Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album

[ytserush]

Warning was still mind blowing to me. I actually got a detention in high school because I brought a Kerrang with me to religion class, and I was literally reading the review to Warning when my teacher busted me. 

Nice.

I didn't know about Kerrang until probably a year later. If I had, I'm sure I'd have gotten into Marillion earlier than I did.

[Setzer]

2019...35th anniversary of The Warning's release. I beat the drum (for the 156th time I'm sure) on the album needing an overhaul, and why. Check it (or any of my other QR-related blogs) out if you're so inclined here - http://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html

Earlier today I read an old article, claiming the band weren't happy with the initial mix, and wanted it re-mixed.

Care to share it? I will modify the blog and the site's chapter on the record to state what the band may have said if you have a link to it.

3rd and 2nd to last paragraph mentions it.
Direct link here: https://facebook.com/rycheitems/photos/a.192348560952847/993400614180967/?type=3&permPage=1


There is still the possibility of EMI taking control of the thing, after the band had finished it again.

[TAC]

Warning was still mind blowing to me. I actually got a detention in high school because I brought a Kerrang with me to religion class, and I was literally reading the review to Warning when my teacher busted me. 

At your advanced age, I am surprised you remember so clearly, TAC. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Hah!

Yup, so old I remember when Queensryche was good!

I also vividly remember the first time I heard Queen Of The Reich. So amazing!

[Samsara]

2019...35th anniversary of The Warning's release. I beat the drum (for the 156th time I'm sure) on the album needing an overhaul, and why. Check it (or any of my other QR-related blogs) out if you're so inclined here - http://www.anybodylistening.net/scream.html

Earlier today I read an old article, claiming the band weren't happy with the initial mix, and wanted it re-mixed.

Care to share it? I will modify the blog and the site's chapter on the record to state what the band may have said if you have a link to it.

3rd and 2nd to last paragraph mentions it.
Direct link here: https://facebook.com/rycheitems/photos/a.192348560952847/993400614180967/?type=3&permPage=1


There is still the possibility of EMI taking control of the thing, after the band had finished it again.

Setzer, thanks! i'll modify stuff tomorrow. Appreciate it.

Edit - added the following to the blog and the chapter on The Warning on the site (it also links to the article):

Editor's Note: An old article from The Warning time period suggests that it was the band, not the label, who made the decision to have the album remixed before it was released. I find that to be unlikely, despite Tate's commentary acknowledging the matter in the article. Consider that The Warning was the band's first album with EMI, they were over budget on the project, and they worked with a legendary producer in Guthrie. In addition, the article never mentions the revised track order of the album, which was, allegedly, done by the label. So, while the band certainly could have requested the remix themselves, I think its more likely that it was label-driven, and Queensryche were told by EMI not to "rock the boat" in the press if asked about the issue.

I think that's a fair assessment of the issue, and illustrates what I personally think is more likely and why. But who knows what the truth is, all these years later. We all know the revisionist history that spewed forth concerning Mindcrime and how "a sequel was always planned." (Which was debunked to be completely false, and a narrative started to promote Mindcrime II.) I highly doubt we'll ever really know the truth regarding The Warning and its mix.

Thanks again for pointing out the article Setzer. Glad to see something about it out there.

[Cool Chris]

Warning was still mind blowing to me. I actually got a detention in high school because I brought a Kerrang with me to religion class...

Who was your teacher, John the Baptist?

[Mebert78]

LaTorre played drums on the new album: http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-confirms-singer-todd-la-torre-played-drums-on-new-album-the-verdict/

[bosk1]

Still not confirmed by the band though.  BM is relying on the same information we have had forever.

[King Postwhore]

Warning was still mind blowing to me. I actually got a detention in high school because I brought a Kerrang with me to religion class, and I was literally reading the review to Warning when my teacher busted me. 

At your advanced age, I am surprised you remember so clearly, TAC. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Hah!

Yup, so old I remember when Queensryche was good!

I also vividly remember the first time I heard Queen Of The Reich. So amazing!

Seeing them open for Kiss on the Animalize tour sold me on them.  I bought The Warning the next day on album and cassette.

[T-ski]

Still not confirmed by the band though.  BM is relying on the same information we have had forever.

QR's Facebook page posted the link, so I guess in a way they have confirmed it.

[Samsara]

Be interesting to see where QR goes from here. It is clear that Rockenfield is not with them any longer. But my guess is, either they are in the midst of the legal wranglings to separate them and Scott, OR, they simply don't want to go through that, and are trying to just let it be what it is and avoid any further drama. Besides, they'd have to pay him his ownership share, which, if even if less significant than Tate, is still likely quite a big sum for a band QR's size these days. The band has said (I think La Torre) a few times publicly that it was La Torre on drums, but have not been definitive about Scott's status in the band. I'm not privy to their ownership structure these days, other than that after the split it was Scott-Ed-Whip, but my guess is, they'll just let it be what it is, paying Scott whatever the principals are entitled to after expenses.

Seems to me, with many bands now, BRAND trumps "band" every time, so I see them carrying on as "Queensryche," despite now only sporting two original members (only one of whom was a significant contributor to songwriting over the years). But without Chris, Geoff, and now Scott, its watered down quite a bit. But then again, other bands have done it well, so maybe this version of Queensryche will too.

[Setzer]

LaTorre played drums on the new album: http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/queensryche-confirms-singer-todd-la-torre-played-drums-on-new-album-the-verdict/

Still not confirmed by the band though.  BM is relying on the same information we have had forever.

It was confirmed by the band ~2 months ago: https://twitter.com/queensryche/status/1067649883044114432

[jammindude]

Be interesting to see where QR goes from here. It is clear that Rockenfield is not with them any longer. But my guess is, either they are in the midst of the legal wranglings to separate them and Scott, OR, they simply don't want to go through that, and are trying to just let it be what it is and avoid any further drama. Besides, they'd have to pay him his ownership share, which, if even if less significant than Tate, is still likely quite a big sum for a band QR's size these days. The band has said (I think La Torre) a few times publicly that it was La Torre on drums, but have not been definitive about Scott's status in the band. I'm not privy to their ownership structure these days, other than that after the split it was Scott-Ed-Whip, but my guess is, they'll just let it be what it is, paying Scott whatever the principals are entitled to after expenses.

Seems to me, with many bands now, BRAND trumps "band" every time, so I see them carrying on as "Queensryche," despite now only sporting two original members (only one of whom was a significant contributor to songwriting over the years). But without Chris, Geoff, and now Scott, its watered down quite a bit. But then again, other bands have done it well, so maybe this version of Queensryche will too.

You are technically correct about the songwriting core.....but it’s worth mentioning that EJ was the primary writer for one of the best (and most QR sounding) tracks from CH.

[TAC]

I must say that when I heard QR released a second new song, I struggled with finding enough energy to even sample it.
Well, this morning I finally got around to checking out Dark Reverie, and I must say, I was pleasantly surprised.
The track is quite solid. As is TLT's drumming.

[Kwyjibo]

Despite everything that's going on I'm actually excited and eagerly awaiting the new record. The last two were really good (imo) and if they continue in that vein I'm happy.

[MoraWintersoul]

From the QR page in the comments of their repost of the Blabbermouth post (lol this is a mouthful): "We can’t say anything further until Scott gives us a statement, it’s in his court not ours. He's been radio silent and won’t give us a statement, so there is nothing further we can say or tell anyone."

Sorry to resurrect marriage analogies on this forum, but if my boyfriend says he needs a break and then doesn't respond to my messages for two months, I wouldn't say "yeah I'm not sure what's going on with my boyfriend and won't be until he returns my calls", I would say "yeah that bastard dumped me" 

[Samsara]

Be interesting to see where QR goes from here. It is clear that Rockenfield is not with them any longer. But my guess is, either they are in the midst of the legal wranglings to separate them and Scott, OR, they simply don't want to go through that, and are trying to just let it be what it is and avoid any further drama. Besides, they'd have to pay him his ownership share, which, if even if less significant than Tate, is still likely quite a big sum for a band QR's size these days. The band has said (I think La Torre) a few times publicly that it was La Torre on drums, but have not been definitive about Scott's status in the band. I'm not privy to their ownership structure these days, other than that after the split it was Scott-Ed-Whip, but my guess is, they'll just let it be what it is, paying Scott whatever the principals are entitled to after expenses.

Seems to me, with many bands now, BRAND trumps "band" every time, so I see them carrying on as "Queensryche," despite now only sporting two original members (only one of whom was a significant contributor to songwriting over the years). But without Chris, Geoff, and now Scott, its watered down quite a bit. But then again, other bands have done it well, so maybe this version of Queensryche will too.

You are technically correct about the songwriting core.....but it’s worth mentioning that EJ was the primary writer for one of the best (and most QR sounding) tracks from CH.

I love Ed, I think pretty highly of his songwriting and his playing. He's also probably the nicest dude in that band. Not probably, he IS. But while I agree with your comment, it really has nothing to do with the comparison I was making. Eddie was never a big part of the songwriting of the original/classic lineup of Queensryche. Those songs came basically from three guys, which established what Queensryche was all about.

From the QR page in the comments of their repost of the Blabbermouth post (lol this is a mouthful): "We can’t say anything further until Scott gives us a statement, it’s in his court not ours. He's been radio silent and won’t give us a statement, so there is nothing further we can say or tell anyone."

Sorry to resurrect marriage analogies on this forum, but if my boyfriend says he needs a break and then doesn't respond to my messages for two months, I wouldn't say "yeah I'm not sure what's going on with my boyfriend and won't be until he returns my calls", I would say "yeah that bastard dumped me" 

 

[Phoenix87x]

Yeah, at this point I have pretty much checked out. The two new songs didn't knock my socks off and with scott pretty much gone, I just don't care too much anymore.

[Samsara]

Just read on QR's facebook that "Dark Reverie" was written both musically and lyrically by Parker Lundgren. Regardless of our opinions on the song itself, it's pretty cool that they have continually been giving him more and more opportunity to write. Hopefully he can eventually parlay that into a bigger opportunity with another band down the road when his stint with Queensryche is over, or when the band comes to an end.

[TAC]

Just read on QR's facebook that "Dark Reverie" was written both musically and lyrically by Parker Lundgren. Regardless of our opinions on the song itself, it's pretty cool that they have continually been giving him more and more opportunity to write. Hopefully he can eventually parlay that into a bigger opportunity with another band down the road when his stint with Queensryche is over, or when the band comes to an end.

What I like about it is just let them become their own band and forge their own identity. Probably too late for that, but at least it's something that I can respect.

[jammindude]

@Samsara 

I wasn't trying to counter your point as much as I was trying to offer something hopeful.   That there is an original member in QR that still knows how to write something that sounds like QR.   (Not even sure Wilton is capable of that anymore.  He seems more intent on making QR a straight up power metal band without any of the weirdness and "off kilter" mood that made QR special.  Jackson seems to have at least captured that spirit for one song.)

[Samsara]

@Samsara 

I wasn't trying to counter your point as much as I was trying to offer something hopeful.   That there is an original member in QR that still knows how to write something that sounds like QR.   (Not even sure Wilton is capable of that anymore.  He seems more intent on making QR a straight up power metal band without any of the weirdness and "off kilter" mood that made QR special.  Jackson seems to have at least captured that spirit for one song.)

 

You're referring to "Eye9," right? I agree. That song really had a cool vibe to it. The funny thing about Ed is that there were two guys that offered a comment about Ed''s writing to me in the past. Kelly Gray and Jason Slater.

Kelly said a lot of stuff that Ed submitted 20 years ago had more of a "punk" vibe to it and was unused. He was referring to "Monologue," a tune Ed wrote in the Q2k sessions that only exists as a demo and as far as I know, has never leaked. I tended to believe him at the time (this was 2001 when I spoke to Kelly about it), because I sorta got that vibe from "Anytime/Anywhere" on HITNF, which Eddie wrote the music to.

Jason Slater told me in the mid-2000s that a few of Ed's demos all sorta had this "Every Rose Has Its Thorn" vibe to them, and didn't feel very "Queensryche." He let me listen to one of them, and yeah, it totally did. I don't remember the name of the demo, but it was Ed singing (who had a really good singing voice, just some pitch issues once in awhile), and yeah, it totally reminded me of Brett Michaels crooning Every Rose. LOL.

Since then, however, on D2C, and the two TLT-era QR recordings, I think Ed's writing has evolved quite a bit and I enjoy it. Lyrics aside, I really like the music to "Hot Spot Junkie" which I believe is an Ed tune. A little different, but cool. And his stuff of the TLT-era stuff has been great. I believe he wrote Spore, and of course Eye9, and had his hand in a lot of the tunes that I dig from those two records.

[devieira73]

I don't how much of these songs are actually written by Ed, but his name is in the credits as a co-writer and they are all very good IMO: another rainy night (empire), promised land, rythm of hope (tribe), hit the black/anytime_anywhere (hear in the now frontier), spore/in this light (S/T) and arrow of time/bulletproof (condition human).

[Samsara]

I don't how much of these songs are actually written by Ed, but his name is in the credits as a co-writer and they are all very good IMO: another rainy night (empire), promised land, rythm of hope (tribe), hit the black/anytime_anywhere (hear in the now frontier), spore/in this light (S/T) and arrow of time/bulletproof (condition human).

Another Rainy Night was Ed's riff, Chris' arrangement, Tate's lyrics.

Promised Land was a band effort. Not really sure what his contributions to it were.

Rhythm of Hope was mostly Rockenfield, but I am sure Ed probably was involved with an arrangement or added something guitar-wise that helped drive it.

Hit the Black - I forget this one, but I'm thinking it was similar to Another Rainy Night - Ed's main riff, Chris' arrangement.

Anytime/Anywhere - I mentioned above. His song, musically.

As for the La Torre-era stuff, I'm not sure on the COndition Human stuff. But as far as the self-titled, In This Light was Ed's song. Most of that is him, if I remember right. And Spore...I am pretty sure that was mostly an Ed/La Torre thing. I don't remember exactly who else contributed.

I was lucky enough to hear Spore before lyrics/vocals were added in early 2014. It was pretty bad ass, and I remember asking who wrote it, and Todd pointed to Ed. Who did his usual joke and laughed.

Ed's a talented dude. He's also done some writing outside of Queensryche. If you look up his name on bmi (I forget if it is bmi or ascap), he has a host of songs with other artists. He just doesn't promote himself the way a lot of people do.

[devieira73]

Really cool to know all of that, thanks!

[jammindude]

For the record...I was specifically thinking of Eye9.    That song in particular impressed me because it was the only song from the TLT era to capture the "feel" of QR and not just the sounds.     I could honestly picture the classic lineup doing that song.   

I'm really hoping the new album captures more of that feel with the deeper cuts.  Because nothing I've heard so far has done it.   The songs are good, but nothing has "wowed" me yet.

[?]

Ed's a talented dude. He's also done some writing outside of Queensryche. If you look up his name on bmi (I forget if it is bmi or ascap), he has a host of songs with other artists. He just doesn't promote himself the way a lot of people do.

I did this, and besides all the stuff he's co-written for others, I actually managed to find the credits to all the songs on The Verdict, except for Blood of the Levant and Man the Machine. However, Blood of the Levant is in the ASCAP database, and while Man the Machine couldn't be found in either of them, there's a song titled Broken credited to Jackson, La Torre and Wilton, so I presume that was the working title, given that the word is repeated in the lyrics of that song. Maybe they'd forgotten there already was a Broken on D2C, but I can't blame them

Anyway, assuming Broken is Man the Machine, these are the credits:

Blood of the Levant (Jackson/La Torre/Wilton)
Man the Machine (Jackson/La Torre/Wilton)
Light Years (Jackson)
Inside Out (La Torre/Wilton)
Propaganda Fashion (Jackson)
Dark Reverie (Lundgren)
Bent (Jackson/La Torre/Lundgren)
Inner Unrest (La Torre/Wilton)
Launder the Conscience (La Torre/Lundgren/Wilton)
Portrait (Jackson/La Torre)

In essence, this album seems to be less heavy on Wilton's stuff, while Jackson has stepped up a bit.

[Samsara]

Cool deal, thanks for doing that.

Yup, it looks like generally what I expected. The Wilton credits for the first two songs  and Launder the Conscience are likely minor arrangement changes. If memory serves, I remember asking what Michael's input to Open Road and Where Dreams Go to Die was on the self-titled (back when it came out), and was told that Michael made some minor arrangement tweaks, and took a writing credit because of it. I assume that was likely the same for Blood of the Levant and Man the Machine and Launder.

On Open Road, Wilton did something like add a solo section, and take the La Torre solo he wrote and expanded it and put it on the end, or something to that effect. And on Where Dreams Go to Die, it was more of that same kind of cut, paste, expand of a section or two. A bit fuzzy on it, but it was something in that ballpark.

My guess is, based on those credits, Inside Out and Inner Unrest are probably fast songs, like Don't Look Back, The Needle LIes, etc., more up-tempo metal. Just seems to be what Michael does and does well.

[MirrorMask]

However, Blood of the Levant is in the ASCAP database, and while Man the Machine couldn't be found in either of them, there's a song titled Broken credited to Jackson, La Torre and Wilton, so I presume that was the working title, given that the word is repeated in the lyrics of that song. Maybe they'd forgotten there already was a Broken on D2C, but I can't blame them

If that's the case, it's hilarious 

*guys jam song*
*guys write song*
Lyricist: "Ok guys, here are the lyrics, I'll call the song Broken"
The other ones: "Ok, cool"

(Some time later....)

Someone at the label: "Hey guys, I'm not trying to tell you how to write your albums, but... wasn't there already a song called Broken on Dedicated to Chaos?"
QR, checking it online: "..........oh sssssshit  "

 

[bosk1]

I'm not sure why that would be "hilarious."  I would imagine that similar things actually happen pretty frequently.  And song titles change for LOTS of different reasons throughout the writing process.  Remember "The Shaman's Trance" being changed to "Bridges in the Sky" at almost-literally the 11th hour? 

But going back to the posts prior to that, that's some really good information and detective work on the writing credits.    But as Samsara kind of eluded to, unless you really have in-depth insider knowledge, it's still hard to interpret that and know what "writing" really means for any given song.  Was a guy the primary writer who either brought the main riffs and chord progressions to the table, or was the major driving force for arranging the song?  Or did he merely rearrange a thing here or there, or come up with a small section?  I love those little nitty-gritty details.  But for most songs, we just don't know.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Random thought: What if the current members re-wrote some of the songs on DTC to be actually good?

[bosk1]

[Bertielee]

QR has been under my radar for a very long time now, but I actually like Dark Reverie a lot.

B.Lee

[wolfking]

I haven't checked out the second song released from the new album yet and really, am in no rush to.  That's a shame.

[TAC]

I haven't checked out the second song released from the new album yet and really, am in no rush to.  That's a shame.

Kade, this was me.

I must say that when I heard QR released a second new song, I struggled with finding enough energy to even sample it.
Well, this morning I finally got around to checking out Dark Reverie, and I must say, I was pleasantly surprised.
The track is quite solid. As is TLT's drumming.

Go for it.

[wolfking]

Alright, I'll do it.