Author Topic: Honor Thy Father (vs) The Best of Times (Read 11200 times)

IdoSC · « **Reply #35 on:** July 23, 2011, 03:40:07 PM »

Quote from: Samara on July 23, 2011, 03:33:10 PM

Quote from: IdoSC on July 23, 2011, 03:22:25 PM
lyrics are rather heartwarming
I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I'm just going to speak my opinion. I respect the lyrics of TBOT for what they stand for, as they obviously mean a lot to Mike, and it does fit the context of the song well, but with all that being said, the lyrics from a literary persective are pretty damn awful, I'd say along with TCOT, they are the worst lyrics DT has ever done.

Maybe I'm wrong, but with these two songs, it seems as though there was literally no effort put into the writing of them what so ever. What happened to the majestic poetry of A Change of Seasons or Innocenc Faded? With TBOT and TCOT we weren't given poetry, but rather sentences strung together to form a song. In conclusion, I just hate these lyrics lol.

(all imo)

I completely agree with you. That's why I carefully said "heartwarming" and not "great". The lyrics seem as if his father's death turned Mike to a child again, and it's reflected lyrically (and instrumentally by the whole band).

The lyrics might be rather pathetic and childish from an objective point of view, but to me that's part of the magic in this song - it's about paying homage to Mike's whole lifetime with his father, and that's why it's so relieving and heartwarming for me to hear this song.

I completely agree about BCSL though, I really hate the lyrics on this album generally. The only lyrics I kinda like are Wither (as "heartwarming" doesn't mean I appreciate the childish lyrics of TBOT; it's just a little cute and complimenting the song and the atmosphere), and those lyrics talk about writer's block for god's sake. I'm glad we got some better lyrics in OTBOA.

That's also why I put BCSL as number 10 in this thread.

Jaffa · « **Reply #36 on:** July 23, 2011, 07:48:47 PM »

Honor Thy Father by far, for me. I've always found TBOT to be pretty boring, for the most part. I get that it's got sentimental lyrics and everything, but I just don't think it stands very strong musically.

Cool that the poll's so close, though.

Jirpo · « **Reply #37 on:** July 23, 2011, 07:50:10 PM »

Honor Thy Father, but both are good.

Zook · « **Reply #38 on:** July 23, 2011, 07:52:40 PM »

Quote from: Samara on July 23, 2011, 01:08:59 PM

Quote from: Zook on July 23, 2011, 12:55:04 PM
Honor Thy Father by a miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and mi
Nugget?

If there's a nugget, only you know about it.

Quote from: Samara on July 23, 2011, 03:33:10 PM

Quote from: IdoSC on July 23, 2011, 03:22:25 PM
lyrics are rather heartwarming
I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I'm just going to speak my opinion. I respect the lyrics of TBOT for what they stand for, as they obviously mean a lot to Mike, and it does fit the context of the song well, but with all that being said, the lyrics from a literary persective are pretty damn awful, I'd say along with TCOT, they are the worst lyrics DT has ever done.

Maybe I'm wrong, but with these two songs, it seems as though there was literally no effort put into the writing of them what so ever. What happened to the majestic poetry of A Change of Seasons or Innocenc Faded? With TBOT and TCOT we weren't given poetry, but rather sentences strung together to form a song. In conclusion, I just hate these lyrics lol.

(all imo)

You best shut yo hole, PetDick.

Jamesman42 · « **Reply #39 on:** July 23, 2011, 07:58:42 PM »

I'll get my peace of mind when you hear this song lol

TBOT guitar solo > HTF > TBOT

Zook · « **Reply #40 on:** July 23, 2011, 08:13:49 PM »

The guitar solo isn't that interesting.

Then again, it's attached to an uninteresting song.

Metrovarium · « **Reply #41 on:** July 23, 2011, 08:43:34 PM »

I enjoy both quite a bit, but I like TBOT better, if only because of the ending solo. And because I don't care much for JLB's "rapping" in HTF.

The Presence of Frenemies · « **Reply #42 on:** July 23, 2011, 08:50:07 PM »

Quote from: IdoSC on July 23, 2011, 03:22:25 PM

TBOT.

It's more emotional, it's a wonderful song, structured amazingly, touching, lyrics are rather heartwarming. JP's solo is incredible, LaBrie's singing is very touching, and for one I truly appreciate MP's backing vocals. The best song out of BCSL imo.
HTF is aggressive, the lyrics are rather immature (and it's also one of the only songs where they pointlessly 'swear'), the instrumental section/that section with the samples is kinda boring.

In short: TBOT is a top 10 DT song, HTF is barely a top 50 song. IMO.

This.

ghostnotes · « **Reply #43 on:** July 23, 2011, 08:59:25 PM »

HTF. So many people in here crossing the crooked step. Not even funny.

farsight · « **Reply #44 on:** July 23, 2011, 11:15:13 PM »

IMO: TBOT guitar intro > The Spirit of Radio guitar intro, can't say that for the rest of the song though except maybe outro
I'm an Alex Lifeson fan, but the SPoR intro sounds like a choking guitar compared to JP's.
that being said, it's TBOT for me. just wish it would get the hollow years live treatment and get revised into a tighter song. too bad that wont possibly happen now.

darkshot · « **Reply #45 on:** July 24, 2011, 12:50:37 AM »

Quote from: farsight on July 23, 2011, 11:15:13 PM

IMO: TBOT guitar intro > The Spirit of Radio guitar intro, can't say that for the rest of the song though except maybe outro
I'm an Alex Lifeson fan, but the SPoR intro sounds like a choking guitar compared to JP's.
that being said, it's TBOT for me. just wish it would get the hollow years live treatment and get revised into a tighter song. too bad that wont possibly happen now.

I always thought those parts sounded similar... were they intentionally trying to imitate Spirit of Radio?

I like both songs, but I think Honor Thy Father is more fun to listen to, so many good riffs in that song. TBOT is a nice song but it is kinda depressing sometimes, imagining MP singing it to his father in the last months of his life... It has its place but its not something I'd want to put on a playlist for rotation, it totally brings any mood down.

hefdaddy42 · « **Reply #46 on:** July 24, 2011, 08:58:48 AM »

I like Honor Thy Father quite a bit more than The Best of Times.

yorost · « **Reply #47 on:** July 24, 2011, 09:40:27 AM »

Honor Thy Father has gone from a song I hated to one I love.

The Best of Times I loved right from the start ...but now my opinion is starting to degrade a little.

A few months ago it probably would have been a wash or The Best of Time. Now it's Honor Thy Father, easily.

Scrub206 · « **Reply #48 on:** July 24, 2011, 09:53:48 AM »

Quote from: Adami on July 23, 2011, 02:37:10 PM

TBOT.

Not sure why so many people end up being able to look past TCOT's lyrics, but can't see past TBOT's lyrics.

... why would anyone in their right mind want to do this >: |

wolfking · « **Reply #49 on:** July 24, 2011, 03:36:00 PM »

Honor Thy Father, no competition.

YtseCullen · « **Reply #50 on:** July 24, 2011, 09:32:31 PM »

I love Honor Thy Father, it was one of the 1st DT songs I heard, and I loved it then and I still love it

dbrooks22 · « **Reply #51 on:** July 24, 2011, 09:57:23 PM »

HTF by a landslide.

DT is at their best in heavy, angry mode. (And at their worst in "sincere/cheesy" mode). HTF has great lyrics and quite possibly my favorite (albeit short) DT groove: jump to 3:16-3:38 and turn the bass up.

lithium112 · « **Reply #52 on:** July 24, 2011, 10:00:47 PM »

Definitely HTF. It captures the emotion of anger really well and is an example of an aggressive song done well. The riffs are tight and capture a lot of the heavy sound I love from DT.

When I listen to TBOT I just don't feel much at all. I like the guitar solo but I can't get into the rest of the song musically. I also can't relate to the lyrics at all because they're so specific. I don't see how MP could have written such awe-inspiring lyrics for ACOS and then done the complete opposite for TBOT. I feel really bad knocking this song since it's such a personally significant piece for MP, but I honestly feel like he's done much better.

Adami · « **Reply #53 on:** July 24, 2011, 10:02:23 PM »

Quote from: dbrooks22 on July 24, 2011, 09:57:23 PM

HTF by a landslide.

DT is at their best in heavy, angry mode. (And at their worst in "sincere/cheesy" mode). HTF has great lyrics and quite possibly my favorite (albeit short) DT groove: jump to 3:16-3:38 and turn the bass up.

Dude, DT are pretty awful at heavy angry.

pogoowner · « **Reply #54 on:** July 24, 2011, 10:04:07 PM »

Quote from: Adami on July 24, 2011, 10:02:23 PM

Quote from: dbrooks22 on July 24, 2011, 09:57:23 PM
HTF by a landslide.

DT is at their best in heavy, angry mode. (And at their worst in "sincere/cheesy" mode). HTF has great lyrics and quite possibly my favorite (albeit short) DT groove: jump to 3:16-3:38 and turn the bass up.

Dude, DT are pretty awful at heavy angry.

Agreed. They just sound like they're trying too hard most of the time, and failing to pull it off.

dbrooks22 · « **Reply #55 on:** July 24, 2011, 10:06:48 PM »

That's funny - that's how i feel about the cheesy stuff. "Walk beside You" and whatnot... these songs make me want to puke they sound so forced...

Adami · « **Reply #56 on:** July 24, 2011, 10:08:10 PM »

Quote from: dbrooks22 on July 24, 2011, 10:06:48 PM

That's funny - that's how i feel about the cheesy stuff. "Walk beside You" and whatnot... these songs make me want to puke they sound so forced...

lol that stuff is forced too.

It's not like if they're not good at sentimental stuff that they're amazing at angry. They're not great at either. DT haven't really been able to write any kind of emotion well since ACOS.

dbrooks22 · « **Reply #57 on:** July 24, 2011, 10:10:57 PM »

This is what i'm referring to... you can really feel the anger/emotion on HTF. I don't feel anything with DT's softer stuff. But each track on ToT really holds a lot of emotion. HTF drips with anger. TDS - you can feel the anguish that MP feels when he is looking in the mirror. And Endless Sacrifice - you can feel JP's frustration/disillusion.

Quote from: lithium112 on July 24, 2011, 10:00:47 PM

Definitely HTF. It captures the emotion of anger really well and is an example of an aggressive song done well. The riffs are tight and capture a lot of the heavy sound I love from DT.

When I listen to TBOT I just don't feel much at all. I like the guitar solo but I can't get into the rest of the song musically. I also can't relate to the lyrics at all because they're so specific. I don't see how MP could have written such awe-inspiring lyrics for ACOS and then done the complete opposite for TBOT. I feel really bad knocking this song since it's such a personally significant piece for MP, but I honestly feel like he's done much better.

Adami · « **Reply #58 on:** July 24, 2011, 10:12:26 PM »

I feel nothing on any of those songs, but it's obvious they were trying very VERY hard to make us feel that.

That's the difference, the songs written with the intention to sound angry. While on say Awake, the songs were angry, not trying to sound angry.

The Mirror has more emotion than TGP, TDS, TROAE and TSF put together.

dbrooks22 · « **Reply #59 on:** July 24, 2011, 10:13:07 PM »

not neccessarily angry - i'm referring to dark emotions of all kinds. This is what makes Awake so profound...

Adami · « **Reply #60 on:** July 24, 2011, 10:13:31 PM »

Quote from: dbrooks22 on July 24, 2011, 10:13:07 PM

not neccessarily angry - i'm referring to dark emotions of all kinds. This is what make Awake so profound...

Well we can agree on that last part.

wammabe · « **Reply #61 on:** July 24, 2011, 10:36:11 PM »

Honor Thy Father is bad-ass, it makes me want to head bang, but any kind of anger or dark emotion is made way better in Awake IMO.

Quote from: dbrooks22 on July 24, 2011, 10:06:48 PM

That's funny - that's how i feel about the cheesy stuff. "Walk beside You" and whatnot... these songs make me want to puke they sound so forced...

I think Dream Theater is better at making beautiful and emotional songs. However, I agree with you to some extent, I think that songs like I Walk Beside You, The Answer Lies Within, Wither, etc are not the best examples of Dream Theater's emotion.

SystematicThought · « **Reply #62 on:** July 24, 2011, 10:36:48 PM »

Quote from: Adami on July 24, 2011, 10:08:10 PM

It's not like if they're not good at sentimental stuff that they're amazing at angry. They're not great at either. DT haven't really been able to write any kind of emotion well since ACOS.

What about Disappear, James almost breaks down on LaB

Adami · « **Reply #63 on:** July 24, 2011, 10:37:49 PM »

Quote from: SystematicThought on July 24, 2011, 10:36:48 PM

Quote from: Adami on July 24, 2011, 10:08:10 PM
It's not like if they're not good at sentimental stuff that they're amazing at angry. They're not great at either. DT haven't really been able to write any kind of emotion well since ACOS.
What about Disappear, James almost breaks down on LaB

James is great on that song, but Rudess ruins it for me. I have no doubt that LaBrie really put it all in there, but I don't feel anything simply because of JR.

SystematicThought · « **Reply #64 on:** July 24, 2011, 10:42:14 PM »

I suppose. That keyboard patch he has does kind of overpower some of the emotion in the song. It's so odd how he got the idea for the song. It's definately a sad song overall

Adami · « **Reply #65 on:** July 24, 2011, 10:44:16 PM »

Quote from: SystematicThought on July 24, 2011, 10:42:14 PM

I suppose. That keyboard patch he has does kind of overpower some of the emotion in the song. It's so odd how he got the idea for the song. It's definately a sad song overall

I think I lose it at ..........the 2nd chorus? when JR does the fast runs. It just kills it.

He really needs to never do those again.

SystematicThought · « **Reply #66 on:** July 24, 2011, 10:46:58 PM »

Oh yeah, I know what you're talking about. I agree, it kind of seems out of place.

Gadough · « **Reply #67 on:** July 24, 2011, 11:08:51 PM »

Quote from: SystematicThought on July 23, 2011, 11:49:32 AM

I was afraid that someone was going to beat me to the punch, so I typed it up pretty fast. I would have said biological instead of real and it would have had more punctuation

That's...really funny for some reason.

probably because I've done that before too

abydos · « **Reply #68 on:** July 24, 2011, 11:12:41 PM »

HTF - good song overall.
TBOT - good intro, good solo and that's it.
HTF > TBOT

DarkEternalNight · « **Reply #69 on:** July 24, 2011, 11:56:17 PM »

I love Honor thy Father but I can't listen to The Best Of Times, it's the only song that gets me emotional.

News: Track-by-track video for Paralyzed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd5TbGbalPs&feature=youtu.be

Poll

Which is better (iyo)

Author Topic: Honor Thy Father (vs) The Best of Times (Read 11200 times)