Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album

[bosk1]

PL is a band that has lost the plot.

We get it.  You don't like the album.  But if that is what you think about it, you clearly don't get it either.

[IDontNotDoThings]

PL is a band that has lost the plot.

I disagree, I quite enjoy Paradise Lost 

[The Walrus]

PL is a band that has lost the plot.

We get it.  You don't like the album.  But if that is what you think about it, you clearly don't get it either.

Not to stir the pot, but this attitude towards negative opinions has always annoyed the heck out of me, that attitude of people assuming someone doesn't 'get' an album because they dislike it. I 'get' The Wall, but I think it's a bloated, boring mess. I 'get' Black Sabbath but I don't enjoy their albums. And so on, and so forth... frankly, Promised Land is really disappointing me, yeah, the background info is nice to have, but that doesn't really mean much if the music isn't interesting. For my two cents, Empire is way better. Maybe PL will be a grower, but it's not looking likely. PL is the first Queensryche album that has had me frequently checking the track lengths and trying to figure out how long until the song/album ends. I don't like this vibe. It's a hazy, foggy cloud that permeates the whole album and nothing is fun or interesting about the music.

But then again, I love songs like Surgical Strike and Jet City Woman, and nothing like those are on PL...

[TAC]

K-lox, Bosk is just busting my chops. It wasn’t a serious post.

[?]

PL clicked with me immediately, but then again I love gloomy and mellow music

Btw, I did some stalking detective work and noticed that Scott is not friends with Todd on FB, whereas both are friends with Whip and Parker. Maybe there's nothing more to this, but it strikes me as weird, especially knowing the current situation.

(I respect the band members' privacy, but I posted this because Scott's friend list is public, so anyone could've looked up his profile and noticed the same thing.)

[bosk1]

PL is a band that has lost the plot.

We get it.  You don't like the album.  But if that is what you think about it, you clearly don't get it either.

Not to stir the pot, but this attitude towards negative opinions has always annoyed the heck out of me, that attitude of people assuming someone doesn't 'get' an album because they dislike it. I 'get' The Wall, but I think it's a bloated, boring mess. I 'get' Black Sabbath but I don't enjoy their albums. And so on, and so forth... frankly, Promised Land is really disappointing me, yeah, the background info is nice to have, but that doesn't really mean much if the music isn't interesting. For my two cents, Empire is way better. Maybe PL will be a grower, but it's not looking likely. PL is the first Queensryche album that has had me frequently checking the track lengths and trying to figure out how long until the song/album ends. I don't like this vibe. It's a hazy, foggy cloud that permeates the whole album and nothing is fun or interesting about the music.

Agreed.  In general, that attitude annoys me as well.  But in this case, it is NOT just an assumption that because he doesn't like it, he must not get it.  This is an album where there is a LOT more to it than just the notes played in the songs.  TAC has been posting about it for a long time, so I know his opinion in as much detail as can reasonably expected.  And from that, it is clear that he doesn't "get" the album, and that goes beyond merely disliking it.  But that comment was directed to him, and not necessarily to anyone else who doesn't like it (including you). 

[The Walrus]

Interesting. Carry on, gents

[Samsara]

Musically, PL to me continues Chris' natural progression as a songwriter. He became more interested in acoustic work, particularly after the popularity of Silent Lucidity and the band's MTV Unplugged session. There's a quote somewhere (it might be the Empire DVD-A interview, which was done in 2002), where Chris said that with Empire, the band focused on writing songs with a vocal and simple instrumentation, and if it doesn't work in that context, then they needed to stop and take another look at it, instead of just layering it and trying to push through (total paraphrase here).

I think that really is the approach PL takes, albeit a darker one, given what went on with the band. PL is driven by emotional strife, and the music captures that perfectly. Completely respect those that aren't into it. (TAC and I have gone around on this at least a dozen times, lol.) But for me, PL captures a band at a crossroads, and it is a fascinating look inside what was going on with them at the time.

[Cool Chris]

This is an album where there is a LOT more to it than just the notes played in the songs. 

So? As a consumer, all I am interested in when I listen to music is the notes played in the songs. I don't care if the writer is expressing issues he has with his father, or if the band is experiencing emotional strife. I don't want a "look inside what was going on with them." If I did, I'd buy a biography.

I know it's not totally analogous, but it reminds me of the The Best of Times issue that revolved around Mike saying (paraphrasing) "How do you criticize this song, I wrote it for my father!" Not to sound crass, and I apologize to Mike for picking on him in this example, but I bought your album to listen to music.

[bosk1]

This is an album where there is a LOT more to it than just the notes played in the songs. 

So? As a consumer, all I am interested in when I listen to music is the notes played in the songs. I don't care if the writer is expressing issues he has with his father, or if the band is experiencing emotional strife. I don't want a "look inside what was going on with them." If I did, I'd buy a biography.

I know it's not totally analogous, but it reminds me of the The Best of Times issue that revolved around Mike saying (paraphrasing) "How do you criticize this song, I wrote it for my father!" Not to sound crass, and I apologize to Mike for picking on him in this example, but I bought your album to listen to music.

That's all fine.  Again, my comment wasn't aimed at you.  If you don't like it, you don't like it.  And if you don't connect with it, you don't connect with it.  And if you don't care why, it doesn't matter why.  That's all well and good.  In a sense, the TBOT analogy is a good one.  Your paraphrase is close enough to make the point--Mike is off base for not understanding that people may not like the song, and may not ultimately care to go beyond the fact that they just don't like the music.  The fact behind why he wrote it isn't really relevant to someone's taste.  But, to use that example, assume someone were to post about the song something along the lines of, "What a stupid song full of emotionless drivel.  Mike has clearly lost the plot."  I think that would be off base and clearly not understanding the song.  Criticize away, on just about any basis that you like.  But when the criticism attacks the motivation behind the music, and the critic's understanding of the motivation behind the music is off base, then the criticism itself becomes off base.

[Cool Chris]

Thank you for the reply, I understand your point more clearly now.

[TAC]

(TAC and I have gone around on this at least a dozen times, lol.)

You mean at least a dozen YEARS, my friend.

[The Walrus]

Yeah, guys, I think I have to chalk up Promised Land as a solid miss for my taste. I'm not keen on listening to it over and over again trying to get it to grow on me so that's sadly a clunker and the only one I'm disappointed with (The Warning is interesting, not something I'd go back to often if ever but not disappointing). I'm going to pick up Hear In The Now Frontier and Condition Human from the record store this weekend. HITNF to give the band another listen and see what I think of this, but I'm ready to accept it might be the last Queensryche album pre-Todd that I pay for. I'll get Condition Human because I hear the Todd era is awesome (they don't have the self-titled there, just Q2K). Hope they're better than PL.

I know, I know, PL is a grower, etc. - just not into it, not looking for albums that I have to put in effort to appreciate.

[bosk1]

I don't see much value in trying to listen to something over and over if you already don't like it.  If it doesn't suit your tastes, it doesn't suit your tastes.  You don't have to go on a quest to the highest mountain to try to find something to latch onto.  But that said, if you haven't given it one full listen with headphones or a good sound system where you can just listen and focus, I think you really should at least do that before giving up on it.  As has already been said, it's more that kind of album than the kind that will just smack you upside the head even upon a casual listen.  But if you've done that and it didn't click, yup, just chalk it up as a miss and move on.

[The Walrus]

I have. It's just not doing it for me. I want that Rage For Order, Mindcrime vibe. Empire is good but not what made me really love the group, so it's just a couple steps below those two for my taste. Hoping Condition Human taps more into that vibe, even a little bit.

[KevShmev]

I actually think that turning a CD on in the background is a good way to get into if people are telling me it is great and it is not grabbing me a few listens. Turn it on when you're doing housework, browsing the net, etc. That method worked for me a few times, as little things jumped out at me in those cases.

But I get not wanting to persist, since there is way too much good music in the word to spend too much trying to like something.

[PowerSlave]

Sometimes an album will take me years to get into. I'll listen to it a few times when it comes out, and get nothing out of it. Then I'll listen to it again many years later, and the lightbulb will come on and I'll love it from that point forward. A Matter of Life and Death from Iron Maiden was like that for me, and getting into Porcupine Tree was as well. I'd say not to force it, but if you get the inclination to put it in at a later time then go for it.

[bosk1]

I have. It's just not doing it for me. I want that Rage For Order, Mindcrime vibe. Empire is good but not what made me really love the group, so it's just a couple steps below those two for my taste. Hoping Condition Human taps more into that vibe, even a little bit.

Yeah, that's cool then.  You've given it a shot.  Not everybody connects with everything the same way.

[Samsara]

I have. It's just not doing it for me. I want that Rage For Order, Mindcrime vibe. Empire is good but not what made me really love the group, so it's just a couple steps below those two for my taste. Hoping Condition Human taps more into that vibe, even a little bit.

You know, I get that regarding PL. And your taste is your taste. I do think you should revisit it after a while, however. The most Rage-like moment on PL is the solo in Lady Jane. Very reminiscent of the Rage years. Had that vibe.

If what you're looking for is the RFO-Mindcrime vibe, then Condition Human should click with you. It's not as good as those, obviously, because it is a different band writing it with Todd and Eddie joining Wilton in the majority of the writing. But it is good, and I sorta view Condition Human as the record QR could have made after Mindcrime, had they not wanted to go with a warmer tone and go more polished. Condition Human reminds me a bit of No Exit Fates Warning, combined with Mindcrime, Rage, and a bit of Empire.

[The Walrus]

I have. It's just not doing it for me. I want that Rage For Order, Mindcrime vibe. Empire is good but not what made me really love the group, so it's just a couple steps below those two for my taste. Hoping Condition Human taps more into that vibe, even a little bit.

You know, I get that regarding PL. And your taste is your taste. I do think you should revisit it after a while, however. The most Rage-like moment on PL is the solo in Lady Jane. Very reminiscent of the Rage years. Had that vibe.

If what you're looking for is the RFO-Mindcrime vibe, then Condition Human should click with you. It's not as good as those, obviously, because it is a different band writing it with Todd and Eddie joining Wilton in the majority of the writing. But it is good, and I sorta view Condition Human as the record QR could have made after Mindcrime, had they not wanted to go with a warmer tone and go more polished. Condition Human reminds me a bit of No Exit Fates Warning, combined with Mindcrime, Rage, and a bit of Empire.

Now THAT'S what I call a hype description. That's what I want to hear. 

[Samsara]

Oh yeah. I mean, the self-titled TLT era record was made to resemble Empire/Mindcrime a bit. But with Condition Human, more of Todd's preferences (IMO) crept into the vocals. I am positive you will dig Condition Human big time.

I haven''t listened to it in ages, as I no longer really care for modern QR, but I recall Eye9 and Hellfire being my clear favorites. The title track is a bit of a...I'd say it is very derivative of Roads to Madness meets Suite Sister Mary. And I don't care at all for the sappy 80s ballad Bulletproof (although a lot of people like that tune). But the rest is pretty damn good.

[Mindflux]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZChdS1pPXk&feature=share

Trunk on Rockenfield being MIA.

[devieira73]

It seems that he knows about it less than all of us!
Seriously apparently Eddie doesn’t even know that Queensryche is recording a new album without Scott.

[Samsara]

I just got the scoop on an interesting bit of information. This obviously shouldn't be taken as gospel, because I can't say who told me, but according to someone I know with ties to the band, Scott Rockenfield is back working with Geoff Tate. I doubt even the guys in Queensryche even know it yet. 

Since I can't reveal where the info came from, I realize most will take it as pure speculation, as you absolutely should. But I firmly believe it, and I figured that was what was going to happen after Scott's extended "parental leave" went well beyond what most do. Combine that with Scott likely not (I think Todd has said enough that we know Scott didn't) doing drums on Queensryche's album, this would set up a really interesting turn of events. The below is all speculative....

Tate is out there doing Mindcrime 30. Scott joins him. At least for now, Scott is still a principal member of Queensryche's corporation. So not only would Scott get his cut of the Queensryche profits, he'd no doubt get some sort of money for being back with Tate, if he is going to do shows. Double-dipping, anyone?  I can't imagine, if that is indeed what happens, that Wilton and Jackson would stand for it. They'd probably vote him out. Problem is -- they still would have to pay Scott his share of the band's value to cash him out, and I guarantee that they can't afford to do that. So, what I am getting at is, theoretically, what if Scott, as a member of Queensryche's corporation, gave Tate permission to use the name, and Tate/Rockenfield start booking as Queensryche - and neither Wilton or Jackson could do anything about it?

If that happens, it is only a matter of time before Eddie and Michael will be confronted about what to do. Tate is out there touring. Touring bars, sure, but touring. Queensryche is doing fly-ins. Would Eddie leave and join Tate/Rockenfield...particularly if they (Wilton/Jackson) couldn't pay Rockenfield AND Tate in regard to what they owe them (Tate in the settlement, and Rockenfield if he wants to cash out and leave the new QR corporation)? Eddie would follow the money. If that happens, then (keep following me), then Ed and Scott, along with Tate would have not only the ability to call themselves Queensryche, but also have the majority of the members. So who would look better to a promoter to book for a show? Wilton, Lundgren, La Torre, Grillo and a bass player? Or Queensryche's original lead singer, bassist and drummer? I know who most would book. Michael would have no choice to follow suit.

That sets up some crazy drama that is just about par for the course with this band. The person who told me about Rockenfield working with Tate is someone I've known for years and trust. I realize that most of you all will, and should, take the news about Rockenfield as pure rumor and speculation. But I am really anxious to see what goes down in the coming months and what the fallout will be if this Rockenfield reunion with Tate turns out to be true.

Sorry I didn't name names on this. I was asked not to use the person's name, and I need to honor that. And like I said, while I believe it is true, I'd encourage everyone to take it as pure speculation until it comes out, and if it doesn't, oh well.

[Cool Chris]

...what if Scott, as a member of Queensryche's corporation, gave Tate permission to use the name..

Without getting too much in to the legal aspects of QR's current business structure, can one member of QR do this? I can't imagine one member having the power to do that.

[MirrorMask]

Wow. I don't know you Samsara but it's more than evident that you know about Queensryche as much as John Petrucci knows about guitars, so I believe you. Having said that, I wonder what possessed Scott to do this. They enter in a personal and artistic downward spiral for years, they reach the breaking point, they split, they rebuild a fanbase and then he just goes back to the original singer that spat on him? that's like James LaBrie quitting DT to front Sons of Apollo. Or Jordan in place of Derek if you will.

[Kwyjibo]

If this is true Scott would be an even greater douchebag than Tate has ever been. And it would be the end of anything with the name Queensryche on it, because who would take them seriously?

[jjrock88]

If Scott is working again with Geoff, no question this is stage one of a reunion.  How it plays out exactly, well it sounds like you will need a spreadsheet to figure that out lol.

[Kwyjibo]

If they want to reunite, sit down and talk about it with all who are involved.

Talking about parental leave and then working with Geoff and (presumably) not informing the others is just shit and shouldn't lead to a reunion. In this case they should just lay the name Queensryche to rest and call it a day.

[bl5150]

Interesting - I saw them (and met them) on the Condition Human tour and had a feeling Scott in particular didn't want to be there.   

Given the way Tate treated him it's hard to imagine a reason why other than $$.

[devieira73]

https://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/queensryche2

[?]

If it is indeed true that Michael and Eddie can't afford to buy Scott out, I assume they don't have much choice, other than let him do whatever the hell he wants to and finally let Tate back in - given that they already met at the Spanish festival last year and (seemingly) made peace with each other, it's not impossible.

The most likely scenario in my head is that QR will put out the new album and play shows in support of it for a year or so (with Grillo on drums), while Geoff and Scott go out and tour with the Mindcrime theme for the umpteenth time. Once QR is done promoting the album, there'll be an inevitable reunion.

[IDontNotDoThings]

I really hope this reunion doesn't happen...

[wolfking]

Scott goes back working with a piece of shit that spits on him in front of an audience?  No wonder you guys took 20 years to get rid of this guy, weak as piss. 

[devieira73]

Really weird thing to happen. But maybe that happened because of families friendship? Scott and Geoff ‘s wives were/are close friends, right?