Average white household 20 times as wealthy as average minority household

[rumborak]

From https://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904772304576468333980952942.html?mod=e2tw




That's just sad.

rumborak

[Cool Chris]

The two-bedroom house of Laevonne Gordon, an African-American from Escondido, Calif., was worth $265,000 when she bought it in 2005. Now, it is valued at $81,000...

Holy crap.

The median value of directly held stock and mutual funds dropped the most for Hispanics and blacks. The value fell 32% for Hispanics and 71% for blacks. For whites, the value fell 9%.

Holy crap again.

[ReaPsTA]

I think the problem is a graph like this is used to say RACISM!!!! instead of trying to really break things down.

Why not take all black people who have a family income of 80,000 per year (just a number I made up) and compare their status in life to whites who make the same amount.  If their houses are less valuable, then there's more of a reason to say "hey, wait a second."

[El Barto]

I think the problem is a graph like this is used to say RACISM!!!! instead of trying to really break things down.

Why not take all black people who have a family income of 80,000 per year (just a number I made up) and compare their status in life to whites who make the same amount.  If their houses are less valuable, then there's more of a reason to say "hey, wait a second."

I agree.  There are far too many variables that are being left out.

[Ħ]

Blacks make less money than whites!  Whites are the better race! olol

[Adami]

Blacks make less money than whites!  Whites are the better race! olol

Thank you.

[bosk1]

I think the problem is a graph like this is used to say RACISM!!!! instead of trying to really break things down.

Why not take all black people who have a family income of 80,000 per year (just a number I made up) and compare their status in life to whites who make the same amount.  If their houses are less valuable, then there's more of a reason to say "hey, wait a second."

I agree.  There are far too many variables that are being left out.

Such as, say, other minorities, for instance?  You know, since the title of the thread is "Average white household 20 times as wealthy as average minority household" even though the survey only addresses two minorities.

[Scheavo]

I think the problem is a graph like this is used to say RACISM!!!! instead of trying to really break things down.

Why not take all black people who have a family income of 80,000 per year (just a number I made up) and compare their status in life to whites who make the same amount.  If their houses are less valuable, then there's more of a reason to say "hey, wait a second."

I agree.  There are far too many variables that are being left out.

I think this arguemnt detract from the importance of the issue: just how fucking poor so many people are. Poverty is a vicious cycle, it's an unrealistic ideal to think that people can just pull themselves up from their bootstraps. I think this shows that our countries educational system is failing those who need it the most.

[MasterShakezula]

I think the problem is a graph like this is used to say RACISM!!!! instead of trying to really break things down.

Why not take all black people who have a family income of 80,000 per year (just a number I made up) and compare their status in life to whites who make the same amount.  If their houses are less valuable, then there's more of a reason to say "hey, wait a second."

I agree.  There are far too many variables that are being left out.

I think this arguemnt detract from the importance of the issue: just how fucking poor so many people are. Poverty is a vicious cycle, it's an unrealistic ideal to think that people can just pull themselves up from their bootstraps. I think this shows that our countries educational system is failing those who need it the most.

Though I agree with you wholeheartedly about the education system being a major fail, being a HS student and seeing my school full of worthless and unmotivated factory fodder, I would like to hear what you feel has caused the system to fail and how you could see it being fixed. 

[Ħ]

As a .serious comment....do poorer families have more children than wealthier families?  That would explain a lot.

[MasterShakezula]

As a .serious comment....do poorer families have more children than wealthier families?  That would explain a lot.

Probably.  The poorer people are usually rather uneducated and may not know about birth control.  Or can't afford it.

And there are also the welfare monarchs who procreate on a yearly basis for those dumbass tax breaks.  Now those people really ought to be cut off of any sort of welfare. 

[Scheavo]

Though I agree with you wholeheartedly about the education system being a major fail, being a HS student and seeing my school full of worthless and unmotivated factory fodder, I would like to hear what you feel has caused the system to fail and how you could see it being fixed.  

Yikes, unfortunately, I don't really an answer to this. I think corruption is a huge reason why we've seen a decline, teacher unions and the over bureaucratization of the educational system. Though, I guess to be honest, the problem is much bigger than just the educational system... it's sociological, economical, technological, etc. Television plays a role, as does the increasing ability to just use the internet and other sources of technology to do the work for you. I remember in 6th grade, the teacher made a great point regarding calculators. She split the class up in to small groups of 3-4, and had one person in each group use a calculator to solve some easy problems, one person use paper and pencil, and another person to just do it in their head. I remember I did the problems in my head, and since the examples she gave were intentinoally simple, I beat everyone else by a large amount. People "outsource" their thinking to the computer, dumbing themselves down in the process.

[Scheavo]

As a .serious comment....do poorer families have more children than wealthier families?  That would explain a lot.

Probably.  The poorer people are usually rather uneducated and may not know about birth control.  Or can't afford it.

<insert opening footage of Idiocracy>

And there are also the welfare monarchs who procreate on a yearly basis for those dumbass tax breaks.  Now those people really ought to be cut off of any sort of welfare. 

Those just aren't that common, really. There's also people whose job consists in finding these people out, and kicking them out of the system (my sister-in-laws mother does this).

[El Barto]

And there are also the welfare monarchs who procreate on a yearly basis for those dumbass tax breaks.  Now those people really ought to be cut off of any sort of welfare. 

Those just aren't that common, really. There's also people whose job consists in finding these people out, and kicking them out of the system (my sister-in-laws mother does this).

I have to wonder if those people even exist at all. 

[MasterShakezula]

And there are also the welfare monarchs who procreate on a yearly basis for those dumbass tax breaks.  Now those people really ought to be cut off of any sort of welfare. 

Those just aren't that common, really. There's also people whose job consists in finding these people out, and kicking them out of the system (my sister-in-laws mother does this).

I have to wonder if those people even exist at all. 

I'm pretty sure they're a myth, much like globalization that has actually benefited the nations being exploited.

But, anyways, yeah welfare monarchs really ought to be done away with. 

[bosk1]

Honestly, the data doesn't even make sense.  How are they defining "net worth?"  If the average "net worth" of a Black househould is...let's see here...let me pick something ridiculously low...let's say $20,000...that means the average net worth of a White household is $400,000.  Really?  I don't think so.  I'd love to know what those numbers really mean.

[ReaPsTA]

And there are also the welfare monarchs who procreate on a yearly basis for those dumbass tax breaks.  Now those people really ought to be cut off of any sort of welfare.  

Those just aren't that common, really. There's also people whose job consists in finding these people out, and kicking them out of the system (my sister-in-laws mother does this).

I have to wonder if those people even exist at all.  

I don't think anyone consciously thinks "Okay, so if I have another kid, it will cost 500 dollars per month to care for it, and the additional welfare is 600 dollars per month, so I make a net 1,200 dollar per year increase in income."  But most people I know who aren't on welfare go to great lengths to make sure they don't have kids.  If you're a welfare mom who's already irresponsible and you'll get paid more if you have more kids, then what's the incentive to be responsible with birth control?  There is none.

I'm pretty sure they're a myth, much like globalization that has actually benefited the nations being exploited.

If I'm an Ethiopian, do I went to make five cents an hour or ten cents an hour?  Relative to our standard of living this is still appalling, but for them it's a relative benefit.

[reo73]

I think the problem is a graph like this is used to say RACISM!!!! instead of trying to really break things down.

Why not take all black people who have a family income of 80,000 per year (just a number I made up) and compare their status in life to whites who make the same amount.  If their houses are less valuable, then there's more of a reason to say "hey, wait a second."

I agree.  There are far too many variables that are being left out.

I think this arguemnt detract from the importance of the issue: just how fucking poor so many people are. Poverty is a vicious cycle, it's an unrealistic ideal to think that people can just pull themselves up from their bootstraps. I think this shows that our countries educational system is failing those who need it the most.

I tend to not agree with the "education system is failing" sentiment.  It seems like a cop-out to me since every American has access to an amazing amount of education.  In my experience, the system fails when families or individuals place little to no importance on education and do not support or encourage a child to proceed with education.  I'm not saying there aren't bad teachers, schools, or school districts out there but by in large people in this county have more access to education than 90% of the world.

Here's an anecdote that illustrates my frustration with that argument.  When I was a senior in HS Jesse Jackson came to speak at our school (I went to a school that was 60% minority).  He talked about how the education system has failed minorities....blah, blah, blah, and proceeded to give an example of a girl in our school who was not getting the opportunities that "whites" get and so he was going to recommend her to some nice east coast college that he had connections to.  Well, turns out this girl happened to be in my Physics class and you know about how many times I saw her in class?  Maybe 50% at best.  Her lack of opportunity had nothing to do with her minority status as far as I could tell and everything to do with her lack of respect for her own education.  BTW, the physics teacher was regarded as the best teacher in my school and his class was outstanding.

[ReaPsTA]

it's an unrealistic ideal to think that people can just pull themselves up from their bootstraps.

America was built on people doing this because they were expected to.  I dunno if you've worked in a grocery store before, but you know what demographic buys the nicest food?  The food stamp recipients.  Why spend money you didn't earn with any modicum of responsibility?  If you reduce the amount of welfare given out, I can guarantee you that people living in trailer parks would quickly stop buying Air Jordans and King Crab legs.

[MasterShakezula]

reo73: I notice a similar phenomena at my school, as well.  The school has a large proportion of minorities (primarily Hispanic), and in the non-honors classes I am in, I notice that the rowdiest and least-disciplined, as well as least concerned with actually performing well are the Hispanics.  Many of these students are often under the influence in class, and some would show up to class on a fort-nightly basis.  Of course, this wasn't an ethnically-rooted problem.  I saw just as many whites who were equally worthless.  I'm betting that about 80% at least of the students at my school are worthless, useless people who will never make it to college.  And apparently my school is one of the best in the state.  

So, I guess our nation's problem, in terms of poverty, is that most people simply are worthless by nature and deserve it.  

[Scheavo]

it's an unrealistic ideal to think that people can just pull themselves up from their bootstraps.

America was built on people doing this because they were expected to.

There are powerful examples of people doing this, but the sad truth is, this is too hard for most people to do and for no fault of their own. Even in the times of the revolutino, the poor generally remained poor and the rich generally remained rich.

[Scheavo]

If the average "net worth" of a Black househould is...let's see here...let me pick something ridiculously low...let's say $20,000...that means the average net worth of a White household is $400,000.  Really?  I don't think so.  I'd love to know what those numbers really mean.

Sadly, you're ridiculously low number of $20,000 is about 4x as high as the actual average net worth of a black household. It's right there on the graph: $5,677.

[PowerSlave]

To you guys that are complaining about some of your fellow students that are irresponsible, out of control ect. ect...your points are valid but, I would ask you to consider a few things. One of things being, some people don't realize the importance of an education until later in life. I was one of those bad students when I was young. Infact, some of my antics were legendary amongst my class mates. When ever I would see some of them at times after that I was often greeted with "Remember the time you...". I could only hang my head in shame when thinking about those days. I dropped out of high school when I was 16 yrs old and learned a lot of hard lessons in the years after that.

I had the opportunity to go to a local technical college in my mid-30's for a short time (1 year) and did quite well during that time because I had matured and was a different person. Unfortunately, my monetary situation put a stop to my college experience but, I can tell you right now that I'd gladly cut off my left testicle and donate it to science If it would afford me the chance to return and finish. I think that many of my former class mates would be very surprised to meet the person that I've become. Infact, my class is having a 20th year reunion in september and they've invited me to attend so I'll be able to find out.

I know this is off topic but, I wanted to take the opportunity to ask some of the younger guys in here to keep their minds open.

Carry on.

[j]

Yeah, the education system definitely fails in a lot of ways, but I tend to lean toward reo's view on this.  The bigger problems for these kids are at home, and the public education system cannot be realistically expected to not only compensate for their parents' shortcomings, but counter and overcome negative influences too.

And no, I do not have a solution.

-J

[XJDenton]

The actual report if anyone is interested:

https://pewsocialtrends.org/2011/07/26/wealth-gaps-rise-to-record-highs-between-whites-blacks-hispanics/

[bosk1]

If the average "net worth" of a Black househould is...let's see here...let me pick something ridiculously low...let's say $20,000...that means the average net worth of a White household is $400,000.  Really?  I don't think so.  I'd love to know what those numbers really mean.

Sadly, you're ridiculously low number of $20,000 is about 4x as high as the actual average net worth of a black household. It's right there on the graph: $5,677.

Ah, you're starting to catch on.  

I'd be really curious to sit down and figure out what my net worth is and see how far it would NOT fit that chart at all.  Wish I had the time.

[Scheavo]

If the average "net worth" of a Black househould is...let's see here...let me pick something ridiculously low...let's say $20,000...that means the average net worth of a White household is $400,000.  Really?  I don't think so.  I'd love to know what those numbers really mean.

Sadly, you're ridiculously low number of $20,000 is about 4x as high as the actual average net worth of a black household. It's right there on the graph: $5,677.

Ah, you're starting to catch on.  

I'd be really curious to sit down and figure out what my net worth is and see how far it would NOT fit that chart at all.  Wish I had the time.

Hehe, nor would I. Wish I was even half of what I'm supposed to be worth...

I also wonder how much the super-rich distort this for white people. Think it's fair to say the majority of Wallstreet bankers and the super rich are white, and the wealth of the top 1% is staggering.

[bosk1]

Well, I would throw it off for several reasons:
1.  I'm mixed "white" and "hispanic."  Which race shall I take?
2.  I have an income that is at the top of the scale.
3.  Depending on what you count and what you don't, although I have a lot of "stuff," my net worth is probably actually a negative number given that all my real estate holdings are upside down and have negative equity.

[Super Dude]

I thought you were (formerly) Jewish?

[ghostnotes]

3.  Depending on what you count and what you don't, although I have a lot of "stuff," my net worth is probably actually a negative number given that all my real estate holdings are upside down and have negative equity.

This has to apply to pretty much everyone right now I'd imagine.

[jasc15]

I also wonder how much the super-rich distort this for white people. Think it's fair to say the majority of Wallstreet bankers and the super rich are white, and the wealth of the top 1% is staggering.

They wouldn't distort it at all.  It is a median value, which is distinct from the mean.  If you took 101 people, and counted them from least to most net worth, whoever is number 51 represents the median.  So regardless of how much the top earners have, it would not effect the median.

(I actually forgot the definition of median, and was constantly confused why it is a better indicator than the mean until i looked it up the other day.  I reasoned that it was the middle of the lowest and highest values of a group, therefore greatly affected by the extremes. )

[Scheavo]

I also wonder how much the super-rich distort this for white people. Think it's fair to say the majority of Wallstreet bankers and the super rich are white, and the wealth of the top 1% is staggering.

They wouldn't distort it at all.  It is a median value, which is distinct from the mean.  If you took 101 people, and counted them from least to most net worth, whoever is number 51 represents the median.  So regardless of how much the top earners have, it would not effect the median.

(I actually forgot the definition of median, and was constantly confused why it is a better indicator than the mean until i looked it up the other day.  I reasoned that it was the middle of the lowest and highest values of a group, therefore greatly affected by the extremes. )

LOL, well I remembered what the median was, and I was even wondering why they used it when I first read the article... 

[bosk1]

I thought you were (formerly) Jewish?

Yes, which for purposes of this data, would be considered "White."

[Super Dude]

Okay, my bad.

[contest_sanity]

I tend to not agree with the "education system is failing" sentiment.  It seems like a cop-out to me since every American has access to an amazing amount of education. 

Yes, everyone has access to some educational options but they're certainly not the same options or equal options.  Last year I did my student teaching in one of the richest counties in my state.  The county has 3 high schools, 2 of which are elite entry, one by virtue of being private and the other because it was legislated that one must live in a certain part of the county to attend.  While the demographics of the county are roughly 70% white and 30% minority, the demographics of the regular public high school (where I was placed) were exactly opposite of that: 30% white and 70% minority.  The school has a terrible reputation, both within the county and outside of it.  Morale within the school is very low.  Teachers don't want to go and teach there.  The ones who do end up there end up there because they got no other job offers. 

I don't want to paint a completely negative picture, though.  Most of the students really were good kids, and the teachers who are there work really hard.  But to say that these kids had the same educational opportunities as the rich kids in the county seems completely absurd to me.  Now, I know there are systemic problems within society that cause such situations to happen, so I understand that "education has failed" cannot be an all-encompassing excuse.  However, to call it a "cop-out" to me seems like not enough weight is being given to the fact that the education system does fail the poor in many important ways.