« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....  (Read 5595 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SnakeEyes

  • Posts: 2408
  • Gender: Male
  • Conservative Ninja, yet not mute
Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« on: August 07, 2011, 12:44:34 AM »
First of all, these are completely serious questions and I'm in NO WAY trying to start any trouble.  This topic was simply inspired by a thought I just had and thought it might make for some interesting discussion.  Mods, if this turns into a disaster, I apologize in advance.  Hopefully it won't, though.  

1)  How many of you believe that Kevin Moore left DT because of MP?  I ask this because, as an observer to this (like all of us), I can't see another musician not getting along with JP and JM .... or JLB for that matter.  Portnoy seems like he might be a little..... difficult to work with at times.  Pushy, perhaps?  Just a hunch and NOT BASHING.  Thoughts?

2)  Assuming you believe KM left DT because of Portnoy, now that MP is gone......would Kevin return to DT?  Let's say Jordan quit - would Kevin come back without Portnoy?  Purely hypothetical.  It's not going to happen.  Just wondering what you all think.  
Logged
Quote from: Serpentor on January 23, 2009, 01:01:28 PM
Now that Obama has closed Gitmo, when will he turn his attention to the abuses and torturing of the onions that are used to make the angry whopper?

Offline Ħ

  • Posts: 3247
  • Gender: Male
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2011, 12:47:16 AM »
KM left because he didn't like the direction of the music.  He was getting more into electronic ambient stuff.  Have you listened to his solo stuff?  It's on the opposite side of the spectrum as DT.  And remember that Portnoy wasn't really the leader at this point in time, publicity-wise and songwriting-wise.
Logged
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline MasterShakezula

  • Posts: 3733
  • Owes H $10
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2011, 12:49:23 AM »
1) Mike might have had a little to do with it, but by that, I mean VERY little, compared to the main reason, which H covered quite nicely.

2) No.  
Logged

Offline Mosh

  • For I have dined on honeydew!
  • Posts: 3855
  • Gender: Male
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2011, 12:49:50 AM »
KM wasn't interested in prog. so

1: No, but it might've been a factor
2: No because they are still prog and KM is, well, not prog. He seems to be trying to forget he was ever a member of Dream Theater, which I imagine is hard since he wrote the lyrics to their most famous song.
Logged
New Animal Soup scifi space opera for fans of Porcupine Tree, Mastodon, Iron Maiden: Chariots of the Gods

https://animalsoup.bandcamp.com/album/chariots-of-the-gods

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 38940
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2011, 12:50:21 AM »
1.) I only get the impression that KM left because of musical differences. I don't think MP circa 1994 would have been a cause for that level of conflict. MP's control has been much more recent.

2.) I don't see it ever happening. DT has grown along it's own path, as has KM. They're in different places. KM didn't look like he was enjoying himself, and I don't think MP's absence is much of a factor here.
Logged
Quote from: Kotowboy on February 12, 2016, 02:16:07 PM
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Quote from: Mosh on November 12, 2015, 07:50:47 PM
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline SnakeEyes

  • Posts: 2408
  • Gender: Male
  • Conservative Ninja, yet not mute
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2011, 12:50:44 AM »
Yeah.  I guess what I'm wondering is - were JP, JM and LaBrie willing to "experiment" with KM's songs, but maybe Portnoy wasn't?  Not saying this is true, just speculating.  
Logged
Quote from: Serpentor on January 23, 2009, 01:01:28 PM
Now that Obama has closed Gitmo, when will he turn his attention to the abuses and torturing of the onions that are used to make the angry whopper?

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 38940
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2011, 12:56:40 AM »
I think the question approaches the situation with recent MP, and even though we weren't there, I don't think MP would have been as much in control at that time. I'd think that would only have started around SFAM at the earliest, once there were no producers, and the albums were "self" produced.
But up until SFAM, they had outside producers, so I don't think Portnoy had much control over that kind of thing. Maybe they clashed on a personal level, and it was a factor, but I don't think it would have affected the music at that point in a way that drove KM to leave. I think it was all just a personal decision for KM.
Logged
Quote from: Kotowboy on February 12, 2016, 02:16:07 PM
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Quote from: Mosh on November 12, 2015, 07:50:47 PM
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline ReaPsTA

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 11204
  • Gender: Male
  • Addicted to the pain
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2011, 01:08:06 AM »
Quote from: SnakeEyes on August 07, 2011, 12:44:34 AM
1)  How many of you believe that Kevin Moore left DT because of MP?  I ask this because, as an observer to this (like all of us), I can't see another musician not getting along with JP and JM .... or JLB for that matter.  Portnoy seems like he might be a little..... difficult to work with at times.  Pushy, perhaps?  Just a hunch and NOT BASHING.  Thoughts?

2)  Assuming you believe KM left DT because of Portnoy, now that MP is gone......would Kevin return to DT?  Let's say Jordan quit - would Kevin come back without Portnoy?  Purely hypothetical.  It's not going to happen.  Just wondering what you all think.  

1.  KM left DT primarily due to musicaly differences with the band.  While Awake was being made (or maybe right afterwards), he made a group of demos that were already drastically different from the music he was making with DT.

2.  No way he would rejoin.  DT to him is the past.
Logged
Take a chance you may die
Over and over again

Offline Ħ

  • Posts: 3247
  • Gender: Male
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2011, 01:10:21 AM »
I wonder if Kev secretly does listen to DT and think about them often, but just wants to troll DT fans by staying silent about everything.
Logged
"All great works are prepared in the desert, including the redemption of the world. The precursors, the followers, the Master Himself, all obeyed or have to obey one and the same law. Prophets, apostles, preachers, martyrs, pioneers of knowledge, inspired artists in every art, ordinary men and the Man-God, all pay tribute to loneliness, to the life of silence, to the night." - A. G. Sertillanges

Offline MasterShakezula

  • Posts: 3733
  • Owes H $10
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2011, 01:22:00 AM »
Or he could be The Silent Man...
Logged

Offline CrimsonSunrise

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 3687
  • Gender: Male
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2011, 01:25:40 AM »
Logged

Offline Zook

  • Evil Incarnate
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 14160
  • Gender: Male
  • Take My Hand
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2011, 04:16:45 AM »
Do you think KM is embarrassed he was in DT the same way Kevin Bacon is about being in Friday The 13th?
Logged

Offline MasterShakezula

  • Posts: 3733
  • Owes H $10
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2011, 04:23:01 AM »
I think its more like Robin Williams leaving behind roles like Genie to be a more serious and dramatic actor.  Though I still say Genie was his best role.
Logged

Offline Metabog

  • Life Inhibitor
  • Posts: 653
  • Gender: Male
  • I like big biquads and I cannot lie.
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2011, 04:33:06 AM »
I like to think MP wasn't as pushy back then, but rather gained this trait recently/around Octavarium. I remember considering him one of my musical heroes, but then that kind of started declining around the time of SC.
Logged

Offline nikatapi

  • Posts: 1641
  • Gender: Male
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2011, 04:36:56 AM »
1. I think it has more to do with KM feeling distant to the direction of the music. What really makes me wonder is how he lost communication with all the others and especially JP since they had been friends for some years.
2. KM would never come back to DT, he just doesn't like this kind of music anymore.
Logged

Offline Knguro

  • Posts: 619
  • Gender: Male
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2011, 04:38:21 AM »
Oh God what a thread! People just please stay calm and everything will be OK!


1. Could be because of music differences taking a personal level between both of them. Once again COULD be.

2. Mmmm No.
Logged
...Here before me is my soul, I'm learning to live...
Quote from: BlobVanDam on April 19, 2013, 12:15:36 AM
And your English is just fine. :tup

Offline ?

  • Apparently the best username
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 11742
  • Gender: Male
  • Less=Moore, Even Less=Wilson
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2011, 07:19:47 AM »
1. Basically what has been said already: he lost his interest in this style of music. Kevin has also mentioned in interviews that he doesn't enjoy playing live or touring, so that was another factor.
2. No, unless DT starts playing music in vein of Kevin's projects and stops playing live apart from some one-off gigs.
Logged

Offline wasteland

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8013
  • Gender: Male
  • Jay Beckenstein was in Spyro Gyra, right?
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2011, 07:33:08 AM »
1. Kevin Moore grew distant from the musical path DT was following on his own feet, but we there's no way to tell whether MP's reaction to this prompted KM to leave the band or not. What is sure in my view is that his relations with the other members (and therefore including MP) had somehow became strained by the time he left, it is not that easy to severe bonds like KM did when you are still in good terms with people. Anyway, I am quite convinced that something definitely happend between Mike and Kevin. I don't really know if that was before or after KM left, but I feel that the whole negative attitude towards Kevin shown in the past by our former drummer roots deeper in time than the couple of refused invitations we have been told about.

2. No. I can see Kevin making a guest appearence sometime in the future (mid age crisis?), but there is no way he is joining the band again.
Logged
Quote from: Scorpion on May 11, 2013, 06:20:51 AM
:slayer: Somewhere, over the wasteland..... bootlegs fly :slayer:
MoraWintersoul is the BEST person.
- Marco

Offline Guitalguy

  • Posts: 213
  • Gender: Male
  • Blackness awakens Visions come alive
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2011, 07:33:48 AM »
1. According to the things I've read it was because he was unhappy with their musical direction, and that he wasn't that into their music anymore. I have no clue how MP was back then, but I wouldn't think he left because of him.

2. No. And Jordan would never quit, unless he had an arm amputated or something. And in that case he'd just build a robot arm even faster than the one he's got already.
Logged

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 53216
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2011, 07:55:39 AM »
1. No.

2. No.
Logged
Quote from: BlobVanDam on December 11, 2014, 09:19:46 PM
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline millahh

  • Retired Pedantic Bastard
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • *****
  • Posts: 3800
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP Mark
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2011, 08:29:45 AM »
I think you've got your cause and effect backwards...my understanding is that MP being the "control" guy resulted in part from the vacuum when KM left, rather than KM leaving because of MP's controlling approach.  I get the idea that power and creative control was evenly distributed throughout the band prior to KM leaving, but then the balance started shifting to all of the control being concentrated with MP (and to a lesser degree, JP).

I don't think KM had a specific aversion to MP...bear in mind that MP did play on the first to OSI albums, and KM stated that the tension between the two approaches was good for the music.

No way in hell would KM come back.  He seems to go out of his way to avoid "wheedly whee" music.  I can't think of a single OSI song that has a featured guitar or keyboard solo in it.
Logged
Quote from: parallax
WHEN WILL YOU ADRESS MY MONKEY ARGUMENT???? NEVER???? THAT\' WHAT I FIGURED.:lol

Offline FiberglassMoon

  • Posts: 195
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2011, 08:42:36 AM »
I can't confirm this but I think I remember hearing that KM actually thinks that conflict between people isn't necessarily a bad thing when writing music, and that it can actually help make it better.  So I doubt that he would have even considered leaving because of his differences with MP....that is if he was still interested in DT's music.

MP on the other hand, seems like a guy that needs to get along with the people he's working with really well to write good music with them.

Regardless, KM would never come back to the band.  Hell, he hardly acknowledges that he was ever even in DT
Logged

Offline Mebert78

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2489
  • Gender: Male
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2011, 09:17:37 AM »
I think that KM left because of reasons not related to the band members.  Since leaving DT, we've come to see that he is a free spirit and likes to travel and do his own thing.  So I'm sure the demands of a increasingly successful band took their toll on him and was unappealing in some ways.  Although I'm sure there was some conflict with MP in those early DT days, because I believe in the "Lifting Shadows" book MP said that working with Kevin in OSI in 2003 was like "the same old shit as when he was in DT."  So there was clearly some conflict.  But despite the MP conflicts, I think it was the music machine and need to be his own person that really caused him to leave.  But it's one of those topics you can speculate about over and over and we'll never really know the truth because Kevin would never say something negative or start controversy.

As for him working with DT, I would say no.  But I wouldn't close the door on a guest appearance at a show down the road.  It's always possible.  Sure, he's said no to that before, but maybe he felt the timing wasn't right or whatever.  He did a one-off appearance with Fates Warning in 2004, so he does do those sort of things.  And he and JP were best friends as teenagers, so you never know what might happen if the lines of communication begin to flourish.
Logged
An unofficial online community for fans of keyboardist Kevin Moore (ex-Dream Theater, Chroma Key, OSI):

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

  • The Original Unseasoned Fan
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 6986
  • Gender: Male
  • The Original Unseasoned Fan
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2011, 09:38:39 AM »
It's kind of crazy to me that JP and JR have been coming up with most of the music the past few years, and then MP would always tell them what to do with it. If I were them I would start getting annoyed after a while. :lol

Just goes to show how lacking in ego those two are. It's actually amazing, especially considering that they are both masters of their craft.
Logged
:TOX: <-- My own emoticon!

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

  • pr0nman extraordinaire
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 11581
  • Gender: Male
  • Hostages love me
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2011, 09:44:26 AM »
Quote from: TheOutlawXanadu on August 07, 2011, 09:38:39 AM
It's kind of crazy to me that JP and JR have been coming up with most of the music the past few years, and then MP would always tell them what to do with it. If I were them I would start getting annoyed after a while. :lol

Just goes to show how lacking in ego those two are. It's actually amazing, especially considering that they are both masters of their craft.
Yeah, MP always stood to me as an "arranger" in that way.

And with the Kevin Moore thing, I really don't know if Portnoy was the reason. Back then, he wasn't all like "I'M OCD LOL!" like he is today (I think). He was a young musician with a great career in front of him, and I can't imagine him doing most of his modern nuances back then.
Logged
Quote from: TioJorge
MAN FUCK YOU KUJA.
Quote from: hefdaddy42
The Darklord is amazing

Offline WDMode

  • Posts: 7
  • Gender: Male
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2011, 09:56:01 AM »
I'd love to se KM colaborating on some lyrics... One can only wish...
Logged
\"Most rock journalism is people who can\'t write, interviewing people who can\'t talk, for people who can\'t read.\"<br />Frank Zappa

Offline YtseJam

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 740
  • Gender: Male
  • Your mom
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2011, 10:40:41 AM »
Logged

Offline fadetoblackdude7

  • Posts: 2542
  • Gender: Male
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2011, 12:36:40 PM »
Not only did KM not like the direction of the music, he also didn't like touring.
Logged

Offline ACID_FOX

  • DTF's Offical Arctic Monkeys Fanboy.
  • Posts: 1408
  • Gender: Male
  • But You're Just Fiction, And I'm A Twisted Boy.
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2011, 12:43:37 PM »
Logged
I only like ablums that I can xanascholithoun.

Offline wammabe

  • Posts: 418
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2011, 03:41:56 PM »
From my understanding, MP was into drugs and alcohol. If I were the keyboardist in DT and MP openly drank and did shit like that, that would probably make me want to leave. If anything though, anything MP related would only be a small influence to the final decision that Kevin Moore took.
Logged

Offline AcidLameLTE

  • Nae deal pal
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 11134
  • Gender: Male
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2011, 03:43:03 PM »
Ignoring the post above, I think it would be no to both of those answers.
Logged

Offline MetropolisxPt1

  • Posts: 550
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2011, 03:48:06 PM »
Quote from: Mebert78 on August 07, 2011, 09:17:37 AM
I think that KM left because of reasons not related to the band members.  Since leaving DT, we've come to see that he is a free spirit and likes to travel and do his own thing.  So I'm sure the demands of a increasingly successful band took their toll on him and was unappealing in some ways.  Although I'm sure there was some conflict with MP in those early DT days, because I believe in the "Lifting Shadows" book MP said that working with Kevin in OSI in 2003 was like "the same old shit as when he was in DT."  So there was clearly some conflict.  But despite the MP conflicts, I think it was the music machine and need to be his own person that really caused him to leave.  But it's one of those topics you can speculate about over and over and we'll never really know the truth because Kevin would never say something negative or start controversy.

As for him working with DT, I would say no.  But I wouldn't close the door on a guest appearance at a show down the road.  It's always possible.  Sure, he's said no to that before, but maybe he felt the timing wasn't right or whatever.  He did a one-off appearance with Fates Warning in 2004, so he does do those sort of things.  And he and JP were best friends as teenagers, so you never know what might happen if the lines of communication begin to flourish.
I think the conflict between KM and MP with OSI has to do with Kevin wanting a more pulled drum feel and Mp wanted to do his own thing.




Km return live with 1st official DT performance of SDV?
Logged

Offline SnakeEyes

  • Posts: 2408
  • Gender: Male
  • Conservative Ninja, yet not mute
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2011, 04:04:43 PM »
So, the general consensus is.... NO to both questions.  Okay.  Thanks to all of you for keeping a topic like this civil.  It could have turned into WW3 and it didn't!  :lol 
Logged
Quote from: Serpentor on January 23, 2009, 01:01:28 PM
Now that Obama has closed Gitmo, when will he turn his attention to the abuses and torturing of the onions that are used to make the angry whopper?

Offline Super Dude

  • Hero of Prog
  • DTF.com Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16265
  • Gender: Male
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2011, 05:10:20 PM »
Quote from: SnakeEyes on August 07, 2011, 04:04:43 PM
So, the general consensus is.... NO to both questions.  Okay.  Thanks to all of you for keeping a topic like this civil.  It could have turned into WW3 and it didn't!  :lol  

Who said it wouldn't???  Time to heat up this bitch!

HEY EVERYBODY: KM > JR

(Nah, I'm jk)
Logged
Quote from: bosk1
As frequently happens, Super Dude nailed it.
:superdude:

Offline wammabe

  • Posts: 418
Re: Two questions that will probably raise hell, but here goes.....
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2011, 05:24:44 PM »
Quote from: Super Dude on August 07, 2011, 05:10:20 PM
Quote from: SnakeEyes on August 07, 2011, 04:04:43 PM
So, the general consensus is.... NO to both questions.  Okay.  Thanks to all of you for keeping a topic like this civil.  It could have turned into WW3 and it didn't!  :lol  

Who said it wouldn't???  Time to heat up this bitch!

HEY EVERYBODY: KM > JR

(Nah, I'm jk)

RRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:(

 :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored :censored
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
« previous next »