Overrated DT Songs

[FlyingBIZKIT]

There are some interesting choices here.

[RaiseTheKnife]

I agree that of all the underrated songs, Blind Faith is overrated.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

IMHO, Blind Faith is a top 10 song. . The whole Six Degrees album is in my top 30 songs

[bloop]

Blind Faith seems to be a song that's "cool" to say is underrated. That being said, it's a fantastic song.

[krands85]

Having a look at the top 10 in the DTF song ratings thread, I would say:

Trial of Tears
6°
Home
Voices

I like all those songs, but none of them are near my top 10. Voices is probably about 20th, but the rest don't make my top 25.

[ishak540m]

Internationally: PMU - not sure why it struck a note with everyone at the time
Hardcore fanbase: SDV - for me it's on the same level as Vacant - quoting other parts of songs and making it's own version of them.  I don't really understand why it's so popular.

[wammabe]

Internationally: PMU - not sure why it struck a note with everyone at the time
Hardcore fanbase: SDV - for me it's on the same level as Vacant - quoting other parts of songs and making it's own version of them.  I don't really understand why it's so popular.

Don't know why anyone would say that about Space Dye Vest.  For me, its piano melodies are far more memorable, the lyrics are extremely beautiful, and the song feels more complete as a whole.

[GasparXR]

I think he meant Strange Deja-Vu.

[MetropolisxPt1]

I think he meant Strange Deja-Vu.

I hope not because I don't even think strange deja-vu could be considered overrated.

[Elite]

*flameshield up*

Learning to Live
Really, it is a good song, and one of their better songs, but there are songs, imho, that deserve more praise.

The Glass Prison
Wankery, annoying and overall just bad. I don't like it.

The Count of Tuscany
Instrumentally a good song and an asbolute great song live, but the lyrics ruin it, for me at least.

Blind Faith
I don't really know, never really got it I guess. The other songs on SDOIT disc 1 are imho much better (save TGP). Although the unison is one of their better ones.

In The Name of God
I just hate this song. Not insteresting at all. Cool groove, but to me, it's just 13 minutes of whatthehellareyoudoingDT?

Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
The seperate parts are better than the whole I think, as a whole it feels slightly disconnected. Also I don't find myself listening to it all the way through.

There, I said it.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

My list-
Learning To Live - Overall it's a good song. If you gave it better vocal melodies, it's a great song. But I feel the verse and chorus melodies are among the weakest on the album, and when you put that song up against the rest of the album, I see it as the weaker link, and not the strongest. It's not a bad song, but relatively speaking, I've never understand why it's considered the standout. The instrumental sections are fantastic, but the vocal sections let it down imo, so I consider it overrated.

My exact thoughts.

[ishak540m]

Internationally: PMU - not sure why it struck a note with everyone at the time
Hardcore fanbase: SDV - for me it's on the same level as Vacant - quoting other parts of songs and making it's own version of them.  I don't really understand why it's so popular.

Don't know why anyone would say that about Space Dye Vest.  For me, its piano melodies are far more memorable, the lyrics are extremely beautiful, and the song feels more complete as a whole.

As far as lyrics, personally I think death/illness is a more powerful topic.

[LKap13]

In The Name of God
I just hate this song. Not insteresting at all. Cool groove, but to me, it's just 13 minutes of whatthehellareyoudoingDT?

Oh yea, I forgot about that one.

[senecadawg2]

Just my opinion, but I think it is just plain wrong to suggest ACOS is overrated.

Now songs that I do think are overrated:
The Great Debate
Blind Faith
ITPOE
Count of Tuscany (great song, but kind of weak compared to 8varium and ACOS, just my opinion)

[GasparXR]

Just my opinion, but I think it is just plain wrong to suggest ACOS is overrated.

That statement is indeed your opinion, but it is not wrong to think ACOS is overrated because that is THEIR opinion. But I happen to agree with you that ACOS gets the praise it deserves.

[senecadawg2]

Just my opinion, but I think it is just plain wrong to suggest ACOS is overrated.

Now songs that I do think are overrated:
The Great Debate
Blind Faith
ITPOE
Count of Tuscany (great song, but kind of weak compared to 8varium and ACOS, just my opinion)

Oh no. I forgot my biggest one...

Glass Prison- I don't really get what makes this song stand out so much in the AA suite, I personally prefer all the other songs (except repentance). While it is good heavy dream theater, I think there are plenty better songs to choose from the 'heavier-metal' side of DT (especially As I Am)

[Jamesman42]

Finally Free

[Jaffa]

Just my opinion, but I think it is just plain wrong to suggest ACOS is overrated.

This pretty much proves to me that it is overrated.  No song in existence is so perfect that it's 'just plain wrong' to express a negative opinion about it, which means that if you think ACOS is that perfect, you overrate it.  

Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who loves ACOS to pieces, and loves all of those pieces to pieces as well.  

[Ħ]

No song in existence is so perfect that it's 'just plain wrong' to express a negative opinion about it

Yes. A Change of Seasons.

[Adami]

No song in existence is so perfect that it's 'just plain wrong' to express a negative opinion about it

Yes. A Change of Seasons.

Indeed.

[kartmaze2]

Songs that always ranks higher than my preference:

In the Name of God
The Glass Prison
---
Voices
Trial of Tears
Space-Dye Vest
Pull Me Under

EDIT: Misunderstood

[?]

Hell's Kitchen
Trial of Tears
Stream of Consciousness
Octavarium

These 4 are definitely the most overrated IMO. None of them is bad (except that SOC is their worst instrumental), but I just can't find them as amazing as most seem to think they are.

Gotta add the "title-track" of Six Degrees, which I have never considered a real song. It's more like a suite IMO.

[j]

Learning To Live - Overall it's a good song. If you gave it better vocal melodies, it's a great song. But I feel the verse and chorus melodies are among the weakest on the album, and when you put that song up against the rest of the album, I see it as the weaker link, and not the strongest. It's not a bad song, but relatively speaking, I've never understand why it's considered the standout. The instrumental sections are fantastic, but the vocal sections let it down imo, so I consider it overrated.

I actually agree with some of this assessment.  The vocal melodies are easily the weakest part of the song.  But to me, everything else is SO good that it's still probably my 2nd favorite DT song.

I'll agree with the Count, too. It's a dead cool song and I love it, but I don't understand how it's anywhere near so many top tens. I mean fair cop, it's a good song, but it just seems a little OTT.

Rob, where would you rank TCoT against the rest of BC&SL alone?  Personally, with all its flaws, I still think it's the best song on the album by a very wide margin, although I know some people prefer ANtR.

-J

[BlobVanDam]

Just my opinion, but I think it is just plain wrong to suggest ACOS is overrated.

This pretty much proves to me that it is overrated.  No song in existence is so perfect that it's 'just plain wrong' to express a negative opinion about it, which means that if you think ACOS is that perfect, you overrate it. 

This is spot on. I really like ACOS, but to say that any song can't possibly be considered overrated ironically pretty much proves it's probably overrated.

[BlackInk]

But it's not overrated for someone who says it's the perfect song, then it's just highly rated. It becomes overrated for someone with lower opinions about the song enters the picture, so technically a song can't be overrated overal, only to the individual with the lower ratings.

[BlobVanDam]

It's perfectly fine for someone to say it's the perfect song. But senecadawg2 said it's plain wrong to even suggest that it's overrated. Different thing.

[robwebster]

I'll agree with the Count, too. It's a dead cool song and I love it, but I don't understand how it's anywhere near so many top tens. I mean fair cop, it's a good song, but it just seems a little OTT.

Rob, where would you rank TCoT against the rest of BC&SL alone?  Personally, with all its flaws, I still think it's the best song on the album by a very wide margin, although I know some people prefer ANtR.

-J

You know? It probably would be at the top. But then I see BCSL as being quite middle-of-the-pack. It's good all round, with very few dramatic flaws, but - aside from, perhaps, a bit of experimentation in ANtR - it spends a lot of its runtime "playing it safe." It feels like a reflection of the past, in a lot of ways, and though I really like many of the songs (Wither and A Rite of Passage, in particular), they all just feel like variations on themes that have been established before, and I can't really get too excited about any of them. It's not a dull album, it's not a bad album, and in fact it's never anything less than quite good, but the best it's got to offer (which is probably TCoT) isn't really half as shiny and electric as I think the band are capable of.

Which I hope answered your question at some point before it degenerated into a soliloquy about how BCSL makes me feel.

[BlackInk]

It's perfectly fine for someone to say it's the perfect song. But senecadawg2 said it's plain wrong to even suggest that it's overrated. Different thing.

Very different, I was more reffering to you saying that comment proves it's overrated and I just ment that it only was for you, but now when I think about it that may have been what you meant and in that case: never mind.

[BlobVanDam]

It's perfectly fine for someone to say it's the perfect song. But senecadawg2 said it's plain wrong to even suggest that it's overrated. Different thing.

Very different, I was more reffering to you saying that comment proves it's overrated and I just ment that it only was for you, but now when I think about it that may have been what you meant and in that case: never mind.

Actually I don't think it's too overrated (maybe a little, but I can see why people love it easily). What I meant was that his comment is such a ridiculously high level of unrealistic praise that it could make anything seem overrated, relatively speaking.

[Dynia]

Trial of Tears. I mean, i love it and it's a top 15 DT song for me, but... for many people it's a top 5 song, or even the best DT song - and it doesn't deserve that much praise.

Also, Blind Faith. I like the rest of the songs on SDOIT more.

[j]

I'll agree with the Count, too. It's a dead cool song and I love it, but I don't understand how it's anywhere near so many top tens. I mean fair cop, it's a good song, but it just seems a little OTT.

Rob, where would you rank TCoT against the rest of BC&SL alone?  Personally, with all its flaws, I still think it's the best song on the album by a very wide margin, although I know some people prefer ANtR.

-J

You know? It probably would be at the top. But then I see BCSL as being quite middle-of-the-pack. It's good all round, with very few dramatic flaws, but - aside from, perhaps, a bit of experimentation in ANtR - it spends a lot of its runtime "playing it safe." It feels like a reflection of the past, in a lot of ways, and though I really like many of the songs (Wither and A Rite of Passage, in particular), they all just feel like variations on themes that have been established before, and I can't really get too excited about any of them. It's not a dull album, it's not a bad album, and in fact it's never anything less than quite good, but the best it's got to offer (which is probably TCoT) isn't really half as shiny and electric as I think the band are capable of.

Which I hope answered your question at some point before it degenerated into a soliloquy about how BCSL makes me feel.

Absolutely, I mostly agree.  To demonstrate an opposing example, I consider SC the very worst DT album, but its best songs (ItPoE Pt. 1, Repentance) are some of the band's very best, I think.  TCoT is sublime in parts, but not consistent enough to warrant such praise IMO.  It's good, but in the end it's just the best song on a mediocre album.

Unfortunately, one of the only things that has me a bit wary of ADToE is that I almost get a "playing it safe" vibe collectively from these reviews.  That is that, in spite of the shake-up, DT have been careful not to stray from their established sound throughout.  It may or may not be true, and may even be a good thing in the eyes of some people, but it does sort of put a damper on the excitement for new musical freedom for the band.  Still really excited to hear it, though.

-J

[robwebster]

Unfortunately, one of the only things that has me a bit wary of ADToE is that I almost get a "playing it safe" vibe collectively from these reviews.  That is that, in spite of the shake-up, DT have been careful not to stray from their established sound throughout.  It may or may not be true, and may even be a good thing in the eyes of some people, but it does sort of put a damper on the excitement for new musical freedom for the band.  Still really excited to hear it, though.

-J

I've actually only read Rich Wilson's review ('cause I don't much fancy my first preconceptions of the album being coloured by text that's been babelfished a few times), but I'm not especially worried about that. I think change is inevitable. It's like...

...Right, anecdotal example - I did an interview with Steven Wilson once (brag brag brag) where he told me that he has a friend who he likes to show his music to as he composes it, and when he recorded Insurgentes he kept going up to his mate and going "look! check this out! this is so brand new and exciting, it's nothing like my normal stuff!" And his friend would listen to it, and go "that just sounds like you!" No matter how hard you try to ape someone's compositional style, you're almost inevitably going to fall into your own traits and mannerisms eventually - and the flipside to each composer having a very individual character, is that if you remove a collaborator, you're never going to make music in exactly that way again. It's a new band, with a new head arranger, a new man in charge of QC, John Myung's voice in the mix... "classic Dream Theater" isn't the same thing as "Dream Theater by numbers," and I think that with such a dramatic shift, there's inevitably going to be a change in the styles emphasised and the design of the songs. OtBoA, for instance, owes a lot more in its sound to John Petrucci's, James LaBrie's and Jordan Rudess's solo albums than older Dream Theater songs, I'd contend. I also think classic DT as written and recorded by five men who have something to prove is a completely different animal than classic DT as written by a band who've released nine albums already and have kind of fallen into a very comfortable groove devoid of any real challenges.

So I do understand your concerns - I am so ready for a change-up that it's unreal, and if they'd continued in the BCSL vein I'd probably have started to become a lot more casual a fan - but, in truth, I trust the lads to crank out a cracking album. And I'm not sure they've even got any choice in the matter.

Also, jesus christ I'm in storyteller mode today. Gather round kids - let Uncle Daddy tell you about the time he killed a ball boy...

[Ben_Jamin]

I'd have to say a lot of Awake is, to me, overrated. It's often lauded as one of the greatest albums out there, but I think it's got a good number of songs that just really shouldn't be there. The first three songs, entirely, I could do without. "The Silent Man," too. I'm not even that fond of "Lie." "Lifting Shadows off a Dream" is quite overrated, despite being just a ballad before Dream Theater was good at making ballads. "Scarred.." well, it's decent.

Now, here's something those who've read any one of my posts will completely expect: A lot of Metropolis, pt. 2: Scenes from a Memory is rated very highly, though I find the album to be rather average. (I'm not even gonna mention the concepts, or else we'll be here all night.) "Overture 1928" is a tad bit on the boring side, "Strange Deja Vu" has some unmemorable melodies and it feels improperly put together, "Beyond This Life" drags on and on and on in my opinion (though the Budokan performance is magnificent), and "Through Her Eyes" would have been a great song if it weren't for the random female singing that doesn't actually show up in the main song.

As for act two, "Home" is.. decent, catchy at the best of times. Scene Seven is the highlight of the album. "The Spirit Carries On." Oh. My god. Right, ignoring the fact that we're expected to believe this has a place in the story, this song is a generic ballad with random gospel-esque choirs that seem to only exist to please the Pink Floyd fans and lyrics that really have no place in the story. And at the climax, seriously? But I digress; I said I wouldn't mention the concepts. The guitar solo is enjoyable, and the "Regression" reprisal was the best part of the song. But really, this song makes the crowd go wild in concerts, and I honestly can't believe it. This was always my least-favourite song on the album, and it becomes that even moreso when we take the concept of the album into place!

Now, as much as I hate to say it, Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence has got to be overrated. I mean, I'm one of the people who adores the album more than life itself. But when it's being acclaimed to the extent that all future albums are pretty much criticized for not being like it? That's where I know something's wrong.

In fact, I think that about sums up my opinion on the concept of being overrated: We can praise things all we like, but when we're criticizing other things for not being like the praised, that's when it's overrated. This is why I try not to compare albums and songs; I prefer to contrast them and see how their differences work with each other to create a single discography.

..aaand okay, "Octavarium." I mean, don't get me wrong. I adore this song. ...when it gets going. The intro's magnificent, flute solo's pretty, but when the first movement officially starts? Oh my god, the vocals go by so slowly and monotonously. The second movement doesn't even pick up the pace that much. But as soon as the keyboard solo starts? I proggasm. So hard. And my proggasm continues until the climax, "Trapped inside this Octavarium." Theeeen I faze it out for Razor's Edge. That movement gets way too much credit. I find it incredulously dull, and Petrucci's solo sounds like he's half-asleep, too.

.. tl;dr: "The Silent Man," "Lifting Shadows off a Dream," "Strange Deja-Vu," "Beyond This Life," "The Spirit Carries On," probably "The Glass Prison" or "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence," "Octavarium."

Now for some bonus songs I didn't mention but like less than a lot of people seem to: "Take the Time," "Learning to Live," "A Change of Seasons," "Hollow Years," "Sacrificed Sons."

You don't like a lot of their slow stuff. TSCO fits the story, Nicholas now believes that Death is not the end but only a transition.

Beyond This Life, is the one I can see as overrated. It has a great melody for the chorus and bridge, but the instrumental part just drags and feels unnecessary. Doesnt add much to the story other than cool Zappa part.

[j]

Unfortunately, one of the only things that has me a bit wary of ADToE is that I almost get a "playing it safe" vibe collectively from these reviews.  That is that, in spite of the shake-up, DT have been careful not to stray from their established sound throughout.  It may or may not be true, and may even be a good thing in the eyes of some people, but it does sort of put a damper on the excitement for new musical freedom for the band.  Still really excited to hear it, though.

-J

I've actually only read Rich Wilson's review ('cause I don't much fancy my first preconceptions of the album being coloured by text that's been babelfished a few times), but I'm not especially worried about that. I think change is inevitable. It's like...

...Right, anecdotal example - I did an interview with Steven Wilson once (brag brag brag) where he told me that he has a friend who he likes to show his music to as he composes it, and when he recorded Insurgentes he kept going up to his mate and going "look! check this out! this is so brand new and exciting, it's nothing like my normal stuff!" And his friend would listen to it, and go "that just sounds like you!" No matter how hard you try to ape someone's compositional style, you're almost inevitably going to fall into your own traits and mannerisms eventually - and the flipside to each composer having a very individual character, is that if you remove a collaborator, you're never going to make music in exactly that way again. It's a new band, with a new head arranger, a new man in charge of QC, John Myung's voice in the mix... "classic Dream Theater" isn't the same thing as "Dream Theater by numbers," and I think that with such a dramatic shift, there's inevitably going to be a change in the styles emphasised and the design of the songs. OtBoA, for instance, owes a lot more in its sound to John Petrucci's, James LaBrie's and Jordan Rudess's solo albums than older Dream Theater songs, I'd contend. I also think classic DT as written and recorded by five men who have something to prove is a completely different animal than classic DT as written by a band who've released nine albums already and have kind of fallen into a very comfortable groove devoid of any real challenges.

So I do understand your concerns - I am so ready for a change-up that it's unreal, and if they'd continued in the BCSL vein I'd probably have started to become a lot more casual a fan - but, in truth, I trust the lads to crank out a cracking album. And I'm not sure they've even got any choice in the matter.

Also, jesus christ I'm in storyteller mode today. Gather round kids - let Uncle Daddy tell you about the time he killed a ball boy...

 

Great points.  I think you're right, and you have put my fears to rest, for the most part.

-J

[manticore999]

I think a lot are overrated. Like

ACOS
TCOT
8VM

To name just a few.