This is unbelievably horrifying

[MasterShakezula]

Here's a question for everyone that is kinda within the topic that could probably make for good discussion;

What do you think should be the age of consent?

[Adami]

Here's a question for everyone that is kinda within the topic that could probably make for good discussion;

What do you think should be the age of consent?

See that's a loaded question. If someone gives an honest answer and it's below what other people think it should be, they will be attacked and called disgusting, sick, immoral, etc.

[Fuzzboy]

16 sounds like a good age to me, I think. I also think it's a good age for alcohol and tobacco purchasing as well.

[Adami]

16 sounds like a good age to me, I think. I also think it's a good age for alcohol and tobacco purchasing as well.

While I disagree about this being the age of consent, any lower number will be met with hostility here, so I doubt you'll hear one.

[7StringedBeast]

I agree that 16 is a decent age for it.  I don't think that means 16 year old's should be involved with porn or having sex with 25 year-olds either though.

[MasterShakezula]

I have no intentions of attacking anyone or calling them negative terms or anything.  I just think it would be interesting to see what everyone's view of an ideal age of consent is.  You should have no fear in putting your view out, Adami.  I won't judge you, and I doubt others here would.  This is a place where we can put our views out and feel safe/insulated.  

I think the age 18 works good and fine, though if it was 17 or 16, I wouldn't be offended.  Though anything too much lower than 16 may be a bit too low an age to be doing it, in terms of metal maturity/responsibility, IMO, but I'm happy to hear someone's reasons for feeling that a lower age would work.  

[chknptpie]

Even someone at the age of 16 might not understand the consequences of being involved in porn. I don't think an age is the issue, but the maturity.


For those that don't agree with prosecuting people for looking at child pornography, do you also disagree with this?
https://www.aspca.org/Blog/breaking-news-new-york-governor-signs-animal-fighting-bill.aspx

"Governor Andrew Cuomo signed into law a bill that will make attending a dog fight or cockfight in New York State a misdemeanor offense"

Those people who attend a dog/cock fight are also helping to support it. I see it similar with child pornography. Those are are "enjoying" it are supporting it.

[El Barto]

Age of consent is a silly notion, IMO.  As I've stated many times before, there are young girls perfectly capable of making rational, informed* decisions about who, what, how, why and where to fuck.  There are plenty of college girls who are completely ill-equipped to make rational decisions regarding same.  No two people are the same, and that's something that ages of consent intentionally gloss over in favor of what the majority feels isn't icky.

Furthermore, the American aspect of it is entirely dictated by Christian guilt.  We've put such a stigma on getting laid in this country that the mere thought of teenagers wanting to get off is automatically met with horror.  Spain recently raised their AoC to 14,  and I haven't heard of any major issues they have going on.  A big chunk of the world has a much more relaxed attitude towards sexuality,  and looking at how things have turned out over here,  I'd say that they're on to something.


*Sadly,  the informed part seems to be one of the things that the Right in this country want to do everything possible to do away with.  

[El Barto]

Even someone at the age of 16 might not understand the consequences of being involved in porn. I don't think an age is the issue, but the maturity.


For those that don't agree with prosecuting people for looking at child pornography, do you also disagree with this?
https://www.aspca.org/Blog/breaking-news-new-york-governor-signs-animal-fighting-bill.aspx

"Governor Andrew Cuomo signed into law a bill that will make attending a dog fight or cockfight in New York State a misdemeanor offense"

Those people who attend a dog/cock fight are also helping to support it. I see it similar with child pornography. Those are are "enjoying" it are supporting it.

As I've stated here,  I don't see a necessary correlation between actor/observer in child pornography.  I don't think supply/demand is in play.  Dog/cock fighting is a completely different story.  We're talking about a commercial enterprise, where the observers directly support the actors.  To be fair, the people organizing and participating should be punished more severely, IMO.   

[Adami]

I, obviously agree.



Even if somehow the cops found a way to make sure no CP images or recordings ever went public again...........would sexual abuse stop? Of course not. Because the sexual abuse is about the person, it's not because there's a market for it.


Unless some of you are saying that you're cool living in a world with sexual abuse as long as it's not recorded in any way.

[chknptpie]

Even someone at the age of 16 might not understand the consequences of being involved in porn. I don't think an age is the issue, but the maturity.


For those that don't agree with prosecuting people for looking at child pornography, do you also disagree with this?
https://www.aspca.org/Blog/breaking-news-new-york-governor-signs-animal-fighting-bill.aspx

"Governor Andrew Cuomo signed into law a bill that will make attending a dog fight or cockfight in New York State a misdemeanor offense"

Those people who attend a dog/cock fight are also helping to support it. I see it similar with child pornography. Those are are "enjoying" it are supporting it.

As I've stated here,  I don't see a necessary correlation between actor/observer in child pornography.  I don't think supply/demand is in play.  Dog/cock fighting is a completely different story.  We're talking about a commercial enterprise, where the observers directly support the actors.  To be fair, the people organizing and participating should be punished more severely, IMO.  

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think child pornography is basically a commercial enterprise where the observer's want creates a demand that they themselves or someone will fill.

[Adami]

So you believe that if people didn't want to see videos of sexual abuse, that abuse would stop? Or just the recording of it?

[7StringedBeast]

Abuse is going to go on.  That's not the point here.  We are talking about ending child porn.  Obviously everyone wants child abuse to go away forever because its a horrible thing.  Just because abuse will continue does not mean we shouldn't end child porn.  The two aren't really equated in that kind of a way.  I don't see why anyone in here is actually justifying child porn and are actually defending it.  It's pretty damn shocking.

[Adami]

Abuse is going to go on.  That's not the point here.  We are talking about ending child porn.  Obviously everyone wants child abuse to go away forever because its a horrible thing.  Just because abuse will continue does not mean we shouldn't end child porn.  The two aren't really equated in that kind of a way.  I don't see why anyone in here is actually justifying child porn and are actually defending it.  It's pretty damn shocking.

Assumign we're talking about that abusive child porn stuff, then it's just recorded abuse. Why is the recording awful, but the abuse itself is off topic? I just don't get it. It sounds like you'd be happier in a world where you can pretend this stuff doesn't happen simply because there won't be recordings of it.


How is the recording of an act more important than the act itself? Why bother trying to end the watching of the recording of an act that you seem to have desire to end? I ask this because the recording of the act has already led to people being punished for the act itself.

[7StringedBeast]

Abuse is going to go on.  That's not the point here.  We are talking about ending child porn.  Obviously everyone wants child abuse to go away forever because its a horrible thing.  Just because abuse will continue does not mean we shouldn't end child porn.  The two aren't really equated in that kind of a way.  I don't see why anyone in here is actually justifying child porn and are actually defending it.  It's pretty damn shocking.

Assumign we're talking about that abusive child porn stuff, then it's just recorded abuse. Why is the recording awful, but the abuse itself is off topic? I just don't get it. It sounds like you'd be happier in a world where you can pretend this stuff doesn't happen simply because there won't be recordings of it.


How is the recording of an act more important than the act itself? Why bother trying to end the watching of the recording of an act that you seem to have desire to end? I ask this because the recording of the act has already led to people being punished for the act itself.

Honestly I have no clue wtf you are talking about.  I think I've made it perfectly clear how much I am against child abuse, child sexual abuse, and the filming of it.  I want it all to end.  All of it.  How have I not made that perfectly clear in this thread?

[Adami]

Well then you have 2 options as it were.


1. People continue to commit sexual abuse, but recording it etc is never done. No one gets caught really.

2. People continue to commit sexual abuse, and some of these people are dumb enough to record themselves doing it and trading it and end up getting caught.


Why wouldn't you want these people caught? Obviously it would be great if it just went away, or we had better ways of catching them........but if they're dumb enough to put recordings of themselves doing it online.........that's full proof evidence right there. Why would you want to eliminate that evidence?

[7StringedBeast]

Because obviously there is an under ground economy for this material that is thriving.  It's perpetuating it.  Thus perpetuating more abuse.  Letting this shit go on and letting people gather this material just to catch them is a really stupid way of ending crime.  That's like saying, oh if we put out some girls at night at a really dangerous street, and see a few get killed, we'll really be able to catch that murderer.  Sure a few girls have to die, but who cares cause we will get the guy.  That's not how it works and you know it.

[El Barto]

Honestly I have no clue wtf you are talking about.  I think I've made it perfectly clear how much I am against child abuse, child sexual abuse, and the filming of it.  I want it all to end.  All of it.  How have I not made that perfectly clear in this thread?

And to this end, I agree with you.  You suggest that I'm defending child pornography, and that's really somewhat of a reach.  Like you,  I'm opposed to people abusing children, and therefore necessarily filming the act.  Where we disagree is that you seem to think people who merely download it should be vilified as much as the people who create it.  I think they should be the very least of society's concern. 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think child pornography is basically a commercial enterprise where the observer's want creates a demand that they themselves or someone will fill.

For this to be valid, you'd have to think that there is somebody out there who, despite finding it wrong and unappealing,  decides to diddle his niece for financial or social gain.  Does this really seem plausible to you?

[Adami]

Because obviously there is an under ground economy for this material that is thriving.  It's perpetuating it.  Thus perpetuating more abuse.  Letting this shit go on and letting people gather this material just to catch them is a really stupid way of ending crime.  That's like saying, oh if we put out some girls at night at a really dangerous street, and see a few get killed, we'll really be able to catch that murderer.  Sure a few girls have to die, but who cares cause we will get the guy.  That's not how it works and you know it.

Actually that's not the same in the least.


Right now child porn IS illegal. Hasn't stopped it. 70 something people or whatever just got busted. Will that stop it? Of course not. The only solution is going after just about everyone who HAS child porn on their comp. That would involve gross invasions of privacy and what would be the end result? Filling the jails with hundreds of people who happen to like looking at pictures or videos of horrible things, and a few hundred maybe people who committed those acts. Imagine you have a generally good person, never does anything wrong, but happens to get off to pictures of 7 year old girls naked dancing the macarena, those are the people who should fill our jails?

I'm not saying it should be encouraged. But punish the people committing the acts, don't fill our jails with average every day guys with weird fetishes that you don't like.

[chknptpie]

Well then you have 2 options as it were.


1. People continue to commit sexual abuse, but recording it etc is never done. No one gets caught really.

2. People continue to commit sexual abuse, and some of these people are dumb enough to record themselves doing it and trading it and end up getting caught. and prosecuted for any involvement (in the act or enjoyment of the act)


Why wouldn't you want these people caught? Obviously it would be great if it just went away, or we had better ways of catching them........but if they're dumb enough to put recordings of themselves doing it online.........that's full proof evidence right there. Why would you want to eliminate that evidence?

This is where I believe my difference lies.

[Adami]

You can't prosecute people for enjoying things that other people do. That would be an awful law.

[chknptpie]

You can't prosecute people for enjoying things that other people do. That would be an awful law.

Thats not what I'm stating, but okay.

[El Barto]

That's how I took it as well.  Would you care to explain it, then?

[Adami]

You can't prosecute people for enjoying things that other people do. That would be an awful law.

Thats not what I'm stating, but okay.

You literally just stated that people should be prosecuted for enjoying the act, though not committing it.

[7StringedBeast]

When it comes to watching/spreading the rape of young children, I highly disagree.  Instead of jerking to it, you should be reporting to the police and let them know where it came from.

You act as if child porn isn't actually a crime.  Murder hasn't stopped and that's illegal.  

For the record, I have stated before in this thread that the people who just like 12 year olds posing is a lot different than the people getting into the rape of children on video.  The people who watch that and perpetuate it and act on it are higher up on the scale of awfulness.  I think obviously that committing the act is much worse than downloading it, but downloading it and spreading it are high offenses in my book as well.  They should be reported to police, not enjoyed.

[Adami]

For the sake of avoiding confusion, can we stop using the words child porn here and say child abuse recordings or something? Just so I know we're not talking about a 12 year old girl pissing on a cow or anything like that.


But to that end, 7SB you have a point. If someone finds a video of a child being abused or actually harmed they should very much report it. The problem is, if they report it........won't they immediately be arrested for having it in the first place? Kind of a catch 22.

[chknptpie]

You can't prosecute people for enjoying things that other people do. That would be an awful law.

Thats not what I'm stating, but okay.

You literally just stated that people should be prosecuted for enjoying the act, though not committing it.

Fine, the enjoyment of an illegal act that I consider to be as traumatic and disgusting as child molestation should be a chargeable offense on some level. What the level is, I do not know.  

[Adami]

You can't prosecute people for enjoying things that other people do. That would be an awful law.

Thats not what I'm stating, but okay.

You literally just stated that people should be prosecuted for enjoying the act, though not committing it.

Fine, the enjoyment of an illegal act that I consider to be as traumatic and disgusting as child molestation should be a chargeable offense on some level. What the level is, I do not know.  

What about enjoying mock child abuse? Like a cartoon or whatever of a child being viciously beaten and raped. Is that ok? Well.......not ok, but not punishable?

[theliloutkast]

You can't prosecute people for enjoying things that other people do. That would be an awful law.

Thats not what I'm stating, but okay.

You literally just stated that people should be prosecuted for enjoying the act, though not committing it.

Supply and demand, if people didn't want to enjoy child porn then children wouldn't be molested for the intention of recording.

[Adami]

You can't prosecute people for enjoying things that other people do. That would be an awful law.

Thats not what I'm stating, but okay.

You literally just stated that people should be prosecuted for enjoying the act, though not committing it.

Supply and demand, if people didn't want to enjoy child porn then children wouldn't be molested for the intention of recording.

I hate to derail the conversation back into this, but dude welcome to the human race.....children are always going to be molested. Almost every single female friend I have (including my family members) have all been sexually molested (yea, I was pretty damn shocked actually). It's not going to go away ever. And I doubt the numbers would change much if it stopped being recorded.

[El Barto]

You can't prosecute people for enjoying things that other people do. That would be an awful law.

Thats not what I'm stating, but okay.

You literally just stated that people should be prosecuted for enjoying the act, though not committing it.

Fine, the enjoyment of an illegal act that I consider to be as traumatic and disgusting as child molestation should be a chargeable offense on some level. What the level is, I do not know.  

I thought the Hollywood Bank Heist shootout was totally badass.  If they had it on DVD I'd buy it.  I'd consider an hour's worth of shooting cops and civvies to be pretty damned traumatic.  Wouldn't you?

But to that end, 7SB you have a point. If someone finds a video of a child being abused or actually harmed they should very much report it. The problem is, if they report it........won't they immediately be arrested for having it in the first place? Kind of a catch 22.

It's certainly happened before.  The hysteria that persists around the subject makes it something you absolutely don't want to get involved with.  Furthermore,  I suspect there isn't any CP out there that the cops aren't aware of.  They're looking for it alot harder than you are.  

[chknptpie]

You can't prosecute people for enjoying things that other people do. That would be an awful law.

Thats not what I'm stating, but okay.

You literally just stated that people should be prosecuted for enjoying the act, though not committing it.

Fine, the enjoyment of an illegal act that I consider to be as traumatic and disgusting as child molestation should be a chargeable offense on some level. What the level is, I do not know.  

I thought the Hollywood Bank Heist shootout was totally badass.  If they had it on DVD I'd buy it.  I'd consider an hour's worth of shooting cops and civvies to be pretty damned traumatic.  Wouldn't you?

This is why I specifically wrote it out the way I did. It is not intended for debate in other circumstances. It's just my opinion that I have stated to agree to disagree.

[theliloutkast]

Yeah, I was molested too buddy. No, not a single person recorded it. However, allowing people to gain pleasure from the extreme pain of children should not be an act condoned by this country, or any person who can wake up and look at themselves in the mirror. Anyone who enjoys watching the torture of children is not just a person who "enjoys what he enjoys". They are someone with inability to function properly in our society, which is exactly why we have laws.

[Adami]

And this, like all other matters should be dealt with in a logical rational fashion, not one dictated by emotions.

[theliloutkast]

It is as simple as this, the enjoyment of watching the suffering of others is not an act that should be enjoyed. If someone has to go through what I had to go through just for some sick freak to have sexual pleasure, it just, it isn't right.