ADTOE review by Rich Wilson

[Millais]

ANtR doesn't remind me of Opeth at all.

agreed. although the latest Opeth single, the solo is completely JP-like in tone and style of playing.
anyway, back to the topic, i think we should be very aware of who is writing this. while it is a, well, goodish review i'm going to wait until more are posted before digesting the subject as it is slightly worrying that Mangini isn't really mentioned.

[perfectchaos180]

I wasn't excited after I heard OTBOA, but now I am very excited

[Loser1]

Sounds like he dug it. Every time I hear new DT, it always takes a little while to digest. So hearing him say that is a positive to me. If I want foot tapping easy music, I would overlook DT (like most people do).

[Jamesman42]

Beware of the source, when DT is concerned I think most of us would agree that he has a somewhat... different taste when he ranks top DT songs/albums

Having read the review (thanks Hayden) I can see why people should be aware the source, though my reason to be wary of this review is that it's almost like he's sayig "meh."

Actually, I think RW said something that implied that he is on "MP's side" and he seems reluctant to want to hear/like the new DT without MP/with MM.

[orcus116]

That's news to me. Now, I'm curious: how does it remind you guys of Opeth?

Ive never even thought about opeth during ANTR is to busy for an opeth song.

I think you're giving too much credit to DT and not enough to Opeth.

[KevShmev]

Actually, I think RW said something that implied that he is on "MP's side" and he seems reluctant to want to hear/like the new DT without MP/with MM.

It wouldn't surprise me.  Correct me if I am wrong, but Mike Mangini's name is not mentioned once in his review.  Given the significance of that member change, how do you do a review of the album and not mention the name of the new drummer?

And I'd just like to say that it is unfortunate that some fans are put in a position to where they feel the need to take a side. 

[Gorille85]

That's news to me. Now, I'm curious: how does it remind you guys of Opeth?

Ive never even thought about opeth during ANTR is to busy for an opeth song.

I think you're giving too much credit to DT and not enough to Opeth.

[BlobVanDam]

ANtR doesn't remind me of Opeth at all.

I guess I can see the comparison. It's got really heavy bookends with a soft middle.

It's just that the music doesn't sound like Opeth. The riffs are more Metallica and the solo bit is pure Dream Theater.

Well I didn't necessarily say it reminded me of Opeth, although I can understand it. Although I don't hear any Metallica in there either.

[orcus116]

And I'd just like to say that it is unfortunate that some fans are put in a position to where they feel the need to take a side. 

Without meaning to offend anyone I have a big feeling all those "DT COME TO CHILE!!!" foreign types (for lack of a better description) will be more skeptical because the SFAM lineup isn't the one making this album.

[Bertielee]

And I'd just like to say that it is unfortunate that some fans are put in a position to where they feel the need to take a side.  

Without meaning to offend anyone I have a big feeling all those "DT COME TO CHILE!!!" foreign types (for lack of a better description) will be more skeptical because the SFAM lineup isn't the one making this album.

Are you serious? Your remark verges on racism : THOSE "blahblahblah" FOREIGN types?!?!? Yeah, you lack a better description but you might have thought of something else.

B.Lee

[Phantasmatron]

Beware of the source, when DT is concerned I think most of us would agree that he has a somewhat... different taste when he ranks top DT songs/albums

Why is that?

I think he is probably saying that Rich Wilson's opinions on songs and albums are often different from the majority of the fans.  For example, saying in Lifting Shadows that Just Let Me Breathe and Burning My Soul are two of Falling into Infinity's highlights (when those two songs are often two of the four least popular songs from the album according to most fans).  Not saying his opinions don't matter; just don't give them any more validity than those of other reviewers or fans, simply because they come from the guy who happened to write the band's biography.  That's all.

I don't remember many of the specifics of RW's opinions, but I do remember that pretty much every time he reviewed an album in Lifting Shadows I'd start off going, "yeah, I totally agree," and then halfway through his review it would change to, "Wait...what the fuck?!"  So he has some weird opinions that I disagree with, but he's still a DT fan who digs their music, so I give his review at least a little more credence than whatever winds up getting posted on AllMusic.com or whatever.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

ANtR doesn't remind me of Opeth at all.

I guess I can see the comparison. It's got really heavy bookends with a soft middle.

It's just that the music doesn't sound like Opeth. The riffs are more Metallica and the solo bit is pure Dream Theater.

Well I didn't necessarily say it reminded me of Opeth, although I can understand it. Although I don't hear any Metallica in there either.

I'm confused. Are you saying that I said that you said it reminded you of Opeth? 'Cause I don't think I did. This is too much for my tiny brain to handle.

Also, I think the main riff at the start sounds very Metallica.

[BlobVanDam]

ANtR doesn't remind me of Opeth at all.

I guess I can see the comparison. It's got really heavy bookends with a soft middle.

It's just that the music doesn't sound like Opeth. The riffs are more Metallica and the solo bit is pure Dream Theater.

Well I didn't necessarily say it reminded me of Opeth, although I can understand it. Although I don't hear any Metallica in there either.

I'm confused. Are you saying that I said that you said it reminded you of Opeth? 'Cause I don't think I did. This is too much for my tiny brain to handle.

Also, I think the main riff at the start sounds very Metallica.

Nah, I was just clarifying.

And I don't hear a Metallica influence. Firstly, I find it very hard to acknowledge any riff that isn't in the key of E sounds like Metallica. It's just the rule.
When I think Metallica, I think the signature flattened 2nd, or the repeated downpicking of the open string, neither of which the riff has. I just hear a standard detuned metal riff, without any defining characteristic I would associate with a particular band. DT have a lot of riffs that show a strong Metallica influence, but I don't feel this is one of them.

As a side question, are you a Metallica fan? I suspect that the Opeth thing might be a case of people who don't know Opeth well associating it with Opeth (such as Rich Wilson, who I doubt is into that sort of music).

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I am a Metallica fan, actually!

[BlobVanDam]

Oh. Well hopefully I didn't offend you too much.

[antigoon]

And I'd just like to say that it is unfortunate that some fans are put in a position to where they feel the need to take a side. 

Without meaning to offend anyone I have a big feeling all those "DT COME TO CHILE!!!" foreign types (for lack of a better description) will be more skeptical because the SFAM lineup isn't the one making this album.

I gotta admit...this made me laugh

[Apricot]

And I'd just like to say that it is unfortunate that some fans are put in a position to where they feel the need to take a side.  

Without meaning to offend anyone I have a big feeling all those "DT COME TO CHILE!!!" foreign types (for lack of a better description) will be more skeptical because the SFAM lineup isn't the one making this album.

Are you serious? Your remark verges on racism : THOSE "blahblahblah" FOREIGN types?!?!? Yeah, you lack a better description but you might have thought of something else.

B.Lee

It's not racist at all. You capitilise foreign as if that's a crude word to say. There are foreign Dream Theater fans, and most people have seen them say "COME TO CHILE!", and he said 'types', as in, not EVERY foreign fan does it.

If I were to say, "Oh I dislike those types people who refuse to listen to WDADU", it wouldn't be racist, so why is it racist just because the 'type' of people he was talking about just happen to be foreign?

[Bertielee]

And I'd just like to say that it is unfortunate that some fans are put in a position to where they feel the need to take a side.  

Without meaning to offend anyone I have a big feeling all those "DT COME TO CHILE!!!" foreign types (for lack of a better description) will be more skeptical because the SFAM lineup isn't the one making this album.

Are you serious? Your remark verges on racism : THOSE "blahblahblah" FOREIGN types?!?!? Yeah, you lack a better description but you might have thought of something else.

B.Lee

It's not racist at all. You capitilise foreign as if that's a crude word to say. There are foreign Dream Theater fans, and most people have seen them say "COME TO CHILE!", and he said 'types', as in, not EVERY foreign fan does it.

If I were to say, "Oh I dislike those types people who refuse to listen to WDADU", it wouldn't be racist, so why is it racist just because the 'type' of people he was talking about just happen to be foreign?

So, in your opinion, only those foreign types will be skeptical about DT 11 because it's not the SFAM line up?

B.Lee

[Arch Benemy]

I always find it's 'DT COME TO INDONESIA' rather than Chile, but I mainly try to ignore those foreign types.

[nikatapi]

I'm afraid the thread is going off topic...
About the review, as others have said before me, Mr. Wilson's opinions about DT's music sometimes can be different than many fans, so nothing is certain until we all listen to the record.

I have to say that a more prominent JM, improved lyrics and good production are enough for me to get much excited (not that i wasn't before the review).

[Daso]

It's the first time I see anything written by RW, and guiding myself through what you guys say, he doesn't have much credibility. However, I still appreciate the fact that know it's known which songs are the lighter, more mellow, or ballads, and which are the heavier or more prog-sounding.

[ReaPsTA]

I love how you guys are talking about Rich's review like he's not here.  You guys do see his name pop up fairly regularly in the online users thing, right?

[orcus116]

He can deal with it. He's a grown man.

[Pinga]

It's not like anyone is being disrespectful. I find him to be not trustworthy when it comes to DT reviews, and so do other people who have posted in the thread. What's wrong with that?

[Rich Wilson]

Hey - if there weren't people taking issue with the review, then I'd be really disappointed in you guys!!

Ignoring my comments on tracks in the book - some of which I actually agree were off target and were removed for the second edition in 2009 - I love the album. I am sure there are people saying that I'm bound to say that given I worked with the band on the book. To be honest, if I thought it sucked, I wouldn't slag it off - I'd just not post a review. But as I said in the ADToE review, it is a great album, and ultimately it is all about the music, not the drama that created it. I've always made sure to tread a careful line and not get involved in the MP vs DT debate, as it's pretty much none of my business. But I honestly think you'll dig the album. I decided to keep the review short so as not to spoil too many surprises (I made that mistake in reviewing BC&SL for Metal Hammer online - too much detail!). And fair point about me not mentioning the drumming. That's great too - as you'd expect given who is behind the kit. It just sounds like a great DT album.

And yes the old Flash website is a pain but as I've no HTML knowledge, it will have to do for the time being until I get around to doing a Wordpress version - unless anyone can point me in the direction of a similar site that involves basic coding knowledge!!

[Jamesman42]

You digging JM's new lyrics?

[Bertielee]

Hey - if there weren't people taking issue with the review, then I'd be really disappointed in you guys!!

Ignoring my comments on tracks in the book - some of which I actually agree were off target and were removed for the second edition in 2009 - I love the album. I am sure there are people saying that I'm bound to say that given I worked with the band on the book. To be honest, if I thought it sucked, I wouldn't slag it off - I'd just not post a review. But as I said in the ADToE review, it is a great album, and ultimately it is all about the music, not the drama that created it. I've always made sure to tread a careful line and not get involved in the MP vs DT debate, as it's pretty much none of my business. But I honestly think you'll dig the album. I decided to keep the review short so as not to spoil too many surprises (I made that mistake in reviewing BC&SL for Metal Hammer online - too much detail!). And fair point about me not mentioning the drumming. That's great too - as you'd expect given who is behind the kit. It just sounds like a great DT album.

And yes the old Flash website is a pain but as I've no HTML knowledge, it will have to do for the time being until I get around to doing a Wordpress version - unless anyone can point me in the direction of a similar site that involves basic coding knowledge!!

Honestly, Rich, I had seen nothing negative in your review. It has got me more excited to get DT 11. What I found strange waht the non mention of MM, but now, you've cleared things up. Thank you!

B.Lee

[Rich Wilson]

You digging JM's new lyrics?

Yeah, it's a nice change. I've not got the booklet though, so can't read them in detail.

[dvargas]

And I'd just like to say that it is unfortunate that some fans are put in a position to where they feel the need to take a side. 

Without meaning to offend anyone I have a big feeling all those "DT COME TO CHILE!!!" foreign types (for lack of a better description) will be more skeptical because the SFAM lineup isn't the one making this album.

Pretty damn racist. And im gonna leave it at that to avoid profiling.

The mods should pay attention to shit like this.

DT has far more fans outside the US than here. 

[jonny108]

You digging JM's new lyrics?

Yeah, it's a nice change. I've not got the booklet though, so can't read them in detail.

Can we have one line pleaseee.  I'm sure everyone else will agree...just a little teaser 

[orcus116]

And I'd just like to say that it is unfortunate that some fans are put in a position to where they feel the need to take a side.  

Without meaning to offend anyone I have a big feeling all those "DT COME TO CHILE!!!" foreign types (for lack of a better description) will be more skeptical because the SFAM lineup isn't the one making this album.

Pretty damn racist. And im gonna leave it at that to avoid profiling.

The mods should pay attention to shit like this.

DT has far more fans outside the US than here.  

You must have the absolute loosest definition of racism if you think that's even mildly racist, let alone "pretty damn racist".

[ResultsMayVary]

And I'd just like to say that it is unfortunate that some fans are put in a position to where they feel the need to take a side.  

Without meaning to offend anyone I have a big feeling all those "DT COME TO CHILE!!!" foreign types (for lack of a better description) will be more skeptical because the SFAM lineup isn't the one making this album.

Pretty damn racist. And im gonna leave it at that to avoid profiling.

The mods should pay attention to shit like this.

DT has far more fans outside the US than here.  

You must have the absolute loosest definition of racism if you think that's even mildly racist, let alone "pretty damn racist".

This. I have no idea how that can be seen as racist...

[Adami]

I don't understand what the SFAM lineup has to do with people outside of America.

[Nick]

Orcus, I think I understand what you're trying to say, but you really expressed yourself in a horrible manner and need to watch that.

Rich, thank you for the review, I figured that you'd just not do a review if you didn't like it but it's cool to see you've enjoyed it so much. I know the DT v MP drama isn't your concern now, but when Lifting Shadows 3rd edition rolls around I expect you to get all the good dirt!

Edit: The reason it's at least insensitive is because there are plenty of big DT fans going, "COME TO Wyomming", or "COME TO (Insert random small US town here)". He specifically made something about foreign fans which applies to a part of DT's fanbase, regardless of geography.

[orcus116]

No I didn't, Nick. Seriously, there was no name calling or anything. How is it my fault that a few people are hyper sensitive and extracted meaning out of something that wasn't even stated? It was an amusing observation and calling it "horrible" is kind of insulting.