Scenes From a Memory: Do you consider it "Old" or "New" DT?

[Vajra]

Inspired by the old vs new thread.

I notice many people consider SFAM as part of the "Old DT" era of their music. Personally I consider that the first album of their New era. Musically, it just doesn't sound like anything previous to it, while the style sounds exactly like DT has sounded the past 10 years. So yeah, for me, SFAM will always be the begining of New DT.

[Aniland]

In all honesty? I'd say it straddles the threshold of old DT and new DT.

[bosk1]

Yeah, it's new in that it is Jordan's first foray with the band, and there are definitely some new influences.  But I think they also made a conscious effort to stay true to their "old" sound on this album more than the later ones, which were a bit more of a departure.  So I can see arguments for either, I suppose. 

[darkshot]

I consider it Old DT because the concept of Metropolis and its sequel was conceived long before Jordan arrived.  They were planning on making Metropolis Pt2 a single track on FII if I'm not mistaken?  Jordan did a great job on the album, but his presence doesn't necessarily put it in the "new" category.

[Mosh]

I thought I was the only one who thought about that. I think it's new DT because, to me, the difference between old DT and new DT is the keyboard players. Jordan Rudess is new DT, and KM and DS are Old DT.

[Vajra]

Jorden doesn't play much a part in my view of seeing it as New DT, for me, it just souds like modern DT. It has that sound that has remained within the past 10 years.

[MetropolisxPt1]

Jorden doesn't play much a part in my view of seeing it as New DT, for me, it just souds like modern DT. It has that sound that has remained within the past 10 years.

This

[Aniland]

It's hard for me to separate 6DOIT onward from new DT, I guess because their dynamic hasn't changed too much since then.

[darkshade]

Old DT, because when SDoIT came out, the band were starting to move in a heavier direction, but were also branching out with new sounds. SFAM seems like a culmination of everything they did up until that point, almost like a celebration of 90s DT.

At this point in DT's career though, I would consider WDaDU-FII "old" DT, SFAM-ToT "middle years" DT, and 8V-BC&SL "latter-era" DT. Can't say anything about the new album as it's not out yet.

[robwebster]

Way more in common with Six Degrees than with Falling Into Infinity, which is quite a feat given that half of it was written during the FII sessions.

So yeah, next era, far-and-away. Although, given the size their catalogue's reaching, the eras are starting to split a little deeper than old-and-new. They've got more than two phases, I'd say. Something like...

1. Dream and Day
2. Images and Words
3. Awake
4. Falling Into Infinity

5. Scenes from a Memory
6. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
7. Train of Thought

8. Octavarium
9. Systematic Chaos
10. Black Clouds & Silver Linings

11. A Dramatic Turn of Events

...yeah, think they're the logical splits. I'm not entirely sure what they're split into, but they all feel like bedfellows. I guess... the common themes are er, something like invention, experimentation, groove, and future? Although that does sound like a shit remake of the Crystal Maze.

[darkshade]

1. Dream and Day
2. Images and Words
3. Awake
4. Falling Into Infinity

5. Scenes from a Memory
6. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
7. Train of Thought

8. Octavarium
9. Systematic Chaos
10. Black Clouds & Silver Linings

11. A Dramatic Turn of Events

At this point in DT's career though, I would consider WDaDU-FII "old" DT, SFAM-ToT "middle years" DT, and 8V-BC&SL "latter-era" DT. Can't say anything about the new album as it's not out yet.

Nice!

[ReaperKK]

Old, I feel that the first new DT album was Six Degrees

[robwebster]

1. Dream and Day
2. Images and Words
3. Awake
4. Falling Into Infinity

5. Scenes from a Memory
6. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
7. Train of Thought

8. Octavarium
9. Systematic Chaos
10. Black Clouds & Silver Linings

11. A Dramatic Turn of Events

At this point in DT's career though, I would consider WDaDU-FII "old" DT, SFAM-ToT "middle years" DT, and 8V-BC&SL "latter-era" DT. Can't say anything about the new album as it's not out yet.

Nice!

Hahahaha - high fives all round!

[Hayden]

I see it as a perfect, magical, holy blend between the two eras  . It's the album that marks the turning point and the transitional phase for Dream Theater and their sound, and I feel that it features the best elements of DT's music from both eras; in my eyes, it's a perfect balance between the two styles that the band had in the two separate eras.

[IJewBear]

I feel like it's really the transition album from old to new. Stating the obvious, it is the album that sits right in the middle of what New and Old are defined as. The music I feel was setting up the change that they would go through. That being said, I think it had a lot to do with them having a do or die album with it and they needed to put together something that wasn't too different but started something fresh.

[tofee35]

I feel like it's really the transition album from old to new. Stating the obvious, it is the album that sits right in the middle of what New and Old are defined as. The music I feel was setting up the change that they would go through. That being said, I think it had a lot to do with them having a do or die album with it and they needed to put together something that wasn't too different but started something fresh.

Yes agreed. But, I wonder what Scenes would sound like with similar reverby, triggery early 90's DT production.

[tri.ad]

I agree with what several people have said: I think it's the transition album between old and new DT, mostly because of the addition of JR as another creative driving force (new) and there are many influences from before that - many parts were written during the FII sessions and you still get a bit of the "old DT" vibe (very marginally, though).

The first fully "new era DT" album would be SDOIT for me.

[BlobVanDam]

It's a transition between their older and newer sound, although at the end of the day, does it really matter? Now I think about it, the entire argument really just seems a way to either put it with what people consider the "good" or "bad" era. I listen to all DT, so I don't really care about an arbitrary divide as much as I used to. But if I had to choose, I'd say new.

[darkshade]

Before the band started writing SDoIT, weren't they thinking about going in a world music kind of direction; before JP and MP saw Pantera and wrote The Glass Prison? Imagine that!

After SFAM, I think the band felt like they were starting fresh. The drama was over with the record label, new decade, and they were starting 'new'.

[MasterLomaxus]

It's segue DT.

[Addy]

I consider "old" DT being DT from the 90. and "new" being what happened from 6DOIT. So SFAM is "old DT" to me.

[Scooterfruit]

Interesting question. I kind of view SFAM as the end of an era (where the prog more or less outweighed the metal) and the beginning of a new one(where the opposite occurred) .

You can sort of group the style of music from Dream and Day-Sfam together and group SDoit-BCSL together in terms of sonic qualities. It's kind of hard to quantify but I don't think Sfam "sounds" like Six Degrees...but I do think 6 degrees "sounds" like Train of thought and the following albums up until now (excluding the new one for obvious reasons)

I dunno, it's almost 1:30 am and I'm probably not making sense but hopefully someone can figure this out.

[ariich]

Am I the only one who doesn't see it as "old DT" or "new DT"? To me their sound has evolved somewhat from album to album, and I don't think there's any cut-off that clearly defines different eras.

[champbassist]

I think the definition as to what is "old DT" and what is "new DT" is pretty subjective. I, personally, think of everything pre-JR as "old DT" and everything post JR as "new DT".

[?]

Hmm... I'd say it's part of the old era or a "middle" era.

[jsem]

Old, I feel that the first new DT album was Six Degrees

[Zydar]

New.

[BlackInk]

When Dream and Day Unite is "The Ancient Dream Theater", Images and Words and Awake are "The Old Dream Theater", Falling Into Infinity is like something that's not really Dream Theater but still good and Scenes From a Memory - A Dramatic Turn of Events are "The New Dream Theater."

[Mr. Beale]

Middle more than anything, but I guess slightly more old due to the progy nature of the concept, but I don't take much stock in the new vs. old construct anyway.

[reo73]

Anything with Jordan feels split from the I&W-FII era.  I guess I vote new.

[wammabe]

Sounds like Old Dream Theater, aside from Jordan and the instrumental sections of the album.

[fibreoptix]

While I certainly agree that SFAM holds a lot in common with older DT, especially with all the Metropolis references, I think the circumstances surrounding the album place it at the beginning of a 'new era.' Let's consider...

- It was the first album they were able to do without any external influences, as well as the first album with Mike and John in the producer's chair.
- It was the first album they recorded with Jordan Rudess and the seeds for the tried and true 'John solos, Jordan solos' formula were already sewn, however toned down it might be at this point.
- The band seemed stronger and more unified than ever. After the devastating blows that almost caused Mike to quit, it definately seemed like a fresh start for all concerned.

So with all of that in mind, I'd be forced to consider it the first album of 'New DT.' Although if you want to get technical, 'New DT' could now apply to ADTOE and the SFAM - BCSL era would be 'Older DT.' I don't know what you'd call the albums before that.

Catagorising is fun.  

[Kotowboy]

It was the first DT album I bought. So new..or Do I mean old ? 

[perfectchaos180]

I'd say new primarily because of Jordan.... I think he is the biggest difference with the two sounds.

But I would also say it is old, because for the most part it isn't really heavy with the exception of some riffs.

But as others have said, I would put SFAM and SDOIT into a "middle" category.

Then ToT and 8VM into a "new"

then SC and BCSL in a "shitty neo DT" category

I personally don't really see why some people are putting 8VM with SC and BCSL.... Other than Sacrificed Sons the albums don't have much in common structure wise (maybe TROAE some)

[darkshade]

I personally don't really see why some people are putting 8VM with SC and BCSL.... Other than Sacrificed Sons the albums don't have much in common structure wise (maybe TROAE some)

8V, SC, and BC&SL are noticeably darker in tone. SFAM, SDoIT, and TOT have the LTE aura, energy, and craziness going for them.