Official Queensryche thread: Kickstart the next album

[MykeHavoc]

Promised Land is an album that finds you. You need to be in the right frame of mind to fully absorb it's brilliance. Just hang on to it,
and when the time is right, you'll know, and it will open up a lot of doors in your mind.
Along with Rage For Order (my favorite album of all time...period) and Mindcrime, this is their best.

[Silver Tears]

I've only listened to Operation: Mindcrime (awesome album) and I'm judging from the last few posts I should go for Promised Land next?

[glaurung]

I've only listened to Operation: Mindcrime (awesome album) and I'm judging from the last few posts I should go for Promised Land next?

Empire is more similar to O:M but Promised Land is very good too.

[Mebert78]

I've only listened to Operation: Mindcrime (awesome album) and I'm judging from the last few posts I should go for Promised Land next?

I would go for Empire next.  Empire is full of hits and is so catchy.  Promised Land is more of an acquired taste and takes some time.

[Nick]

Yeah, a new fan should go with Empire and then either Warning or Rage for Order prior to Promised Land.

[Silver Tears]

Ok, I'll give Empire a listen and report back 

[Samsara]

Ok, I'll give Empire a listen and report back  

here would be the recommended listening after Mindcrime. I also put in some descriptive terms to help:

Empire (mainstream hard rock)
Rage for Order (prog metal beginnings)
Promised Land (think a heavier Pink Floyd)
The Warning (Iron Maiden with some more progressive leanings)
EP (Maiden/Priest)
Tribe (2000s-ish heavy riffing, some Tool influences as well, some acoustic-type strolls, modern hard rock/metal mixed with a more mid-tempo pace. Just skip over "Losing Myself" however, because that isn't a song written or recorded by the original lineup and doesn't fit the flow of the rest of the record.)
Hear in the Now Frontier - stripped down record. production and sound is very dry. Great guitar work, however. Just not metal at all. More hard rock than anything, but with a grunge-influenced sort of vibe.

Those are all the records from the original Queensryche lineup.

[glaurung]

Just whatever you do don't listen to Operation: Mindcrime II.

[Samsara]

Just whatever you do don't listen to Operation: Mindcrime II.

agreed. lol.

[bosk1]

No, go right ahead and listen to it.  Just shut it off after Murderer and pretend it ends there.

[Nick]

Yeah, that does make it a billion times better. Still not as good as anything Promised Land or prior, but it makes it somewhat respectable.

[Phantasmatron]

No, go right ahead and listen to it.  Just shut it off after Murderer and pretend it ends there.

No, it's much easier to pretend that "Fear City Slide" on repeat 14 times is actually the whole album.

[pogoowner]

No, go right ahead and listen to it.  Just shut it off after Murderer and pretend it ends there.

Yeah, it's really not bad aside from that last stretch of songs.

What's the consensus on American Soldier? I've yet to hear it.

[Samsara]

Let me make this easier:

ORIGINAL LINEUP ALBUMS (the lineup that actually wrote and recorded its own music)

EP
The Warning
Live in Tokyo (found on the remastered version of the EP)
Rage for Order
Operation: Mindcrime
Empire
Building Empires - DVD of live footage/videos, history of the band, good stuff.
Operation: LIVEcrime - historic live DVD/CD set.
Promised Land
Promised Land CD-Rom - old school CD-Rom video game released in 1996
Hear in the Now Frontier
Greatest Hits (various singles and a couple of b-sides from 1983-1997)
Tribe (minus the song "Losing Myself" which was a last-minute addition once DeGarmo left the band again)

Kelly Gray Era (DeGarmo's replacement, both as guitarist and major songwriter)

Q2k
Live Evolution - nice 1 DVD and 2 CD set...Kelly Gray is a bit tough, given his different way of playing CHris DeGarmo's parts, but still a quality DVD and live release overall.

Tateryche (Queensryche spearheaded by Geoff Tate, who uses producers/outside writers to write the music and then has the band record it)

Art of Live - horrible live album. Don't buy it, ever.

Operation: Mindcrime II

Mindcrime at the Moore - double DVD/CD set of both Mindcrime albums performed live, more in a Broadway style production

Take Cover - covers album...horrible vocals

American Soldier


As bosk1 has stated, if you pick up Mindcrime II, just from a musical standpoint, it's decent through "Murderer." No sense in listening after that. Complete trainwreck. "Fear City Slide" is pretty good as well, probably the only track worth a damn from the second half of that record.

American Soldier is pretty decent, but like Mindcrime II, it falls apart. In this case, it falls apart after the song "Man Down."

The thing you have to remember about Queensryche is, anything that is not the original lineup, tends to sound very different. The songwriting style found in QR's original lineup records really follows a path of musical evolution. The non-original lineup stuff sticks out a bit like a sore thumb, since a different person is writing the music...

Not because it is all BAD, but because the primary songwriter is different. In the original lineup, it was Chris DeGarmo and Michael Wilton writing most of the music, with Tate and DeGarmo doing lyrics and melodies.

In the non-original lineup stuff, Tate does ALL the lyrics and melodies, and the music is written by whatever writer is working with Tate. So it doesn't sound like a natural progression at all. Not always terrible, some stuff is very good, but it doesn't really sound like the same band, musically, for the most part.

After the original lineup, I'd recommend these SONGS:

Q2k

Howl
Liquid Sky
Right Side of My Mind
When the Rain Comes...
Breakdown
Sacred Ground

Operation: Mindcrime II

I'm American
The Hands
Hostage (this track actually was supposed to be for Tribe, and is the only song on Mindcrime II that does not have Jason Slater co-writing it -- the difference between the Tribe demo and this finished product is that court room drama sound effects were added, and Michael Wilton's original, fast-paced, ripping solo was replaced by this harmonized mid-tempo one, recorded by Mike Stone, which isn't nearly as good).
Murderer
Fear City Slide
One Foot in Hell

American Soldier

At 30,000 Ft.
A Dead Man's Words
The Killer
Man Down!

>>>>>>>>But my overall Queensryche recommendation is to buy all the original lineup stuff first, and if you want to continue, sample the other stuff and buy accordingly. Like I said, there is some good music on the non-original lineup Queensryche records...but it IS different, since the songwriter is completely different.

[Nick]

I really like it, a step up from even the better parts of Mindcrime II.

[bosk1]

What's the consensus on American Soldier? I've yet to hear it.

I like it a lot.  Strong album.  Ironically, the only real problem I have with it is that Geoff's vocals on a couple of songs are subpar.  Otherwise, to me, all the songs would rate up there with the strong and mid-quality songs from Tribe, and without any real clunkers whatsoever.  Best complete album they've put out since Chris left the band, and that includes Tribe.  Samsara has considerably soured on the album since it came out, so pay no mind to his slagging it off.   

[Nick]

In fact, when it comes to Queensryche, if there was one person to disregard, it would probably be Samsara.

[Samsara]

In fact, when it comes to Queensryche, if there was one person to disregard, it would probably be Samsara.

Hopefully the person knows you're kidding. 

My write-up above is pretty good to give anyone a good idea.

[Samsara]

Samsara has considerably soured on the album since it came out, so pay no mind to his slagging it off.   

Not true at all. I don't like it after Man Down! I stand by my opinion that it's a good album, up through Man Down! It doesn't sound like QUeensryche all the time, but just as a piece of music, it's good up until that point.

[Nick]

Don't worry, anyone with over 100 posts on here knows what the tard emoticon means.

[Samsara]

Don't worry, anyone with over 100 posts on here knows what the tard emoticon means.

Oh, that's right, this emoticon, right?



   

[skydivingninja]

I actually was fine with American Soldier when I heard it the first time.  The second and third times were complete crap.  I will agree that the old QR stuff is incredible, though I've yet to pick up Promised Land, which seems to be one of everyone's favorites.

[Silver Tears]

Wow thanks for the detailed write up, that's really useful! 

I've done some digging and turns out my brother has a lot of the albums from the original lineup so I'll be checking those out soon.

I listened to Empire earlier today and it sounds promising but it didn't grab me like Operation Mindcrime did. I'll have to give it another go though; I was busy trying to wrap my head round some chemistry so I wasn't paying much attention to the music. 

[Samsara]

Wow thanks for the detailed write up, that's really useful! 

I've done some digging and turns out my brother has a lot of the albums from the original lineup so I'll be checking those out soon.

I listened to Empire earlier today and it sounds promising but it didn't grab me like Operation Mindcrime did. I'll have to give it another go though; I was busy trying to wrap my head round some chemistry so I wasn't paying much attention to the music. 

You're welcome. Enjoy discovering the original lineup. All those records have a lot to offer.

[KevShmev]

I would say, unless you go bonkers over most of the material from the EP till PL, I wouldn't bother wasting your time with anything post-1994.  And even then, I wouldn't waste your time. 

[King Postwhore]

I know a lot of metalheads don't like HITNF, but I liked that they went for a stylistic change. Ithe album has good hooks.

[Samsara]

I know a lot of metalheads don't like HITNF, but I liked that they went for a stylistic change. Ithe album has good hooks.

It does, and it has a lot of really good guitar work. The album is not a favorite by any stretch, but it has some really good elements to it. It's just not a metal album. It's more hard rock with a stripped down/grungish flair...something most bands in 1995-1997 were doing. QR was a little late on that train, and frankly, should have never went THAT far. They stripped away what made them distinct.

[King Postwhore]

I know a lot of metalheads don't like HITNF, but I liked that they went for a stylistic change. Ithe album has good hooks.

It does, and it has a lot of really good guitar work. The album is not a favorite by any stretch, but it has some really good elements to it. It's just not a metal album. It's more hard rock with a stripped down/grungish flair...something most bands in 1995-1997 were doing. QR was a little late on that train, and frankly, should have never went THAT far. They stripped away what made them distinct.

Bands with longevity that aspire to stretch their limits do albums like HITNF, like DT or Rush.  Let's be honest all bands are influenced by the times and most fans want a certain era of a band.  For me, it's ok to swing and miss once in a while.

[Samsara]

I know a lot of metalheads don't like HITNF, but I liked that they went for a stylistic change. Ithe album has good hooks.

It does, and it has a lot of really good guitar work. The album is not a favorite by any stretch, but it has some really good elements to it. It's just not a metal album. It's more hard rock with a stripped down/grungish flair...something most bands in 1995-1997 were doing. QR was a little late on that train, and frankly, should have never went THAT far. They stripped away what made them distinct.

Bands with longevity that aspire to stretch their limits do albums like HITNF, like DT or Rush.  Let's be honest all bands are influenced by the times and most fans want a certain era of a band.  For me, it's ok to swing and miss once in a while.

Agreed. Unfortunately, other than Tribe (which was only really 3/4 of the way finished, since it was missing Hostage and Justified, and they slapped that dumb ass Losing Mycrap song on there by Stone), HITNF was one miss that snowballed into the band never being the same again.

[King Postwhore]

Well personally think that the snowball started when Chris DeGarmo left.  He was the engine for the band.  i remember seeing them for the first time opening for Kiss on the Animalize tour in 1984 and was BLOWN away and had to go out and by The Warning right away.  Nobody sounded like them at the time.

[Samsara]

Well personally think that the snowball started when Chris DeGarmo left.  He was the engine for the band.  i remember seeing them for the first time opening for Kiss on the Animalize tour in 1984 and was BLOWN away and had to go out and by The Warning right away.  Nobody sounded like them at the time.

Again, agreed. Chris leaving meant the band's sound left, as he was the one who did 90 percent of their song arrangements, at least half the riffs, and most of the harmonies. Not to mention, he wrote probably half the lyrics and did half the vocal melodies. He was as integral to Queensryche as John Petrucci is to Dream Theater. Without JP, DT wouldn't sound like DT.

But Chris was there for HITNF, and he was there for 2/3 of the Tribe sessions before things imploded.

[Perpetual Change]

Hm.  I think there's a tendency to overestimate what Queensryche would have put out had CD stayed.  In my limited experience with the band, I pretty much consider O:M the peak with Empire-HITNF representing a slow but noticeable ongoing decline in quality.  After CD leaves, the quality pretty much nose dives, and QR turns into a generic hard rock band with some metal/prog tendencies. 

I think DeGarmo might have helped QR continue forging ahead, but judging by half of PL and most of HITNF, I'm not sure if the direction CD could have taken them would have been something I'd want to listen to.  Though I can see how it'd definitely be better than what QR are putting out now... Now that outside studio musicians/songwriters write the band's music, I really doubt QR will put out anything that's not annoyingly generic again.

[bosk1]

PC, I see your point, but I have to disagree a bit. 

As I said about HITNF earlier in the thread:

It's just a very well-written and well-executed album that is consistently good from start to finish.  And to me, Queensryche has always had an interesting character as a band in that they clearly blazed their own trails and had their own sound on one hand.  But on the other, they also always seemed to simultaneously reflect and be influenced by whatever was relevant in the music world at the time of any given album without copying it.  Given where music was going at the time, I think HITNF was the next logical step in the progression of their sound.  It reflected a simpler, more stripped-down sound for Queensryche, but still retained a certain level of layering, depth, and complexity that imparted the long-standing Queensryche signature. 

There really is a lot more going on in that album than you pick up on at first glance, but a lot of it is subtle, understated, and vyer cleverly done.  There is actually quite a bit of complexity to that album, but again, it's a very subtle and different kind of complexity compared to what the band had become known for doing. 

In any case, regardless of what anyone happens to think of HITNF, I have two points:

1.  The writing Chris did on Tribe, to me, showed that he still had quite a bit to offer in the writing department.  There is a lot about that album that feels unfinished, and I think that can be attributed to the fact that (1) it was the first time they had written with Chris for a very long time, and (2) he left before it actually was finished, so a lot of ideas and the songs themselves did not actually have the opportunity to be fully-formed.  Despite that, there are a lot of good things going on there.

2.  Aside from just being a good writer, CDG brought something even more valuable to the table in QR that is missing:  he had a knack for understanding others' ideas, even when they weren't fully fleshed out, and being able to synthesize them and help the band create something from lots of different ideas.  Nobody else in the band has been able to do this, and it really shows.  That is why they have had to have outside writers do a lot of their material and that is why, to me, they sound more like a band that is trying to mimic the QR formula instead of being the QR formula.  After HITNF, they still had some shining moments, but they haven't really sounded like QR through and through, save for some moments on Tribe and maybe some parts of AS where Slater I think really has become better at pulling the real QR sound out of the band.

[TAC]

I liked the idea behind HITNF and was happy to accept a stripped down album from such a grandiose sounding band. My problem is, that other than a few OK songs, it's just really not that good.

[KevShmev]

I liked the idea behind HITNF and was happy to accept a stripped down album from such a grandiose sounding band. My problem is, that other than a few OK songs, it's just really not that good.

Agreed.  It has a few songs I still enjoy from time to time, but the bulk of it is simply not very good.  And I hate the sound of it; the drums sound so flat and lifeless.