Has Labrie started using harmonizer live?

[jonny108]

You can check bootleg from Moscow on Dimeadozen, it's great.
And this harmony thing is great, better than effect that is used last year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3AcVkFZxlo

From watching that video I can see just how much better and fresh DT sound now.

[King Postwhore]

I don't see a problem at all.  Rush has done this for a long long time.

[bairrock]

You can check bootleg from Moscow on Dimeadozen, it's great.
And this harmony thing is great, better than effect that is used last year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3AcVkFZxlo

From watching that video I can see just how much better and fresh DT sound now.

Completely agree man!  The fire was dying with Portnoy.  DT needed this change soooo badly!

[pbluephoenix]

I don't see a problem at all.  Rush has done this for a long long time.

There isn`t a problem, only speculation!  

[El Barto]

I don't see a problem at all.  Rush has done this for a long long time.

I don't' have a problem with triggering background vocals, UNLESS, you have the other guys lip sync.  If you want it to look like Lifeson is singing, fine, but I'd rather have raw vocals in that case.  If you want perfect vocals, then just trigger them and don't try to con people. 

Queensryce are the biggest perpetrators of that, BTW.  Quite annoying, honestly.  I understand the EJ has a great voice.  I'd rather hear authentic live vox.

As for DT, it's certainly not the first time they've used canned backing vocals.  Check out the Bucharest DVD.  Since we know they didn't use clicks back then, you have to assume the JR or MP triggers them.

[KevShmev]

I think, in the case of Rush, Lifeson does sing most of the time, but his mic is turned way down to where you can barely hear him (which is a good thing if you've ever heard Alex sing ), because they also trigger Geddy's background vocals at the same time.  At least that's what I remember reading a while back.

[El Barto]

I think, in the case of Rush, Lifeson does sing most of the time, but his mic is turned way down to where you can barely hear him (which is a good thing if you've ever heard Alex sing ), because they also trigger Geddy's background vocals at the same time.  At least that's what I remember reading a while back.

There are times where it's completely pointless, though.  Why would AL even pretend to say SUBDIVISIONS with that big, booming voice coming out of the PA?   

[MykeHavoc]

It could also be one of their sound guys triggering a harmonizer. They can be a pain in the ass to remember to be by when you need them. Doesn't JP's guitar tech change a lot of his settings off stage?

[Adami]

It could also be one of their sound guys triggering a harmonizer. They can be a pain in the ass to remember to be by when you need them. Doesn't JP's guitar tech change a lot of his settings off stage?

Maybe now adays, but the last on stage tour they did (which was just a few years ago) JP showed his massive pedal board that he operates.

[RaiseTheKnife]

Now I remember:  JR  CONFIRMED in his lengthy online podcast with that Turkish guy that it is indeed SAMPLEWIZ that will provide background vocals to a few DT songs on the tour.

[John94]

If I remember correctly, JR didn't really confirm, only showed an example of himself doing the "day after day" bit, which he said was "interesting."

[bosk1]

Possible they are playing to a click, in which case the backing vocals are already there.  But personally, I think it's more likely they are triggered by Rudess, Mangini, or a tech/sound guy.  Rudess could do it through any of a number of his gadgets.  I forget what the thing is that Mangini uses, but he has a gizmo (or a few) on his kit that does samples, so all he has to do is hit whichever pad has the sample loaded up to trigger it.  Could be him.  Or could just be a tech offstage doing it.  That is common as well.  Either way, it doesn't bother me.  One of the first things that came to my mind when I found out Portnoy was leaving was that they need to find a drummer who can sing, because they are losing a backup vocalist, and I was worried about the vocals sounding thin where they are supposed to have backing vox.  If they are triggering the vox, they're covered, so I'm happy.

[Nick]

By comparing the lengths of various songs from the first two shows on the tour (taking into effect the actual played length, not the length of the track), I can say without a doubt Dream Theater are not using a click track.

[GuineaPig]

I really dislike triggered vocals.

I dislike it even more if the bands try and pretend like they aren't using them when they are.

[Adami]

I really dislike triggered vocals.

I dislike it even more if the bands try and pretend like they aren't using them when they are.

I play to backing tracks in one of my bands, but it's for keys that the singer can't play live. I agree about using triggered vocals live.


But how are they supposed to not pretend like they aren't using it? Announce it right before/after the part?

[GuineaPig]

I really dislike triggered vocals.

I dislike it even more if the bands try and pretend like they aren't using them when they are.

I play to backing tracks in one of my bands, but it's for keys that the singer can't play live. I agree about using triggered vocals live.


But how are they supposed to not pretend like they aren't using it? Announce it right before/after the part?

Well, it's just something that really annoys me when Rush does it.  Lifeson's miming the words to a triggered Geddy vocal sample.  I mean, if you're going to use triggered vocals, use triggered vocals, but don't pretend like you're singing them live.

[King Postwhore]

I don't see a problem at all.  Rush has done this for a long long time.

I don't' have a problem with triggering background vocals, UNLESS, you have the other guys lip sync.  If you want it to look like Lifeson is singing, fine, but I'd rather have raw vocals in that case.  If you want perfect vocals, then just trigger them and don't try to con people. 

Queensryce are the biggest perpetrators of that, BTW.  Quite annoying, honestly.  I understand the EJ has a great voice.  I'd rather hear authentic live vox.

As for DT, it's certainly not the first time they've used canned backing vocals.  Check out the Bucharest DVD.  Since we know they didn't use clicks back then, you have to assume the JR or MP triggers them.

Like Kev said Alex sings but........    I'd rather hear true live vocals but for bands like Rush and in a smaller sense DT, it doesn't bother me as lets say dancing singers because they dance on every song.  

[7StringedBeast]

They are just triggered harmonies, not leads.  And very sparingly used.  JP does backing vocals still.  I don't see the big deal here.  JLB is still singing.  There just aren't 2 of him. 

[Adami]

I really dislike triggered vocals.

I dislike it even more if the bands try and pretend like they aren't using them when they are.

I play to backing tracks in one of my bands, but it's for keys that the singer can't play live. I agree about using triggered vocals live.


But how are they supposed to not pretend like they aren't using it? Announce it right before/after the part?

Well, it's just something that really annoys me when Rush does it.  Lifeson's miming the words to a triggered Geddy vocal sample.  I mean, if you're going to use triggered vocals, use triggered vocals, but don't pretend like you're singing them live.

That does sound rather lame. Luckily DT aren't quite there.

[SeventhSon]

If I remember correctly, JR didn't really confirm, only showed an example of himself doing the "day after day" bit, which he said was "interesting."

I need to see this.

[John94]

Check out the Jordan on Vokle thread. Someone provided an audio link to the 2 sessions. If you have patience, it's there a some point.

[Infinite Cactus]

I really dislike triggered vocals.

I dislike it even more if the bands try and pretend like they aren't using them when they are.

I play to backing tracks in one of my bands, but it's for keys that the singer can't play live. I agree about using triggered vocals live.


But how are they supposed to not pretend like they aren't using it? Announce it right before/after the part?

Well, it's just something that really annoys me when Rush does it.  Lifeson's miming the words to a triggered Geddy vocal sample.  I mean, if you're going to use triggered vocals, use triggered vocals, but don't pretend like you're singing them live.

Alex does sing with them. Sometimes he's just really quiet or buried under the Geddy samples. There is a web site that has isolated live Alex Lifeson vocals and they usually sound pretty decent, but defintiely not perfect.

[Nick]

I really dislike triggered vocals.

I dislike it even more if the bands try and pretend like they aren't using them when they are.

I play to backing tracks in one of my bands, but it's for keys that the singer can't play live. I agree about using triggered vocals live.


But how are they supposed to not pretend like they aren't using it? Announce it right before/after the part?

Well, it's just something that really annoys me when Rush does it.  Lifeson's miming the words to a triggered Geddy vocal sample.  I mean, if you're going to use triggered vocals, use triggered vocals, but don't pretend like you're singing them live.

Alex does sing with them. Sometimes he's just really quiet or buried under the Geddy samples. There is a web site that has isolated live Alex Lifeson vocals and they usually sound pretty decent, but defintiely not perfect.

Yeah, you're way off base Guinea. Alex is singing every time he steps up to the mic, and I have hundreds of bootlegs to prove this, however it's just usually REALLY low in the mix.

[King Postwhore]

Nick is dead on.  The website I think is called Rush Oddities or something like that.

[Infinite Cactus]

Nick is dead on.  The website I think is called Rush Oddities or something like that.

That's the one 

[wasp2020]

Triggered harmonized vocals are totally fine by me.

[jerome snail]

I don't see a problem at all.  Rush has done this for a long long time.

I don't' have a problem with triggering background vocals, UNLESS, you have the other guys lip sync. 

I saw SX doing that, and it was pretty lam IMO.
Still the concert was awesome.

[El Barto]

Yeah, you're way off base Guinea. Alex is singing every time he steps up to the mic, and I have hundreds of bootlegs to prove this, however it's just usually REALLY low in the mix.

I'm guessing he's singing about like Roger Waters is singing.  A small amount of him and a ton of prerecorded vocals to "prop him up."   I believe you if you say that Lifeson is singing any time he's at the mic,  but I know from my own experience that what the audience hears, they'll hear whether he's at the mic or not.  I just don't really see the point in this.  Why even bother if the only person who's going to hear it is the FoH guy sound guy?

[KevShmev]

It looks better visually to have a second guy singing at the mic.  Some might call it trying to fool the audience, but I don't see it that way. 

[Jalis]

I think its KM ...

 

[champbassist]

its definitely not mangini. i would guess backing tracks, unless they make harmonizers that can do that?

They do! and they are super awesome!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO4ycDEP9Ao

Indeed, that's SUPER awesome.

+1 That's amazing!

[bosk1]

It looks better visually to have a second guy singing at the mic.  Some might call it trying to fool the audience, but I don't see it that way. 

Depends.  I know it's just a matter of personal taste, but for me, as I've said, I don't mind a backing track in and of itself.  And I'm with you in that I would rather have someone else in the band also singing along.  So if you have a backup singer and a backing track, I'm cool with that.  I'm much less cool where you have someone just pretending to sing and not singing at all with just the backing track.  If you aren't singing, I don't want to see you lip syncing. 

And, again, while I don't think this is what we are still discussing, I hate it even more when the lead singer is lip syncing.  Need a backing track to help prop him/her up?  Okay.  If that's what it takes, do what you have to do to sound good.  Just don't fake it.

...although I guess neither of these scenarios take into account a situation where you have a singer that has an unexpected voice issue and can't sing.  Do you cancel the show, go on and fake it to a backing track, or go on and sound horrible?  I don't know what the right answer is.

[Perpetual Change]

It looks better visually to have a second guy singing at the mic.  Some might call it trying to fool the audience, but I don't see it that way.  

Depends.  I know it's just a matter of personal taste, but for me, as I've said, I don't mind a backing track in and of itself.  And I'm with you in that I would rather have someone else in the band also singing along.  So if you have a backup singer and a backing track, I'm cool with that.  I'm much less cool where you have someone just pretending to sing and not singing at all with just the backing track.  If you aren't singing, I don't want to see you lip syncing.  

And, again, while I don't think this is what we are still discussing, I hate it even more when the lead singer is lip syncing.  Need a backing track to help prop him/her up?  Okay.  If that's what it takes, do what you have to do to sound good.  Just don't fake it.

...although I guess neither of these scenarios take into account a situation where you have a singer that has an unexpected voice issue and can't sing.  Do you cancel the show, go on and fake it to a backing track, or go on and sound horrible?  I don't know what the right answer is.

None of that is applicable to this situation, though. James is very clearly singing along. The harmonizer is just there where it is on the albums. It's not like the harmonizer is singing the hard parts for him or something. He actually seems to be using it on parts that are probably really easy to sing, just to make them stick out more. Honestly, this harmonizer is so much better than that phaser effect James was using to fill out his voice on the last two tours.

[Dream Team]

I'm very against anything being non-live, except for maybe some non-vocal sound effects triggered by Jordan (thunderclaps for example). The simple reason is that that kind of crap is what you expect from flavor-of-the-week pop bands and smutty teenage "singers", not talented professional rock bands.

[El Barto]

...although I guess neither of these scenarios take into account a situation where you have a singer that has an unexpected voice issue and can't sing.  Do you cancel the show, go on and fake it to a backing track, or go on and sound horrible?  I don't know what the right answer is.

Go on and sound horrible.  Apologize profusely.  Come back at the end of the tour for a free makeup show.  I've seen it happen several times.  The fans don't get let down the day of a show they've been waiting months for.  They get to see a special show with the band trying to make up for a rotten singer.  They get to see a second show later with all the stops pulled out. 

The two for one I got because of Hetfield's annual tour injury was one of the coolest concert tickets I've ever bought.