Author Topic: The phone hacking scandal  (Read 2437 times)

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Offline chknptpie

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The phone hacking scandal
« on: July 19, 2011, 12:41:29 PM »
This thing is spinning out of control:

https://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/07/19/uk.phone.hacking.figures/index.html?iphoneemail

Politicians are involved, police officials are involved, Murdoch is getting pie in the face...


Offline MasterShakezula

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2011, 12:46:37 PM »
Looks like Murdoch's may have finally gotten into deeper shit than he could normally use money to float over. 

I'm hip to that. 

Offline Dublagent66

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2011, 08:26:46 AM »
It actually might have been news worthy if the guy would've landed the pie in his face.  He missed his face and even if he hadn't, the camera guy missed it anyway.  Double fail.
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Offline chknptpie

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2011, 08:51:50 AM »
I love the reactions on people's faces in that picture.

Do you think this scandal will affect anything for the US? Fox news?

Offline El Barto

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2011, 08:57:57 AM »
Nah.  They're [quite easily] portraying Rupert as the victim.  His wife's his Ninja protector.  His entire staff seems anxious to take one for the team.  Investigations as to their behavior stateside are being presented as a which hunt.  Most of all, who would care?  Half the people already think FOX is a joke as a news organization and the other half will never believe anything negative about them.
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Offline XJDenton

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2011, 09:04:05 AM »
The FBI is already investigating whether Fox News has been engaging in illegal activities. So this could potentially cause ripples in the US if things do come to light. Given Fox's journalistic record, It wouldn't surprise me if they had.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Offline chknptpie

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2011, 09:25:09 AM »
I know here TMZ is broadcast on my local fox station. Would TMZ be the US equivalent of News of the World?

Offline El Barto

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2011, 09:30:21 AM »
I suspect it's more akin to the National Enquirer.  However, NE doesn't have as much interest in politics, other than sex scandals,  so there really isn't an American equivalent. 
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline skydivingninja

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2011, 09:14:12 AM »
To be fair to Rupert Murdoch, he has a LOT of stuff to take care of.  Its obvious he can't be watching every little thing that goes on at each of his networks or newspapers.  He trusted the wrong people, clearly a mistake, but I feel like trying to paint it as "RUPER MURDOCH IS DOING THESE HORRIBLE THINGS" is just ignoring the hard facts we do have, which is that that Ms. Frizzle look-alike and her pals were doing horrible things.  Of course, if it turns out Murdoch was directly involved, then he's screwed.

Offline El Barto

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2011, 09:28:56 AM »
THE BUCK STOPS HERE four doors down thataway!

I agree that all of this probably happened well outside of his view, but if you want to be the head of a gazillion dollar organization, you've got to be the face of the bad things, as well. 
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Offline Scheavo

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2011, 11:52:01 AM »
To be fair to Rupert Murdoch, he has a LOT of stuff to take care of.  Its obvious he can't be watching every little thing that goes on at each of his networks or newspapers.  He trusted the wrong people, clearly a mistake, but I feel like trying to paint it as "RUPER MURDOCH IS DOING THESE HORRIBLE THINGS" is just ignoring the hard facts we do have, which is that that Ms. Frizzle look-alike and her pals were doing horrible things.  Of course, if it turns out Murdoch was directly involved, then he's screwed.

But it wasn't just one executive, it was numerous ones. Murdoch may not have ordered or been aware of the phone-hacking, but he certainly created the culture in which this was though to be acceptable. I mean, I've heard the red head was his protege, his business influence is all over this case. He is, or was, very involved in his news business.

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2011, 11:59:18 AM »
Oh I agree some blame lies with him based on who he hired, but I hardly think its fair for people to be screaming "bring down Murdoch!" for this.  He can apologize, he can offer compensation to those affected, but I think a lot of rage is directed at the wrong person in this case.  At least, that's what I've noticed among my liberal friends and media coverage that focuses more on Murdoch than the people who were actually involved.

To be fair to Rupert Murdoch, he has a LOT of stuff to take care of.  Its obvious he can't be watching every little thing that goes on at each of his networks or newspapers.  He trusted the wrong people, clearly a mistake, but I feel like trying to paint it as "RUPER MURDOCH IS DOING THESE HORRIBLE THINGS" is just ignoring the hard facts we do have, which is that that Ms. Frizzle look-alike and her pals were doing horrible things.  Of course, if it turns out Murdoch was directly involved, then he's screwed.

But it wasn't just one executive, it was numerous ones. Murdoch may not have ordered or been aware of the phone-hacking, but he certainly created the culture in which this was though to be acceptable. I mean, I've heard the red head was his protege, his business influence is all over this case. He is, or was, very involved in his news business.

To be honest, we don't know anything about the culture is at the Fox News office, the NotW office, or the Sun office, or any of those places.  So we can't really say for sure how much influence or pressure he put on getting good stories or results.  I wouldn't attribute the way he runs his business to be any grounds for blaming him for the phone-hacking scandal.  If those people felt too much pressure, or if a culture did arise that encouraged those sorts of tactics, they can always leave the company. 

If a CEO tells you to ignore a few transactions and you do it, and that company is taken to court, you're going to jail even if you were only doing what the CEO told you to do.  Simple business ethics.

Offline rumborak

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2011, 02:18:32 PM »
It's inconceivable that Murdoch didn't implicitly condone those actions. It's the overall environment you set up; it's whether you talk to your managers about high journalistic standards, or about how it is imperative to have the juiciest stories. He is know to do the latter. FOX is the same thing really.

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Offline Scheavo

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2011, 04:51:38 PM »
To be honest, we don't know anything about the culture is at the Fox News office, the NotW office, or the Sun office, or any of those places.  So we can't really say for sure how much influence or pressure he put on getting good stories or results.  I wouldn't attribute the way he runs his business to be any grounds for blaming him for the phone-hacking scandal.  If those people felt too much pressure, or if a culture did arise that encouraged those sorts of tactics, they can always leave the company. 

But we do know things about the culture crated at Fox News, NoTW, the Sun, and all of Murdoch's empire, it's untrue to say that we don't. We also have comparison between all of his media outlets, to each other and the rest of the media. There's plenty of examples, and a clear pattern showing News. Corp as yellow journalism. They don't care about the truth, they take things out of context, often to argue for the exact point the quote is making in context.

Quitting your job isn't easy for many people to do, you may not be able to find another job, or you can find one but you have to move, and etc, etc.

We know from Milgram's experiments how much authority can influence people's basic judgement. Business ethics seems a little unrealistic to me, especially in the case you point to.

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2011, 05:00:03 PM »
Do you have any sources about this corporate culture?  I haven't heard anything and when I'm given a bunch of vague clues about how things are supposedly like at News Corp. it doesn't really make me think otherwise.  Innocent til proven guilty and all that.

Yes, quitting isn't easy, but its preferable to going to jail and being shunned forever in the business world, wouldn't you say?  My dad did something like that.  He was asked to lie about his company's product to customers and he quit because he'd rather be unemployed for a few months rather than lose his job and basically be blacklisted due to his involvement. 

I know about Millgram's experiment as well, all business students learn something about ethics nowadays.  Yeah, authority has a lot of effect on people's judgment, but that doesn't mean people are left with no options.  There's always an option.  Maybe ethics just needs to be pushed more strongly in colleges to get that point across, since between Enron, Worldcom, and News Corp people haven't quite gotten the idea yet.  :P

Offline emindead

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2011, 08:01:18 PM »
Holy shit! Guys, look at this:

Headline: Twitter rages: Murdoch's Times of London famine cartoon 'most offensive' thing yet?

https://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/21/twitter-rages-murdochs-times-of-london-famine-cartoon-most-offensive-thing-yet/

Offline Scheavo

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2011, 08:40:58 PM »
Do you have any sources about this corporate culture?  I haven't heard anything and when I'm given a bunch of vague clues about how things are supposedly like at News Corp. it doesn't really make me think otherwise.  Innocent til proven guilty and all that.

My biggest source is their product, and the consistent lies and mistruths they proliferate. The movie "Out Foxed" also goes into some details about this, there's also a high-profile case involving growth hormones in cows and Monsanto, various other scandals, issues, etc. Never read a story specifically about it, but I'm sure there's something out there.


Quote
Yes, quitting isn't easy, but its preferable to going to jail and being shunned forever in the business world, wouldn't you say?  My dad did something like that.  He was asked to lie about his company's product to customers and he quit because he'd rather be unemployed for a few months rather than lose his job and basically be blacklisted due to his involvement. 

I know about Millgram's experiment as well, all business students learn something about ethics nowadays.  Yeah, authority has a lot of effect on people's judgment, but that doesn't mean people are left with no options.  There's always an option.  Maybe ethics just needs to be pushed more strongly in colleges to get that point across, since between Enron, Worldcom, and News Corp people haven't quite gotten the idea yet.  :P

You're missing some of the brunt of Milgram's experiment by putting it that way, though. When commands come from an authority figure, they are often not even seen as wrong, there's no desire to even have some other option. It's seen as ethical and okay because an authoritative figure is telling you to do it.

Also, interesint side note about that last sentence... psychopaths are 4x more likely to be the CEO of a major company then the general populace. I agree ethics should be taught more, but I think that's true of philosophy in general, and well before college.

Offline obscure

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2012, 04:23:28 AM »
I just learnt from Twitter that Satellite broadcaster BSkyB announced plans to create 1,300 jobs in UK... Do you think I'd stand a chance if I tell them that I'm a master in hacking  phones?  :)

Offline black_biff_stadler

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2012, 04:33:03 AM »
 :lol
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Offline obscure

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Re: The phone hacking scandal
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2012, 04:37:07 AM »
call me Rebekkah   :lol