Bomb Explosion in Oslo Norway outside the Govt building

[Kosmo]

This isn't important at all but I just found out that this guy plays World of Warcraft and there's a high possibility that I've played with him and talked to him.

Makes me sort of sick.

[Lotion]

1 out of 40 000 Norwegians got killed by that guy. It makes me sick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzULe3KSeBU&skipcontrinter=1 

The content of the video is strong, don't watch if you can't handle it.

This is how it looked like at the island. Corpses everywhere.

[Kosmo]

That video pretty much leaves you speechless.

[Lotion]

Yeah, and as far as I know this is the biggest killingspree in modern history. I'm speechless. Norway is known as the safest country in the world. Can't stop thinking about the pain the parents who have lost their kids are going through.

[lonestar]

Didnt find out about the kids till this morning. Broke my heart. My love goes out to any affected.

 

[Super Dude]

It's like a Tim McVeigh situation.

Interesting, I just posted a remark like this on another forum.  I hope he gets his due too.

[Guitalguy]

Hi people.

I'm from Norway. I knew two people that got killed at Utøya. Just got home from a memorial meeting, where we lit candles, and got together to remember them and share memories. There were many hundreds of people gathered in our small town, just for the sake of these two people and of course the 89 others.

Still I can't believe that anyone can possibly possess a amount of evil this big, and be able to kill almost 100 innocent young people. Norway is known for being a safe and open country, and our prime minister and government have been clear on that is shall remain that way. "We shall not be threatened to silence." We are a small nation, but a strong nation. We stand united against such evil, and will fight together for Norway to remain an open and safe democracy.

It has been quite difficult to watch the news the last 24 hours, and to hear about people you actually know being killed in a terror act. The killer actually lived just an hour from here, and I have been to the small town he is from because most of my family lives there.

My thoughts go out to the families and friends of the casualties. A lot of my friends were close friends with the two who died from my town, though I was not that close to them myself. And it has been quite difficult to talk about it, and to deal with it.

It is also great to see such support and love from people all over the world, like here. Thank you all.

[Kosmo]

Apparently he planned it for years. Says he wanted a revolution.

[ZBomber]

Absolutely horrible.

[Gorille85]

Fuck.

[XJDenton]

Hi people.

I'm from Norway. I knew two people that got killed at Utøya. Just got home from a memorial meeting, where we lit candles, and got together to remember them and share memories. There were many hundreds of people gathered in our small town, just for the sake of these two people and of course the 89 others.

Still I can't believe that anyone can possibly possess a amount of evil this big, and be able to kill almost 100 innocent young people. Norway is known for being a safe and open country, and our prime minister and government have been clear on that is shall remain that way. "We shall not be threatened to silence." We are a small nation, but a strong nation. We stand united against such evil, and will fight together for Norway to remain an open and safe democracy.

It has been quite difficult to watch the news the last 24 hours, and to hear about people you actually know being killed in a terror act. The killer actually lived just an hour from here, and I have been to the small town he is from because most of my family lives there.

My thoughts go out to the families and friends of the casualties. A lot of my friends were close friends with the two who died from my town, though I was not that close to them myself. And it has been quite difficult to talk about it, and to deal with it.

It is also great to see such support and love from people all over the world, like here. Thank you all.

Thoughts are with you all. And I hope your country maintains its spirit of tolerance and openness after all this. I would hate to see a fringe extremist destroy that in addition to the great losses you have already sustained.

[Gadough]

We are a small nation, but a strong nation. We stand united against such evil, and will fight together for Norway to remain an open and safe democracy.

Fuck yeah.

Our thoughts are with you. Stay strong.

[nikatapi]

This tragedy is beyond imagination, i can't understand how sick a man can be to do such things.
My thoughts are with the families and friends of the casualties.

[bosk1]

Didnt find out about the kids till this morning. Broke my heart. My love goes out to any affected.   

Same.  I've been wanting to respond all day, but just haven't had the words.

Well I'm not going to jump on the "let's make him suffer!" bandwagon. But I'm very curious what his motivation was.

Well, I don't think "let's make him suffer" is ever appropriate.  But as far as his motivation, why does that even matter?  Is there any motivation that justifies or mitigates what he did?

[Adami]

Motivation is extremely important. In fact I'd say it's equally as important as the action itself, if not more so.


That's not to say "I wonder what the motivation is because I want to find a way to justify it". It doesn't matter if his motivation is justified, which is wouldn't be, but it's still very important.




"Why?" Is one of the most important questions.

[bosk1]

Well, I realize that in an indirect way, I am sort of playing right into your argument by even asking this question, but...why is it important?  I'm not following you at all.

[Adami]

Well, I realize that in an indirect way, I am sort of playing right into your argument by even asking this question, but...why is it important?  I'm not following you at all.

I don't follow how it's not important?

How can anything be learned from this if we don't know why he did it?



Plus, aren't you a lawyer? Isn't motivation pretty much a huge deal for you guys?


I guess I'm just not one of those "Oh my god look what he did, let's punish him right away!" kind of guys. I like to know more, as opposed to just not caring.

[bosk1]

How can anything be learned from this if we don't know why he did it?

Sometimes, the lesson to be learned is simply, sometimes people just do really bad things.

[ZBomber]

I don't think there could ever be any reason good enough to justify what he did, but I, too, would like to know WHY he did it. Won't change my opinion on anything, but I'm curious how/why someone would do something this horrible to children.

[Adami]

I don't think there could ever be any reason good enough to justify what he did, but I, too, would like to know WHY he did it. Won't change my opinion on anything, but I'm curious how/why someone would do something this horrible to children.

Exactly.


I'm asking for a motive, not a justification. Life isn't as simple as "bad people do bad things, good people do bad things". Everyone is complex and has motivation for things they do. When someone does something like this, it's not random, the motivation must be known.



What would it have been like if we had no idea why 9/11 happened? If we just left it at "well those bad people did something bad"?

[bosk1]

Life isn't as simple as "bad people do bad things, good people do bad things". Everyone is complex and has motivation for things they do. When someone does something like this, it's not random, the motivation must be known.

I know it's not as simple as "bad people do bad things."  But when you come right down to it, nothing beyond that really matters in some situations, such as this one.

What would it have been like if we had no idea why 9/11 happened? If we just left it at "well those bad people did something bad"?

Well, it pretty much does just boil down to that.  Yes, you can look deeper into the motivations.  But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter.

[Adami]

I guess that's where we differ. You don't care about why people do things, and I do. Not much of a point arguing past that as we've already reached our difference in principles.

[bosk1]

I guess that's where we differ. You don't care about why people do things, and I do. Not much of a point arguing past that as we've already reached our difference in principles.

Pretty much.  But I'll just clarify just a bit:  I'm not saying motivations never matter.  But in the two examples you gave (i.e., 9/11 and Oslo), I don't feel they matter nearly as much as you feel they do. 

[Adami]

That's cool. I have 0 desire to make anyone believe what I believe.

[Super Dude]

I guess the main reason why you'd want to figure out what this guy's motives were would be for the same reason as the 9/11 example, at least in my mind: to determine if it's an isolated incident or a sign of something bigger on the horizon.  Like I guess some people look at this guy and see a nut, I see growing resentment of not only Islam but of Eastern peoples (esp. brown people) in the Western sphere, and of a different flavor than reaction to terrorism.

[bosk1]

Okay, well that makes sense.

[jimbosile]

How could you possibly think his motives are irrelevant?

[Guitalguy]

His defender has told us that his motives were political, obviously. He's a right-wing extremist, and he wanted to make as much damage as possible to the Labour Party, who's in charge now. And he wanted to do that by killing their recruites, and scaring people to support them.

This was all part of a "revolutionary" plan which he called "A European Declaration of Independence". He had written a 1500 pages long document on how everything was going to happen step by step.

This video is something he posted right before the attacks along with the documents. Youtube says you have to be over 18 years of age.
https://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Df8r6neCEwuM
I haven't watched it myself yet, but I've pretty much had it summoned up on the news. I haven't really heard about anything else the past days.

Yesterday my town Hamar in Norway gathered for some sort of memorial march through the town. We were about 20 000 people. And our town has about 30 000 inhabitants. In Oslo, about 150 000 people showed up. Every town in Norway did this last night. Alt least it shows there is some hope for humanity after all. One of the survivors of the Utøya attack put it very well in my opinion: "If one man can show this much hate, think of how much love we all can show together."

By the way, I highly recommend you to read this article. I think it really expresses what it is I'm trying to say. You don't even have to read it, just look at the pictures.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018368/Norway-massacre-150k-gather-Oslo-rose-march-tribute.html

[Lotion]

He wrote a 1500 pages manifest where he presents his vision, how he prepared for the attack and a diary. Everything from how to get weapons to how he made the bomb. He's been working on it over 9 years. The Labour Party is really immigrant-friendly, and he hates muslims. He's afraid of islamization of Europe. The manifest is a weird read, he goes from writing really reflected to using "lol", "<3", "" etc.

Quote from the manifest.

"A usual day for me involves email farming, writing, sharing “moderate” resources from my book on debate groups to coach fellow cultural conservatives, smoking, eating chocolate lol, taking a daily 1 hour walk/motivational meditation and doing some occasional battlegrounds in WoW on my badass Horde resto druid. I just completed Dragon Age Origins not long ago. A brilliant game! It’s important to have fun a few hours every day. I regret to admit that I’ve become a notorious downloader of pirated movies, series and games etc. but have noticed that an increasing number of sites have been closed down lately. Stealing is bad, I admit, but then again, when you have devoted your entire life to a good cause you can allow yourself some naughtiness especially if it can contribute to conserve your funds, cough. Yes, yes, no ones perfect:P"

 

I mean.. what kind of guy is this?

[jsem]

He wrote a 1500 pages manifest where he presents his vision, how he prepared for the attack and a diary. Everything from how to get weapons to how he made the bomb. He's been working on it over 9 years. The Labour Party is really immigrant-friendly, and he hates muslims. He's afraid of islamization of Europe. The manifest is a weird read, he goes from writing really reflected to using "lol", "<3", "" etc.

Quote from the manifest.

"A usual day for me involves email farming, writing, sharing “moderate” resources from my book on debate groups to coach fellow cultural conservatives, smoking, eating chocolate lol, taking a daily 1 hour walk/motivational meditation and doing some occasional battlegrounds in WoW on my badass Horde resto druid. I just completed Dragon Age Origins not long ago. A brilliant game! It’s important to have fun a few hours every day. I regret to admit that I’ve become a notorious downloader of pirated movies, series and games etc. but have noticed that an increasing number of sites have been closed down lately. Stealing is bad, I admit, but then again, when you have devoted your entire life to a good cause you can allow yourself some naughtiness especially if it can contribute to conserve your funds, cough. Yes, yes, no ones perfect:P"

 

I mean.. what kind of guy is this?

That's in the manifest? LOL. I thought that manifest was supposed to be serious.

I have to read that 1500 page document

[Lotion]

That's in the manifest? LOL. I thought that manifest was supposed to be serious.

I have to read that 1500 page document

Yeah. It's 1500 pages of a lot copy/paste from the internet, with a lot of conservative bullcrap, a lot about his life, his experencies with muslims, ingredients to bombs etc. He seems to really love himself and think he is Europes saviour.