Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album

[Samsara]

Yep, agreed on American Soldier. I really still enjoy A Dead Man's Words, At 30,000 Ft., The Killer, and Man Down! Those four tracks are pretty damn good.

I have this post-DeGarmo playlist I run often (in no particular order):

When the Rain Comes...
Howl
Liquid Sky
Breakdown
Murderer
Re-Arrange You
The Killer
Man Down!
A Dead Man's Words
At 30,000 Ft.

D2C has a couple of tunes I dig...mostly just one, At the Edge. Big Noise is OK too, but that's about it for me.

The new Queensryche with La Torre has some good new songs, but they don't play a lot of them live, and they lack something to my ear as well. Favs from the new QR lineup include Redemption, Don't Look Back, Fallout, Hellfire, Eye9. The songs from the new lineup pay homage to a bit of classic QR, but have a different vibe.

[jjrock88]

I agree with At the Edge, I guess thats the only song that I can say I didn't mind on DTC.  But not enough for me to revisit the album ever again.

New QR is solid, I like CH more that the first with Todd.  I would say the title track, bulletproof and toxic remedy are my favorites.

[bosk1]

The first half of that record was pretty solid.  Actually, other than a miss or two, the first 2/3 was really solid.  The back 1/3 or so was a bit iffy, but it wasn't something that jumped out as being huge before I had a chance to really digest the album.  The overall pretty solid quality of the first 2/3 distracted me, and I was in the camp that were saying that Queensryche was "back again!"  But as I digested the album, including the story itself, it became apparent after not too long that the latter 1/3 wasn't just weak, but it was pretty bad, to the point of tarnishing the "Mindcrime legacy."  Then of course, we also eventually learned that the band wasn't involved in any of the writing, etc.  It's really a shame.  That album did show some promise. 

[Samsara]

If I recall correctly, the original writing was:

Murderer - Wilton had the repeating riff

The Hands - Riff is Wilton's

Hostage (which is a Tribe song changed into the version on MC II) is Wilton/Jackson/Rockenfield musically, but the MC II version features courtroom drama to connect it to the story, and a harmonized solo by Mike Stone instead of the initial, more aggressive one by Wilton

And that's it. The rest is Slater/Stone musically, and Tate lyrically.

[cfmoran13]

Gotta love Blabbermouth's click-bait title for this article.  In this case, I think it's safe to say "never".

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/geoff-tate-doesnt-rule-out-return-to-queensryche-never-say-never/ 

I don't know why they'd ever want to work with this guy again. 

[Zydar]

Meanwhile, they've released a music video for 'Bulletproof'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2AfrMsdB7I

[Lowdz]

I genuinely can't listen to anything after HITNF, and that's not a very good album.
I did actually like O:M2, in a it's not as awful as I expected sort of way. I really didn't want them to do it because there was no way it was ever going to stand up to the legacy. Nothing Tateryche did stands up to the legacy.
I can listen to some of O:M2, so that's an improvement.

[jammindude]

The Right Side of My Mind is still my favorite post DeGarmo song....even though it's from the worst album.

[bosk1]

The Right Side of My Mind is still my favorite post DeGarmo song....even though it's from the worst album.

I'm just going to assume that the memory of D2C was so painful that you forgot it existed. 

[PowerSlave]

The Right Side of My Mind is still my favorite post DeGarmo song....even though it's from the worst album.

I'm just going to assume that the memory of D2C was so painful that you forgot it existed. 

I've never heard a note from D2C. I was mildly curious at the time that it came out, but the comments in here scared me away. You guys saved me a little bit of money that I would have wasted on that one. If it's worse than Q2K, then it must be an absolute pile of shit.

[bosk1]

I refused to buy it new, both because I didn't want to waste money on something that was by all accounts bad, and because I refused to put a dime into Geoff's and Susan's pockets by that time.  I waited until I found a copy in the used bin, and only bought it then out of being a completist for my once-favorite band.  I only listened to it once, and have no desire to revisit it.

[jjrock88]

I ended up chucking DTC in the garbage bin after two listens.

As far as Tate rejoining QR, I really can't see that ever happening unless it involved Degarmo rejoining.  And I can't see that ever happening either.

[jammindude]

 Just got back on the bandwagon. If Geoff Tate were to ever rejoin, I would be completely done with Queensryche forever.

[bosk1]

Just got back on the bandwagon. If Geoff Tate were to ever rejoin, I would be completely done with Queensryche forever.

Have you seen them live with Todd?

[jammindude]

Yes. Twice now. INCREDIBLE shows. Far better than the last Tate show I saw. And a million times better than the many clips I've seen of Tate's solo shows. (shudder)

[cfmoran13]

Yes. Twice now. INCREDIBLE shows. Far better than the last Tate show I saw. And a million times better than the many clips I've seen of Tate's solo shows. (shudder)

THIS!!!  I've only seen them once with Todd.  But, I'll take him over current-day Tater any day.

[Samsara]

I know a couple of things about Queensryche. I'll say this -- Todd is a good singer. His voice is very suited to sing the old stuff -- EP-Rage for Order. After that though, particularly as you get to Empire, you can start to see where he's not as strong. His voice isn't as rich and powerful as Tate's on the "warmer" Queensryche material. One listen to jet city, lucidity,another rainy night, or even damaged (which is a personal fav), you can tell. But for what Queensryche is doing now, Todd is solid.

He has really improved on the last couple of tours. He's learned to become a professional singer, as opposed to a guy who goes out and wails, and if the voice isn't there, he's in trouble. Now, he doesn't go for all the notes -- he picks specific ones -- and he cuts notes off a little to save his voice.

As for Tate -- the guy has lost his mind, and is realizing now he's pretty much done without Queensryche. But you can't deny the man was one of the three principal architects of Queensryche's sound (along with DeGarmo and Wilton). The man had a legendary voice from 1981-2005 (anyone who heard him on the summer 2005 tour with Judas Priest can't deny how good he sounded, even if they had to drop things a half step). Tate's operatic voice, progressive rock leanings, and dramatic delivery meshed with DeGarmo's keen sense of melody, chord progressions, and harmonies, along with Wilton's push for heavy riffs, defined Queensryche through the band's original tenure, and the brief handful of songs on Tribe. Queensryche would not be Queensryche without those three (and honestly, all five, the rhythm section of Jackson and Rockenfield is underrated). And trying to minimize Tate's impact on their sound (which admittedly, I did a bit during the lawsuit of 2012) is foolhardy.

If Tate ever did rejoin (and I never say never, but I don't think it would be until 2018-2020, honestly) he'd have to be publicly apologetic to his bandmates for attacking them and trying to steal money from underneath them. And Tate, while he laments not being able to "work things out" with QR, has not yet even acknowledged his wrongdoing. So there's a long way to go. But without DeGarmo being a part of it (and I think it is very telling he's stayed far away from La Torre-fronted QR -- I'm pretty sure he knows TLT isn't the same kind of talent Tate was and is keeping his distance until all options for full reunion are extinguished), I'm not really interested in Tate returning.

For those that love the TLT-fronted version of QR, it's a good time. They have two pretty good albums, and hopefully, this next one will be great. But for me personally, I have some legit hangups (both musically and personal) that have me not as impressed with them as I originally was. The original Queensryche was something special. This lineup (like the DeGarmo-less, Tate-fronted lineups from 1999-2001 and 2003-2012) is just a different animal, and not as good.

[jjrock88]

When you have a six album run of the EP- Promised Land, it is nearly impossible to ever top that. That's just a magical run of amazing music.

I'm interested to hear what the third album brings as I found CH was a big improvement over the self titled. I'll be honest though, as much as I like the two TLT albums, I am still hoping for something a bit better. I'd like to see them let lose a bit more and get out of the mid tempo sound for the most part. Also would like to see more of the progressive side that they showed on the Condition Human title track.

As far as Geoff goes, I think I can speak for a lot of people on this forum that we are checked out in regards to anything he has been releasing the last few years.

I'll never say that I'm completely done with him because people deserve a chance to change. But it's going to take some work on his end. I think he needs to disappear for awhile. He needs to honestly realize his mistakes, make a sincere apology to QR and the fans. Plus take some better care of his vocals and maybe change up his look a bit. If he did all that, I think a lot of people would be open to giving him another shot and maybe some kind of reunion would be possible.

But if not, his vocals on those first six albums are and always will be legendary

[?]

I love how quickly Tate changed his mind about a QR reunion He must be running out of cash:

April 25, 2016 - Geoff Tate Rules Out Return To Queensryche

December 18, 2016 - Geoff Tate Doesn't Rule Out Return To Queensryche: 'Never Say Never'

Seriously though, in the live videos I've seen from this year he sounds a little better than he did during his Fakeryche tours and it feels as though he gives a damn again, though his voice is still a shadow of its former self.

I'm interested to hear what the third album brings as I found CH was a big improvement over the self titled. I'll be honest though, as much as I like the two TLT albums, I am still hoping for something a bit better. I'd like to see them let lose a bit more and get out of the mid tempo sound for the most part. Also would like to see more of the progressive side that they showed on the Condition Human title track.

As far as Geoff goes, I think I can speak for a lot of people on this forum that we are checked out in regards to anything he has been releasing the last few years.

I'll never say that I'm completely done with him because people deserve a chance to change. But it's going to take some work on his end. I think he needs to disappear for awhile. He needs to honestly realize his mistakes, make a sincere apology to QR and the fans. Plus take some better care of his vocals and maybe change up his look a bit. If he did all that, I think a lot of people would be open to giving him another shot and maybe some kind of reunion would be possible.

But if not, his vocals on those first six albums are and always will be legendary

Agreed 100%.

[Samsara]

Re: Condition human (the song)

When i first heard it, I loved it. However, if you listen, it is pretty much, no, it IS the most derivative song the new lineup has ever done. It directly lifts stuff from Suite Sister Mary and Roads to Madness. It's not a bad tune, but it could have, and should have been so much more. Michael worked on that song since 2012...and that is what it ended up? A shorter "epic" that borrows heavily from two classics? Bah...

I like it, but seriously, after I realized that, my appreciation for the song dropped like a two ton heavy thing.

[TAC]

Re: Condition human (the song)

When i first heard it, I loved it. However, if you listen, it is pretty much, no, it IS the most derivative song the new lineup has ever done. It directly lifts stuff from Suite Sister Mary and Roads to Madness. It's not a bad tune, but it could have, and should have been so much more. Michael worked on that song since 2012...and that is what it ended up? A shorter "epic" that borrows heavily from two classics? Bah...

I like it, but seriously, after I realized that, my appreciation for the song dropped like a two ton heavy thing.

It has always reminded me a bit of Promised Land (the song). I don't get a Roads To Madness feel, but the Suite Sister Mary influence is clear. I agree that for its length it gets a bit lost.
Still, I'd like to see them continue to write along some of those lines.

[Samsara]

Yes. Fully agree that Promised Land, the song is also present a bit in it. I really dont know what direction I want them to go in. Id like them to find their own voice, as opposed to "writing like Queensryche." Theyve painted themselves into a corner. On one hand, they are cognizant now of being more like their classic sound. On the other hand, only Wilton remains from the songwriting trio of that classic periods, and arguably, he was the lesser of those three. So shouldnt this "new" lineup, which features the writing of Eddie Jackson and Todd LaTorre, branch out and be themselves? I think so. And they have to a degree. But its like they are trapped inside their own past expectations.

Eddie is a sappy power ballad loving dude. Todd loves them too. But Todd also loves extreme metal. But hes said continually that some aspects of what they love as musicians wont be a part of QR's sound because its "not right" for Queensryche. While i respect that, i also think it handcuffs them, and at this stage of their careers, i just dont think they will ever risk try to truly write to all of their potential, because they are too concerned with trying to sound like what wilton, degarmo and tate had them sounding like in the band's prime.

[TAC]

  I really dont know what direction I want them to go in. Id like them to find their own voice, as opposed to "writing like Queensryche." Theyve painted themselves into a corner. 

I agree. They need to forget that they are called Queensryche and go out and write what comes naturally to them.

I have always considered the s/t a glorified "welcome back" EP, and I do think CH built positively upon it. Hopefully they have a vision for the next album that looks forward instead of backwards.

[bosk1]

As far a the writing is concerned, I am really happy with how Condition Human turned out.  For me, it is a great mix of "classic sound" and newer, more "modern" sound.  And, yeah, there are some things that don't work for one reason or another.  But really, to me, I feel I can easily say that there is 1/3 or more of the album that is stellar, 1/3 or more that is good, and 1/3 or less that doesn't work as well.  And if I turned my mental clock back to the era when this band originated, albums from '80s bands often had about that mix (if not 1/4 great, 1/4 good, and 1/2 "filler").  Really, it is only a small handful of bands that can more often than not write an album that is stellar from start to finish (or that has only 1 or 2 duds total out of an entire album).  If the next album turned out to be, in essence, "Condition Human II," I would be happy with it.

Now in terms of the band marketing, promoting, and supporting the new material, and giving concert-going fans value for their ticket money, that's a different story and an area where I continue to feel the band is inexcusably falling far short of their potential.

[TAC]

Overall, I was happy with CH. To me, it validated and built upon the s/t. To me, they checked a box for me. I was skeptical, so that was good. But I think there is still another level to go.

[bosk1]

Yeah, I liked the S/T a lot, but just felt like even the best songs felt a bit underdeveloped.  Overall, the album left me feeling like they put together a great effort, but needed time to gel together as a songwriting unit.  That all happened with CH, as far as I'm concerned.  Now don't get me wrong--I'm not saying that should rest on their Laurels and that there isn't room to take things up a notch or two.  They can and should continue to grow.  Just expressing that, when it comes to CH, I am a happy customer.

[jjrock88]

I still think that with good promoting, the songs "bulletproof" and "toxic remedy" had potential for some mainstream success.

[Samsara]

I think Condition Human is a good album. I think the point I'm making is more that the band is sort of in this difficult place of trying to copy a sound written mostly by people no longer in the band (Wilton obviously is, and you can hear his distinct riffs and solo style), and also trying to move forward.

I thought it was telling when TLT and Parker talked about how certain things they like stylistically aren't "right" for Queensryche (paraphrasing from memory here). Specifically, I remember asking Todd why he doesn't sing for Queensryche like he sings the song "Discordia" that he wrote with one of the Drover brothers as a side project. And he said it was too heavy for Queensryche. Really? And you have Ed Jackson, who was never a major song contributor before, now taking over as a major one. The band has done a good balancing act with Condition Human, but it's just a weird thing.

Agreed with bosk1 about the record being 1/3 really good, 1/3 good, and 1/3 Ok. That's a pretty good record overall. I just think the situation Queensryche has put itself in is a strange one, given that 2/3 of the guys who created that sonic template (and arguably the most important 2) are gone, and yet they are still trying to emulate that. I have to think that stifles growth in some manner (as with my example of Discordia above).

I may not be as high on this lineup as I once was, but there's no denying Condition Human was a good record.

I still think that with good promoting, the songs "bulletproof" and "toxic remedy" had potential for some mainstream success.

I gotta admit, I really don't like the power ballad Bulletproof. I know it has a lot of fans, and Todd La Torre loves him some power ballad, but I wasn't as high. Toxic Remedy is a good tune. But I much prefer Hellfire and Eye9. To me, those are the best on the record easily.

I think I said this when the album came out, but it still stands. Condition Human to me is where Queensryche would have gone after Operation: Mindcrime had they wanted a bit more mainstream appeal, but still wanted to focus on metal, as opposed to hard rock. CH has more of a early Alder-era FW vibe to me injected into it.

[jjrock88]

And from the S/T, "In This Light" also had some potential for mainstream radio. Actually the song comes across as the band going out of their way to write a song for radio. It reminded me of Another Rainy Night. It just stood out to me for that reason. Good song though

And I like the FW Alder comparison Brian

[bosk1]

I think Condition Human is a good album. I think the point I'm making is more that the band is sort of in this difficult place of trying to copy a sound written mostly by people no longer in the band (Wilton obviously is, and you can hear his distinct riffs and solo style), and also trying to move forward.

This may sound odd, but taking that difficult position into accounts actually enhances my enjoyment of CH.  I think, it large part, it is just because balancing the perceived need to maintain some vestiges of a band's "classic sound" and also sound current is a VERY difficult thing to do for bands that have been around for so long, even those that still somehow manage to have preserved their classic-era songwriting core.  Take Tesla for example.  Notwithstanding losing Tommy, their songwriting core has managed to stay intact.  And at the time it was released, Into The Now knocked it out of the park in terms of hitting that balance.  And yet, everything they have released since then has, IMO, fallen short.  We could cite many other examples of bands that have tried and failed to hit that balance.  And we could debate the reasons for that.  But my point is simply that, for my tastes, Queensryche hit that balance incredibly well on CH, and the fact that they did is a plus as far as I'm concerned.  I don't really mind that they may somewhat be "constrained" by not wanting to include too much that is "outside the box" for the "classic Queensryche sound."  We all have our own thoughts as to how much is too much.  But I like the balance they have found.

[jjrock88]

I would like to imagine Geoff Tate from 1984 singing all the songs from the S/T and CH and the amazing sounds that would ensue.

[Samsara]

I hear ya bosk. And I can appreciate it. But as you know, I am coming from it from a slightly more...engaged perspective. I just listened to the record from front to back for the first time in probably eight months. It hasn't aged well for me at all. I actually prefer the vocals on the self-titled, and the drums.

For me, most of my Queensryche enjoyment will unfortunately be living in the past, with a mix of songs from after the original lineup being peppered in here and there. They just aren't the same sounding band, and that connection is a bit lacking because of it and various factors. But really glad folks like you and JJ are diggin' it all.

[TAC]

For me, most of my Queensryche enjoyment will unfortunately be living in the past, 

I think that speaks for everyone.

I'm not sure what influence Wilton had on the writing, but is he really strong enough to carry a band? Jackson and Rockenfield really seem like bystanders, and always have.

[Phoenix87x]

My heart will always belong to the old material, but that being said the material they are making now is head and shoulders above stuff like Dedicated to chaos, so even though its might not be as mind blowing as those original albums, I still am enjoying what we have.

And on top of that, being able to see them live with renewed passion and enthusiasm means a lot to me, since I was too young to see them back in the hey day.

[bosk1]

I hear ya bosk. And I can appreciate it. But as you know, I am coming from it from a slightly more...engaged perspective.

Yeah, I know.  I'm kind of glad I'm not that...engaged.  As of now, it hasn't really impacted my enjoyment of the music.  That could easily change at some point down the road.  But for now, I'm detached enough to where it hasn't put me off to the level that it has impacted you. 

I'm not sure what influence Wilton had on the writing, but is he really strong enough to carry a band? Jackson and Rockenfield really seem like bystanders, and always have.

I disagree.  They may not offer a lot in terms of main writing of a song from its inception, other than the odd song here or there.  But neither of them plays primarily on a compositional instrument either, so that is to be expected.  I believe they more or less contribute to the writing to the same extent any rhythm section in a rock band does.  But I think that, being one of the more talented rhythm sections in classic rock, they have more tools in their arsenal than most, which makes their contributions more pronounced, to me.  Take a song like Della Brown, for example.  The rhythm section makes that song.  And yet, Eddie doesn't have "writing" credit on it at all.  But Scott does.  And while not nearly as prominent, I would maintain that the rhythm parts in Empire make that song as well, and neither of them have writing credit.  I think the two of them have always brought a lot to the table in the writing department, even though most of their "writing" may just be writing the rhythm parts of songs and not writing main melodies or riffs.