Marvel's Movie/TV Universe *SPOILERS*

[jingle.boy]

Beautiful!!!  Of course I recognize the Pulp Fiction tie in... but I obviously didn't pay close enough attention to that part it popped up in Cap.

[BlackInk]

I didn't see it either. Cool stuff.

[bout to crash]

Yeah, it took a second to register and then I was like OHHHH SHIT 

[erwinrafael]

When I read the comic books, I can not imagine how Captain America can take down platoons of soldiers, tanks and aircraft. I believed that that would look ridiculous.

Marvel proved me wrong. That initial scene where Cap stormed the ship, that looked highly believable. Even more believable than Batman taking down criminal gangs. And when Cap downed the SHIELD aircraft. And the elevator scene. WOW. A whole different level of action filmmaking in those scenes.

The trio's fight with SHIELD and the Winter Soldier is so un-superhero movie-ish, it looked amazing.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, the hand-to-hand stuff was really gritty and visceral.  And bloody, too.

[erwinrafael]

Even the gun fights were so un-superheroic.

[zepp-head]

Incredible movie.  This definitely changes everything on the SHIELD show.

Spoilers:











After how douchy FOX was about using Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch first, it's great that Marvel STILL got them on screen first, and I'm sure they will do a much better job with them than Days of Future Past.  Loki's scepter! Also, a Dr. Strange reference.

[Ħ]

Awesome movie, probably in the top 3 of the MCU for me. The only complaint I have about it is that it suffers from the same thing as most of these Marvel movies do: The first half is jaw-dropping and suspenseful, but the second half is action-packed to a fault.

[Jamesman42]

Saw Winter Soldier last Friday. I don't dislike all the superhero movies, they're definitely fun to watch once, but I don't cream over them like everyone seems to.

But this movie was the best by far. Fucking awesome.

[Kotowboy]

I was on BoxOfficeMojo looking at the Worldwide Grosses for all the MCU films so far...

Didn't realise Ed Norton's Hulk made so little money. $250m +/- on a $150m +/- budget.



It didn't do that much better than Ang Lee's hulk. I guess people don't enjoy that character on his own.

[hefdaddy42]

I think that a new Hulk film would do better.  Assuming there is a good script (which hasn't been a problem with the Marvel films, with the possible exception of Iron Man 2).  He just seems like a tough character to write for.

[Zantera]

I think a main problem with a Hulk movie is that you need someone to balance him out, like a Black Widow in TWS, but in a Hulk movie. Another problem is the powers itself. Once Bruce Banner becomes The Hulk, he doesn't really have much control of what he is doing, at least he hasn't in the previous movies. Avengers could have changed that, because Mark Ruffalo is shown to be able to control his powers slightly better, and The Hulk works in the team, and doesn't just run around smashing things.

The Hulk is otherwise a very primal kind of hero. He breaks things. I would love to see a Mark Ruffalo Hulk movie though, but I can understand why they haven't made one yet. I would imagine writing a really good Hulk movie is hard. Unlike the other heroes they have, it's kinda hard to understand his motivations or actions once he becomes The Hulk, since it's mostly breaking things.

[Kotowboy]

I was going to write something similar. Once he's Bruce Banner - you could explore his backstory / character a bit and give him an arc -

- yet once he becomes Hulk - he really has no depth.

They could do something whereby he manages to retain his Bruce Banner self-awareness as Hulk and what that could mean -

- or something like the first Fantastic Four - where he loses his power to become Hulk but ultimately decides to keep it in the end.

[theseoafs]

Do you guys suppose it would still be enjoyable to watch Winter Soldier if you never saw the first Cap movie?  I've seen the rest of the Marvel movies, except for that one.

[jingle.boy]

Enjoyable?  Yes.  But there are certainly some references that make a shit-ton more sense if you've seen the first.  You might be scratching your head during a few scenes thinking  'what the fuck was that all about?'

[King Postwhore]

Do you guys suppose it would still be enjoyable to watch Winter Soldier if you never saw the first Cap movie?  I've seen the rest of the Marvel movies, except for that one.

It's been playing all over the FX channel.  Unless you are at college and stream it.

[Lucien]

Yes, watch the first before seeing the second. There is a shit-ton of stuff you won't understand.

On another note, HOLY SHIT The Winter Soldier was an AMAZING movie.

Then you have to ask "Where does it go from here?"

[zepp-head]

The Hulk has proven on a number of occasions now that he can't really carry a film by himself.  Even though he's one of the most popular comic book characters, he still can't muster an audience.  Personally I think The Incredible Hulk is the weakest of the MCU films so far, but that is probably just because it isn't as fun as Iron Man 2, even if it's put together better.  As someone mentioned before, the character isn't that deep once you get past the whole "beast within" stuff, and he has a severe lack of good villains as well.

I have to imagine that these are at least some of the reasons we haven't had another solo Hulk film yet, despite the warm reception Ruffalo got as Banner in the Avengers.  I'm sure they will use him again at some point, but every other MCU film has kicked The Incredible Hulk's ass at this point.

[King Postwhore]

Yeah that Hulk just can't act.

[Kotowboy]

Hopefully going to see Winter Soldier on Wednesday.

[Accelerando]

I have to imagine that these are at least some of the reasons we haven't had another solo Hulk film yet

I've a feeling we're going to get a Planet Hulk movie. Either Avengers 2 is setting it up or a film in Phase 3 will. That concept art of Iron Man Hulkbuster fighting the Hulk that came with the Quicksilver and Scarlett Witch artwork might have something to do with it. Don't ask me why, it's just a gut feeling.

Also, if that happens, we can finally get Beta Ray fuckin Bill in a movie.

[King Postwhore]

I'd love to see them continue to the Secret Wars.

[zepp-head]

I have to imagine that these are at least some of the reasons we haven't had another solo Hulk film yet

I've a feeling we're going to get a Planet Hulk movie. Either Avengers 2 is setting it up or a film in Phase 3 will. That concept art of Iron Man Hulkbuster fighting the Hulk that came with the Quicksilver and Scarlett Witch artwork might have something to do with it. Don't ask me why, it's just a gut feeling.

Also, if that happens, we can finally get Beta Ray fuckin Bill in a movie.

Oh I wouldn't be surprised at all especially since they are talking about doing 3 to 4 movies per year in the future.  And while the Hulk hasn't fared well financially against Cap, Iron Man, and Thor, I'm sure he would do fine compared to Dr. Strange.

[bosk1]

I never liked the Hulk as a character.  Never was able to get into him at all.  So with VERY low expectations, I saw the Ed Norton Hulk film and thought it was fantastic.  I also thought the character worked really well in The Avengers.  That being said, I don't really have any strong desire to see another stand-alone Hulk movie.  I think the character almost works better if we keep him as the mysterious recluse who only surfaces when the threat is so dire that the entire team needs him. 

And The Winter Soldier was very good.  The Falcon felt like a completely gratuitous addition, but the eye-candy of seeing him flying around dodging missiles made it worth it, I guess.  Thor II and Cap II are definitely strong additions to phase 2. 

[bosk1]

Oh, just ran across some VERY interesting real-world facts about the Marvel film universe that has some MAJOR spoilage:

***************spoilers below********************




















Chris Evans' contract is for 6 films in total. He has done three so far (Cap 1&2 and Avengers).  Sebastian Stan has a 9-film contract with Marvel.  He has only done two films so far.  I was not much of a Cap fan back in the day, but I have done enough reading about The Winder Soldier character that I think it is fairly obvious where this is going.

[Dimitrius]

Yep!

[Lucien]

So...*spoilers*
























They're going to kill off Captain America, and Winter Soldier will replace him? 

[Lucien]

Okay. I've done quite a bit of research on this subject. ENORMOUS SPOILERS BELOW:
































I've confirmed the death of Captain America, and all the pieces fit. We know now that Captain America will leave us very soon, in three more movies he appears in. This is because he is killed by none other than Brock Rumlow, who we saw going in the hospital VERY messed up at the end of Captain America: The Winter Soldier. He then becomes Crossbones, who kills Captain America IN THE COMICS.

Then The Winter Soldier becomes Captain America, unless he just remains The Winter Soldier among them.

It all fits together. Seriously. Goodbye Captain America.

[bosk1]

**********************mas espoilers******************

We know now that Captain America will leave us very soon, in three more movies he appears in. This is because he is killed by none other than Brock Rumlow, who we saw going in the hospital VERY messed up at the end of Captain America: The Winter Soldier. He then becomes Crossbones, who kills Captain America IN THE COMICS.

Then The Winter Soldier becomes Captain America, unless he just remains The Winter Soldier among them.

It all fits together. Seriously. Goodbye Captain America.

Well, given the timeline we have, three movies actually isn't very "soon."  We are probably looking at Avengers 2, Cap 3, and Avengers 3, unless he plays a major role in something else before then (which I suppose is entirely possible; they could do a major crossover that is not titled "Avengers"). 

And I could be wrong, but I doubt it will be Rumlow that kills him.  It would be too obvious for them to follow the comic that closely.  I think it is an intentional red herring.  Perhaps Thanos offs him in Avengers 3.  After all, Thanos is powerful enough that it is likely that someone will die fighting him.  But who knows?  Marvel studios may not even have it figured out yet.

[Lucien]

It is rather obvious. Simply pointing it out, I am as intrigued as everyone else as to where this will go.

Anyways..

Guardians of the Galaxy looks like it will be FUN.

[jingle.boy]

Chris Evans' contract is for 6 films in total. He has done three so far (Cap 1&2 and Avengers).  Sebastian Stan has a 9-film contract with Marvel.  He has only done two films so far.  I was not much of a Cap fan back in the day, but I have done enough reading about The Winder Soldier character that I think it is fairly obvious where this is going.

You're forgetting Evans' cameo in Thor 2.  So, he only has two more movies to go.  Also, I thought Agent 13 killed Cap in the comics - "Crossbones snipes at him while Sharon Carter, who has been brainwashed by Doctor Faustus posing as a S.H.I.E.L.D. psychiatrist, delivers the killing blow."

We get a lot of things potentially setup at the end of Cap 2.  So many directions that Marvel can branch out from now. 

[bosk1]

I was told that the cameo does not count toward fullfilling his contract because it is not a major role.  But, yeah, good catch otherwise.  (and given that his shield appeared in Hulk and Iron Man 2, that makes 6 already, so maybe he is already actually dead! )

[Zantera]

I really doubt they will kill off the real Cap and have The Winter Soldier take his place. It does happen in the comics, but that doesn't mean it will happen in the movies. Marvel signs everyone to at least 8-9 picture deals now, because they don't want to go through what happened with RDJ ever again. Just because it's a nine picture deal doesn't mean they have nine movies planned, it just means that if they want to use his character again, he will be obligated to come.

Even though it's a nod to the comic book fans, you have to remember that most of the audience who see the movies aren't into the comics. So for the same reason you won't see Ben Reilly or Miles Morales as Spider-Man, Dick Grayson or Terry McGinnes as Batman, I don't think you will see Bucky as Cap America. Steve Rogers is Captain America, and killing him off would just be stupid. Besides, I would imagine after the third Cap America movie, Marvel will "shelve" the character for a while. They have other heroes and characters they haven't explored yet, and we know a Dr. Strange movie and a Black Panther movie is being planned so. I would also imagine a sequel to Guardians of the Galaxy will happen, and a sequel to Ant-Man might not be impossible either, depending on how they do ofc.

[hefdaddy42]

I agree for the most part, except that if they don't have future plans for the Winter Soldier, there would be no reason for an extended contract, and Chris Evans is planning on retiring from acting.  Also, with the kind of business this film is making, and the high hopes they have for the third film (it is opening against Batman/Superman in 2016), I doubt that they are "shelving" this character.  Too much money on the table.  Plus, the story of the Winter Soldier is already going to span two films.  They won't give up on him that easy.

Steve Rogers may not die in the films, but I would bet anything that TWS will eventually take on the role of Cap.

[Zantera]

Well, they could use The Winter Soldier in many ways without making him Captain America though. Regarding the movie going up against Batman vs Superman, I don't think people should expect that to happen. I'm pretty confident that Warner Brothers will move their date, because it would be incredibly stupid for them not to. They need Batman vs Superman to be a huge hit, and opening on the same day as CA3 will only harm it. Batman vs Superman would still be a bigger box office hit, but WB/DC doesn't have the same room that Marvel has. CA3 could be a huge flop, and it wouldn't affect Marvel that much. They are in the position where a bomb isn't the end of the world. (CA3 probably won't be a bomb though)

Still, I don't think The Winter Soldier will be Captain America because of the reasons I stated earlier. Steve Rogers IS Captain America. Throwing the costume on someone else and slapping the same name on it, I just don't see that as very appealing to general audiences. I could see The Winter Soldier becoming more of an ally of Captain America, and become a hero on his own, but him in the costume.. I just don't see it. If people go and see a Captain America movie, they want to see Steve Rogers. (There's probably a small group of comic book fans who disagree, but generally speaking ofc)