Author Topic: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)  (Read 154838 times)

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Online Chino

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1085 on: March 25, 2014, 01:44:58 PM »
Gus was way worse than Walter. Gus was all about the criminal enterprise and the production of Meth. He was just really smart and knew that the business act (legit skills though) was what was required to not get caught.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1086 on: March 25, 2014, 01:51:01 PM »
The only argument I could see is that Walt did a dastardly act - poisoning Brock - against an innocent person, while all of Gus' monstrous acts were committed against people who were bad people, too (the kid who shot Combo, Victor, Hector, etc.).  But even still, everything Walt did, he did out of self-preservation (for himself or Jesse, his partner), while Gus taunting Hector served no other purpose other than to add to the misery of an old man in a wheelchair.  And Walt did seem genuinely remorseful about poisoning Brock (see: his reaction when Jesse tells him on the roof that Brock was touch and go for a while, but is gonna make it); Gus was never remorseful about anything he did. 

Offline El Barto

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1087 on: March 25, 2014, 03:04:26 PM »
Taunting Hector is a valid point. Can't really defend that. Having the kid and Victor whacked were just business matters and don't trouble me. The problem with Hector is that the taunting was something that Gus seemed to enjoy. While Walt certainly made business decisions, he really enjoyed his new persona, and it could be argued that much of his naughty business could be attributed to his interest in being Heisenberg. I suppose it's the difference between being a cold an calculating bad guy and being an emotional asshole of a bad guy.

A secondary aspect to which one was the bigger monster is their respective families. We can only speculate about Gus, but based on how regarded people close to him I suspect that he never would have put his family (if he had one) through what Walt routinely subjected his to.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1088 on: March 25, 2014, 06:38:41 PM »
Does anyone else subscribe to the theory that Gus's buddy that got killed was actually his lover? And so therefore there's extra incentive to torture Hector.

When I first heard this perspective I was quick to dismiss it, but after thinking about it more, just maybe...

I'm curious to see what others think.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1089 on: March 25, 2014, 06:44:51 PM »
Does anyone else subscribe to the theory that Gus's buddy that got killed was actually his lover? And so therefore there's extra incentive to torture Hector.

Esposito treated Gus as if there were fact, and VG said that while he would never confirm or deny it that they probably were. So yeah, I subscribe to it.
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Offline MetalJunkie

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1090 on: March 25, 2014, 10:43:42 PM »
Does anyone else subscribe to the theory that Gus's buddy that got killed was actually his lover? And so therefore there's extra incentive to torture Hector.

When I first heard this perspective I was quick to dismiss it, but after thinking about it more, just maybe...

I'm curious to see what others think.
I think it could be, but I'm glad we don't know for sure.  Just like we don't know with any random stranger we might meet on a daily basis. If VG labelled Gus as homosexual, I think I would feel like it was shoehorned in for the purpose of saying "Look! Diversity!" That's certainly how I felt about Dumbledore's posthumous outing.

All that matters is that Gus and Max were close enough that Max's death resonated so much that Gus would exact his revenge two decades later.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1091 on: March 26, 2014, 11:54:27 AM »


A secondary aspect to which one was the bigger monster is their respective families. We can only speculate about Gus, but based on how regarded people close to him I suspect that he never would have put his family (if he had one) through what Walt routinely subjected his to.

That may or may not be true, but it is important to remember that Walt always did everything he could to protect his family.  Plus, we never saw Gus' family, or whatever family he might have had, so we don't know what happened there.  It appeared as if he simply stayed single and had no kids, so as not to subject them to the life he had chosen for himself, but remember that Walt already had a wife, son and baby on the way when he got his death sentence/cancer.  Not justifying it, but merely saying there is a difference. 

Offline Grizz

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1092 on: March 26, 2014, 12:31:27 PM »
I'm fairly certain that Gus has a daughter.
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Offline TioJorge

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1093 on: March 26, 2014, 01:02:25 PM »
He's said he has 'children', who have never been shown in the show; nor any other family member. So basically it's as good as hearing it from the horse's mouth, except this horse is a lying, manipulative, meticulous motherfucker.

I don't think he does. I think that his business is his family and his children are all the billions upon billions of little crystals.

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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1094 on: March 26, 2014, 02:55:26 PM »
Was his character not to your satisfaction?

Well, I thought I made that pretty clear in my post.  The character had major flaws and I'm glad they killed him off.  He let things get out of control and then killed and threatened others to make up for it.  He thought he was untouchable and he thought wrong.  It's always a pleasure to see karma come back around and kick some ass.  In this case, it happened to be Walt, who is the central character of the series.  The show began to revolve too much around Gus.  I'm glad they got back on the right track.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1095 on: March 26, 2014, 04:40:56 PM »
Huh. Completely different take on Gus than mine. I never saw him as arrogant or seemingly untouchable. He was level headed and calculating but knew when to be nervous. As for his faults and letting things get out of control, they're both rolled into one big ball named Walter White. His mistake was taking on Walt when he knew it was a bad move. He feared Jessie's involvement and his instincts were eventually completely correct (it was because of Jessie that WW whacked the two gangbangers ending his relationship with Gus). Only then did things get completely out of control. Up until then he'd been running a pretty tight ship. He should have let Gale handle the cooking and been content, which probably would have been better for Walt, as well.

I'm not going to say that Gus was a good guy, but still, I admire somebody who's very good at what they choose to do. I think in Gus's case the problem was that he was so cold and logical in his dealings that he looked monstrous, even though there were certainly far worse people in the series.
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Offline MetalJunkie

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1096 on: March 26, 2014, 05:15:24 PM »
Was his character not to your satisfaction?

Well, I thought I made that pretty clear in my post.  The character had major flaws and I'm glad they killed him off.  He let things get out of control and then killed and threatened others to make up for it.  He thought he was untouchable and he thought wrong.  It's always a pleasure to see karma come back around and kick some ass.  In this case, it happened to be Walt, who is the central character of the series.  The show began to revolve too much around Gus.  I'm glad they got back on the right track.
Whoosh.
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Offline Grizz

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1097 on: March 26, 2014, 06:06:14 PM »
He's said he has 'children', who have never been shown in the show; nor any other family member. So basically it's as good as hearing it from the horse's mouth, except this horse is a lying, manipulative, meticulous motherfucker.

I don't think he does. I think that his business is his family and his children are all the billions upon billions of little crystals.
I swear I saw a toy in his house
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1098 on: March 26, 2014, 10:40:28 PM »
Was his character not to your satisfaction?

Well, I thought I made that pretty clear in my post.  The character had major flaws and I'm glad they killed him off.  He let things get out of control and then killed and threatened others to make up for it.  He thought he was untouchable and he thought wrong.  It's always a pleasure to see karma come back around and kick some ass.  In this case, it happened to be Walt, who is the central character of the series.  The show began to revolve too much around Gus.  I'm glad they got back on the right track.
Whoosh.

My sentiment exactly. :lol :lol

Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1099 on: March 27, 2014, 10:28:52 AM »
Huh. Completely different take on Gus than mine. I never saw him as arrogant or seemingly untouchable. He was level headed and calculating but knew when to be nervous. As for his faults and letting things get out of control, they're both rolled into one big ball named Walter White. His mistake was taking on Walt when he knew it was a bad move. He feared Jessie's involvement and his instincts were eventually completely correct (it was because of Jessie that WW whacked the two gangbangers ending his relationship with Gus). Only then did things get completely out of control. Up until then he'd been running a pretty tight ship. He should have let Gale handle the cooking and been content, which probably would have been better for Walt, as well.

I'm not going to say that Gus was a good guy, but still, I admire somebody who's very good at what they choose to do. I think in Gus's case the problem was that he was so cold and logical in his dealings that he looked monstrous, even though there were certainly far worse people in the series.

He made bad choices despite his instincts and somehow that's admirable?  He ran a pretty tight ship up until the point when he got killed and his lab destroyed.  I'm looking at the result of his choices.  It's pretty straight forward, but keep in mind that I haven't seen anything beyond the episode when he died.  Maybe something happens later on I don't know about yet.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1100 on: March 27, 2014, 10:35:10 AM »
Other than hiring on Walter's unpredictable ass I'm not coming up with any bad decisions. In fact, even after taking WW on board and having a shit-ton of chaos thrown into the mix he still made one sound decision after another. Walt eventually outplayed him, but I don't think that was really the result of mistakes or bad decisions. If you want to get all drama traditionalist on the thing, I suppose you could say that his ongoing issue with Hector was a fatal flaw that opened the door for Walt to gain an advantage, but honestly I think that would be a stretch. Particularly since it still comes down to the fact that it was taking on Walter in the first place that screwed everything up.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1101 on: March 27, 2014, 12:53:14 PM »
Walt taking out Gus was literally the perfect storm. 

Hell, if Mike doesn't get shot and hadn't been recovering in Mexico, does Walt's plan to take out Gus work?  Probably not.   

Or if Jesse doesn't remember Gus going to see Hector.

Or if Hector doesn't agree to take out Gus.

Or if Tyrus finds the bomb on Gus' wheelchair.

etc.

Any number of things could have happened to have prevented Walt's plan from working.  It was the perfect storm.

Online Chino

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1102 on: March 27, 2014, 02:35:16 PM »
Walt taking out Gus was literally the perfect storm. 

Hell, if Mike doesn't get shot and hadn't been recovering in Mexico, does Walt's plan to take out Gus work?  Probably not.   

Or if Jesse doesn't remember Gus going to see Hector.

Or if Hector doesn't agree to take out Gus.

Or if Tyrus finds the bomb on Gus' wheelchair.

etc.

Any number of things could have happened to have prevented Walt's plan from working.  It was the perfect storm.

What if Walter just stuck to cooking in the desert and selling small batches with Jessie as the runner? That probably would have gone off without a hitch.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1103 on: March 27, 2014, 02:39:35 PM »
Right, except more of their street dealers would have gotten killed* or busted by the cops, and Walt never would have made enough money to take care of his family.

*likely by associates of Gus, who would have viewed the blue as a threat to their business. 

Offline El Barto

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1104 on: March 27, 2014, 03:12:49 PM »
Gus never would have killed somebody who could make a superior product to his own. Gail is the one who would have been in jeopardy.

Besides which, Gus already knew about Heizenburg produced meth. That was the sample he gave to Gail. Presumably he had already intended to compete alongside him. Particularly since Gus was nationwide and WW/J were strictly small time ABQ guys. Not really much conflict of interest.

As for the whole perfect storm thing, yeah sure. Happens all the time. Sometimes Gus was on the good side, and finally he was on the bad one. Same thing with Walt. What if Tuco just capped WW when he walked into the safe house? What if he'd smashed up that chunk of Hg(CNO)2 to snort up? What if he'd called WW's bluff? What if he just waited, followed him home and killed his whole family? This is television. Complicated schemes always tend to work out well for somebody.
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1105 on: March 27, 2014, 03:52:08 PM »
Ok, so how is anything in the series a stretch?  Like you said, it's TV.  Any of those scenarios could've played out depending on the writer's direction.  It still doesn't change the fact that I'm glad Gus screwed up and that's the reason he's gone.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1106 on: March 27, 2014, 03:58:54 PM »
Ok, so how is anything in the series a stretch?  Like you said, it's TV.  Any of those scenarios could've played out depending on the writer's direction.  It still doesn't change the fact that I'm glad Gus screwed up and that's the reason he's gone.
Well, if I understand your question there's an answer to that. Yes, the perfect storm events are up to the writer's discretion, so how various scenarios turn out shouldn't be considered a stretch. However, what I referred to as a stretch was an analysis of Gus Fring's character based on what was presented to us. I think it's fair to say that the portrait of Gus presented to us was reasonable or monstrous, and suggesting that some opinions on the matter are a reach is quite reasonable. It's the difference between discussing what we were shown and how we interpret aspects of that.

And for the record I have no problem with you being glad Gus is dead. I certainly understand how he was unsettling to people. I'm not faulting you or your opinion. I'm discussing one of the more interesting characters on the show and the true nature of his character is intriguing to me. Whether he or WW were the bigger monsters is a very fascinating subject, in fact.
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1107 on: March 27, 2014, 04:21:22 PM »
Agreed and there are varied opinions nonetheless.  Fair enough and I appreciate your willingness to discuss instead of just dismissing it with a *whoosh*.   :lol
I still have about 15 episodes to go, so who's the bigger monster still remains to be seen at least from my perspective.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1108 on: March 27, 2014, 04:45:57 PM »
Agreed and there are varied opinions nonetheless.  Fair enough and I appreciate your willingness to discuss instead of just dismissing it with a *whoosh*.   :lol
I still have about 15 episodes to go, so who's the bigger monster still remains to be seen at least from my perspective.
Well, I think people tend to view the whole Gus part of the story as the highlight (and I agree with that). I think you're the first person who came out and said it was good that they're finally done with Gus.  :lol  But like you said, I was actually more interested in finding out why someone would think that, given my fondness for him as a character, hence the discussion.

And before anybody brings it up and possibly spoils it, the, I guess we'd call him the antagonist, in the second half of season five is actually every bit as interesting. I enjoyed watching that every bit as much as Gus doing his thing. I'd call that entire 8 episode stretch the other highlight of the series.
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Offline MetalJunkie

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1109 on: March 27, 2014, 04:57:14 PM »
I wonder if Gus would have decided to kill Walt, had Walt not been so paranoid about Gus killing him.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1110 on: March 27, 2014, 11:50:48 PM »
Agreed and there are varied opinions nonetheless.  Fair enough and I appreciate your willingness to discuss instead of just dismissing it with a *whoosh*.   :lol
 

Well, you saying they got back on the right track by getting rid of Gus implies that focusing on him so much was the wrong, when, in reality, he was, more or less, a plot device to tell the Walter White story, so in that respect, I can see why someone thought that fact kind of went over your head.  I mean, take Gus out of the entire storyline and then it's just, what, Hank and Jesse cooking in the RV in the desert forever?  Yep, that would have been real exciting. :lol :lol  Plus, like Barto said, he was basically the main antagonist of the series, and while Walt was the antihero, he was still the protagonist, and thus the show still needed a main antagonist.

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1111 on: March 28, 2014, 05:23:30 AM »
I mean, take Gus out of the entire storyline and then it's just, what, Hank and Jesse cooking in the RV in the desert forever?

Damn, removing Gus really fucks up the space-time continuum.

Offline MetalJunkie

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1112 on: March 28, 2014, 06:28:28 AM »
Agreed and there are varied opinions nonetheless.  Fair enough and I appreciate your willingness to discuss instead of just dismissing it with a *whoosh*.   :lol
I still have about 15 episodes to go, so who's the bigger monster still remains to be seen at least from my perspective.
Erm... "Whoosh" is a sound effect describing something flying over someone's head. In this case, it was Chino's comment "Was his character not to your satisfaction?" He was referencing Gus's common question in Los Pollos Hermanos: "Is everything to your satisfaction?"
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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1113 on: March 28, 2014, 06:50:34 AM »
Agreed and there are varied opinions nonetheless.  Fair enough and I appreciate your willingness to discuss instead of just dismissing it with a *whoosh*.   :lol
 

and then it's just, what, Hank and Jesse Tuco cooking in the RV in the desert forever? 

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Offline El Barto

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1114 on: March 28, 2014, 08:12:44 AM »
Erm... "Whoosh" is a sound effect describing something flying over someone's head. In this case, it was Chino's comment "Was his character not to your satisfaction?" He was referencing Gus's common question in Los Pollos Hermanos: "Is everything to your satisfaction?"
To be fair, I didn't get either of those, either.
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1115 on: March 28, 2014, 08:54:26 AM »
Agreed and there are varied opinions nonetheless.  Fair enough and I appreciate your willingness to discuss instead of just dismissing it with a *whoosh*.   :lol
 

Well, you saying they got back on the right track by getting rid of Gus implies that focusing on him so much was the wrong, when, in reality, he was, more or less, a plot device to tell the Walter White story, so in that respect, I can see why someone thought that fact kind of went over your head.  I mean, take Gus out of the entire storyline and then it's just, what, Hank and Jesse cooking in the RV in the desert forever?  Yep, that would have been real exciting. :lol :lol  Plus, like Barto said, he was basically the main antagonist of the series, and while Walt was the antihero, he was still the protagonist, and thus the show still needed a main antagonist.

Yes, I realize that Gus was an integral character in the plot.  I never implied that it was wrong.  I said I was glad that the focus shifted back to Walt.  He's the one that initially had the power because of his ability to cook.  Gus had cameras everywhere playing big bro and Walt hated it.  I used to like Gus in the beginning but he became a real pain in the ass.  I liked it when Walt said a few episodes earlier that he wasn't in danger, he is the danger.  He proved it by taking Gus out.  That's what I was implying.


Agreed and there are varied opinions nonetheless.  Fair enough and I appreciate your willingness to discuss instead of just dismissing it with a *whoosh*.   :lol
I still have about 15 episodes to go, so who's the bigger monster still remains to be seen at least from my perspective.
Erm... "Whoosh" is a sound effect describing something flying over someone's head. In this case, it was Chino's comment "Was his character not to your satisfaction?" He was referencing Gus's common question in Los Pollos Hermanos: "Is everything to your satisfaction?"

Well, yeah now I remember Gus saying that.  One might have pointed that out in the first place.  Works a lot better than Whoosh.  ;)
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Online Chino

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1116 on: March 28, 2014, 08:57:43 AM »
Was his character not to your satisfaction?

Well, I thought I made that pretty clear in my post.  The character had major flaws and I'm glad they killed him off.  He let things get out of control and then killed and threatened others to make up for it.  He thought he was untouchable and he thought wrong.  It's always a pleasure to see karma come back around and kick some ass.  In this case, it happened to be Walt, who is the central character of the series.  The show began to revolve too much around Gus.  I'm glad they got back on the right track.
Whoosh.

My sentiment exactly. :lol :lol

I was just making a play on the first line we heard out of his mouth "Is your meal not to your satisfaction?" or something like that. Carry on.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1117 on: March 28, 2014, 10:26:02 AM »
Was his character not to your satisfaction?

Well, I thought I made that pretty clear in my post.  The character had major flaws and I'm glad they killed him off.  He let things get out of control and then killed and threatened others to make up for it.  He thought he was untouchable and he thought wrong.  It's always a pleasure to see karma come back around and kick some ass.  In this case, it happened to be Walt, who is the central character of the series.  The show began to revolve too much around Gus.  I'm glad they got back on the right track.
Whoosh.

My sentiment exactly. :lol :lol

I was just making a play on the first line we heard out of his mouth "Is your meal not to your satisfaction?" or something like that. Carry on.
The funny part is that I watched that scene a couple of days ago when this topic first came up, and it whooshed right the hell over my head too.  :lol


Yes, I realize that Gus was an integral character in the plot.  I never implied that it was wrong.  I said I was glad that the focus shifted back to Walt.  He's the one that initially had the power because of his ability to cook.  Gus had cameras everywhere playing big bro and Walt hated it.  I used to like Gus in the beginning but he became a real pain in the ass.  I liked it when Walt said a few episodes earlier that he wasn't in danger, he is the danger.  He proved it by taking Gus out.  That's what I was implying.
Well, I have to agree with Kev on this one. Without the Gus story line there's just not as much to do. What I believe that you will find is that for the next 8 episodes everything is pretty slow since Walt is essentially the protagonist and antagonist. It really works best when there's somebody against him rather than just his own personality issues. Once that opposition returns in part 2 of season 5 the thing takes off like a freaking roller coaster again.
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Offline MetalJunkie

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1118 on: March 28, 2014, 12:32:17 PM »
Erm... "Whoosh" is a sound effect describing something flying over someone's head. In this case, it was Chino's comment "Was his character not to your satisfaction?" He was referencing Gus's common question in Los Pollos Hermanos: "Is everything to your satisfaction?"
To be fair, I didn't get either of those, either.
I guess it's not as common a term as I thought. Something I picked up on reddit.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #1119 on: March 30, 2014, 03:38:36 PM »
Well, I just finished the last episode... man, what a fantastic series. I really can't say enough nice things about it.
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