Author Topic: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album  (Read 692501 times)

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Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3570 on: February 25, 2019, 03:44:30 PM »
re: HITNF guitar leads. One of the things I really appreciate now, much more than 22 years ago, was the experimentation with typical placement of leads. There is guitar soloing ALL OVER "spOOL," and instead of it being where it traditionally would be, listen behind the choruses. There are guitar leads being played each time, and each time, they are different. All aggressive, experimenting with some wah, but also some clean stuff, and then they just forego the traditional solo, and do this moody bridge leading into another background lead line into the chorus (which again has a different lead, its in the same wheelhouse, but slightly different than the other two times, and at times gets a bit shreddy). And then the harmony effect leading to the end of the tune.

Again, so much guitar ear candy in there. Its just understated. I'm not saying HITNF is a great album. Clearly, it has its warts and issues. But it seriously has improved with the passage of time, and there's so many levels to it that is so inspiring, even two decades later. It's really a shame what went down way back then.
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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3571 on: February 25, 2019, 04:36:38 PM »
I always looked at that album as a band sonically trying something different.   I really liked it. 
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Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3572 on: February 26, 2019, 02:50:56 AM »
That's cool.  I like what they are apparently doing, based on that set list and the plan to add more songs.  Condition Human, the song, is my least favorite song on that album and the only one I really feel like skipping.  So it's inclusion evokes two different reactions from me: On one hand, I think it is REALLY cool that they are finally showing a commitment to the new material by pulling out deep tracks like this.  But on the other hand, if them pulling out the worst track from their last two albums combined is the best compliment I can give them, then they really are falling flat on their faces in terms of knowing what fans want.

Well, I as a fan think that Condition Human is a great song, so I don't see them falling flat on their faces by including it, and they seem to know what at leats one fan wants.  ;)

Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3573 on: February 26, 2019, 08:47:27 AM »
re: Condition Human (the song)

I dig the moodiness of if, but it gets to that point where it becomes a rehash of Suite Sister Mary. Very derivative. I may have said this earlier in the thread, but if they just removed that whole gothic middle part, I think the song would have been better.

re: HITNF

I always looked at that album as a band sonically trying something different.   I really liked it. 

I remember when it came out, I was shocked at first, and it took a bit to get into it. Eventually I did. But while I had been a fan since 1987, I wasn't really educated in music, and what goes into writing, and the little details. Nowadays, going back to a lot of old record, with a lot of years and music listening and education under my belt, I can pick out stuff I just glossed over before, and really finding some gold. There was so much more to it under the surface.
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Offline pfillion

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3574 on: February 26, 2019, 10:39:12 AM »

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3575 on: February 26, 2019, 10:49:38 AM »
Video for Blood of the Levant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZNa1BONdu4

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3576 on: February 26, 2019, 01:30:29 PM »

I was in my last year of school at Berkeley when the album dropped, and there was a Bay Area radio station that was playing Reach.  I always liked that song a lot.  But it was one that I wish they had fleshed out a bit more.  Wilton's solo was cool, but felt like a little interlude solo that should go between verses.  If they had moved it there and done a longer, more complex bridge and solo section, that song could have been fantastic.

If it was 1990 instead of 1997, I think they might have done that. But remember the timeframe, and remember what they were trying to accomplish with HITNF. Less was more back then. It was an experiment in stripping things away. I felt Reach's solo fit that, and was one of the better examples of how to do it right. It repeats the same riffing two or three times, and then goes up a short run down the fretboard. I think Reach's solo though really was all that tune called for, which was the point at the time -- it was just a sign of the times.

One of the things I love about the song is the clean guitar in the verses that just strummed gave it some atmosphere before kicking in right before the chorus with the other guitar. I also think the little solo during the last chorus before the outro was a nice touch as well. Love the song as-is from the get-go.

That said, I wouldn't mind if the band tinkered with that one live, and did as you suggest. Why the hell not, ya know? Times are different, re-work it for the live show, see what happens.

I remember on the Tribe tour (the headline one in fall 2003), Wilton did something similar and came up with a small guitar lead for "The Great Divide" because people were clamoring to add a solo. https://youtu.be/BSg04855L1E?t=104

It was cool, and added a little bit to the mood of the tune.

Thats a great video. I feel Tribe is really under appreciated. Its has great songs...Open, Rhythm of Hope, The Great Divide, Desert Dance. I enjoy the tribal feel it has.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3577 on: February 26, 2019, 02:35:14 PM »
The only songs I'm not really a fan of are Losing Myself (which was written by Mike Stone), and Doin' Fine (which sounds fine musically, but I really dislike the lyrics and vocal melody Tate used). I'm not huge on Blood either, because the song is incomplete, and the implications Tate is making with the song (I preferred when QR encouraged us to think, rather than tell us what to think, or who they blame, etc.)

Tribe is a such a let down. There was a lot of promise there. Most of those songs weren't really done. Blood wasn't finished, a guitar solo wasn't added to The Great Divide (they were going to, ran out of time), and some stuff was sort of half-baked.

The DeGarmo-involved stuff, to me, is superior:

Open
Desert Dance
Falling Behind
The Art of Life
Doin' Fine
Justified (meant for Tribe, found on Sign of the Times: The Best of QR)

But the remainder isn't bad at all, just needed a bit more work:

The Great Divide
Tribe
Rhythm of Hope
Losing Myself
Blood
Hostage (the song was finished after Tribe was submitted, and it was re-cut to add the courtroom stuff, and a harmonized solo instead of Wilton's little shred solo on Mindcrime II)

Had the original band stayed together, and none of the drama happened, we probably would have gotten a great record from top to bottom (Losing Myself probably would never have even surfaced, and Blood may never have been done either), with some real emotional bent to it. Tate was inspired for sure, and it is a shame the record never really got done the way I think they were all intending it to. I really enjoyed that little solo Wilton wrote for The Great Divide. And yes, the tribal feel worked for me too.
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Offline goo-goo

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3578 on: February 26, 2019, 02:35:29 PM »
I'm probably one of the few that enjoys Tribe a lot. One of things that I like is the vocal melodies on this one. Most of the tunes are catchy. It feels that all of the instruments support Tate's voice and melodies.

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3579 on: February 26, 2019, 02:44:20 PM »
I like Tribe a lot and also prefer the DeGarmo material of the album.

Offline Lowdz

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3580 on: February 26, 2019, 04:05:20 PM »
I’ve just never got the love for Tribe. Nothing on there that interested me at all, even with the return of CDG. I’d take Q2K over it.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3581 on: February 26, 2019, 04:28:02 PM »
I still wish the band would perform Open Live.
..

That has to be my favorute Queensryche song.
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Offline Grappler

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3582 on: February 27, 2019, 06:18:03 AM »
I’ve just never got the love for Tribe. Nothing on there that interested me at all, even with the return of CDG. I’d take Q2K over it.

Thank you!   I've been of that same opinion for a long time.  I like a handful of songs on Tribe, but that's all.  Q2K is a better record to me.  :metal

Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3583 on: February 27, 2019, 09:19:37 AM »
For me, if you listen to the DeGarmo-involved tracks, you see a natural progression of them from HITNF. It was like that sonic evolutionary thread picked up, and you saw something with some more straight ahead riffs, some more mood, and a slightly better mix. It was a continuation of where they were in a slightly new direction. I really dug what those DeGarmo-involved Tribe tracks were doing.

The other tracks, as unfinished as they were to a degree (and to be fair, Open was also unfinished, it was missing a solo, something Wilton sort of put in during the live set a little), also had a new vibe. Moody, darker, harkening back to PL with the mood, but with a modern hard rock flair.

Generally these days I just listen to the DeGarmo tracks. I like hearing the band's evolutionary path as songwriters continued. But it will always disappoint me that the reunion was ruined by power and greed.
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Offline T-ski

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3584 on: February 27, 2019, 09:55:52 AM »
is it just me or does this section of "Dark Reverie" sound like Savatage's "Gutter Ballet"?

https://youtu.be/t3dcf1EekiE?t=193
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Offline pfillion

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3585 on: February 27, 2019, 11:08:22 AM »

Offline devieira73

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3586 on: February 27, 2019, 12:41:09 PM »
A bit late on the album ranking here, but anyway... in preference order. Queensryche was my favorite band before I've heard DT/I&W in 1993. Still, as you will see, I kind of never gave up from the band, even in its "darkest" moments. In 1 to 10 scale:

O:M and Empire: 10
RFO: 9,5
Warning, EP and PL: 9
HITNF: 8,5 (I guess I like this album much more than the majority here)
Queensryche and CH: 8,5 (by the way, CH is the best song off the latter IMO)
O:M2: 8,0
AS and FU: 7,5 (Call me crazy about FU)
Q2K: 7,00
Tribe: 6,00 (Even in the CDG tracks, the band really doesn't sound unified)
DTC: 5,0 (it's not so bad to my ears, really)

So... like the reviews say, the best albums since PL? HITNF and the ones with TLT, no doubt!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 01:58:00 PM by devieira73 »
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Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3587 on: February 27, 2019, 01:25:54 PM »
I’ve just never got the love for Tribe. Nothing on there that interested me at all, even with the return of CDG. I’d take Q2K over it.

Yeah, same here. Worst QR record imo (maybe that would be D2C, but I haven't heard it in full). Tribe is just boring from start to finish, CDG adds nothing interesting.

But then I'm one of those that really enjoy Q2K.  ;)
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3588 on: February 27, 2019, 01:40:56 PM »
Q2k has had some staying power for me. I've said this for years, but I thought as a debut record with a new main songwriter, it was pretty good, and had me wanting to see where they went with album 2, and it never happened. It really did sound like a different band (for the most part). I remember when I was in law school at the time, I had it on in my living room, and my roommate listened, and he said "THAT'S QUEENSRYCHE?" Not in a bad way, it was just so different for him (the last he has heard was Empire).

He thought it was modern and good, and that was coming from a guy who really wasn't a music junkie or big fan. He just loved hard rock in general.

I thought that was an interesting take, and a couple of others said the same. Q2k, released with a different band's name, with a lot of backing, probably would have generated interest. But it came with the Queensryche name tag, expectations, etc. Is it a great record? Of course not. It's OK. It had some promising stuff, and some duds. But the chemistry after the initial tour was obviously not right, given what happened with them all. It was probably better left in the past.

But I still really dig Howl (bonus track), When the Rain Comes, Liquid Sky, Falling Down, Right Side, and Sacred Ground (musically. the lyrics were awful. No more odes to the nether regions of wives please - lol). Burning Man had promise, musically, but they never really fleshed it out like I hoped they would. That intro is cool.
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Offline Setzer

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3589 on: February 27, 2019, 03:40:04 PM »
Sacred Ground (musically. the lyrics were awful. No more odes to the nether regions of wives please - lol).
This! I only just got into this album the other day, and that is the song that has been stuck in my head the most.
You change a single word from "inside", to "beside", and the song becomes much more tolerable :rollin

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3590 on: February 28, 2019, 12:05:36 AM »
(Edit: ignore this, it was probably a bad idea :facepalm:)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 12:15:01 AM by IDontNotDoThings »
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Offline Mladen

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3591 on: February 28, 2019, 03:10:07 AM »
Sacred Ground (musically. the lyrics were awful. No more odes to the nether regions of wives please - lol).
This! I only just got into this album the other day, and that is the song that has been stuck in my head the most.
You change a single word from "inside", to "beside", and the song becomes much more tolerable :rollin
It actually makes an enormous difference.  :lol

I spent the last several days revisiting Condition human. I know it is a popular thing to say, but that one truly was the best Queensryche album since Promised land. It's so consistent, well-rounded, sonically flawless and catchy. It feels like a real band effort with all five guys being involved. The artwork is also very good.

It's gonna be hard for The Verdict to top it, really.

Offline Grappler

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3592 on: February 28, 2019, 04:45:27 AM »
Sacred Ground (musically. the lyrics were awful. No more odes to the nether regions of wives please - lol).
This! I only just got into this album the other day, and that is the song that has been stuck in my head the most.
You change a single word from "inside", to "beside", and the song becomes much more tolerable :rollin
It actually makes an enormous difference.  :lol

I spent the last several days revisiting Condition human. I know it is a popular thing to say, but that one truly was the best Queensryche album since Promised land. It's so consistent, well-rounded, sonically flawless and catchy. It feels like a real band effort with all five guys being involved. The artwork is also very good.

It's gonna be hard for The Verdict to top it, really.

I actually really like a lot of The Verdict.   Condition Human had too many mid-tempo or slow songs/ballads.  The Verdict is full of faster and heavier songs - I've only given it one quick listen, but the album sounds really good too.

The Condition Human artwork sucks.  It's blocky and looks incredibly amateur...which it actually is.  Todd's friend is an artist and was struggling with some hard times, so he threw the guy a bone and let him do the album artwork.  It was so dark that when it was printed, you couldn't even see the details or read the song titles clearly. 

Offline goo-goo

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3593 on: February 28, 2019, 08:23:21 AM »
Apparently there's a 2CD edition of The Verdict and has the bonus tracks from Condition Human

Disc 1
01. Blood of the Levant (03:27)
02. Man The Machine (03:50)
03. Light-years (04:09)
04. Inside Out (04:31)
05. Propaganda Fashion (03:36)
06. Dark Reverie (04:23)
07. Bent (05:59)
08. Inner Unrest (03:50)
09. Launder the Conscience (05:15)
10. Portrait (05:16)
Disc 2
01. I Dream in Infrared (Acoustic) (03:59)
02. Open Road (Acoustic) (03:39)
03. 46° North (03:33)
04. Mercury Rising (03:55)
05. Espiritu Muerto (03:40)
06. Queen of the Reich (live) (Live 2012) (04:34)
07. En Force (live) (Live 2012) (04:21)
08. Prophecy (live) (Live 2012) (04:09)
09. Eyes Of A Stranger (Live 2012) (06:55)

Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3594 on: February 28, 2019, 08:50:39 AM »
And the bonus tracks from the self-titled (the live stuff). My guess is, this is the last record on QR's deal with Century Media. So they are getting it all out there.

Listening to The Verdict now...
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Offline Bertielee

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3595 on: February 28, 2019, 08:59:11 AM »
And the bonus tracks from the self-titled (the live stuff). My guess is, this is the last record on QR's deal with Century Media. So they are getting it all out there.

Listening to The Verdict now...

Give us your opinion when you have finished listening. What I've heard kinda appeals to me.

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Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3596 on: February 28, 2019, 10:13:23 AM »
I was just doing that. Here's an off-the-cuff report, written as I was listening:

Blood of the Levant – Good drama at the beginning, holding those notes. Rhythms under the verses are simplistic, really highlight La Torre’s voice. Mix seems to feature him a bit more than I remember Condition Human doing. Bridge to the song is classic QR leading into that solo…err…wait, that was the solo? Ok, so they do two bridges, and then a harmonized guitar solo part before kicking back in again. Kinda cool, but neither really goes anywhere. Not a bad lead track, but not really Queensryche-ish.

Man the Machine – this sounds like the guitar overtones of Operation: Mindcrime in the beginning, along with Wilton’s classic Rychean shread style. I like the little lead break after the first verse. Again, classic QR sounding guitar lead by Wilton. The chorus is better than I remember it being the first time I heard it. Not hugely melodic, but that “broken, broken” part has nice drama to it. Not sure who is doing the solo, it sounds like Wilton a little, but could be Parker. La Torre sounds pretty loose too, much more setting his own tone and imprint. That time change at the end, nice little nod to the proggy side of the band. I don’t really like the section, but the shift was cool to close.

Light Years – dramatic intro ala Promised Land, and a great heavy, yet melodic intro. Not a classic QR sounding intro, but once the guitars cut down, I love Ed’s bass. More mid-tempo here. La Torre singing a little deeper here, trying to use his chest voice a bit more. Without remembering the credits, this sounds like a song Ed wrote, particularly in the chorus. I love the moody guitar after the chorus mixed with the bass line. Really cool. Then the solo. Harmonized, but different for QR. Sounds like Parker wrote this one and is doubled by Wilton. Could be wrong, but doesn’t seem like Wilton’s style. Unlike the first two, this one sounds less influenced by classic QR, and more their own thing in a post-Tate and post-DeGarmo world.

Inside Out – What the hell is that intro. Very, very different for the band. I think this is the one some people compared to Hear in the Now Frontier. I don’t hear that, but it does have a more stripped down, slower pace to it to start, and some funky rhythm. The chorus is a little more traditional and ramps up the intensity a bit. Another mid-tempo cut, and the most unique so far. Song never really goes anywhere to me though. The time changes are cool. I dig the bridge, very clean guitars, just serene picking with a slight middle eastern flavor until the solo, which sounds like Wilton to me, ala Another Rainy Night to a degree. Then the song changes again, with some orchestration before kicking back into a mid-tempo but heavier section, then aggressive before just fading out over the last 20 second. Man, this song is different for them. Not sure I like it. Needs more time, but it was cool to hear something different.

Propaganda Fashion – Kicks right off in an aggressive manner. Did La Torre just say “mother fuckers” in a Queensryche song? Wow. This song is all over the place. It is jumpy. The chorus sounds like something Tate did on Dedicated to Chaos, at least tonally. The solo is basically forgettable, and then more ranting in the verses. I really don’t like this one. It has some cool guitar harmonics, but sounds like a cross between Condition Human/Dedicated to Chaos/Hear in the Now Frontier. Weird.

Dark Reverie – I love the intro musically. But this whole power ballad thing is not my thing any longer. I know most people have heard this, and I listened when it came out. But the only spot I really like is about the 1:20 mark with the cool guitar lick that goes over everything that is a bit buzzing. That’s a nice effect. The chorus does nothing for me. The keyboards just stand out as unnecessary. I don’t feel like the song goes anywhere. Sorta the same reaction to the last two songs. Even the bridge/solo section just kind exists, it doesn’t heighten the song for me. Not very impressed. The intro and outro clean guitar is the best part of the tune.

Bent – I love the darker riffing to start this tune. Great lead in the intro too. Different, choppy, love La Torre getting angry. The vocal effects are nice too. A little overdone, but then it kicks into a Vindication-like vibe and nice guitar parts. Killer angry note with some edge by La Torre around the 1 minute mark or so. The verses are choppy, not very melodic, and there’s a lot of vocal effects. I’m a bigger fan of the chorus section at the 2 minute mark, much more melodic. Another time change for the bridge. References to “sacred grounds,” almost spit out my coffee. Thank God its not about a woman’s nether regions again. Solo is a harmonized, slower, melodic one. Then it sounds like Parker does a single solo after the harmonized part. Love the end of it, not so much the beginning. They hook up and harmonize at the end. Nice touch. Coming out of the solo, it just sort of meanders. Man, I get being proggy, but stuff never really goes anywhere. Let me guess, aggressive coming up?   Nope…As we all fall down again lyric line. I’m just not finding a lot of good melodies on this album up to this part.  Ending of the song is dramatic. Dig the ending. Again, another one where the intro and ending sound best to me.

Inner Unrest – Catchy guitar riffs to start, mid-tempo, nice lead line, by Wilton to really get things started into La Torre. Another mid-tempo song. Drums sound flat here. Love Wilton’s lead work on this song. Typical Michael, nothing really innovative, but you know him when you hear him. The chorus really just doesn’t hook me. That seems to be a recurring observation. Nice moody bridge. Reminds me of an Iced Earth bridge the way the harmonics are. Solo shifts tempo, really moody, some harmonized parts. Yeah, now its getting heavy. Ok, I really like the solo. Then La Torre trying to channel the old style Tate spoken words that are lower in volume so you have to figure it out. Then back to the chorus. Eh. Love the guitars on this one though.

Launder the Conscience – mid-tempo again to start, then more aggressive in the verses. I like the verses quite a bit here. More effects on La Torre’s vocals. Lead guitar add some great drama. That’s also a recurring theme. The lead guitars really giving the songs some extra drama. Not really a fan of the chorus on this one (“find a solution” is sung weird) until the actual title of the song. La Torre delivers that nicely. Solo is harmonized, mid-tempo, usual stuff, but then picks up in intensity, which I dig, without losing the mood. Shred fest on the fretboard leads out to a moody section that has some recorded television or radio report, which is a nice touch, and then a short bridge to the chorus again. Then another bridge with some…PIANO? WTF? Then an evil sounding full band kicks in that sounds nothing like the first part of the tune, and then piano again. Is this Dream Theater? Gets melodic over the last minute. Majestic, even. Pace kicks back up. Damn it, this whole closing section after the second bridge is the coolest thing so far from them on this record, and the song just ends. WTF! Take that somewhere. THAT should have been the seed of the song. Man.

Portrait – Mid-tempo bass line and drums open, with some light guitar work, and then bass and drums drive the first verse with La Torre vocal, with the guitar piping in slightly for some harmonic drama. Not really a fan of this verse, but the chorus is nice, which starts around 1:02. That kind of sounds like Alice in Chains to my ear, but its clean, and harmonized vocals. This song is another VERY different tune. Doesn’t really sound like classic Queensryche at all. Wait, yes it does. I can’t place it, but the verses, musically, and how the guitars play off the vocal, there’s something there. I just can’t remember what old school QR tune. I like it around the 2:20 mark, again, there’s that chorus part again. That’s a killer section. “When you’re lost and lonely and you’re reaching for it…the sky lost in gray” – something like that. That’s really cool. It kind of reminds me of “Chasing Blue Sky.” Then the solo has this Rush vibe. Not sure if it is Wilton or Lundgren, but whoever it is channels Alex Lifeson a little. REALLY dig that chorus. Totally a Chasing Blue Sky vibe. Second solo comes in, again, REALLY cool. La Torre floats over it “when your lost and lonely” “and you’re reaching for me.” Really nicely done. Kind of like Open Road off the self-titled. The outro plays off that, and tries to add the majesty of an “Anybody Listening.” Doesn’t really reach that high point, but that was what they were going for.

Overall, wow, I’m not sure what I think. This was my first listen, from top to bottom. There are some standout moments for sure. They went proggy with some time and tempo changes, and also tried to spread their wings and really depart (I think) from the classic QR sound – as they should. I applaud them for that. I’m just not sure as a whole, the record will have staying power. Maybe it will. There's a lot of interesting stuff going on. But I'm not sure all the cool parts play together nicely.

Let’s get the obvious out of the way – I think while the record has melodic moments all over it, it doesn’t have a lot of MEMORABLE melodic moments, as in big choruses. The choruses aren’t those anthemic ones like you heard on the self-titled. Or the statement like choruses we remember from classic Queensryche. Musically, its really a mixed bag. Generally, I’d say other than the first two songs, they went mostly mid-tempo on this one, and tried to bring a bit of that moodier feel to the band. It works in some parts (as I said, I REALLY love the chorus musically in Portrait, and the closing section in Launder the Conscience. Man, those are good).

Guitar-wise, again, there are moments. One thing that I’ll bring to the table is, Wilton, as much as I love Mike’s solos, they tend to sound the same a bit, particularly the fast ones. He has his signature way of doing solos, and those really are prominent here and he plays them well. But I like his more moody stuff a bit more. And I think he has some good moments here too, but when it goes moody, I tend to wonder who it is, is it Whip, or is it Parker? It’d be nice to know. But the guitars were good on the record.

Bass – Ed is Ed. One of the best in the game, and severely underrated. I’m not sure I like how his bass is mixed though. I felt he was more prominent, thumpier, on other records. And I love me some Ed Bass bass. His performance is good, but I found myself really having to work hard to hear it with everything else going on. I loved his work on Light Years. Really dug it. But that’s the most memorable bass work on the record that I can remember after one listen.

Ok, so the drums. Well, I don’t care what any of the early reviewers (who are cherry-picked by the band) say, you absolutely can tell its not Rockenfield. La Torre does an admirable job, but he’s no Scott Rockenfield, and the drums are very understated in the mix. You can tell parts he tries to emulate Scott, and borrows some fills, but he has a much different groove. Honestly, I think without Scott, they should have just let Casey do the drums. If you're going to go different, just go different. La Torre served the song, but you can tell there is something different. And I’ll get back to that in a moment.

Vocally, the record is fine. I think La Torre is expanding a bit, trying new ways to deliver. He hits a few high notes, but for the most part, he’s trying different things, not as high, more eclectic ways of presenting himself, using vocal effects (like Tate did here and there). I think he sounds more like himself on this record for sure. His imprint is all over it, including the direction they took.

Ok, so that direction. Let’s just say it, other than Wilton’s guitars, the threads connecting this to classic Queensryche are getting thinner and thinner. That’s obvious, given the lineup changes. And with Scott Rockenfield gone, the whole rhythm style of the band is different. It just is, no matter how hard La Torre worked to channel Scott at times. That can be positive or negative. I think of it as a positive for those of the opinion this is a different band anyway. They are becoming La Torre’s band. His touch, both with the vocals and now drums, have really steered Queensryche into a direction very much away from what we all remember. There are moments for sure, like Man the Machine, that call back, but for the most part, the band is forging its identity, and they should be proud of that.

But if you’re evaluating them and saying “Queensryche needs to be in the same styles we heard from 1983-1990), you’re going to be disappointed. That isn’t them any longer, at least not on The Verdict, with some exceptions. The DeGarmo vibe, which I consider to be the big choruses, melodic touch, and majestic playing are really gone. And the feel Rockenfield had. That Rush-inspired groove…very much gone. And while La Torre has some Tate-like moments, they are less and less. So if you’re evaluating this in comparison to Queensryche’s prime, you’re going to be in for a disappointment. However, if you liked the direction they took on Condition Human, say a mix of Eye 9, Hellfire, Just Us, and Guardian, and want them to continue that and go different places from there, you’ll like it quite a bit.

Overall, I think The Verdict is very choppy. They have a lot going on, with a lot of tempo and time changes, and while that is cool, its kind of jarring, at least on first listen. But because there is so much going on, it will require multiple listens. But I can’t shake the feeling that some songs had some great ideas embedded in them that would have been cooler had they been lifted and worked on as their own tunes, instead of trying to slap cool parts together to make a “proggy” album. That's subjective, and obviously based on personal taste, of course.

Anyway, there you have it. Some off-the-cuff reactions to my first listen to the record.

My top tracks, just on one listen: Light Years, Man the Machine. Those two, and Portrait stood out.

p.s. for those that care about this, the album is shorter. 10 songs, 45 minutes. Doesn't bother me, but I know some people have issue with that. I think it is fine.

I will say, on second listen, the album is coming together for me more. I like it better. Again, so much going on (for Queensryche) it takes a bit. I'm digging some songs more than I did. Inner Unrest, Launder the Conscience.

Update - OK, so through listen #3. Yeah, it is growing on me for sure. There are still some strange moments, but I am liking things better on subsequent listens. I think my main gripe for this record is going to be that the shifts in tempo and time signatures don't always feel smooth. Like they were forced. Sometimes its just abrupt. That, and I just don't get that bigger chorus vibe. But I can see what a lot of it would appeal to progressive metal fans. They made it a point to go that route.

I'm not really a fan of the current Queensryche these days, but you have to applaud them by trying something different. Whether it works for you is obviously personal. It works in spurts for me. Congrats to them, and here's hoping people dig it.

« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 11:32:54 AM by Samsara »
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3597 on: February 28, 2019, 01:13:05 PM »
Thanks for the detailed review Brian! I was hoping the new album would shift away from the more mid tempo sound and into a more heavier direction. Sounds like it has it’s heavier moments but stays in the mid tempo mode for the majority. Interested in hearing it tommorow

Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3598 on: February 28, 2019, 01:19:16 PM »
Thanks for the detailed review Brian! I was hoping the new album would shift away from the more mid tempo sound and into a more heavier direction. Sounds like it has it’s heavier moments but stays in the mid tempo mode for the majority. Interested in hearing it tommorow

It has those aggressive moments, but not for full songs. Just passages. Its heavy without a doubt, its just not always aggressive, if that makes sense. A lot of the songs switch tempos throughout.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3599 on: February 28, 2019, 08:09:12 PM »
Mine arrives tomorrow.

Is there any of the "weirdness" factor?   Seems like EJ tried to capture a bit of that on Eye9 (one of my main reasons for loving it so much).   I always had an affinity for their "I think I might be going mad" side.   I guess "eerie" might be another way of putting it?   
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Offline Dittomist

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3600 on: March 01, 2019, 12:42:05 AM »
I still have a few songs to go on my first listen, but man oh man, this album rocks!  I was very impressed with QR '13 and Condition Human, but The Verdict is on a whole different level. Fans of Promised Land are going to find a lot of material to enjoy. And I haven't even heard Portrait yet, which seems to be an early fan favorite.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 12:54:57 AM by Dittomist »

Offline Dittomist

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3601 on: March 01, 2019, 12:54:30 AM »
Mine arrives tomorrow.

Is there any of the "weirdness" factor?   Seems like EJ tried to capture a bit of that on Eye9 (one of my main reasons for loving it so much).   I always had an affinity for their "I think I might be going mad" side.   I guess "eerie" might be another way of putting it?

Yes, there is most definitely a weird and eerie vibe to this album!  :hat

Offline devieira73

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3602 on: March 01, 2019, 05:51:46 AM »
The Verdict: very good impression on first/second listen! Like Samsara wrote, it struck me that the striking choruses are practically nonexistent, however, there's several very good instrumental passages and good melodies in all the songs. The songs are short, but with a lot of variation. Excellent guitar work in all the songs. Good drumming on the album, similar to what Scott would do, but it's noticeable  the difference, since Scott's drumming has a lot of personality and quality.

It does stray a bit more from the original QR sound, but still with a lot of influences, but with a more prog metal twist. Todd continues to remind me a lot more of Ray Alder between Perfect Simmetry/Parallels than Geoff Tate. Great performances in all the album.

Early favorites: Blood of the Levant, Light-Years (guitar riff from the intro reminds me DT-Home. Very cool bass lines in the middle of the song), Bent, Lauder the Consicience (what a beautiful orchestration in the end!) and Portrait (This one has that somewhat strange atmosphere, very much in the style of a great QR album closer).
« Last Edit: March 01, 2019, 06:04:37 AM by devieira73 »
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Offline Bertielee

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3603 on: March 01, 2019, 07:31:48 AM »
Thanks for the review, Samsara.

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Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album
« Reply #3604 on: March 01, 2019, 07:43:11 AM »
Thanks for the review, Samsara.

B.Lee

Welcome!

Mine arrives tomorrow.

Is there any of the "weirdness" factor?   Seems like EJ tried to capture a bit of that on Eye9 (one of my main reasons for loving it so much).   I always had an affinity for their "I think I might be going mad" side.   I guess "eerie" might be another way of putting it?   

Morning. Yep, as a couple of people responded, it does. There are a couple of weird parts for sure. The album is good. And the comment about PL by Dittomist, not really sure I agree. I mean, it is in the sense there is some atmosphere in songs. But that whole vibe of PL, that desperation-like feeling that it had, no, The Verdict doesn't match that IMO.

But the band should be proud of themselves. They really departed from the classic QR sound except for Wilton's lead style, and a couple of tunes. And those that were waiting for them to be more proggy, well this is it. They've made "Queensryche" come out from the shadow of DeGarmo. It's not my personal cup of tea, because what made QR distinct and memorable to me is really gone (except for Wilton's tone and style). But for others that wanted a proggy metal band that has its own unique sound, well, this is it.

And whoever said that La Torre sounds more like No Exit/Perfect Symmetry era Ray Alder hit the nail on the head. I felt that with Condition Human, and for sure this time.
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