Will the US default?

[Super Dude]

In the latest episode of "America's Goverment Makes Me Want to Tear My Hair Out": https://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/us/politics/23fiscal.html

[ReaPsTA]

This is getting almost entertaining.  Everyone complains about the Republicans being vitriolic, but that's exactly how they sell themselves.  While vitriol isn't really good for running the country, but it's still hard to complain in a way.  What I really love is the erudite, moderate, thoughtful Obama giving a speech where he rips off Mike Portnoyesque passive aggressive insults at the Republicans.  

EDIT:

“They are going to have to explain to me how it is that we are going to avoid default,” Obama said. “And they can come up with any plans that they want and bring them up here and we will work on them. The only bottom line that I have is that we have to extend this debt ceiling through the next election, into 2013.”

Amazing.  Is this the closest we'll ever see to a politician admitting he only cares about winning elections?

EDIT 2:  It's probably just me, but how can Obama not get killed politically for this?  Isn't losing your cool on national TV the most non-confidence inspiring thing you can do?

[Perpetual Change]

Sure.

But why didn't you respond to my last response?

[Super Dude]

Apparently today is the beginning of the last set of talks before they either come to an agreement or let the world fall into a second Great Depression.

[Scheavo]

Amazing.  Is this the closest we'll ever see to a politician admitting he only cares about winning elections?

Watch some Mitch McConnell videos... he pretty much admitted people disagree with the guy in the Whitehouse when he's from the other party, and not because of any ideological standpoint.

Also, not increasing the debt-ceiling past the election is much more of a political game then increasing it past the election. Republicans only want it to come up again before the election so that they can try and talk about Obama and "his" supposed debt problem right around election time.

EDIT 2:  It's probably just me, but how can Obama not get killed politically for this?  Isn't losing your cool on national TV the most non-confidence inspiring thing you can do?

I wish he would have lost his cool during the Health Care debates. Sometimes, it doesn't inspire confidence when you don't lose your cool. It's hardly as if the man was actually raging, he was legitimately venting frustration at a Republican caucus that has it's hard so far up it's fucking ass it's amazing.

[Super Dude]

Amazing.  Is this the closest we'll ever see to a politician admitting he only cares about winning elections?

Watch some Mitch McConnell videos... he pretty much admitted people disagree with the guy in the Whitehouse when he's from the other party, and not because of any ideological standpoint.

Also, not increasing the debt-ceiling past the election is much more of a political game then increasing it past the election. Republicans only want it to come up again before the election so that they can try and talk about Obama and "his" supposed debt problem right around election time.

EDIT 2:  It's probably just me, but how can Obama not get killed politically for this?  Isn't losing your cool on national TV the most non-confidence inspiring thing you can do?

I wish he would have lost his cool during the Health Care debates. Sometimes, it doesn't inspire confidence when you don't lose your cool. It's hardly as if the man was actually raging, he was legitimately venting frustration at a Republican caucus that has it's hard so far up it's fucking ass it's amazing.

All of this, and to the second point I'd like to add that losing your cool is a perfectly legitimate tactic when your constituents want an explanation.  You get the sense that he really is trying to make this work and it's the other party that's being uncooperative.

[antigoon]

Yeah, I thought Obama gave a good press conference. I like to see some genuine emotion from our leaders every once in a while. This whole thing is just getting silly at this point. Boehner is NOT coming off well in this at all.

[Riceball]

So, whats the reporting like in the US at the moment? All I'm getting over here is "TIME IS RUNNING OUT ZOMG!!1!"

[Super Dude]

It's not getting that much coverage, but pretty much the same.  Yep.

Good thing my family started a vegetable garden this summer, ought to tide us over.

‎"Would you rather reduce deficits and interest rates by raising revenue from those who are not now paying their fair share, or would you rather accept larger budget deficits, higher interest rates, and higher unemployment? And I think I know your answer.”- Reagan, calling it like it is

[Scheavo]

Boehner's response was horrible. He made a couple of good points, and the rest were basically lies, half-truths or naive.

I wish Obama would have just called the corporate loopholes and tax breaks he wants to cut what they really are: corruption. He flirts around it sometimes, but never comes out and says it. He calls our government broken, and othe things, but I don't think I've ever seen him call it corrupt. He almost said it during his State of the Union, he spelled it out and everything.

[Super Dude]

I hate to sound like just some mindless Obama defender, but I genuinely think there's a good reason he sidesteps the word 'corruption.'  In my mind he's probably trying to avoid pissing off a certain someone or someones who'd really make his presidency hell.

[PraXis]

"The fact that we're here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. Leadership means 'The buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit." - Barack Hussein Obama, 2006

[MetalMike06]

"The fact that we're here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. Leadership means 'The buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit." - Barack Hussein Obama, 2006

 

[Sigz]

Not surprising in the least. The debt ceiling is basically just a political football that's carried by whatever party's in the minority. There were a fair few democrats who voted against raising it under Bush, and the same the same republicans opposing it now had no problem raising it while under him.

[Super Dude]

That's funny, considering for the last month or so he's been talking about raising the debt limit when it's been the Republicans who've been so completely devoid of common sense.

Oh look, I can't find this quote on anything other than pundit and alarmist sites.  Go figure.

I'd also like to say that I'm glad Obama is using the public appeal option, something that AFAIK has been sorely lacking from his bag o' tricks until now.  My biggest complaint of Obama has been that he has good ideas but he doesn't do shit to fight for them.  Well, if he can make this public appeal work, he's just made the first big step towards addressing my complaint.

[PraXis]

I'm glad the statists are all butthurt since the November 2010 slaughter. The progressive agenda will be dead for decades.

[Adami]

I'm glad the statists are all butthurt since the November 2010 slaughter. The progressive agenda will be dead for decades.

Have you ever noticed that a great deal of your posts here are usually limited to a simple "us vs. them" message?

[Super Dude]

I'm glad the statists are all butthurt since the November 2010 slaughter. The progressive agenda will be dead for decades.

A regressive agenda is nothing to be proud of, my friend.

[PraXis]

I'm glad the statists are all butthurt since the November 2010 slaughter. The progressive agenda will be dead for decades.

Have you ever noticed that a great deal of your posts here are usually limited to a simple "us vs. them" message?

Of course. We have a one party crony-capitalist system masquerading as a false paradigm of a two party system. It is designed to pin left vs right, Dem vs. Repub, etc etc. It's people like me who support the law of the land over the statists who have been controlled by the banksters since 1913.

[Adami]

I'm glad the statists are all butthurt since the November 2010 slaughter. The progressive agenda will be dead for decades.

Have you ever noticed that a great deal of your posts here are usually limited to a simple "us vs. them" message?

Of course. We have a one party crony-capitalist system masquerading as a false paradigm of a two party system. It is designed to pin left vs right, Dem vs. Repub, etc etc. It's people like me who support the law of the land over the statists who have been controlled by the banksters since 1913.

Yea, you lost me. But it's all good. Pretend I'm not here.

[Super Dude]

[MasterShakezula]

Um, I understand that gov. corruption and its love affair with corporate America are horrendous, but I think that's all it is.  Makes a lot more sense than some vague theory about reptiles and the Crusades and how bankers make money off of WW1. 

Why exactly do people believe in that?

[Super Dude]

In order to deal with the vast complexities of real life that they find challenging to cope or deal with, they require simple explanations that put everyone but them at fault.

[Riceball]

Because Americans are stupid.






















And what SD said. 

[PraXis]

That's fine. Believe in your Federal Reserve. They're looking out for the interests of the country, they swear. 

[Super Dude]

That's fine. Believe in your Federal Reserve. They're looking out for the interests of the country, they swear. 

And you can go on believing the entire world is out to get you if that really makes you happy.  But I can't imagine how anyone can feel good with that sort of mindset.

[GuineaPig]

1913 seems such an arbitrary date.

[Super Dude]

That's when the fat cat bankers decided it was time to start a world war, duh.

[Scheavo]

I hate to sound like just some mindless Obama defender, but I genuinely think there's a good reason he sidesteps the word 'corruption.'  In my mind he's probably trying to avoid pissing off a certain someone or someones who'd really make his presidency hell.

Ya, that doesn't fly with me. Giving up is the easiest way to ensure the status quo stays the status quo.

[MasterShakezula]

Yeah, I mean, really now, there's no way a war in Europe that America entered during the final year could have anything to do with something like massive amounts of pre-existing nationalism and militarism, as well as a convoluted alliance system.  

And, also, I don't like Obama, but I doubt I'd of liked McCain, either. 

[Riceball]

On a somewhat related note, what the hell is up with Bohner's suit/shirt/tie combo? Black on blue on green...

[Super Dude]

I hate to sound like just some mindless Obama defender, but I genuinely think there's a good reason he sidesteps the word 'corruption.'  In my mind he's probably trying to avoid pissing off a certain someone or someones who'd really make his presidency hell.

Ya, that doesn't fly with me. Giving up is the easiest way to ensure the status quo stays the status quo.

I'm not saying he's giving up, but I can imagine there might be some tremendous difficulties he's trying to avoid while trying to bring about his vision in other ways.  Obviously that's not working well, but it could be that the shit would really hit the fan even more than now if he went the other route.  We may never know.

[Riceball]

Sorry to double-post, but I've found a bit of pretty impartial commentary debunking some of the myths associated with the whole saga:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/crazy-things-on-the-us-debt-ceiling/story-e6frg9if-1226102022322

EDIT: Saved by Super Dude.

[reo73]

Sorry to double-post, but I've found a bit of pretty impartial commentary debunking some of the myths associated with the whole saga:

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/opinion/crazy-things-on-the-us-debt-ceiling/story-e6frg9if-1226102022322

EDIT: Saved by Super Dude.

Good article, unfortunately our 2 party system does not allow for such level headedness and common sense in solving our problems.

[PowerSlave]

On a somewhat related note, what the hell is up with Bohner's suit/shirt/tie combo? Black on blue on green...

You forgot to mention the orange.