brian, I hope your book gives some insight in to Wilton's perspective during that time.

Queensryche is celebrating 40 years as a band next year. The band is a huge success story. How they got there wasn't pretty. But it's damn noteworthy that they have been an active band for 40 years.

I will in no way begrudge a professional musician's 40 year career, but to call this band a huge success story is a bit much, no?

They are an 80's has been band that had some success in the 90's. In the end they are really no different than Cinderella or Tesla. And I'd never call either a huge success story.

Geoff Tate is playing the armpits of America and Queensryche..I guess artistically, their last 3 albums with Todd have been very good. I congratulate them for that, but it has more to do with Todd IMO than the actual Queensryche dudes.

[EPICVIEW]

Here's the thing. Tate gets the most blame from people for the falling out. And IMO, that's justified. Once Chris left, and with every subsequent album and tour, Tate and his wife took more and more control of Queensryche and made it their personal family business. And in doing so, they made a LOT of missteps along the way, both musically (IMO) and financially. That said, however, it would be ridiculous to blame only Tate. The rest of the band allowed it to happen. Why? Because they were getting paid. They might not have liked what Tate and his wife were doing, but they certainly enjoyed the money. And when it comes right down to it, Queensryche, as a band, once DeGarmo left, really became all about a cash grab, as opposed to art.

Sure, Tate deserves some credit for coming up with the theme, or vision for all the records following Chris' departure, and steering QR in the direction he felt the band should move. Perhaps it was artistically fulfilling for him. But the more you follow the story, the most it becomes painfully obvious that as long as their wallets were filled, no one was going to rock the boat.

I've always said I'd never behoove someone from making a living, but this is exactly why I've never felt bad for the rest of the band, no matter what Tate's antics were. They are professional musicians. Their hearts don't have to be in it to earn a living.

But as a big time fan of the band in the early days, and peripheral onlooker in later years, this was painfully obvious. Eddie Jackson is as replaceable as anyone., he brings zero to the band, and Scott Rockenfield is well..a drummer.

The one who surprised me that let it get out of hand is Wilton. He seemed artistic enough, and after Degarmo left, I'm kind of surprised that Wilton stayed, especially since he's the "metal" guy, as Tate moved the band away from that. Brian, I hope your book gives some insight in to Wilton's perspective during that time.

Queensryche is celebrating 40 years as a band next year. The band is a huge success story. How they got there wasn't pretty. But it's damn noteworthy that they have been an active band for 40 years.

I will in no way begrudge a professional musician's 40 year career, but to call this band a huge success story is a bit much, no?

They are an 80's has been band that had some success in the 90's. In the end they are really no different than Cinderella or Tesla. And I'd never call either a huge success story.

Geoff Tate is playing the armpits of America and Queensryche..I guess artistically, their last 3 albums with Todd have been very good. I congratulate them for that, but it has more to do with Todd IMO than the actual Queensryche dudes.

YUP TAC,,,, also if Tate left with Chris  then what? 

[King Postwhore]

Saw the last tour with Fates Warning.   It was a fantastic show. 

[Samsara]

TAC,

re: Wilton's perspective -- hard to really provide that. He didn't do a fresh interview for the book. And even if he did, I don't think he'd directly answer that. You can tell from my interview with him back in 2002 that he was unhappy with what Tate wanted to do artistically - https://anybodylistening.net/images/mw-bh-Oct2002.pdf

But as for his thoughts in retrospect, I can say this much -- when we were on good terms before and during the split, he admitted that its difficult to leave a band that you started, particularly with a name and legacy such as Queensryche. It was, at least to me, and the way he said it to me, something you can tell he struggled with. He didn't want to leave the band he co-founded. But he also didn't want to lose the iconic voice that was a draw. It was a difficult situation. I can't quite put that in the book, as it wasn't an interview, simply conversation. But I can say Michael was in a tough spot, and I understood his reluctance to stir the pot before he did finally do it.

Again, the book will put the facts out there. The reader is to draw their own conclusions. We did our best to take any of our own biases and toss them. And we looked to balance things as honestly and thoroughly as we could. The book has a theme (Tate would be proud - lol) of perseverance, a term I think is very apt for Queensryche.

re: "success story" -- I disagree with your assessment. When you read the book, and you go in-depth on the formation, where they came from and what they achieved, the fact the band is still active, making new records (something that Cinderella doesn't do, and Tesla doesn't do well lately, to counter both your examples), and touring globally after 40 years is a "success" to me. These guys came from nothing in a place at the time was considered nowhere. The band had good songs but no singer. The singer had a band but not with the drive of the QR guys. They joined forces, developed a great working relationship, and for many years slowly built an empire. (Pun intended.) They survived the late 90s, used the mid-2000s to launch their career again with MC II (which put them into sold out theaters and amphitheaters after having been downgraded to clubs), died out again, and then with the firing of Tate, managed to recapture a metal audience with their new records. And while they are not playing big places any longer, they do, for the most part, have their artistic integrity back and intact (speaking generally, my personal opinion differs a bit). This band has been dealt blow after blow (and many from their own making), and just keep fighting back. To me, and to many, that is a success. And we'll be telling that story.

Don't get me wrong, our Queensryche book isn't this blow smoke up their ass bio. I would not be associated with a book that did that. But between the three of us, that word perseverance kept coming up, and it helped guide the writing. Ultimately, I think after reading the book, you'll have an appreciation from where they came, and where they are, and change your mind. They don't come out all roses. The warts are there to read (and make your own call on). But they are still here, writing new records, touring, and putting on well received shows. And that to me, is a success. 40 years and counting.

I even say in the book, both in my introduction, and the very last couple paragraphs of the final chapter, which I wrote, that QR isn't the same band it once was. That's obvious. But they keep overcoming obstacles to get back on their feet. And if you do that, time and time again after 40 years, that's a success.

But hey, read the book. I'll be curious to hear your honest reaction. It was a lot of fun writing it. And as a quick update, we have what will likely be our last meeting on the final copy of the book tomorrow night. It's all done, just giving the thumbs up on the edits. Then I need to do a copy edit (no changing of the general text, just looking for grammar and spelling mistakes). Then it's off to the designer! Excited.

Happy Father's Day T. Miss you bud. Hoping your travels bring you out here at some point soon again, or I head out your way. My 20 year law school reunion is in a couple years. I may take the opportunity to head back, track you down, and put a shopping cart next to you car.   What we really need to do is go see MAIDEN together when they tour next!

[bosk1]

I get the impression that Wilton is just somewhat of a passive guy by nature.  That has nothing to do with his artistic drive.  He just isn't a type-A personality.  Geoff is a type-A, and then some.  So I guess I'm not overly surprised that he let things get to where they were.  His personality type (assuming I am not too far off on that) and what Samsara described make it seem pretty logical to me that things played out the way they did.

[WilliamMunny]

TAC,

re: Wilton's perspective -- hard to really provide that. He didn't do a fresh interview for the book. And even if he did, I don't think he'd directly answer that. You can tell from my interview with him back in 2002 that he was unhappy with what Tate wanted to do artistically - https://anybodylistening.net/images/mw-bh-Oct2002.pdf

But as for his thoughts in retrospect, I can say this much -- when we were on good terms before and during the split, he admitted that its difficult to leave a band that you started, particularly with a name and legacy such as Queensryche. It was, at least to me, and the way he said it to me, something you can tell he struggled with. He didn't want to leave the band he co-founded. But he also didn't want to lose the iconic voice that was a draw. It was a difficult situation. I can't quite put that in the book, as it wasn't an interview, simply conversation. But I can say Michael was in a tough spot, and I understood his reluctance to stir the pot before he did finally do it.

Again, the book will put the facts out there. The reader is to draw their own conclusions. We did our best to take any of our own biases and toss them. And we looked to balance things as honestly and thoroughly as we could. The book has a theme (Tate would be proud - lol) of perseverance, a term I think is very apt for Queensryche.

re: "success story" -- I disagree with your assessment. When you read the book, and you go in-depth on the formation, where they came from and what they achieved, the fact the band is still active, making new records (something that Cinderella doesn't do, and Tesla doesn't do well lately, to counter both your examples), and touring globally after 40 years is a "success" to me. These guys came from nothing in a place at the time was considered nowhere. The band had good songs but no singer. The singer had a band but not with the drive of the QR guys. They joined forces, developed a great working relationship, and for many years slowly built an empire. (Pun intended.) They survived the late 90s, used the mid-2000s to launch their career again with MC II (which put them into sold out theaters and amphitheaters after having been downgraded to clubs), died out again, and then with the firing of Tate, managed to recapture a metal audience with their new records. And while they are not playing big places any longer, they do, for the most part, have their artistic integrity back and intact (speaking generally, my personal opinion differs a bit). This band has been dealt blow after blow (and many from their own making), and just keep fighting back. To me, and to many, that is a success. And we'll be telling that story.

Don't get me wrong, our Queensryche book isn't this blow smoke up their ass bio. I would not be associated with a book that did that. But between the three of us, that word perseverance kept coming up, and it helped guide the writing. Ultimately, I think after reading the book, you'll have an appreciation from where they came, and where they are, and change your mind. They don't come out all roses. The warts are there to read (and make your own call on). But they are still here, writing new records, touring, and putting on well received shows. And that to me, is a success. 40 years and counting.

I even say in the book, both in my introduction, and the very last couple paragraphs of the final chapter, which I wrote, that QR isn't the same band it once was. That's obvious. But they keep overcoming obstacles to get back on their feet. And if you do that, time and time again after 40 years, that's a success.

But hey, read the book. I'll be curious to hear your honest reaction. It was a lot of fun writing it. And as a quick update, we have what will likely be our last meeting on the final copy of the book tomorrow night. It's all done, just giving the thumbs up on the edits. Then I need to do a copy edit (no changing of the general text, just looking for grammar and spelling mistakes). Then it's off to the designer! Excited.

Happy Father's Day T. Miss you bud. Hoping your travels bring you out here at some point soon again, or I head out your way. My 20 year law school reunion is in a couple years. I may take the opportunity to head back, track you down, and put a shopping cart next to you car.   What we really need to do is go see MAIDEN together when they tour next!

I've probably said this before, but thank you in advance for writing this...I'm seriously excited to read it and am happy it's YOU, a lifelong fan with an invested interest, writing this.

[TAC]

TAC,

re: Wilton's perspective -- hard to really provide that. He didn't do a fresh interview for the book. And even if he did, I don't think he'd directly answer that. You can tell from my interview with him back in 2002 that he was unhappy with what Tate wanted to do artistically - https://anybodylistening.net/images/mw-bh-Oct2002.pdf

But as for his thoughts in retrospect, I can say this much -- when we were on good terms before and during the split, he admitted that its difficult to leave a band that you started, particularly with a name and legacy such as Queensryche. It was, at least to me, and the way he said it to me, something you can tell he struggled with. He didn't want to leave the band he co-founded. But he also didn't want to lose the iconic voice that was a draw. It was a difficult situation. I can't quite put that in the book, as it wasn't an interview, simply conversation. But I can say Michael was in a tough spot, and I understood his reluctance to stir the pot before he did finally do it.

Again, the book will put the facts out there. The reader is to draw their own conclusions. We did our best to take any of our own biases and toss them. And we looked to balance things as honestly and thoroughly as we could. The book has a theme (Tate would be proud - lol) of perseverance, a term I think is very apt for Queensryche.

re: "success story" -- I disagree with your assessment. When you read the book, and you go in-depth on the formation, where they came from and what they achieved, the fact the band is still active, making new records (something that Cinderella doesn't do, and Tesla doesn't do well lately, to counter both your examples), and touring globally after 40 years is a "success" to me. These guys came from nothing in a place at the time was considered nowhere. The band had good songs but no singer. The singer had a band but not with the drive of the QR guys. They joined forces, developed a great working relationship, and for many years slowly built an empire. (Pun intended.) They survived the late 90s, used the mid-2000s to launch their career again with MC II (which put them into sold out theaters and amphitheaters after having been downgraded to clubs), died out again, and then with the firing of Tate, managed to recapture a metal audience with their new records. And while they are not playing big places any longer, they do, for the most part, have their artistic integrity back and intact (speaking generally, my personal opinion differs a bit). This band has been dealt blow after blow (and many from their own making), and just keep fighting back. To me, and to many, that is a success. And we'll be telling that story.

Don't get me wrong, our Queensryche book isn't this blow smoke up their ass bio. I would not be associated with a book that did that. But between the three of us, that word perseverance kept coming up, and it helped guide the writing. Ultimately, I think after reading the book, you'll have an appreciation from where they came, and where they are, and change your mind. They don't come out all roses. The warts are there to read (and make your own call on). But they are still here, writing new records, touring, and putting on well received shows. And that to me, is a success. 40 years and counting.

I even say in the book, both in my introduction, and the very last couple paragraphs of the final chapter, which I wrote, that QR isn't the same band it once was. That's obvious. But they keep overcoming obstacles to get back on their feet. And if you do that, time and time again after 40 years, that's a success.

But hey, read the book. I'll be curious to hear your honest reaction. It was a lot of fun writing it. And as a quick update, we have what will likely be our last meeting on the final copy of the book tomorrow night. It's all done, just giving the thumbs up on the edits. Then I need to do a copy edit (no changing of the general text, just looking for grammar and spelling mistakes). Then it's off to the designer! Excited.

Happy Father's Day T. Miss you bud. Hoping your travels bring you out here at some point soon again, or I head out your way. My 20 year law school reunion is in a couple years. I may take the opportunity to head back, track you down, and put a shopping cart next to you car.   What we really need to do is go see MAIDEN together when they tour next!

Amen to the bolded part, Brian and Happy Father's Day to you. Lots going on as usual.


Thank you for not getting defensive about the success point. I treat everything I post here at DTF as a couple of dudes talking music over a couple of beers.
There's no doubt they're successful musicians. They've survived. I was just wondering how "huge" of a success it really was. That was my mindset, and you make good points.

Hell f'n yes I'm going to buy your book.


And who knows. Maybe one day we'll have a Pumpkins Ryche United tour where Kiske Tate and Hansen Degarmo return for a 7 piece spectacular.

[N4Player]

Sorry if this has been previously posted, but the band is releasing boxsets for Operation Mindcrime and Empire for those interested. Lots of content that most of us that are hardcore have seen or heard already but its Queensr˙che in the good old days. I personally will never tire of the 4 album stretch from Rage for Order to Promised Land. Nothing matches it for me personally by any band.

https://loudwire.com/queensryche-operation-mindcrime-empire-box-sets/

https://shop.udiscovermusic.com/collections/queensryche


 

[Samsara]

I've probably said this before, but thank you in advance for writing this...I'm seriously excited to read it and am happy it's YOU, a lifelong fan with an invested interest, writing this.

Thanks. Appreciate you saying that and the interest in the book. Just so that everyone knows, it's a three-person writing team. The main voice is James Beach. And he is joined by myself and Brian Naron, who is one of the largest collectors of the band in the world. The way our writing process works (or worked, since we are basically done with the writing) is that James did the first pass at the main narrative. Naron and I wrote a bunch of sidebars and extra sections apart from the narrative. Once James completed the main story/narrative, I then took it and edited/rewrote/wrote a bunch of additional content for the main narrative to provide color, context, clarity, and to smooth things out.

Naron was our main researcher, as he has literally everything, and if we needed something but couldn't remember where it was, he knew exactly where every quote was, everywhere. He didn't write as much as James and I (both James and I write/edit for a living), but we would have been lost without Naron's insight, edits and research. The three of us really work well together and it was, as you'll see, a total team effort that we're proud of.

More to come on the book. Once we sign off on all the edits tonight, then we jump into photos, have the designer mock up the front and back covers, establish pre-orders (there will be a special edition of some cool stuff hardcores will dig), and all the promotional stuff leading up the release. Really excited to share it with you all. I'd expect a press release to coincide with the cover unveiling and pre-orders some time late next month/early-August, and an October release date.

Amen to the bolded part, Brian and Happy Father's Day to you. Lots going on as usual.


Thank you for not getting defensive about the success point. I treat everything I post here at DTF as a couple of dudes talking music over a couple of beers.
There's no doubt they're successful musicians. They've survived. I was just wondering how "huge" of a success it really was. That was my mindset, and you make good points.

Hell f'n yes I'm going to buy your book.


And who knows. Maybe one day we'll have a Pumpkins Ryche United tour where Kiske Tate and Hansen Degarmo return for a 7 piece spectacular.

On the latter T, honestly, I'd rather not have Tate and DeGarmo return, personally. I'd rather just remember greatness when it was great.

As for the other stuff, I'd never take a discussion between us defensively. Everything is open to interpretation, and I could make the same argument about "success story" as you did. Your point has merit completely. As I said, I don't necessarily agree, but I absolutely see your point and it has merit to it. Enjoy the weekend bud!

Sorry if this has been previously posted, but the band is releasing boxsets for Operation Mindcrime and Empire for those interested. Lots of content that most of us that are hardcore have seen or heard already but its Queensr˙che in the good old days. I personally will never tire of the 4 album stretch from Rage for Order to Promised Land. Nothing matches it for me personally by any band.

https://loudwire.com/queensryche-operation-mindcrime-empire-box-sets/

https://shop.udiscovermusic.com/collections/queensryche


 

I did a blog about the contents that helps people decide if they want to buy it or not: https://anybodylistening.net/empire-30-details.html

I'm curious if the Abbey Road Studios remaster improves the terribly redlined remaster of 2003. But outside of that, there's nothing new except some new liner notes. Every single piece of musical or video content has been available before in some form or another. Here's the bottom line from my blog:

"In a nutshell, unless you've never owned these two albums previously (unlikely if you are reading this blog) or lost all your physical media over the years for whatever reason, there's almost ZERO reason to purchase these two new editions. Of course, completists may want the newly remastered audio and the different packaging. But there isn't much bang for your buck here."

>>>>Being a completist myself, I'll get the sets down the road. But at full price, I'm not feeling the need to get it. The content is a total letdown.

Regarding the band's catalog, for me, a properly resequenced version of The Warning through Promised Land is the pinnacle of Queensryche's recorded content. And honestly, I've grown quite fond of about 2/3 of Hear in the Now Frontier over the years. That original band had something really special that not many bands can replicate for the length of time Queensryche did.

Anyway, if anyone picks up these box sets, please do an A/B listen of the original/2003 remaster/2021 remaster. Would be really curious to hear if they actually got it right.

[emtee]

I spun Empire today after too many years to count. Flawless perfection from beginning to end. And OMG does Tate ever sound amazing. I forgot how much I love this album.

[Samsara]

I spun Empire today after too many years to count. Flawless perfection from beginning to end. And OMG does Tate ever sound amazing. I forgot how much I love this album.

From a sonic perspective, there aren't many that top it. Many engineers used that album to test rooms for recording. It's just so perfectly done. Really a shame that with the new box set the demos weren't cleaned up and put out there. They've been available to traders and now on YouTube, for a long time now. But I would have loved to have had a whole disc of cleaned up demo material, and maybe a fresh interview with Jimbo Barton about recording Empire. Oh well.

[T-ski]

I know not everyone enjoys reaction videos but this found its way to me on YouTube, dudes first time hearing Mindcrime and he tries his best to piece the story together as he goes.  It was almost like hearing it again for the first time myself…

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhHrgMNSTIpTZHgjx1rh4RygmNHCoD4px

[ytserush]

Here's the thing. Tate gets the most blame from people for the falling out. And IMO, that's justified. Once Chris left, and with every subsequent album and tour, Tate and his wife took more and more control of Queensryche and made it their personal family business. And in doing so, they made a LOT of missteps along the way, both musically (IMO) and financially. That said, however, it would be ridiculous to blame only Tate. The rest of the band allowed it to happen. Why? Because they were getting paid. They might not have liked what Tate and his wife were doing, but they certainly enjoyed the money. And when it comes right down to it, Queensryche, as a band, once DeGarmo left, really became all about a cash grab, as opposed to art.

Sure, Tate deserves some credit for coming up with the theme, or vision for all the records following Chris' departure, and steering QR in the direction he felt the band should move. Perhaps it was artistically fulfilling for him. But the more you follow the story, the most it becomes painfully obvious that as long as their wallets were filled, no one was going to rock the boat.

It wasn't until after Tate and his wife pushed too hard and too far, that the band actually started to listen to the people who actually cared. So if you're going to be fair, yes, a huge amount of blame is on the Tates for their greed and nepotism. But Wilton, Rockenfield and Jackson allowed it to happen, IMO, because they were getting paid. At that point in their lives (1998-2012), I would assume they felt as long as the money was coming in, they could put up with the dramatics from their singer and his wife. Then the Tates got too greedy, and that was that.

So blame all around.

After all these years, I hate even thinking about all that. We discussed it in the forthcoming biography, but tried to just give all the facts and let people make their own decisions on who is to blame. We stayed as balanced as possible, but there was no getting around some of the shadiness from the Tate camp. It was what it was.

Queensryche is celebrating 40 years as a band next year. The band is a huge success story. How they got there wasn't pretty. But it's damn noteworthy that they have been an active band for 40 years.

Behind The Music episode waiting to happen....

[Ruba]

If there's an option of international shipping for the book, I'd gladly buy a copy. 

I will in no way begrudge a professional musician's 40 year career, but to call this band a huge success story is a bit much, no?

They are an 80's has been band that had some success in the 90's. In the end they are really no different than Cinderella or Tesla. And I'd never call either a huge success story.

That's a little harsh I think. Their 1980s output is very highly rated, Operation:Mindcrime pops up on most "greatest heavy metal albums ever" lists. And their 1990s success is nothing to sneer at: two top ten albums, one top ten hit, seven top ten Mainstream Rock hits. Not many metal bands boast such a record.

In addition, them being linked to the first wave of progressive metal has also given them a certain "cult" status. While I don't personally consider them prog metal band outside of Rage for Order and some songs from The Warning and O:M, I think progressive can also mean the opposite of "stagnant". And that's something you can not say about the classic line-up discography. Even if someone would consider Hear in the Now Frontier a misfire, it is in no way a retread of what they had done previously.

[TAC]

I will in no way begrudge a professional musician's 40 year career, but to call this band a huge success story is a bit much, no?

They are an 80's has been band that had some success in the 90's. In the end they are really no different than Cinderella or Tesla. And I'd never call either a huge success story.

That's a little harsh I think. Their 1980s output is very highly rated, Operation:Mindcrime pops up on most "greatest heavy metal albums ever" lists. And their 1990s success is nothing to sneer at: two top ten albums, one top ten hit, seven top ten Mainstream Rock hits. Not many metal bands boast such a record.

Hey Ruba! I was just pushing back a bit on this statement:

Queensryche is celebrating 40 years as a band next year. The band is a huge success story.

I just thought it was a slight exaggeration. But Samsara responded so we're all good.

In addition, them being linked to the first wave of progressive metal has also given them a certain "cult" status. While I don't personally consider them prog metal band outside of Rage for Order and some songs from The Warning and O:M, I think progressive can also mean the opposite of "stagnant". And that's something you can not say about the classic line-up discography. Even if someone would consider Hear in the Now Frontier a misfire, it is in no way a retread of what they had done previously.

I agree with this.

[Lowdz]

I spun Empire today after too many years to count. Flawless perfection from beginning to end. And OMG does Tate ever sound amazing. I forgot how much I love this album.

From a sonic perspective, there aren't many that top it. Many engineers used that album to test rooms for recording. It's just so perfectly done. Really a shame that with the new box set the demos weren't cleaned up and put out there. They've been available to traders and now on YouTube, for a long time now. But I would have loved to have had a whole disc of cleaned up demo material, and maybe a fresh interview with Jimbo Barton about recording Empire. Oh well.

I was pretty disappointed with the deluxe editions in regards to features and things that weren’t on the last batch of reissues. As you say, demos would have been new to me. The Empire one doesn’t even include the 5:1 mix. Mindcrime could have done with a 5:1 mix too.

The Marillion reissues remain the go,d standard for how these things should be done.

[Setlist Scotty]

I spun Empire today after too many years to count. Flawless perfection from beginning to end. And OMG does Tate ever sound amazing. I forgot how much I love this album.

From a sonic perspective, there aren't many that top it. Many engineers used that album to test rooms for recording. It's just so perfectly done. Really a shame that with the new box set the demos weren't cleaned up and put out there. They've been available to traders and now on YouTube, for a long time now. But I would have loved to have had a whole disc of cleaned up demo material, and maybe a fresh interview with Jimbo Barton about recording Empire. Oh well.

I was pretty disappointed with the deluxe editions in regards to features and things that weren’t on the last batch of reissues. As you say, demos would have been new to me. The Empire one doesn’t even include the 5:1 mix. Mindcrime could have done with a 5:1 mix too.

Considering that the band had absolutely no involvement in the deluxe edition, I wonder if Tater and the label even had copies of the demos in the first place. Wouldn't be surprised if the only guys to still have that stuff are Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield. Would be curious to know why they weren't involved - if it was because of Tater's involvement, the kind of deal they were offered, (considering how Tater hid stuff from them in trying to score a deal for himself with O:M all those years ago) a lack of communication or something else.

[Stadler]

Without a 5.1 mix, I'm 100% out on that purchase. 

[ProfessorPeart]

We'll get all of that stuff from Rockenryche. He'll put out addendums to the 'terrible' reissues. 

What happened with Rockenryche? Been quiet there. Haven't seen him pop up in the news lately.

[EPICVIEW]

I spun Empire today after too many years to count. Flawless perfection from beginning to end. And OMG does Tate ever sound amazing. I forgot how much I love this album.

From a sonic perspective, there aren't many that top it. Many engineers used that album to test rooms for recording. It's just so perfectly done. Really a shame that with the new box set the demos weren't cleaned up and put out there. They've been available to traders and now on YouTube, for a long time now. But I would have loved to have had a whole disc of cleaned up demo material, and maybe a fresh interview with Jimbo Barton about recording Empire. Oh well.

I was pretty disappointed with the deluxe editions in regards to features and things that weren’t on the last batch of reissues. As you say, demos would have been new to me. The Empire one doesn’t even include the 5:1 mix. Mindcrime could have done with a 5:1 mix too.

Considering that the band had absolutely no involvement in the deluxe edition, I wonder if Tater and the label even had copies of the demos in the first place. Wouldn't be surprised if the only guys to still have that stuff are Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield. Would be curious to know why they weren't involved - if it was because of Tater's involvement, the kind of deal they were offered, (considering how Tater hid stuff from them in trying to score a deal for himself with O:M all those years ago) a lack of communication or something else.

I believe the "band" was involved along with Tate,   I dont see how Tate can release anything using old QR material without all parties involved and signing off on it, unless something has changed outside of the 3 year agreement at the time of Tate being bought out and selling back his stock.

[Grappler]

[Considering that the band had absolutely no involvement in the deluxe edition, I wonder if Tater and the label even had copies of the demos in the first place. Wouldn't be surprised if the only guys to still have that stuff are Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield. Would be curious to know why they weren't involved - if it was because of Tater's involvement, the kind of deal they were offered, (considering how Tater hid stuff from them in trying to score a deal for himself with O:M all those years ago) a lack of communication or something else.

I think there is a lot of laziness involved, and it has nothing to do with Tate.   We all accurately felt that he was driving the directly of the band prior to his firing.  I certainly expected a lot of change for the better afterwards, and I didn't necessarily get that.

Musically, the band improved to what I wanted them to be.  But they continually missed opportunities to do fun things - album anniversary releases, or at least representation in the live show.  Look at DT - they acknowledged things like that (Breaking the Fourth Wall - playing the second half of Awake, etc.)  Queensryche's setlists became very, very stagnant, and the band would tour 2-3 years without changing much up, and even then, it was "hey, here's a couple of old songs Todd hasn't sung yet."  They didn't represent newer material heavily until the band had put out three albums with Todd, which took 7 years.  Prior to Tate's firing, the band would play two hour shows and feature a good 5-6 new songs every night.  That no longer happened, and the shows were cut down to no more than 90 minutes, usually closer to 75-80.  Here's the hits, here's one new song....goodnight!

So to me, it's complete laziness from the remaining original band members along with lack of wanting to invest in these things - it would probably cost them some decent money to remaster/remix a particular album or record a new live performance of that album as a bonus disc.  Hell, they could at least buy the live recordings from festival gigs (Wacken, Hellfest) and put them out as a DVD.  I can't tell you how many live dvd's I have from bands that released their show from Wacken. 

They don't want to spend the money on it, or take the time to cull through their archives, if they even have any.  They seem happy to just put in the minimum amount of effort for the maximum payday, then take the stance of "well we weren't asked/didn't have anything to do with it," if fans ask. 

[goo-goo]

[Considering that the band had absolutely no involvement in the deluxe edition, I wonder if Tater and the label even had copies of the demos in the first place. Wouldn't be surprised if the only guys to still have that stuff are Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield. Would be curious to know why they weren't involved - if it was because of Tater's involvement, the kind of deal they were offered, (considering how Tater hid stuff from them in trying to score a deal for himself with O:M all those years ago) a lack of communication or something else.

I think there is a lot of laziness involved, and it has nothing to do with Tate.   We all accurately felt that he was driving the directly of the band prior to his firing.  I certainly expected a lot of change for the better afterwards, and I didn't necessarily get that.

Musically, the band improved to what I wanted them to be.  But they continually missed opportunities to do fun things - album anniversary releases, or at least representation in the live show.  Look at DT - they acknowledged things like that (Breaking the Fourth Wall - playing the second half of Awake, etc.)  Queensryche's setlists became very, very stagnant, and the band would tour 2-3 years without changing much up, and even then, it was "hey, here's a couple of old songs Todd hasn't sung yet."  They didn't represent newer material heavily until the band had put out three albums with Todd, which took 7 years.  Prior to Tate's firing, the band would play two hour shows and feature a good 5-6 new songs every night.  That no longer happened, and the shows were cut down to no more than 90 minutes, usually closer to 75-80.  Here's the hits, here's one new song....goodnight!

So to me, it's complete laziness from the remaining original band members along with lack of wanting to invest in these things - it would probably cost them some decent money to remaster/remix a particular album or record a new live performance of that album as a bonus disc.  Hell, they could at least buy the live recordings from festival gigs (Wacken, Hellfest) and put them out as a DVD.  I can't tell you how many live dvd's I have from bands that released their show from Wacken. 

They don't want to spend the money on it, or take the time to cull through their archives, if they even have any.  They seem happy to just put in the minimum amount of effort for the maximum payday, then take the stance of "well we weren't asked/didn't have anything to do with it," if fans ask.

Don't disagree with anything you said but remember they lost a ton of money with the release of The Verdict with the Pledgemusic fallout. I think Todd mentioned it was 300k (probably more). Plus, they might still be paying off Geoff and/or Scott. But yes, they could have capitalized with the anniversaries and stuff like that.

[Grappler]

Don't disagree with anything you said but remember they lost a ton of money with the release of The Verdict with the Pledgemusic fallout. I think Todd mentioned it was 300k (probably more). Plus, they might still be paying off Geoff and/or Scott. But yes, they could have capitalized with the anniversaries and stuff like that.

I absolutely agree - they found themselves in a financial hole, but these issues go back well before the pledgemusic fiasco for The Verdict.  Setlists stagnated after the release of the self-titled and certainly during the Condition Human tours.  The Warning and RFO's anniversaries passed without any mention from the band in 2014 and 2016. 

Work with a promoter and do a show in Seattle to commemorate those albums - play each one live, record it, and release a live album, or some new live bonus tracks for a re-release or EP.  Or whatever.  A little creativity and effort can go a long way.

My point is that Geoff isn't solely to blame for EVERYTHING, and the guys in the band now don't seem to be interested in doing anything other than the same thing year after year. 

[goo-goo]

Don't disagree with anything you said but remember they lost a ton of money with the release of The Verdict with the Pledgemusic fallout. I think Todd mentioned it was 300k (probably more). Plus, they might still be paying off Geoff and/or Scott. But yes, they could have capitalized with the anniversaries and stuff like that.

I absolutely agree - they found themselves in a financial hole, but these issues go back well before the pledgemusic fiasco for The Verdict.  Setlists stagnated after the release of the self-titled and certainly during the Condition Human tours.  The Warning and RFO's anniversaries passed without any mention from the band in 2014 and 2016. 

Work with a promoter and do a show in Seattle to commemorate those albums - play each one live, record it, and release a live album, or some new live bonus tracks for a re-release or EP.  Or whatever.  A little creativity and effort can go a long way.

My point is that Geoff isn't solely to blame for EVERYTHING, and the guys in the band now don't seem to be interested in doing anything other than the same thing year after year.

Yep. Absolutely agree. I think Todd would have done a good job singing the older albums. I think Geoff has done a good job on that aspect (album anniversaries and tours). He seems to be always one step ahead from QR in that regard.

[TAC]

That's because the guys in Queensryche can't fucking think for themselves.

[T-ski]

That's because the guys in Queensryche can't fucking think for themselves.

They literally wrote a song with the lyric “think for yourself”.

[TAC]

 

[EPICVIEW]

[Considering that the band had absolutely no involvement in the deluxe edition, I wonder if Tater and the label even had copies of the demos in the first place. Wouldn't be surprised if the only guys to still have that stuff are Wilton, Jackson and Rockenfield. Would be curious to know why they weren't involved - if it was because of Tater's involvement, the kind of deal they were offered, (considering how Tater hid stuff from them in trying to score a deal for himself with O:M all those years ago) a lack of communication or something else.

I think there is a lot of laziness involved, and it has nothing to do with Tate.   We all accurately felt that he was driving the directly of the band prior to his firing.  I certainly expected a lot of change for the better afterwards, and I didn't necessarily get that.

Musically, the band improved to what I wanted them to be.  But they continually missed opportunities to do fun things - album anniversary releases, or at least representation in the live show.  Look at DT - they acknowledged things like that (Breaking the Fourth Wall - playing the second half of Awake, etc.)  Queensryche's setlists became very, very stagnant, and the band would tour 2-3 years without changing much up, and even then, it was "hey, here's a couple of old songs Todd hasn't sung yet."  They didn't represent newer material heavily until the band had put out three albums with Todd, which took 7 years.  Prior to Tate's firing, the band would play two hour shows and feature a good 5-6 new songs every night.  That no longer happened, and the shows were cut down to no more than 90 minutes, usually closer to 75-80.  Here's the hits, here's one new song....goodnight!

So to me, it's complete laziness from the remaining original band members along with lack of wanting to invest in these things - it would probably cost them some decent money to remaster/remix a particular album or record a new live performance of that album as a bonus disc.  Hell, they could at least buy the live recordings from festival gigs (Wacken, Hellfest) and put them out as a DVD.  I can't tell you how many live dvd's I have from bands that released their show from Wacken. 

They don't want to spend the money on it, or take the time to cull through their archives, if they even have any.  They seem happy to just put in the minimum amount of effort for the maximum payday, then take the stance of "well we weren't asked/didn't have anything to do with it," if fans ask.

Don't disagree with anything you said but remember they lost a ton of money with the release of The Verdict with the Pledgemusic fallout. I think Todd mentioned it was 300k (probably more). Plus, they might still be paying off Geoff and/or Scott. But yes, they could have capitalized with the anniversaries and stuff like that.

yep,,,,,I believe Scott is still a partner on the LLC and was not bought out hence why he feels he can use the name etc, and he knows they have no money to stop him as was touched on a few pages back, who knows what contract Casey signed and when and I think Scotts moves where part of that equation, sadly IMO Todd has become defacto Geoff as far as cat hearding and doing most of the work ,nothing changed and I think history will say the break up was a disaster for the band,  for Tate not as bad.  again my opinion. I think this because this band was too old to break up, was doing well touring and had a loyal following. maybe Im wrong but they spent all the money on a bad divorce from Geoff who made out fine.  the Todd QR is disposable as the old QR albums become more classic and celebrated IMO   ..

[EPICVIEW]

Sorry if this has been previously posted, but the band is releasing boxsets for Operation Mindcrime and Empire for those interested. Lots of content that most of us that are hardcore have seen or heard already but its Queensr˙che in the good old days. I personally will never tire of the 4 album stretch from Rage for Order to Promised Land. Nothing matches it for me personally by any band.

https://loudwire.com/queensryche-operation-mindcrime-empire-box-sets/

https://shop.udiscovermusic.com/collections/queensryche

thank you and welcome