Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album

[Mladen]

This is as ridiculous as the whole mess that Yes went through last year.

[Grappler]

There's also a rumor in some groups that the guys all have day jobs and that the band is on the verge of folding up.  Who knows if that is true or not, but they apparently are down to just one road-crew member and some of the band members themselves are now setting up their own gear at shows, likely to cut costs for these fly-in gigs.

If you're not going to slog it out on the road (5 shows in a row, day off, etc.) for a month or two at a time, touring income is eventually going to dry up, and you'll start booking gigs at theme and water parks, like the band is doing now.

[jingle.boy]

All of this is just sad.  I really hoped kicking out Tater and the new energy with La Torre would kick-start them back in to some kind of limelight.  Sadly, not the case... which is too bad, because QR and Condition Human are two really good albums.

[Nick]

Man, if Scott would end up touring with Geoff... what a shit show. I thought this saga couldn't get any weirder or worse, but I might officially wash my hands of all things Queensryche and Geoff Tate depending on how that would shake out.

[The Walrus]

Wow. Just when you think it can't get wilder...

[T-ski]

more evidence Chris was the smart one.

[romdrums]

more evidence Chris was the smart one.

Right?  I'd rather fly planes and hang out with my family as well, if my other option was to continue working with the personalities in this band. 

[Setzer]

Sounds like a big bag of baloney if you ask me.
April 1st is early this year

[Samsara]

Sounds like a big bag of baloney if you ask me.
April 1st is early this year

 

It isn't, but I totally see why some such as yourself may think so. But I will say this, if there is one constant in Queensryche's history, particularly over the last 20 years, it is that they follow the money. Particularly Scott. So I believe it.

What a shit show. 

[Samsara]

There's also a rumor in some groups that the guys all have day jobs and that the band is on the verge of folding up.  Who knows if that is true or not, but they apparently are down to just one road-crew member and some of the band members themselves are now setting up their own gear at shows, likely to cut costs for these fly-in gigs.

If you're not going to slog it out on the road (5 shows in a row, day off, etc.) for a month or two at a time, touring income is eventually going to dry up, and you'll start booking gigs at theme and water parks, like the band is doing now.

Wouldn't doubt it. I heard they shit-canned their long time crew member (whose last position was tour manager) in December. literally told him before Christmas "see you in January," and then called him up a week later and fired him. After like 13 or 14 years of working for them.

It's all crumbling around them, which is, ironically, what certain people have said would happen all along if they made certain decisions. 

[abydos]

Which decisions?

[Kwyjibo]

I still find it hard to believe that a Tateryche with Scott would make more money, especially for Scott, than a Queensryche with TLT and a new record followed by a new tour.

Not that the TLT fronted QR will make huge amounts of cash, those days are gone forever.

And I'm also not sure that a reunited QR will make tons of cash and even less so if they are forced to reunite because of Scott's actions and not because of a mutual agreement.

[Samsara]

I still find it hard to believe that a Tateryche with Scott would make more money, especially for Scott, than a Queensryche with TLT and a new record followed by a new tour.

Remember, current Queensryche cannot perform Operation: Mindcrime in its entirety. Geoff can. If you reunite Geoff and Scott, and bill it as Queensryche, and go out and perform Mindcrime (again, ugh), promoters will pay them more than current QR who as Grappler said, are playing theme parks. And the more original members, the more those guarantees will go up.

And I'm also not sure that a reunited QR will make tons of cash and even less so if they are forced to reunite because of Scott's actions and not because of a mutual agreement.

TONS of cash? No, those days are gone. But decent cash, for sure. I mean, I am not personally interested unless it was the full original five, but I guarantee you a lineup of Tate/Wilton/Jackson/Rockenfield...and say Mike Stone or Kelly Gray (yes, seriously) and a new album and tour celebrating Mindcrime will make a lot more than the current Queensryche.

Which decisions?

 

How much time you got? Seriously though, decisions regarding how the current Queensryche handled its business. They made a grave mistake in choosing to do fly-in dates and wrapping their arms around hair metal and casino gigs. I remember back in summer 2012, they had a choice. They could go slug it out on the road, in a bus, like the old days of being a metal band, or they could do the casino/fly-in route. The former would pay less at first, but establish them better, the latter would pay more, but they'd pigeon hole themselves.

Well...

And then there was that whole mistake of never playing enough new material, and playing the same setlist over and over (ironically, the board of trolls that stalks me around the Internet now complain about the same thing they used to rag on me about doing, bunch of jackasses, ha ha ha ha), has firmly thrown them in the nostalgia circuit. Dumb. Had they done as was suggested by more than a few people, and played 90-minute sets, with 18 songs, and devoted at least a third of every set to material from the TLT era and spotlighted it, they could have really made their new music a presence, instead of an afterthought, like it has now become.

I could go on, but why? 

[goo-goo]

Not sure I want to believe the Scott and Tate rumors of working together again. The pledge campaign still has Scott on the main picture.

Scott has worked in movie and TV scores. That's where I believe there might be some truth in that he doesn't want to tour anymore as well as being present with his newborn son. He could have just tracked the drums in the studio and Casey would handle the live playing. Hopefully some light is shed to this QR drama.

I do agree with Samsara's business opinion on how they (imo) erred and decided to stick to the casino touring cycle. They should have built the QR brand up again from scratch with TLT.

I guess we will find out during the next few months on QR's future.

Anyways, has anyone pre-ordered the album?

[Nick]

There's also a rumor in some groups that the guys all have day jobs and that the band is on the verge of folding up.  Who knows if that is true or not, but they apparently are down to just one road-crew member and some of the band members themselves are now setting up their own gear at shows, likely to cut costs for these fly-in gigs.

If you're not going to slog it out on the road (5 shows in a row, day off, etc.) for a month or two at a time, touring income is eventually going to dry up, and you'll start booking gigs at theme and water parks, like the band is doing now.

Wouldn't doubt it. I heard they shit-canned their long time crew member (whose last position was tour manager) in December. literally told him before Christmas "see you in January," and then called him up a week later and fired him. After like 13 or 14 years of working for them.

It's all crumbling around them, which is, ironically, what certain people have said would happen all along if they made certain decisions. 

Was that Bender by chance? Got to hang out with him after a show in Allentown on the DtC tour, really nice guy.

[Cruithne]

All of this is just sad.  I really hoped kicking out Tater and the new energy with La Torre would kick-start them back in to some kind of limelight.  Sadly, not the case... which is too bad, because QR and Condition Human are two really good albums.

Sadly, I think it might've been too little too late, regardless of how they chose to do business after binning the Tates and hiring TLT.

I rather suspect the Tates had already driven the QR bus off the cliff and it was likely only ever going to be a case of how slowly they could manage to float their way down to retirement. Speculation as to which thermals they might've ridden along the way is only that.

[Samsara]

Was that Bender by chance? Got to hang out with him after a show in Allentown on the DtC tour, really nice guy.

Not sure if Bender still works for them (and yes, he is a dynamite guy). But no, that wasn't who I was referring to.

[Grappler]

All of this is just sad.  I really hoped kicking out Tater and the new energy with La Torre would kick-start them back in to some kind of limelight.  Sadly, not the case... which is too bad, because QR and Condition Human are two really good albums.

Sadly, I think it might've been too little too late, regardless of how they chose to do business after binning the Tates and hiring TLT.

I rather suspect the Tates had already driven the QR bus off the cliff and it was likely only ever going to be a case of how slowly they could manage to float their way down to retirement. Speculation as to which thermals they might've ridden along the way is only that.

It wasn't too late, but it would have required a complete commitment to busting their ass and working hard.  Anthrax was riding high after WCFYA came out.  Then came the Dan Nelson era, and Jon Bush saying no to returning.  They just got a lineup together with Joey and started touring.  They opened for so many bands, whether it was the Big 4 or a Testament/Slayer/Megadeth club or theater tour.  It took years, but they're finally headlining their own tours again, after their last two releases.

Iced Earth has done the same.  Barlow quits, Stu Block enters, and the band became road dogs.  They wore themselves out on the road over a period of 3 years, but it seems to be paying off.  Stu has played more shows with the band than all of the band's prior 4 singers combined.

Sabaton has opened for bands like Iced Earth, Nightwish, Amon Amarth, and Accept in the US - all very different types of metal, with varied fanbases.  They are now headlining their own tour with a full production and stage show after 5 or so years of being an opening act.

QR could have done the same - try to get on as many tours as possible, open for lots of different types of bands.  Show a commitment to the fact that they are firmly a metal band again.  They signed to Century Media, home of Iced Earth, Lacuna Coil, and Arch Enemy.  Get in front of some power metal fans, get in front of some death metal fans, or some thrash fans.  Co-headline with Symphony X and Fates Warning, take out Tesseract, do a special show for ProgPower USA - show some commitment to the prog metal genre, of which they do belong to.  Show the world that you are METAL again.

For all of Wilton's talk of "rebuilding the brand," all they did was get in front of their own hair-metal fans, since casinos and state fairs would pay their full guarantee, rather than taking a reduced fee and making up for it with a longer tour.  They chose money over time.  Sure, they played to bigger crowds and got some exposure with Todd, but those fans only want to hear Empire and Jet City Woman, and are satisfied with hearing the same songs over and over again.  Maybe they made some money at first, but it truly hurt their image.  They had a chance to really change how they looked to the general public (a one-hit, hair-band wonder), but didn't.

[devieira73]

Anyways, has anyone pre-ordered the album?

I pre-ordered Condition Human on the PledgeMusic, I think like one year before the album was released and, as a "cool bonus to the faithfull fan", my CD didn’t have the regular european bonus track, much less the another 2 others tracks released on vinyl. I paid more, ahead of time and received less...I’ll pass this time.

[Samsara]

And just to clarify, since it has gone on a couple of pages now. The only thing I was told was that Rockenfield has joined forces with Tate. Whether you believe that or not is obviously up to you (I happen to). But any of the fallout from that we've been discussing is entirely speculative.

[The Walrus]

And just to clarify, since it has gone on a couple of pages now. The only thing I was told was that Rockenfield has joined forces with Tate. Whether you believe that or not is obviously up to you (I happen to). But any of the fallout from that we've been discussing is entirely speculative.

As someone who's currently digging through the rest of the hilariously bizarre history of this band, shhhh. There's not enough for this!

[Samsara]

And just to clarify, since it has gone on a couple of pages now. The only thing I was told was that Rockenfield has joined forces with Tate. Whether you believe that or not is obviously up to you (I happen to). But any of the fallout from that we've been discussing is entirely speculative.

As someone who's currently digging through the rest of the hilariously bizarre history of this band, shhhh. There's not enough for this!

As a friend of mine just texted me "at least this shit is better than daytime TV." 

[Mladen]

How much time you got? Seriously though, decisions regarding how the current Queensryche handled its business. They made a grave mistake in choosing to do fly-in dates and wrapping their arms around hair metal and casino gigs. I remember back in summer 2012, they had a choice. They could go slug it out on the road, in a bus, like the old days of being a metal band, or they could do the casino/fly-in route. The former would pay less at first, but establish them better, the latter would pay more, but they'd pigeon hole themselves.

Well...

And then there was that whole mistake of never playing enough new material, and playing the same setlist over and over (ironically, the board of trolls that stalks me around the Internet now complain about the same thing they used to rag on me about doing, bunch of jackasses, ha ha ha ha), has firmly thrown them in the nostalgia circuit. Dumb. Had they done as was suggested by more than a few people, and played 90-minute sets, with 18 songs, and devoted at least a third of every set to material from the TLT era and spotlighted it, they could have really made their new music a presence, instead of an afterthought, like it has now become.

I was trying to figure out what exactly went wrong with the new incarnation of Queensryche, because it seemed like the sun was shining bright about three or four years ago. But this might be the background I was wondering about. It's such a shame they couldn't or didn't want to capitalize on their new-found reputation by touring more frequently, puting a spotlight on their new songs when performing live and shaking things up with the set list regarding older material. I'm only not sure if they tried to do it but it didn't work out or they didn't even go for it. Either way, I find the development very sad.

[njfirefighter]

So to humor this situation, from my point of view on this speculation of Scott Rockenfield rejoining up with Geoff Tate, and even Kelly Gray in a supposed second version of Queensryche. Which by the way, I'll believe when I see it. I'm going to re-post here a few posts that I put up on my site under a thread I titled,

A Two Queensryche Scenario.

   So, given the rumor that our feathered friend (blackbird, aka samsara) has put forth in conjunction with the facebook caption from Kelly Gray that Bgs1972 posted, lets humor this situation just for shits and giggles, shall we. As to what that might look like and how that might play out. Because I kind of already know the answer, if by some miraculous twist of insanity Scott completely lost his marbles and did such a thing.

So, lets say that some way and some how. Scott decided to join forces with Geoff Tate and Kelly Gray was going to be in the fold along with Scott Mouton as the guitar tandem. and we'll throw the current dude that is playing bass on the European tour ( I don't know his name off the top of my head) in the mix for the sake of completing the lineup. Now, in addition to that, we need some sort of legal scenario to unfold to somehow give them the rights to also call themselves Queensryche. So lets assume that that somehow happened. So now we have our lineup, we have them going out as Queensryche #2.

Now, we have to really get into some kind of further impossibility in order for this to take place and happen as soon as later this year to capitalize on this whole 30th Anniversary of Mindcrime thing, since that is Geoff's bread and butter and would probably be the reason for this crazy scenario to even unfold. Can the legalities involved in getting court approval to use the name be sorted out that fast, I highly doubt it, but again lets pretend it did. So they are going to go out and play the North American tour for the Operation Mindcrime 30th Anniversary. We'll say in the fall.

  Here are some facts real quick. I don't care what he calls the band, and I don't think it would matter much of a hill of beans that Scott were playing the drums. Because the fact of the matter is he is playing an album that has been done to death, so much so that most of the biggest fans of that record residing on the earth no longer bother to go see it live. Especially with that guitar tandem (which has been done pretty much, and whoever on bass). Scott would be an improvement on the drums. The rest of the production would be the same.

 The same one that is lucky to draw two hundred/ two hundred fifty people to a bar. Which is what I witnessed when I went to see him do it five years ago on the 25th anniversary (when he was also permitted to use the Queensryche name mind you) at a little side bar in the now closed Revel Casino in Atlantic City, which there may have been two hundred and fifty people at (and that is a conservative high side number).

 Now it's five years later, I think there is less of a draw for it now, with all the bad publicity it gets every time the you tube vids go up, read the comments. This would be a small to mid size bar/club tour with empty seats/or plenty of elbow room to spare. Scott is not going to do that kind of tour itinerary that Geoff has been doing with a slew of dates strung together in succession the last couple years (hence I'm sure he is one of the major factors for the fly in shows, I doubt it's Todd or Parker), especially for the peanuts that that tour would pull in cash wise after just having his kid that he wants to stay home with (another dilemma, unless that was all a farce, but I kinda doubt that is how it started if this were true).

Geoff Tate's credibility in the public eye has been in the toilet for some years now, with little improvement on that front that I have witnessed reading comments around the net. Kelly Gray's playing has been absolutely crucified from the bdr to blabbermouth and all points in between by the fan base since he first stepped foot in the band on Q2K, to the Oven Mitts nickname, to the Operation Mindcrime trilogy. This reputation by my observation has not improved any in recent times. There are also a lot of people who do not like Scott Mouton due to his past legal indiscretions. There will also be people who, believe it or not, will not go because Scott sold himself to the devil in joining back up with Tate, that may have otherwise went because they have adapted to enjoying the two entities as separate animals. There are also purists who won't go to either because it is not the original, or enough of the original lineup in either band. So what kind of cash exactly is this tour going to bring in to be able to rub two nickels together having to pay Scott his fair share?

That's the tour...

Now lets really get a laugh here and lets say they record a new album, the lineup stated above with the ability to call themselves Queensryche. We've been here before. Frequency Unknown was one of the most lambasted records in heavy metal history by my observation, so much so that it led to a " why I hate Frequency Unknown" campaign and the ridiculous rant contest or whatever that horseshit was. and I actually liked the record. It also didn't sell worth a shit.

Since then Geoff has released three more albums in his trilogy set over the last three years, each of which hasn't been represented live, have been all but disregarded by most at best , crucified by many at worst, and haven't sold worth a shit either. And again, there's no animosity here, I actually liked the fuckin records.

 
So you tell me how the simple addition of being able to have the name Queensryche on it (for the second time) and having Scott Rockenfield in the band on drums (who arguably isn't even a primary songwriter) is going to make some miraculous difference? Geoff will still write the same kinda stuff as he has been with the help of Kelly Gray and outside writers with some assistance from Scott, and they will release a subpar shitty album along the lines of the four aforementioned that barely anybody bought and nobody besides me and a few hundred other people evidently even liked with a heaping sprinkling of yes...wait for it, Dedicated To Chaos sprinkled in for good measure  Man that will sell like hot cakes, people will be lined up out the door at the shows too.... at Franks Pub.

What are your thoughts???                     


Now, lets discuss the fallout and ramifications of what would be left of the real Queensryche lineup if this were to occur.

The Lineup would still contain two original members, much as the other one. Featuring Michael Wilton and Eddie Jackson, they would have the bonus of still enjoying Parker Lundgren in the band for their guitar tandem completion (he who has been with the band now for ten years and has played on three studio albums, four if you count the upcoming release, which is two more than Kelly Gray did without counting the upcoming release). Todd LaTorre remaining on vocals having two (three if you count the upcoming release) albums under his belt. For drums since he would be the likely candidate at present, we will go with Casey Grillo (who the fans seem to be warm to and like as the temporary fill in and seems to be doing quite a competent and professional job at the task at hand).

This lineup is about to release a new record later in the year, which by all estimations should, at a minimum be pretty fucking good by most peoples expectations, given the performance and reviews of the last two. Not to mention if the speculation holds true Scott's playing will not even be on the damn thing, so ya won't even be able to say he had anything to do with what comes out of your speakers. All props or detractions will go to whoever the hell played the drums on it, and there will be some, I'm sure. But if the songs are good and kick ass, well then the songs are good and kick ass. I for one suspect that they will, with or without Scott's drums.


This lineups live show, and I've looked and done the research is still getting rave live reviews with Casey on the skins. So that would continue to be the case. Todd, well what can ya say the dude can flat out belt it, and he will do the same thing he has been doing for the last, about six years now bringing it live, bringing a resurgent energy, and belting it out. Blowing away by leaps and bounds Tate's current vocal state and anybody that argues to that contrary is fucking deaf. I recommend you go see a show, go see them both (I have) then come talk to me.

So by my estimation the real Queensryche would be the more established live entity, would still draw more people, would outsell the other lineup's record (no, neither will set the world on fire with sales, but would out sell theirs none the less). This Queensryche lineup would by far be the better and more energetic live band. This band would blow that band off the stage with technical playing skills, albeit a nod to Scott on the drums for the other lineup (but he can't fix the vocals or the guitar work) and this lineup's album would smoke the other Queensryche's record in an embarrassing manner, mark my words.


* I thought this applied in this rumor mill speculation and would offer a view point on if this were to happen by some crazy circumstance 

[Samsara]

The great thing about speculation is just that. It is speculation, for fun. Some turns out, some doesnt.

If scott is working with tate again (and i believe he is), what happens from there will be interesting to say the least. After all, isnt that what message boards are for? Unless, of course, folks use mbs for trolling. Thats just pathetic. 

[Zook]

I'm not following any of this Scott stuff, but after all that went down, why would Scott get back with Geoff? It really doesn't make any sense. Was it everyone but him who wanted to start Rising West? I hardly visit this thread, and just randomly clicked, but the resident Queensryche nut thinks Scott is working with Geoff again, so he must have a good reason.

[KevShmev]

In retrospect, it sounds Queensryche made a bad deal by giving up the rights to play Mindcrime as a whole to Tate. Given how playing classic albums on an anniversary has been the live rave for aging artists for quite a few years now, that was probably the one card they still had to play as far as attracting decent size crowds over the span of a whole tour, and they handed that card to Tate.  This band is a disaster, and let's face it, pretty much has been for over 20 years now. 

[Setzer]

The great thing about speculation is just that. It is speculation, for fun. Some turns out, some doesnt.

If scott is working with tate again (and i believe he is), what happens from there will be interesting to say the least. After all, isnt that what message boards are for? Unless, of course, folks use mbs for trolling. Thats just pathetic. 

But you're not really just speculating though. You waltz in here claiming to have inside-knowledge, claiming that this is definitely happening.
Speculation would have been looking at Kelly Gray's picture on Facebook, and guessing that Scott was back to working with Geoff again.

[Samsara]

The great thing about speculation is just that. It is speculation, for fun. Some turns out, some doesnt.

If scott is working with tate again (and i believe he is), what happens from there will be interesting to say the least. After all, isnt that what message boards are for? Unless, of course, folks use mbs for trolling. Thats just pathetic. 

But you're not really just speculating though. You waltz in here claiming to have inside-knowledge, claiming that this is definitely happening.
Speculation would have been looking at Kelly Gray's picture on Facebook, and guessing that Scott was back to working with Geoff again.

Actually, you're incorrect. I didn't waltz in here. I've been a member for I don't know, a decade? Maybe more? 

Second, I came in with knowledge saying that I was told by someone I trust, who has connections with the band, that Rockenfield is working with Tate. That's all I said.

After that, I speculated what may end up happening. You know, an opinion on a potential outcome based on what I was told. So no, I didn't claim anything was happening, except for the fact that I was told Scott is working with Geoff.

Please get things straight before you start accusing people of things.  Thanks. 

[Samsara]

I'm not following any of this Scott stuff, but after all that went down, why would Scott get back with Geoff? It really doesn't make any sense. Was it everyone but him who wanted to start Rising West? I hardly visit this thread, and just randomly clicked, but the resident Queensryche nut thinks Scott is working with Geoff again, so he must have a good reason.

Resident Queensryche nut? 

From what I heard, Tate spoke up for Rockenfield during Rockenfield's recent divorce proceedings, which could have been something that got them talking again. As for why he would do it, if you go back to my speculative post on potential outcomes, I explain that money could be a defining reasons.

In retrospect, it sounds Queensryche made a bad deal by giving up the rights to play Mindcrime as a whole to Tate. Given how playing classic albums on an anniversary has been the live rave for aging artists for quite a few years now, that was probably the one card they still had to play as far as attracting decent size crowds over the span of a whole tour, and they handed that card to Tate.  This band is a disaster, and let's face it, pretty much has been for over 20 years now. 

They did. Although at the time, they felt the name was worth it, and I can't say I blame them. But yeah, the band is a disaster, unfortunately. But I will give TLT-era QR this. Their first two records were good. They just for whatever reason didn't really spotlight them in all the shows they did.

[bosk1]

Setzer and njfirefighter, you both need to tone it down.  Just because you may disagree with or dislike somebody else's opinion doesn't give you the right go start attacking.  Your "attacks" were fairly mild, so this is more of an informal warning.  But I will say this before it escalates:  keep it respectful.

[Setzer]

I didn't attack anyone

[Mosh]

As I think I mentioned in the discography thread, the new material isn't bad (especially Condition Human) but the band has essentially become a nostalgia act. It's hard to get excited about their new music when the band itself doesn't seem to care enough about it to play more of it live. Seeing them follow the gigging patterns and festivals of hair metal bands seems wrong. Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with those bands, but I feel like Queensryche's audience should be similar to a band like Fates Warning at this point.

[PowerSlave]

I feel like Queensryche's audience should be similar to a band like Fates Warning at this point.

This exactly. I had never really thought about it in those terms, but after seeing you mention it, it makes perfect sense. In fact, each of those bands would benefit greatly by doing a co-headline tour together at some point.

[The Walrus]

I bought The Warning today so I now have all five of their first albums. And I also got Condition Human since I'm not eager to hear HITNF after Promised Land disappointed me.