Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS*

[TioJorge]

I love the GOTG scene with dancing baby plant. Very cute and heart-warming. I'm in the camp that doesn't mind if the scene isn't some bombshell that leads into another film or reveals something huge; but it's nice when it happens. For those wondering, the Howard The Duck scene isn't indicative of any movie at all and Gunn has said it was for fun. And no, I'm not linking you cause fuckin' Google takes all of ten seconds and I'm lazier than you.  That said, I wouldn't be surprised if it DID lead into something simply because his intentions don't really mean jack in the face of the behemoth that is Marvel; on the other hand, I also didn't really see any outcries over the fact that it was more or less an empty scene nor have I since seen any massive outcry for a Howard The Duck movie, especially since the original was a massive flop.

Time for a 15 hour day. WEDDINGS AND REDNECKS, WOOOOOOOH-*bang*

[hefdaddy42]

Oh, I would LOVE a Howard the Duck film, but I suspect that I am in the minority.

[bosk1]

I would be comfortable agreeing with your suspicion.    No desire for another Howard film, but the increasing Marvel nuggets are fun.

[hefdaddy42]

Please don't hold the dreck of that first Howard movie against the legendry of the character itself.  Blame that on George Lucas.

[bosk1]

I don't.  I just didn't much care for the character in general.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't.  I just didn't much care for the character in general.

That is certainly understandable.

But I don't see another film as likely.  Although I would love to see him turn up as a cameo in the next GOTG film, or even in interaction with Doctor Strange at some point.

But that's not gonna happen, either.

[bosk1]

I just wish they would pick up the pace on the schedule.  If it were up to me, I would want a new Agents of SHIELD episode every day and a new movie every month.

[hefdaddy42]

I just wish they would pick up the pace on the schedule.  If it were up to me, I would want a new Agents of SHIELD episode every day and a new movie every month.

I understand.

I am still behind one episode on Agents of SHIELD, so I will try to catch it tonight.

[bosk1]

I am still behind one episode on Agents of SHIELD, so I will try to catch it tonight.

Oh, CRAP!  I hope you didn't read my spoilers above.  If you know the Marvel comics universe, you will pick up on a lot of details from the reveal in the mid-season finale.

[hefdaddy42]

I am still behind one episode on Agents of SHIELD, so I will try to catch it tonight.

Oh, CRAP!  I hope you didn't read my spoilers above.  If you know the Marvel comics universe, you will pick up on a lot of details from the reveal in the mid-season finale.

I sped past them.  I don't think I know too much, although I think I have pieced some things together myself about what direction it may be going.

[chaossystem]

I will admit that there's a lot that I don't know about the story line that is supposedly running through these movies, but I'm pretty sure that the Accuser character in the the "Guardians" movie is supposed to be a Kree. If I'm right, then I'm also guessing that the Avengers, Guardians, and who knows who else are going to be involved in the "Kree-Skrull war" at some point.
If I'm right about that, then what I would like to see-even though they probably won't do it-is for the  new Fantastic Four movie to be a combining and re-telling of the first two issues of the original comic book series.
First tell their origin story right.
Then MAYBE have an encounter, or at least a brief mention of the Mole Man.
Then have that "first contact" with the Skrulls. Maybe even bring the Super Skrull into it.
Because after all, it was the F.F., in the second issue of their original series that FIRST encountered the Skrulls.

And speaking of that upcoming movie: I HATE the fact that this is going to make me sound like a racist, but I am getting sick of the way they they have to keep drastically  changing the physical appearance, or even the very ETHNICITY of so many of the key characters.
Such as the Kingpin in the Daredevil movie, and Johnny Storm in the upcoming F.F. movie. Or the fact that Ben Kingsley played the MANDARIN in Iron Man 3! Der! Shouldn't the NAME ALONE tell those imbeciles that the character is supposed to be Chinese? Or at least ASIAN???
But this isn't JUST about race: another example would be the previous two F.F. movies; Both Johnny Storm and Susan Storm/Richards didn't look ANYTHING like they do in the comic books, and they don't look NEARLY enough alike to be brother and sister! They could at least have dyed their hair blonde!

It would have made more sense appearance-wise to have John Myung play the Mandarin, Leonardo DeCaprio or Matt Damon play Johnny Storm, and Jessica Simpson play Susan Storm!!!

[Zantera]

I don't mind them changing the ethnicity of Johnny Storm, but I find it bizarre that they don't change it on Sue Storm as well. Just seems weird.

[hefdaddy42]

I will admit that there's a lot that I don't know about the story line that is supposedly running through these movies, but I'm pretty sure that the Accuser character in the the "Guardians" movie is supposed to be a Kree.

Yes, Ronan was a Kree.

If I'm right, then I'm also guessing that the Avengers, Guardians, and who knows who else are going to be involved in the "Kree-Skrull war" at some point.

Not that I'm aware of.  I don't think that Marvel will be using the Skrulls.

If I'm right about that, then what I would like to see-even though they probably won't do it-is for the  new Fantastic Four movie to be a combining and re-telling of the first two issues of the original comic book series.
First tell their origin story right.
Then MAYBE have an encounter, or at least a brief mention of the Mole Man.
Then have that "first contact" with the Skrulls. Maybe even bring the Super Skrull into it.
Because after all, it was the F.F., in the second issue of their original series that FIRST encountered the Skrulls.

Most likely none of that is happening in the new FF movie.  Unlike Marvel Studios, Fox doesn't care that much about faithfulness to ideas from the actual comics. 

And speaking of that upcoming movie: I HATE the fact that this is going to make me sound like a racist, but I am getting sick of the way they they have to keep drastically  changing the physical appearance, or even the very ETHNICITY of so many of the key characters.
Such as the Kingpin in the Daredevil movie, and Johnny Storm in the upcoming F.F. movie. Or the fact that Ben Kingsley played the MANDARIN in Iron Man 3! Der! Shouldn't the NAME ALONE tell those imbeciles that the character is supposed to be Chinese? Or at least ASIAN???
But this isn't JUST about race: another example would be the previous two F.F. movies; Both Johnny Storm and Susan Storm/Richards didn't look ANYTHING like they do in the comic books, and they don't look NEARLY enough alike to be brother and sister! They could at least have dyed their hair blonde!

It would have made more sense appearance-wise to have John Myung play the Mandarin, Leonardo DeCaprio or Matt Damon play Johnny Storm, and Jessica Simpson play Susan Storm!!!

I kind of understand what you mean on this, but as far as the actor playing Johnny in the new film - he is a good actor, so if the story makes sense, that will be fine.  I still don't see the reason for the change, but whatever, it's Fox.

But in the original FF films - Alba and Evans are blonde white people.  How else could they look like the comics?

[chaossystem]

I don't mind them changing the ethnicity of Johnny Storm, but I find it bizarre that they don't change it on Sue Storm as well. Just seems weird.

Right.
That's another good point.
They should have BOTH of them be played by actors of the same race.

[chaossystem]

I will admit that there's a lot that I don't know about the story line that is supposedly running through these movies, but I'm pretty sure that the Accuser character in the the "Guardians" movie is supposed to be a Kree.

Yes, Ronan was a Kree.

If I'm right, then I'm also guessing that the Avengers, Guardians, and who knows who else are going to be involved in the "Kree-Skrull war" at some point.

Not that I'm aware of.  I don't think that Marvel will be using the Skrulls.

[quote author=chaossystem link=topic=24999.msg1899267#msg1899267 date=14184177
If I'm right about that, then what I would like to see-even though they probably won't do it-is for the  new Fantastic Four movie to be a combining and re-telling of the first two issues of the original comic book series.
First tell their origin story right.
Then MAYBE have an encounter, or at least a brief mention of the Mole Man.
Then have that "first contact" with the Skrulls. Maybe even bring the Super Skrull into it.
Because after all, it was the F.F., in the second issue of their original series that FIRST encountered the Skrulls.

Most likely none of that is happening in the new FF movie.  Unlike Marvel Studios, Fox doesn't care that much about faithfulness to ideas from the actual comics. 

And speaking of that upcoming movie: I HATE the fact that this is going to make me sound like a racist, but I am getting sick of the way they they have to keep drastically  changing the physical appearance, or even the very ETHNICITY of so many of the key characters.
Such as the Kingpin in the Daredevil movie, and Johnny Storm in the upcoming F.F. movie. Or the fact that Ben Kingsley played the MANDARIN in Iron Man 3! Der! Shouldn't the NAME ALONE tell those imbeciles that the character is supposed to be Chinese? Or at least ASIAN???
But this isn't JUST about race: another example would be the previous two F.F. movies; Both Johnny Storm and Susan Storm/Richards didn't look ANYTHING like they do in the comic books, and they don't look NEARLY enough alike to be brother and sister! They could at least have dyed their hair blonde!

It would have made more sense appearance-wise to have John Myung play the Mandarin, Leonardo DeCaprio or Matt Damon play Johnny Storm, and Jessica Simpson play Susan Storm!!!

I kind of understand what you mean on this, but as far as the actor playing Johnny in the new film - he is a good actor, so if the story makes sense, that will be fine.  I still don't see the reason for the change, but whatever, it's Fox.

But in the original FF films - Alba and Evans are blonde white people.  How else could they look like the comics?
[/quote]

Well, I did say that there's a lot that I don't know.
You're right about how they change a lot of things, and I have HATED a lot of the changes that they made! It is VERY disrespectful.

However, Hef, you were wrong about a couple of things:
Jessica Alba's father is Mexican-American, which therefore makes HER "half-Mexican." Now I have lived in the SouthWest for most of my life, and if I have learned nothing else, I have at least learned that most-if not all-Mexicans do not like being called WHITE, or even "Caucasian!"
Also, I don't think Chris Evans is about 1/4 Italian, and Italians are not generally known for having blonde hair.
They did dye thier-especially her-hair a lighter color, but I don't remember J.A.'s hair being as light in the movies as it appears in the pictures, and C.E.'s hair wasn't QUITE blonde, and he had it cut so short that he almost looked like he had his head completely SHAVED! Again very different from the comic books.

[BlackInk]

Or the fact that Ben Kingsley played the MANDARIN in Iron Man 3! Der! Shouldn't the NAME ALONE tell those imbeciles that the character is supposed to be Chinese? Or at least ASIAN???

You should watch the 'All Hail the King' short. There is still hope.

[bosk1]

It's definitely a MacGuffin, but it is not, apparently, one of the Infinity Gems.

In retrospect, I think you are correct.  I won't give anything away, but there is a clue at the end of the episode that, IMO, weighs very heavily in favor of it NOT being one.

[MoraWintersoul]

And speaking of that upcoming movie: I HATE the fact that this is going to make me sound like a racist, but I am getting sick of the way they they have to keep drastically  changing the physical appearance, or even the very ETHNICITY of so many of the key characters.

It doesn't make you sound like a racist when you wish for characters' ethnicities to be translated properly to the screen, quite the opposite.

[chaossystem]

And speaking of that upcoming movie: I HATE the fact that this is going to make me sound like a racist, but I am getting sick of the way they they have to keep drastically  changing the physical appearance, or even the very ETHNICITY of so many of the key characters.

It doesn't make you sound like a racist when you wish for characters' ethnicities to be translated properly to the screen, quite the opposite.

Thank you for saying that.

What they're doing reminds me a little of what they used to do back when they first started making movies, and even before, in plays.

A lot of non-white actors wren't allowed to play lead roles in movies and plays, even if the main character happened to be black or Latin or Asian, etc.
They were usually played by a white actor (Charlie Chan movies) and would often appear in "blackface" (which is REALLY racist, in my opinion!)
And sometimes it wouldn't even have to be the MAIN character!

But what I think is happening now is JUST as bad, wrong and racist for the OPPOSITE reason: They-especially Hollywood-are so worried about being POLITICALLY CORRECT that they are replacing as many white characters and actors with people who aren't as they can get away with! Did they REALLY think nobody would notice...?...

Hmmm...I MAY have just stumbled on to yet ANOTHER form of racism....

[MoraWintersoul]

But what I think is happening now is JUST as bad, wrong and racist for the OPPOSITE reason: They-especially Hollywood-are so worried about being POLITICALLY CORRECT that they are replacing as many white characters and actors with people who aren't as they can get away with!

I don't think what you just mentioned happens a lot outside of reboots (at least not as a lot as characters who aren't white being whitewashed), but the thing is, when they change some inconsequential characters' races just to be able to say they care about representation and then go around whitewashing other characters, it sends the wrong message. Why not just stick to the comics when it comes to the movies, maybe reboot some comics in a different race or gender, maybe debut some other characters of various ethnicities etc. When people ask for representation and you comply, it matters which character you're changing and why.

[hefdaddy42]

However, Hef, you were wrong about a couple of things:
Jessica Alba's father is Mexican-American, which therefore makes HER "half-Mexican." Now I have lived in the SouthWest for most of my life, and if I have learned nothing else, I have at least learned that most-if not all-Mexicans do not like being called WHITE, or even "Caucasian!"
Also, I don't think Chris Evans is about 1/4 Italian, and Italians are not generally known for having blonde hair.
They did dye thier-especially her-hair a lighter color, but I don't remember J.A.'s hair being as light in the movies as it appears in the pictures, and C.E.'s hair wasn't QUITE blonde, and he had it cut so short that he almost looked like he had his head completely SHAVED! Again very different from the comic books.

Godammit, they have white skin and blond hair, I don't care where their families came from, that is irrelevant.  And who cares about his haircut?

[SuperTaco]

But what I think is happening now is JUST as bad, wrong and racist for the OPPOSITE reason: They-especially Hollywood-are so worried about being POLITICALLY CORRECT that they are replacing as many white characters and actors with people who aren't as they can get away with! Did they REALLY think nobody would notice...?...

Hmmm...I MAY have just stumbled on to yet ANOTHER form of racism....

This is the first time I've ever agreed with you, I think.

I have seen this happen a lot in recent years too... It feels like overcompensating. They want so badly not to be viewed as racist that they end up going to the extreme other end of the spectrum, where ethnic diversity is an absolute requirement. I'm 100% for ethnic diversity, but it doesn't need to be forced. The world is already learning that racism is wrong. We don't need Hollywood directors/producers saying "Ok make sure there's a minority in every scene so we don't get called racist." That, to me, is the incorrect way of dealing with it. Racism only has power when people pay attention to it. All the attention it gets from the media and the general public is why it still exists.

[chaossystem]

But what I think is happening now is JUST as bad, wrong and racist for the OPPOSITE reason: They-especially Hollywood-are so worried about being POLITICALLY CORRECT that they are replacing as many white characters and actors with people who aren't as they can get away with! Did they REALLY think nobody would notice...?...

Hmmm...I MAY have just stumbled on to yet ANOTHER form of racism....

This is the first time I've ever agreed with you, I think.

I have seen this happen a lot in recent years too... It feels like overcompensating. They want so badly not to be viewed as racist that they end up going to the extreme other end of the spectrum, where ethnic diversity is an absolute requirement. I'm 100% for ethnic diversity, but it doesn't need to be forced. The world is already learning that racism is wrong. We don't need Hollywood directors/producers saying "Ok make sure there's a minority in every scene so we don't get called racist." That, to me, is the incorrect way of dealing with it. Racism only has power when people pay attention to it. All the attention it gets from the media and the general public is why it still exists.

I know this is going to make me sound like a conspiracy nut, but I can't help thinking that another reason for it is like a form of conditioning. Almost like we're being programmed to think a certain way, and just accept it when they make those kinds of changes.
A big part of the reason I'm saying this is because it IS being forced. A couple more examples of that would be Nick Fury being played by Samuel Jackson, and Ben Grimm's girlfriend Alicia being played by Kerry Washington. I have nothing bad to say about either of them, at least as actors, I love their work, but let's face it: BOTH of these characters used to be WHITE!
What you said in response to what I said made me think that another way to put it about them thinking that no one would notice, it's like they don't have ANY respect for ANY part of their audience!
Or to put another way: It's like they think we're a bunch of mindless idiots just sitting there waiting to be programmed. Like we can't function unless they're there to tell us what to think.
As for racism only having the power that we give it: It's like they want people to focus on it more so it WON'T go away. When they keep doing things like what they're doing with these movies, I think there's at least a POSSIBILITY of making the problem worse, not better, and I can't help feeling that it's intentional.

[Metro]

MCU Nick Fury is based off of the Ultimate Universe Nick Fury
Who is based off of Samuel L. Jackson's appearance.


And new Fantastic Four Johnny Storm is probably adopted in the reboot. Simple as that. Or maybe the other way around and Sue Storm is adopted.

I don't see why this is a big deal at all.

[chaossystem]

It wouldn't be a big deal to me, either, if it hadn't happened so many times.

[ariich]

I don't see why it matters at all, unless a character's race/ethnicity is somehow fundamental to their character. To my knowledge there was no particular reason that Nick Fury was white in the comics, so it makes no difference if he is black in the film.

Whereas, for example, if a character was black and a big part of their story was a struggle against racism, then making them white would be absurd.

Basically, unless there's a reason a character NEEDS to be a certain race, who the hell cares?

[chaossystem]

I've already answered that question.

But what if they decided to do a Blade reboot, and "redesigned" the character (which was the ONLY explanation that I have so far been able to find for Nick Fury!) as a WHITE man?

After all, there is NOTHING that says that the Blade character HAS to be BLACK!

But I can't help feeling that certain people would lose their MINDS if THAT happened...

[Zantera]

It's not like it's a big deal, but sometimes it feels like they go out of their way to change ethnicities for no reason. Sure, some of those characters doesn't HAVE to be a certain ethnicity, but they were written as such originally, and that's the image we have of them. Take Johnny Storm for example, he has always been white and so seeing them change the ethnicity of him for the film, but not changing Sue Storm is completely baffling on so many levels. Don't get me wrong, Michael B Jordan is an excellent actor, and I have no doubt he will play a good Johnny Storm. But changing the ethnicity of him but keeping Sue Storm white, and going down the "one of them was adopted" (or maybe different parents) route just feels so weird, and instead of going the easy way and staying true to the original source, they are going out of their way to make it more complicated, only to get a more mixed super hero team, race-wise. And for what? It's like they go out of their way to stir things up by changing what we know and love, and having the response "if you don't like it, you're a racist".

I generally don't care too much about it, but with Fantastic Four it just seems overly complicated than what it should be. Either make them both white like the original characters, or make them both black. They are brother/sister after all, so the modern "twist" just screams of marketing desperation. For many situations I just don't see the point. I agree that race of many characters doesn't matter, but WHY go out of your way to change it? 

[Metro]

(which was the ONLY explanation that I have so far been able to find for Nick Fury!)

MCU Nick Fury is based off of the Ultimate Universe Nick Fury
Who is based off of Samuel L. Jackson's appearance.

I guess you just skimmed past that part? It's not a "redesign". It's a different version of the same character, but still the same character. And they cast the character perfectly.

But what if they decided to do a Blade reboot, and "redesigned" the character as a WHITE man?

If they rebooted Blade with a white lead actor, then there is no problem. I wouldn't see the movie anyway because I'm not a big fan of the Blade series, but if the actor does a good job as the character, and the overall story of the character stays intact, then his skin color shouldn't matter.

After all, there is NOTHING that says that the Blade character HAS to be BLACK!

Exactly.

[chaossystem]

I like the Blade series the way it IS!

I am fan of both Wesley Snipes and those movies.

I was just making a point.

[Metro]

If you like it the way it is, then don't go see the Hypothetical Blade movie starring the white man.

[chaossystem]

It's not like it's a big deal, but sometimes it feels like they go out of their way to change ethnicities for no reason. Sure, some of those characters doesn't HAVE to be a certain ethnicity, but they were written as such originally, and that's the image we have of them. Take Johnny Storm for example, he has always been white and so seeing them change the ethnicity of him for the film, but not changing Sue Storm is completely baffling on so many levels. Don't get me wrong, Michael B Jordan is an excellent actor, and I have no doubt he will play a good Johnny Storm. But changing the ethnicity of him but keeping Sue Storm white, and going down the "one of them was adopted" (or maybe different parents) route just feels so weird, and instead of going the easy way and staying true to the original source, they are going out of their way to make it more complicated, only to get a more mixed super hero team, race-wise. And for what? It's like they go out of their way to stir things up by changing what we know and love, and having the response "if you don't like it, you're a racist".

I generally don't care too much about it, but with Fantastic Four it just seems overly complicated than what it should be. Either make them both white like the original characters, or make them both black. They are brother/sister after all, so the modern "twist" just screams of marketing desperation. For many situations I just don't see the point. I agree that race of many characters doesn't matter, but WHY go out of your way to change it?

You make some good points, Zantera.

I was reluctant to say this before, but now I think is a good time for it:

This will almost certainly never happen because it's telling the writers in Hollywood to do something that actually makes sense!

But why don't they try putting out a movie featuring a group of "super-heroes" that is either "all black" or 'anything but white" and let the MARKET decide if it is going to be a successful franchise???
Not to mention that if the movie was put out by Marvel Studios, then these characters would or could be a part of the "Marvel Universe."

[Cyclopssss]

Just wait ´till BLACK PANTER turns out to be a WHITE DUDE.

[BlackInk]

Ethnicity discussions: The pinnacle of movie discussion buzz kills.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't see why it matters at all, unless a character's race/ethnicity is somehow fundamental to their character. To my knowledge there was no particular reason that Nick Fury was white in the comics, so it makes no difference if he is black in the film.

Whereas, for example, if a character was black and a big part of their story was a struggle against racism, then making them white would be absurd.

Basically, unless there's a reason a character NEEDS to be a certain race, who the hell cares?

Not sure I understand this viewpoint.

When adapting a story from one media to another (in this case, comics to film), some changes inevitably have to be made, due to storytelling methods/constrictions and everything not translating well from one to another.

So why make a change that you don't have to?  Especially if it is one that will be visually different for the built-in audience from a visual medium (comics)?  I can't think of a really good reason to make such a change.