Author Topic: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)  (Read 156311 times)

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Offline zerogravityfat

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #805 on: October 01, 2013, 06:10:25 AM »
After the credits, walter jr drops the crutches then starts walking normally towards 5 barrels, looks down and picks up a few stacks of hundreds out of 69 million.
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Offline RodrigoAltaf

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #806 on: October 01, 2013, 06:40:54 AM »
After the credits, walter jr drops the crutches then starts walking normally towards 5 barrels, looks down and picks up a few stacks of hundreds out of 69 million.

 That would have been awesome!

Offline Marion Crane

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #807 on: October 01, 2013, 08:39:12 AM »

Offline SomeoneLikeHim

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #808 on: October 01, 2013, 09:11:38 AM »
Ended the same way as my favorite anime (FMA Brotherhood)... Perfect but i didn't was totally satisfied  :-\
I think both endings were perfectly satisfying :biggrin:
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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #809 on: October 01, 2013, 09:40:07 AM »
It's never revealed, but I think it's a pretty safe bet that they were a couple and something happened between them and she got with Elliot. Walter, not bearing watching them together because of guilt or whatever left the company.


They did explained why Walt sold his share, Walt sold his stake because he needed the money for starting his family.  As for Walt and Gretchen, some flames burn out and it looks like they parted on good terms.  Not all ended relationships end in hate. 
     

Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #810 on: October 01, 2013, 10:06:08 AM »
Bah, you know what I meant, zepp-head. ;) :lol

You are both wrong.  That last shot cranes up.  A zoom is an optical thing with the lens changing focal lengths.  that last shot, the lens was fixed in the same focal length while the camera physically moves away from the subject. 

/filmguy   ;)
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Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #811 on: October 01, 2013, 10:15:46 AM »
It's never revealed, but I think it's a pretty safe bet that they were a couple and something happened between them and she got with Elliot. Walter, not bearing watching them together because of guilt or whatever left the company.


They did explained why Walt sold his share, Walt sold his stake because he needed the money for starting his family.  As for Walt and Gretchen, some flames burn out and it looks like they parted on good terms.  Not all ended relationships end in hate. 
He didn't say that exactly, he said to Jesse that sold his shares for a few months of rent. He never said it was because of his family, I thought he said that in a equivalent sense. Like "I bought that for x money or 2 plane tickets" sort of thing.
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Offline toro

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #812 on: October 01, 2013, 12:41:22 PM »
It's never revealed, but I think it's a pretty safe bet that they were a couple and something happened between them and she got with Elliot. Walter, not bearing watching them together because of guilt or whatever left the company.


They did explained why Walt sold his share, Walt sold his stake because he needed the money for starting his family.  As for Walt and Gretchen, some flames burn out and it looks like they parted on good terms.  Not all ended relationships end in hate.
It was explained that he left her during a vacation and then he sold his shares.
So Gretchen and Elliot got together after Walt left the company.
I imagined the story to go more like this.

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Offline zepp-head

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #813 on: October 01, 2013, 02:52:15 PM »
Bah, you know what I meant, zepp-head. ;) :lol

You are both wrong.  That last shot cranes up.  A zoom is an optical thing with the lens changing focal lengths.  that last shot, the lens was fixed in the same focal length while the camera physically moves away from the subject. 

/filmguy   ;)

Burn!  :lol

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Offline Chino

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #814 on: October 01, 2013, 02:56:13 PM »
I was wondering what the significance of Walt leaving the watch on top of the phone was, so I Googled it. Apparently they forgot to have WW wear it when they filmed the diner scene for S5E01. They had him take it off while filming this episode so people wouldn't bitch about a continuity error  :lol

Offline TioJorge

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #815 on: October 01, 2013, 03:27:09 PM »
Holy shit that's fucking awesome.  :rollin :metal :metal Now that is the kind of attention to detail I like to see.

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Offline Outcrier

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #816 on: October 01, 2013, 03:51:17 PM »
Ended the same way as my favorite anime (FMA Brotherhood)... Perfect but i didn't was totally satisfied  :-\
I think both endings were perfectly satisfying :biggrin:

The ending that most satisfied me was the one from Code Geass, Okarin  :tup
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Offline SomeoneLikeHim

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #817 on: October 01, 2013, 03:55:50 PM »
Ended the same way as my favorite anime (FMA Brotherhood)... Perfect but i didn't was totally satisfied  :-\
I think both endings were perfectly satisfying :biggrin:

The ending that most satisfied me was the one from Code Geass, Okarin  :tup
Now that is one fine ending :metal But enough about anime, there's another thread for that :)
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Offline reneranucci

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #818 on: October 01, 2013, 05:52:00 PM »
The ending was good, adequate to the series.

A couple of loose ends I would like to have more information above:

- How and when did Walter exactly poisoned Brock? The kid shows resentment to him, but I can't find any indication of any chance that Walt had to do it.
- What happens to Brock after Andrea is killed?

I would have like the series to explore more about Walt's life at graduate school and his relationship with Gretchen. The scene where they were describing the composition of the human body is one of the most beautiful in the series. And watching those episodes again, it is clear to me that Walter absolutely hates Gretchen.

Offline reneranucci

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #819 on: October 01, 2013, 06:09:33 PM »
THIS IS A CRAZY THEORY, BUT BEAR WITH ME, PLEASE:

Taking into account all the movie lovers we have in this forum, it surprises me that no one has mentioned that many scenes of the last episode are mini-homages to scenes from other movies. I made this discovery myself, and I don't think my theory is too far-fetched. Of course, these examples could be only be coincidences, but the way the scenes are built and shot makes me think that they're intentional. It would be nice if other people could find other references:

- Walt getting the car keys: a clear allusion to Terminator 2, where John Connor shows the Terminator how to find the keys to steal a car. Again, it might be a coincidence, but by the way the scene was shot, when Walter enters the car, I immediately said to myself "he'll find the keys behind the rear mirror". It immediately rang a bell.

- Jesse building the wooden box: this is a reference to a previous episode where Jesse tells how much he worked on the box, and that he gave it to his mother. He then says that's a lie and that he actually exchanged it for narcotics. The carpenter, the music, the clothes Jesse is wearing and the color of that scene obviously reminded me of Jesus being portrayed as a carpenter in many movies. The way Jesse reclines to watch his finished work is almost exactly the same that at 00:06 of this scene of the Passion of the Christ : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzzVwci8qJY

- Walt talking to Elliot: "Elliott, if we're gonna go that way, you'll need a bigger knife". Jaws, anybody?

- Jesse using the handcuffs to strangle Todd: this is the most obvious one. Anton Chigurh did the same to a police officer at the beginning of No Country for Old Men https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_9KNP9I6YA It was so obvious to me that when Todd was looking through the window I told myself "Jesse should pull off an Anton Chigurh on Todd".

- There is a couple of scenes I know I've seen in other movies. When Walt extends his arms widely to close the Schwarz house's door, I know I've seen that somewhere else. Again, it's not only him closing the doors, but the way he extends his arms while the shot is on his back. The other is when he leaves his watch over the phone. We have an explanation of why he did that, but I know I've seen that somewhere else. It wasn't a watch in the other movie, but again, the shot is similar.

- Walt faking his cancer: I´m sorry, this only happens in Breaking Bad.

Does anybody agree with me, or am I crazy? Am I reading too much on the scenes? Can anybody find other scenes?

 

Offline zepp-head

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #820 on: October 01, 2013, 06:10:17 PM »
Walt gave Brock a lollipop or a sucker at some point, I'm a little hazy on the details, but it's the only time it could have happened.

I have to imagine Jesse reunites with Brock at some point.

Offline antigoon

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #821 on: October 01, 2013, 06:10:39 PM »
The poisoning happened off-camera.

Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #822 on: October 01, 2013, 06:44:42 PM »
I don't know if you're reading too much into the episode, rene, but I definitely said to my friends "Walt watched T2" when he got the car keys. :lol
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Offline reneranucci

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #823 on: October 01, 2013, 06:57:48 PM »
I don't know if you're reading too much into the episode, rene, but I definitely said to my friends "Walt watched T2" when he got the car keys. :lol
And Jesse watched No Country for Old Men . Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if that movie was in heavy rotation in Uncle Jack's movie nights  :lol

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #824 on: October 01, 2013, 06:59:03 PM »
None of those are really 'homages' for the most part - certainly an homage requires referencing a scene that is 'iconic' or recognizable in some way.

The keys in the visor thing is a common trope, the carpentry bit is something that basically every carpenter in every woodworking scene in every movie ever has done, handcuff strangling is another common trope, and closing the double doors is a shot seen all over. It was in the last season of Game of Thrones, you see it in reverse when Aragorn returns to Edoras in The Two Towers, and more. It's just a dramatic shot, nothing more.

The Jaws line is also a line that sounds very much like something Mike would say. Or maybe Walt just watched Crocodile Dundee on the drive to ABQ. Or maybe a whole combination of them.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #825 on: October 01, 2013, 07:48:03 PM »
I don't know if you're reading too much into the episode, rene, but I definitely said to my friends "Walt watched T2" when he got the car keys. :lol

I thought of Independence Day

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #826 on: October 01, 2013, 10:11:10 PM »
I was wondering what the significance of Walt leaving the watch on top of the phone was, so I Googled it. Apparently they forgot to have WW wear it when they filmed the diner scene for S5E01. They had him take it off while filming this episode so people wouldn't bitch about a continuity error  :lol

Plus, it made sense, since Jesse had given him the watch for his 51st, so ditching the watch was like severing his last tie with Jesse (at the time).


- What happens to Brock after Andrea is killed?
 

He likely gets raised either in a foster home or by his grandma.  IIRC, his grandma briefly appeared at one point and didn't like Jesse very much, so either she got custody of him or he went into a foster home.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #827 on: October 01, 2013, 10:14:06 PM »
Question: When is the exact moment when Walter dies?  Some friends and I had a fun discussion about that.  The three theories:

1. He died before hitting the ground.
2. He died shortly after hitting the ground (you can almost see his eyes go from open when he is lying there to closed, although it is hard to say for sure).
3. He died the second the screen went black (about 55 seconds after he hits the ground; the screen stays black for several seconds before the final credit rolls).

Number 1 was my pick.

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #828 on: October 01, 2013, 10:17:05 PM »
My impression when I watched the episode was number 2.

Offline senecadawg2

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #829 on: October 01, 2013, 10:34:48 PM »
My impression when I watched the episode was number 2.

Me too...


Also, I've decided that I refuse to believe in a happy ending for Jessie. Not to say that that's exactly where VG is leading us... But having Jessie escape alive did seem to lessen what was, otherwise, a tragic ending. Still, like I said, I'm not buying it. Everything Jessie cared about was destroyed, with the exception of the recently orphaned Brock. And given everything we know about Jessie, when faced with depression, he most likely met his end at the hand of an overdose. At least, that's how I'll always envisage the end of his arc.
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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #830 on: October 01, 2013, 10:48:31 PM »
He was quite twitchy when he hit the ground (his face and his right hand in particular), but I don't think that means much. The cut to black seemed to be more of a musical cue than anything else. Also, Johnny assumed he was dead right off the bat. Notice how most of them continue their sweep while two stay back to cover him, but neither check him for a gun or a pulse. So basically, who the hell knows. I'm gonna go with number 2, but I don't think the eyes close; the spasms just make it look like they might.


So anyhoo, just wrapped it up and I think the last 8 episodes were probably better than the first 5 1/2 seasons combined. The necessity of wrapping things up seems to have lit a fire under their ass, causing them to really crank the narrative up a notch.

Now, here's the thing that bugs me. Am I the only one who thought Hank acted like a real asshole upon discovering that he'd been fooled? In fact, I think most of them did, but Hank in particular. As I see it, he took the whole thing way too personally. Yeah, Walt really bamboozled him, but I think I'd be more interested in the details than going all Khan on WW. As soon as he figured it out, his career was over, he was going to go down in disgrace, and he might well get implicated in the whole thing once a staggeringly thorough investigation is complete. At that point, it was time to cut his losses and find the best way out for everybody. Taking the time to talk things through and gain some insight would have been a far more appropriate response than just assuming all of the worst possibilities and getting all blood-lusty. Were it me, I probably would have belted him once in the nose, and then sat down to talk the whole thing out over a couple of beers. Finding out about Gus, and Beddiker, and the other miscellaneous bodies would have been more important, I think. And in the process he would have discovered that a lot of what he assumes about "Heisenberg" isn't really the case.

I was also disappointed to see Jesse get away. I never really had much against him until he turned snitch. If he couldn't burn the house down, fine, but he should have told Hank to go fuck himself and waited for another chance. Get your revenge or die trying, but don't go to the fucking cops.

Most of Walt's family was completely worthless. His wife and sister-in-law were always annoying and troublesome, and his son was generally pretty miserable. The final straw being calling 911 and saying it was Walt who pulled the knife and was running amok. I say fuck all of them.

Which is the most interesting irony of all. The part of the entire story that most interested me was seeing a sympathetic and generally likeable fellow very gradually turn into a vicious, psychopathic bastard. Yet in the end, Walt was actually the only one of the lot that I actually think was worth a fuck. Not because he redeemed himself; that certainly didn't happen. Just because he was the one who almost always did the right thing under the given circumstances. While all of the rest of them failed miserably in that regard, Walt usually made the strong move, and in the end he was the only actual winner; the only one who actually accomplished exactly what he wanted to. He lived a little longer than he expected, but more importantly he really lived. Plus, the family is going to get 9 million bucks, despite their bitching, whining and snarkyness. The fact that those awful people are going to living off of blood money without even realizing actually makes me somewhat happy.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #831 on: October 01, 2013, 11:46:59 PM »
I think the way Hank acted was pretty consistent with the way he always acted.  Factor in how pissed he was about being duped, and the way he acted didn't surprise me at all.  Remember that when he showed Walt Gale's book about WW and all that (the night they had dinner at Hank and Marie's, when they told them the b.s. gambling story...early in Season 4, I think), when Walt said, "It sounds like you got him," in reference to Gale/Heisenberg being killed, Hank's reply was that he wanted to be the one who caught him and slapped the cuffs on him.  Hank had that big ego thing, and he always wanted to be "the man," the one who did it all.  And that was ultimately his downfall, which was a shame since his cop instincts were pretty damn good.

As for Jesse, I was happy he got away.  He was always in over his head.  He never wanted to be a part of that world to the extent that Walt pulled him into.  He struck me as just a dumb, young kid who wanted to sell crystal and make some easy fat stacks.  Killing anyone or anything like that was never part of the equation, in his mind, and he was basically dragged into that kind of thing by Walt (like, how Walt insisting on expanding their territory is what got Combo killed and started the ball rolling in that direction).  And considering the mental anguish he went through, from the deaths of Jane, Gale, Drew Sharp, and Andrea, to the hell he went through for months being held prisoner by Todd, I'd say he more than paid for his sins.

Vince Gilligan was on The Colbert Report last night, and when asked by Colbert what the worst thing Walt ever did was, I was stunned by his answer.  He said that Walt throwing it in Jesse's face that he watched Jane die was the worst thing.  All I could think was, "How is that worse than poisoning a child?"  Yes, Walt did have redeeming qualities, and he was by and large a likable character despite his many flaws, but poisoning Brock was a reprehensible, indefensible act.  But I honestly think some don't hold that against Walt to the extent they should because a) we never saw his giving him the poison, b) we never saw Brock suffering (we only saw a worried Andrea and Jesse at the hospital, and c) we were so wanting Walt to kill Gus at the end of 4 before Gus could kill him that I think some probably looked at Walt poisoning Brock to get Jesse back on his side, which was a must in order to defeat Gus, as a means to an end.  Sad, but I think that is true for a lot of people.

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #832 on: October 02, 2013, 12:19:28 AM »
I think the way Hank acted was pretty consistent with the way he always acted.  Factor in how pissed he was about being duped, and the way he acted didn't surprise me at all.  Remember that when he showed Walt Gale's book about WW and all that (the night they had dinner at Hank and Marie's, when they told them the b.s. gambling story...early in Season 4, I think), when Walt said, "It sounds like you got him," in reference to Gale/Heisenberg being killed, Hank's reply was that he wanted to be the one who caught him and slapped the cuffs on him.  Hank had that big ego thing, and he always wanted to be "the man," the one who did it all.  And that was ultimately his downfall, which was a shame since his cop instincts were pretty damn good.
I pretty much agree with this, but that doesn't change the fact that he was wrong. Like I said, he took it too personally. Add to that, those good cop instincts didn't help him out any, either. From my perspective, and I thought this for a while, he really drank the Nancy Reagan Kool-Aid. He really believed in the war on drugs, where most cops pretty much don't. Factor that in with the ego issues, and I suppose it's not at all surprising that he got so crazed about it, but that doesn't negate the mistake.

A few more things about Hank. I'll point out that based on what he thought he knew about Walt, going after him with nothing but Gomez (who I actually did like) was a stupid thing to do. A big strike against those cop instincts.

While his ventilation didn't bother me one bit, I will say that I'm a huge fan of a dignified death, and his was excellent. At least the dude got his execution right.

The one thing that bothers me about Walt's demise is that everybody thinks he killed Hank. Walt was a bastard, and his own faults certainly led to Hank's offing, but in his own way Walt did absolutely everything he could to try and save him. He offered everything he made, which was intended for his family, in exchange for Hank's life, and in the end even his own worthless family thinks he murdered him. That's a shame.

And I think I agree with VG. Telling Jesse he watched Jane die probably was the worst thing he did. Letting her die might be second, but she was pretty much a cunt anyway. As for Brock, I think the assumption is that there was never really any danger. Lilly of the Valley is actually used as a folk remedy, so it stands to reason that somebody with Walt's chemistry skills could refine it in such a way that it would cause effects that looked far more severe than they actually were. Then Jesse runs in screaming about ricin and that ratchets up the tension. Walt certainly exploited the kid, but I don't think he was ever close to killing him.
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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #833 on: October 02, 2013, 12:24:12 AM »
As for Brock, I think the assumption is that there was never really any danger. Lilly of the Valley is actually used as a folk remedy, so it stands to reason that somebody with Walt's chemistry skills could refine it in such a way that it would cause effects that looked far more severe than they actually were. Then Jesse runs in screaming about ricin and that ratchets up the tension. Walt certainly exploited the kid, but I don't think he was ever close to killing him.

Along with this is the matter of necessity. Walt felt it was necessary to get Jesse on his side by poisoning Brock, however rubbing it in was entirely an act of malice. He had already sentenced Jesse to death, but decided just to crush him a little bit more before the end. In reality, it's one of the few truly purposeless things Walt has done.
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Offline 7StringedBeast

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #834 on: October 02, 2013, 12:29:38 AM »
I think the way Hank acted was pretty consistent with the way he always acted.  Factor in how pissed he was about being duped, and the way he acted didn't surprise me at all.  Remember that when he showed Walt Gale's book about WW and all that (the night they had dinner at Hank and Marie's, when they told them the b.s. gambling story...early in Season 4, I think), when Walt said, "It sounds like you got him," in reference to Gale/Heisenberg being killed, Hank's reply was that he wanted to be the one who caught him and slapped the cuffs on him.  Hank had that big ego thing, and he always wanted to be "the man," the one who did it all.  And that was ultimately his downfall, which was a shame since his cop instincts were pretty damn good.
I pretty much agree with this, but that doesn't change the fact that he was wrong. Like I said, he took it too personally. Add to that, those good cop instincts didn't help him out any, either. From my perspective, and I thought this for a while, he really drank the Nancy Reagan Kool-Aid. He really believed in the war on drugs, where most cops pretty much don't. Factor that in with the ego issues, and I suppose it's not at all surprising that he got so crazed about it, but that doesn't negate the mistake.

A few more things about Hank. I'll point out that based on what he thought he knew about Walt, going after him with nothing but Gomez (who I actually did like) was a stupid thing to do. A big strike against those cop instincts.

While his ventilation didn't bother me one bit, I will say that I'm a huge fan of a dignified death, and his was excellent. At least the dude got his execution right.

The one thing that bothers me about Walt's demise is that everybody thinks he killed Hank. Walt was a bastard, and his own faults certainly led to Hank's offing, but in his own way Walt did absolutely everything he could to try and save him. He offered everything he made, which was intended for his family, in exchange for Hank's life, and in the end even his own worthless family thinks he murdered him. That's a shame.

And I think I agree with VG. Telling Jesse he watched Jane die probably was the worst thing he did. Letting her die might be second, but she was pretty much a cunt anyway. As for Brock, I think the assumption is that there was never really any danger. Lilly of the Valley is actually used as a folk remedy, so it stands to reason that somebody with Walt's chemistry skills could refine it in such a way that it would cause effects that looked far more severe than they actually were. Then Jesse runs in screaming about ricin and that ratchets up the tension. Walt certainly exploited the kid, but I don't think he was ever close to killing him.

Regarding Jane.  I always interpreted it as Walt doing what was necessary to save Jesse's life.  By letting Jane die, he knew he could get Jesse away from Heroin.  With Jane alive and Jesse in love with her, he would surely have gone down a path leading to his demise via heroin.  Walt let Jane die to save Jesse's life.
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Offline Dimitrius

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #835 on: October 02, 2013, 07:13:22 AM »
No way! Walt let Jane die because she blackmailed him and was getting in the way of Jesse cooking with him.

And it may be a shame for Walt's family (and everyone else) to think he killed Hank while he did everything possible to save him, but would anyone believe him after what he did to Gus? We do because we saw what he did to save him but Skyler, Marie, Walt Jr., the rest of the world doesn't know and will never know, so there's really no way for him to be "redeemed" of that.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #836 on: October 02, 2013, 07:34:05 AM »
No way! Walt let Jane die because she blackmailed him and was getting in the way of Jesse cooking with him.


Definitely. Remember how Jesse was ready to get up and leave with her to go live somewhere else?

I was reading last night that that scene was suppose to play out differently. In the original script, Walt sneaks into the bedroom and Jane is on her side when she starts throwing up. Walt rolled her on her back intentionally so she'd choke to death. I like the version we saw better, mainly because Walt cried and we felt that he had at least a little bit of humility.

Offline GuineaPig

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #837 on: October 02, 2013, 08:13:00 AM »
I think it's better that way, at least for where the show was then. 
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Offline TimmyHiggy

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #838 on: October 02, 2013, 08:30:25 AM »
This has been the only TV show where I feel a pang of sadness that its over. I listened to "baby blue" and "crystal blue persuasion" earlier today and it really hit home how much I will miss it.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Breaking Bad (**SPOILERS MAY BE PRESENT**)
« Reply #839 on: October 02, 2013, 08:55:23 AM »

A few more things about Hank. I'll point out that based on what he thought he knew about Walt, going after him with nothing but Gomez (who I actually did like) was a stupid thing to do. A big strike against those cop instincts. 

Nah, that was a tactical error, not an instinctual one.

The one thing that bothers me about Walt's demise is that everybody thinks he killed Hank. Walt was a bastard, and his own faults certainly led to Hank's offing, but in his own way Walt did absolutely everything he could to try and save him. He offered everything he made, which was intended for his family, in exchange for Hank's life, and in the end even his own worthless family thinks he murdered him. That's a shame.

True, but Walt pretty much lost any benefit of the doubt with anyone he cared about, which was of his own doing.  However, he did tell Skyler in the last episode that the men he was gonna take care of were the ones who killed Hank.  He didn't explicitly say, "I didn't kill Hank," but considering how honest she could tell he was being in that, their final conversation, it is very possible that she will go forward thinking that Walt was not the man who actually killed Hank, even if he still shares a ton of culpability for it.

As for Brock, I think the assumption is that there was never really any danger. Lilly of the Valley is actually used as a folk remedy, so it stands to reason that somebody with Walt's chemistry skills could refine it in such a way that it would cause effects that looked far more severe than they actually were. Then Jesse runs in screaming about ricin and that ratchets up the tension. Walt certainly exploited the kid, but I don't think he was ever close to killing him.

Along with this is the matter of necessity. Walt felt it was necessary to get Jesse on his side by poisoning Brock, however rubbing it in was entirely an act of malice. He had already sentenced Jesse to death, but decided just to crush him a little bit more before the end. In reality, it's one of the few truly purposeless things Walt has done.

True.  Therein lies the difference with regards to intent: he poisoned Brock basically cause he needed Jesse's help to save his own life; it was self-preservation.  He told Jesse about Jane simply as one last FU to Jesse before he was gonna be taken away to be tortured and then killed.

Walt let Jane die because she blackmailed him and was getting in the way of Jesse cooking with him.

Exactly.  Plus, she knew everything about Walt, thanks to Jesse's big mouth telling her, so Walt viewed her as someone who would always be out there and could out him at any time, so while his natural instincts were to try and help (like when he hurried around to her side of the bed with his hands outstretched, like he was gonna help her), the pragmatic part of his criminal self then kicked in and he realized that her dying was best for Jesse, their business, and most importantly, himself.