AVENGED SEVENFOLD: We Urged MIKE PORTNOY Against Quitting DREAM THEATER

[Faustusmedea]

But, wait--what??  How do A7X lose any integrity in this scenario?

This last interview is just over the top, the atmospheric is to paint MP as a craven wannabe who really wanted to become part of A7X when they had no intention of that. Because we weren't there, we don't know the truth but its far more likely they saw a significant bonus to bringing someone of Portnoy's stature aboard and so it was probably more reciprocal and filled with mixed messages than they are painting it now. To bring up money and psychoanalyze MP about his decisions is immature, which shouldn't really be surprising.

[skydivingninja]

They brought MP into A7X for the album and the tour because he was the Rev's idol.  They certainly weren't prepared to keep him full-time.  As far as I'm concerned, everyone except MP has handled the split with class and tact. 

[SystematicThought]

A7X has been nothing but classy. To be honest, when the truth is given straight, I find that more classy than dancing around the truth. When MP left A7X, I liked that M Shadows was honest and said, hey look, MP was too 'press release' happy, we don't do that in A7X. We keep to ourselves and go on. When it comes down to it, MP uses social networking to let his mind loose and basically say what he's feeling. This current period in his life ain't exactly the best time to speak your mind on the internet. I understand how A7X felt.

Another thing that I understand is that A7X didn't want to become: Mike Portnoy and Avenged Sevenfold. Quite frankly, that very well could have happened. I know that once that new A7X track was released earlier this year, I saw a few people on MP's site say: Yeah, since Mike left A7X, I don't listen to/like them anymore. No doubt that some people only started listening to A7X because of MP. If I was in A7X, I certainly wouldn't want to have my band surrounding one member and having his name and then my band name.

Another point too is exactly what skydivingninja just said. A7X wasn't prepared to keep MP full time. They brought him in as a touring member for 2010, I don't think they ever had it in their mind that they wanted him full time. After Jimmy died, they said between themselves that they wanted an up and coming, young drummer to come into the band. They just wanted MP to get them through the beginning of the tour.

Also, the age difference and personality differences.....

[emtee]

One of the things I've been a little confused about is that A7X seems to indicate that they never hinted or implied
that MP would become a permanent member. But at the time MP did an interview and said they're a band without a
drummer and I'm a drummer without a band...and from a couple other little tidbits I just figured that behind the scenes
MP was led to believe he was going to be a full time member. It's like that sense of security, being in A7X full time
prompted him to make that drastic move. And then the bottom fell out.

But I guess we will never know what was said in private and we just have to take everyone at their word.

[erik16]

Well you could say that Mike was blinded by his hunger and couldn't tell his days were numbered.

[Faustusmedea]

A7X wasn't prepared to keep MP full time. They brought him in as a touring member for 2010, I don't think they ever had it in their mind that they wanted him full time.

This doesn't wash with me. For one thing, why would the amount of money MP makes come up at all if they never had any intention of offering him a full time role? And with a number one record and huge tour, how is it these guys are complaining about how much they would have to pay a vet? Its likely they didn't understand how to build an artist friendly deal and pay more to managers, agents, lawyers and the label leaving less to the band percentagewise.

More likely is that some of A7X liked the idea of bringing on a seasoned vet and others saw a threat to the path they had created. In that environment, they probably put out mixed signals which MP took too far, too quickly. This is my issue with A7X, they want to paint the picture this rock star showed up and tried to elbow his way into the fold, but we were having none of it.

MP has been nothing but cool to A7X. He could have been passive aggressive and put out something like "I had a great time with them even though the caliber of technical ability was beneath what I am used to". That would also be telling the truth, but totally unnecessary.

[SystematicThought]

Well, he was kind of passive aggressive. He tweeted shortly after he left A7X that "The only people you can trust is your family" or something like that. He didn't need to 'tweet' that either

[chrisbDTM]

yea and he redirected fans with tweets 'go back to a7x!!' with go talk to them it wasnt my decision...etc

[ReaPsTA]

Well, he was kind of passive aggressive. He tweeted shortly after he left A7X that "The only people you can trust is your family" or something like that. He didn't need to 'tweet' that either

I know I'm being lame and starting a whole new discussion, but I'm tired of people talking about tweeting and calling it "tweeting" with quotation marks.  It's like if I was talking about how Jordan Rudess likes to play a "keytar" on stage because I want to refer to them in a derisive way.*  Tweeting is the proper name for the activity.  Why inject other stuff into it?

*I think keytars are kinda cool actually.  I just wanted an example that worked in context.

[SystematicThought]

 
I'm sorry. I just hate saying tweeting, it just  sounds stupid to me, so I put it in quotation marks. Same as saying lol. I don't feel right saying it, so I put it in quotation marks when I use it. Sorry

[robwebster]

Yeah, I'll second Systematic on not being a fan of twitter lingo. Think it's really corny. I do say "retweet" as there isn't really a regular-English equivalent, but I'll usually use "said on twitter" or "posted" rather than "tweeted." I do get how insistently putting "tweeted" into inverted commas makes it look a bit sneery... but, I figure that's kind of the point.

[Chrissalix]

Yeah, I'll second Systematic on not being a fan of twitter lingo. Think it's really corny. I do say "retweet" as there isn't really a regular-English equivalent, but I'll usually use "said on twitter" or "posted" rather than "tweeted." I do get how insistently putting "tweeted" into inverted commas makes it look a bit sneery... but, I figure that's kind of the point.

It filters into other languages as well. Retweeter is a widely used french verb now. Such ballbag.

Well you could say that Mike was blinded by his hunger and couldn't tell his days were numbered.

Nuggetz

[TAC]

Well, he was kind of passive aggressive. He tweeted shortly after he left A7X that "The only people you can trust is your family" or something like that. He didn't need to 'tweet' that either

I know I'm being lame and starting a whole new discussion, but I'm tired of people talking about tweeting and calling it "tweeting" with quotation marks.  It's like if I was talking about how Jordan Rudess likes to play a "keytar" on stage because I want to refer to them in a derisive way.*  Tweeting is the proper name for the activity.  Why inject other stuff into it?

*I think keytars are kinda cool actually.  I just wanted an example that worked in context.

Keytars are cool, as was your "use" of it.
 

[hurricane]

I think Avenged Sevenfold was probably totally honest with Mike Portnoy. I don't think they misled him into believing it would be a permanent position. The band had been together for so long and there was a lot of grief still there from Jimmy's death. I have seem M Shadows in many interviews and he seems like a very honest person and he doesn't care what people think about him - he just wants to make music and be true to himself. Jimmy contributed to a lot of the writing on Nightmare and even though Mike is a great musician, his writing style might not be what they wanted. And since the rest of the band is so close, it was probably really hard to not be considered an outsider. After Jimmy died, A7X released a message that they would complete Nightmare, because that is what Jimmy wanted, but they didn't know  what they would do after that. It wasn't even clear that they would stay together.
Mike took a risk at what seemed like a great career opportunity, which was probably a good decision, but I think he knew the risks when he took the job.
If you quit your job where you have worked for years to take a higher paying job, you know that you are in danger of losing that job as the most junior member. It has happened to a lot of people.

[bosk1]

...psychoanalyze MP about his decisions is immature, which shouldn't really be surprising.

This is my issue with A7X, they want to paint the picture this rock star showed up and tried to elbow his way into the fold, but we were having none of it.

They haven't done any such thing, either in that interview or anywhere else that I've seen, so stop posting things that are false and presenting them as fact.  That's call slander.  Knock it off immediately.

[Faustusmedea]

...psychoanalyze MP about his decisions is immature, which shouldn't really be surprising.

This is my issue with A7X, they want to paint the picture this rock star showed up and tried to elbow his way into the fold, but we were having none of it.

They haven't done any such thing, either in that interview or anywhere else that I've seen, so stop posting things that are false and presenting them as fact.  That's call slander.  Knock it off immediately.

"I think his intentions were pretty clear that he wanted to be a member of AVENGED SEVENFOLD. But we weren't ready to have a new member."

I'm pretty sure the truth is an absolute defense to slander/defamation charges but this line pretty much reiterates what I said.

[Jarlaxle]

Whats with all the people getting into small arguments with bosk recently?

[orcus116]

Why can't a man defend himself when accusations are brought up against him?

[The Presence of Frenemies]

...psychoanalyze MP about his decisions is immature, which shouldn't really be surprising.

This is my issue with A7X, they want to paint the picture this rock star showed up and tried to elbow his way into the fold, but we were having none of it.

They haven't done any such thing, either in that interview or anywhere else that I've seen, so stop posting things that are false and presenting them as fact.  That's call slander.  Knock it off immediately.

"I think his intentions were pretty clear that he wanted to be a member of AVENGED SEVENFOLD. But we weren't ready to have a new member."

I'm pretty sure the truth is an absolute defense to slander/defamation charges but this line pretty much reiterates what I said.

Don't think that backs up what you said.

To take this logic to an extreme: Let's say, hypothetically, that I want to replace James as DT's singer. Of course, Dream Theater isn't ready to fire the voice of their band for a random 21-year-old with average vocal skills.

So, in this hypothetical, DT could come out and say "TPOF clearly wanted to become our new singer, but we weren't ready to fire James for him." Absolutely true, but that doesn't mean I did anything wrong, assumed a "rock star" persona, tried to "elbow my way in" etc. Just means I had a pie-in-the-sky desire, and nothing more.

The error here is that you're taking a factual statement and assigning plausible but stretched negative connotations to it. That's a pretty slippery slope.

But...I'll get out of the way of the mods.

[orcus116]

But it's a music forum that none of the aforementioned parties will see nor give two shits about the opinions of. Who cares?

[BlobVanDam]

But it's a music forum that none of the aforementioned parties will see nor give two shits about the opinions of. Who cares?

The most beautiful words you have ever uttered upon this forum.

[ariich]

...psychoanalyze MP about his decisions is immature, which shouldn't really be surprising.

This is my issue with A7X, they want to paint the picture this rock star showed up and tried to elbow his way into the fold, but we were having none of it.

They haven't done any such thing, either in that interview or anywhere else that I've seen, so stop posting things that are false and presenting them as fact.  That's call slander.  Knock it off immediately.

"I think his intentions were pretty clear that he wanted to be a member of AVENGED SEVENFOLD. But we weren't ready to have a new member."

I'm pretty sure the truth is an absolute defense to slander/defamation charges but this line pretty much reiterates what I said.

Yes, they said that his intentions were pretty clear. They didn't psychoanalyse, they didn't say a thing about immaturity, and they didn't say a thing about being a big rock star trying to elbow his way in. You've taken a very simple statement and extrapolated a load of made-up nonsense from it. That's what bosk was referring to.

[robwebster]

But it's a music forum that none of the aforementioned parties will see nor give two shits about the opinions of. Who cares?

With respect, where does any of this come from?

Very dangerous to presume you're in a vacuum. James LaBrie, for one, definitely reads this board. He's cryptically pointed it out on Twitter as many times. And that's... kind of obvious, when you think about it. If someone set up a website called "Orcus116 Forums," and it became the biggest dedicated Orcus116 website on the internet, I'd defy you not to read it. It's interesting.

Not to mention, Mike Portnoy is definitely a man who deeply cares about his public perception, and is known to be net-savvy. Yes, I'm pretty sure that'd include a website that's dedicated to a band he spent a quarter of a century leading from the front. He might try to limit it, but Mike Portnoy's idea of an extended break from the internet seems to last about two weeks. The odd poke around is almost inevitable.

I suppose what I'm saying is, if what someone's saying is so rude that they need to rationalise that the person they're discussing will probably never read it, they should probably think twice about publishing it as a matter of public record on an online compendium of quotes about that person's career. Or! Just accept that you don't really care whether they read it or not. Whichever's easiest. But I wouldn't bother rationalising "oh it's probably fine."

Er, this presuming the "two parties" are Mike Portnoy and Avenged Sevenfold. If not, then I definitely lost track of the conversation about a page ago.

[hefdaddy42]

More likely is that some of A7X liked the idea of bringing on a seasoned vet and others saw a threat to the path they had created. In that environment, they probably put out mixed signals which MP took too far, too quickly. This is my issue with A7X, they want to paint the picture this rock star showed up and tried to elbow his way into the fold, but we were having none of it.

All of this is pure speculation.

[rumborak]

Yeah, that scenario sounds very sketchy, and too anti-A7X tbh.
In my one-line summary, essentially 90% of how this all went down was MP's doing. He massively misjudged his situation in both A7X and DT, partly because he had lost touch with them. When he then tried a rather gutsy move,  both A7X and DT recoiled and put themselves at distance with him. He's not the first, and won't be the last, leader that has happened to.

rumborak

[bosk1]

Yeah, that scenario sounds very sketchy, and too anti-A7X tbh.
In my one-line summary, essentially 90% of how this all went down was MP's doing. He massively misjudged his situation in both A7X and DT, partly because he had lost touch with them. When he then tried a rather gutsy move,  both A7X and DT recoiled and put themselves at distance with him. He's not the first, and won't be the last, leader that has happened to.

rumborak

I quote this post merely as an example of the "right" way to go about posting on the subject without exaggerating and reading in a lot of extra fiction as Faustusmedea, for example, has done with his posts.

Carry on.

[rumborak]

Regarding A7X, I was actually very surprised at how even-keeled their responses have been. I can also completely understand their decision. They are a fairly new band which had a major shakeup (Rev's death) and who were trying to generate positive, forward-looking momentum. The last thing they needed was being dragged into a drama generated by a temp drummer. I'm also pretty convinced that A7X would have extended MP's contract until the rest of the tour hadn't it been for the DT drama. They needed to get rid of MP, and the conclusion of the initial contract was the perfect opportunity since then they didn't need to say the real reasons. MP used the "regular contract conclusion" argument, but other that Eddie Trunk and a few others nobody bought that.

rumborak

[bjackson87]

Portnoy is so drama, he's like a one man episode of Jersey Shore

[Jalis]

Portnoy is so drama, he's like a one man episode of Jersey Shore

+1

[bosk1]

That will be quite enough of that.  Both of you, consider yourselves warned.