When the man (or woman) behind the music is disappointing

[Perpetual Change]

Has anyone ever really loved a band or a record, and then been completely disappointed when they found out what the artist behind it was like? Or, is anyone able to simply get passed the obnoxiousness an simply enjoy the music?

When I was a dumb teenager I was obsessed with Tool, but as I got older I grew to loathe Maynard Keenan. One one end, he's got a seriously pseudo-intellectual thing going on, as any old interviews (circa Aenima or Lateralus) with him will testify too. On the other, he's got this really bizarre sense of humor where you'll go to see a show and he'll just crack jokes about anal sex the whole time. Finally, he's got his political side, where he seems to unleash his own inner (less articulate) Keith Olbermann. I still like Tool alot, and throughout high school I was obsessed with them, but I simply can't bear listening to Maynard James Keenan talk. That goes for his live banter, too.

I'll update this with more as I think of them. Until then, you guys have a go 
 

[zxlkho]

I tend to ignore it for the most part. Maynard, Dave Mustaine, and Mike Portnoy are very good examples. It really doesn't cause me to think any lower of the music.

[ClairvoyantCat]

John Lennon. 

I grew up from a very, very early age with my favorite song being "I am the Walrus," and with my youthful mind being what it was, I always imagined the guy behind it to be a walrus-looking character.  Then one day I saw an actual performance of them and realized that he did not actually resemble a walrus in any way.  Everything fell apart. 

[Accelerando]

John Lennon. 

I grew up from a very, very early age with my favorite song being "I am the Walrus," and with my youthful mind being what it was, I always imagined the guy behind it to be a walrus-looking character.  Then one day I saw an actual performance of them and realized that he did not actually resemble a walrus in any way.  Everything fell apart. 

 

[zxlkho]

[KevShmev]

Or, is anyone able to simply get passed the obnoxiousness an simply enjoy the music?
 

I can always do that.  The quality of the music is ultimately what matters the most, and if the music is good, I don't care if the biggest d-bags in the world wrote it.

But for me, the best example of this is Roger Waters.  I can still enjoy Floyd's music and Amused to Death (his one great solo album) to death despite him being a very unlikeable guy.  

[dongringo]

Usually I'm able to overlook it, but when the artist puts out a crap album, then it's a different story. Geoff Tate for example. I could overlook the fact that he hired outside writers to help write OM:ll and American Soldier. And I could overlook the caberet tour even though I used to think he had class, when in reality he's a sleeze bag. But as soon as he put out that piece of garbage called Dedicated To Chaos, I lost any respect I had left for the man.

[Perpetual Change]

Geoff Tate is a good example. As is Ryan's Dave Mustaine pick. Haven't listened to his music much, but if I did I'd know his ranting is something I'd have to get past. The Portnoy pick is also interesting. He's a little self-congratulating, and has a tendency to be hyperbolic. It never bothered me when he was in DT, but when I see things like in the A7X interview that came out a couple months ago where he says (sic) "I spent every single hour of my life for the fans" in a response to a question about how he's taking the fans being less positive towards him, it's hard for me to take his side. Kinda like it's hard to feel sorry for someone when they keep telling you that you should. But I'm hoping this is all just a phase he's going through in his transition from being in DT to doing new things because, on the flipside, he's an awesome showman and the better parts of his personality really shine when you see him playing up close, smiling and interacting with fans.

Another guy who's kinda like this with me is Bob Dylan. Love the music, but he always acted like a complete d-bag in front of the press. I borrowed a book of interviews with him from the library awhile back and couldn't get through it. 60s and 70s Dylan is a raving lunatic. 80s Dylan is obnoxiously preachy. Now he's just kinda like a maleavolent troll, but I suppose it's better than what he once was.

For reference to Dylan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjXAFEZUBGY

[zxlkho]

Holy lol that interview.

[Adami]

Daniel Gildenlow.


He is without a doubt my favorite singer/songwriter and in my opinion one of the greatest to have ever lived. However his personality since Scarsick or so just makes me want to punch him in the face. And he is constantly getting more and more and more self involved, it's disgusting. While I usually wouldn't let it bother me, it's leaking over into his music and that bothers me.

[KevShmev]

The Portnoy pick is also interesting. He's a little self-congratulating, and has a tendency to be hyperbolic. It never bothered me when he was in DT, but when I see things like in the A7X interview that came out a couple months ago where he says (sic) "I spent every single hour of my life for the fans" in a response to a question about how he's taking the fans being less positive towards him, it's hard for me to take his side. Kinda like it's hard to feel sorry for someone when they keep telling you that you should. But I'm hoping this is all just a phase he's going through in his transition from being in DT to doing new things because, on the flipside, he's an awesome showman and the better parts of his personality really shine when you see him playing up close, smiling and interacting with fans.

I generally agree with this.  I think the problem is that he worries too much about the fans, what they want, and their reactions.  He is clearly bothered when he feels he isn't given enough attention for everything he does, which is why he is constantly reminding everyone of all of the little things he does.  That is textbook Psychology 101.  Or in the case of the recent DT drama, he obviously wants everyone to believe his side of the story and to think that DT isn't as good without him.  So, really, it is a double-edged sword with him, as he wouldn't be who he is without doing all of the stuff he does, but the fact that he takes everything so personally is also part of it.  His personality dictates that you cannot have one without the other. 

[Gadough]

I grew up with the band Korn. In junior high, I got their Deuce DVD, which is basically a compilation of footage of the band members fucking around. I remember being shocked at how happy and goofy they were. After a few years of listening to their incredibly dark lyrics and music, seeing them cracking jokes and laughing for 2 hours really weirded me out. Their personalities did not match the music they played, and that bothered me. It made Korn seem...I dunno. Insincere. I was expecting them to be mopey, depressed goth guys. When that turned out to be the opposite of what they were really like, it did disappoint me a little.

[contest_sanity]

I grew up with the band Korn. In junior high, I got their Deuce DVD, which is basically a compilation of footage of the band members fucking around. I remember being shocked at how happy and goofy they were. After a few years of listening to their incredibly dark lyrics and music, seeing them cracking jokes and laughing for 2 hours really weirded me out. Their personalities did not match the music they played, and that bothered me. It made Korn seem...I dunno. Insincere. I was expecting them to be mopey, depressed goth guys. When that turned out to be the opposite of what they were really like, it did disappoint me a little.

So I guess ICP's Right-Minded and Serious Isolationists DVD must have really put you off.

[dongringo]

I grew up with the band Korn. In junior high, I got their Deuce DVD, which is basically a compilation of footage of the band members fucking around. I remember being shocked at how happy and goofy they were. After a few years of listening to their incredibly dark lyrics and music, seeing them cracking jokes and laughing for 2 hours really weirded me out. Their personalities did not match the music they played, and that bothered me. It made Korn seem...I dunno. Insincere. I was expecting them to be mopey, depressed goth guys. When that turned out to be the opposite of what they were really like, it did disappoint me a little.

I can understand what you're saying somewhat, but shouldn't you be happy when you see someone happy? I guess because half my family have bi-polar/depression, I never want to see someone else in that boat. Not a good way to go through life.

[Zook]

I grew up with the band Korn. In junior high, I got their Deuce DVD, which is basically a compilation of footage of the band members fucking around. I remember being shocked at how happy and goofy they were. After a few years of listening to their incredibly dark lyrics and music, seeing them cracking jokes and laughing for 2 hours really weirded me out. Their personalities did not match the music they played, and that bothered me. It made Korn seem...I dunno. Insincere. I was expecting them to be mopey, depressed goth guys. When that turned out to be the opposite of what they were really like, it did disappoint me a little.

Would you have been entertained if the DVD consisted of 2 hours of them moping around?

My pick is Jon Schaffer. The guy is completely off his rocker, but I still support him. I have what Wolfking has with Queensryche, although Iced Earth isn't nearly as bad. Not even close.

[Gadough]

I grew up with the band Korn. In junior high, I got their Deuce DVD, which is basically a compilation of footage of the band members fucking around. I remember being shocked at how happy and goofy they were. After a few years of listening to their incredibly dark lyrics and music, seeing them cracking jokes and laughing for 2 hours really weirded me out. Their personalities did not match the music they played, and that bothered me. It made Korn seem...I dunno. Insincere. I was expecting them to be mopey, depressed goth guys. When that turned out to be the opposite of what they were really like, it did disappoint me a little.

I can understand what you're saying somewhat, but shouldn't you be happy when you see someone happy? I guess because half my family have bi-polar/depression, I never want to see someone else in that boat. Not a good way to go through life.

I didn't really mean it that way. Keep in mind that I was 12 or 13 years old, in junior high. I was going through that phase where I thought it was cool to be dark and mysterious. When my idols turned out to not be who I thought they were, it through me for a loop and made me question if it was cool to be "psuedo-goth." I was just an immature little kid. I got a lot of enjoyment out of the DVD after the shock wore off.

[The Dark Master]

I grew up with the band Korn. In junior high, I got their Deuce DVD, which is basically a compilation of footage of the band members fucking around. I remember being shocked at how happy and goofy they were. After a few years of listening to their incredibly dark lyrics and music, seeing them cracking jokes and laughing for 2 hours really weirded me out. Their personalities did not match the music they played, and that bothered me. It made Korn seem...I dunno. Insincere. I was expecting them to be mopey, depressed goth guys. When that turned out to be the opposite of what they were really like, it did disappoint me a little.

Funny thing is, this has happened with a number of rock stars over the decades.  Back in the mid seventies, kids were shocked the first time they saw Alice Copper on tv acting and dressed like a normal dude, not the monster he portrayed on stage.  I guess that's just your perceptions as a kid; you really want to believe that your idols are these Gods on some Olympus of Rock, and not just normal, everyday people trying to pay the bills in their own way, a way which happens to be highly entertaining.  I guess most just grow out of it eventually and accept rock stars as normal people (except for those religious crazies that really do believe Ozzy Osbourne and Dio are agents of Satan).

As for the topic of this thread, there are a lot of artists I thoroughly enjoy who's perspective on life I completely disagree with, but as for people who's personalities I find really irritating, even if I do enjoy their music...............  the top spot easily goes to Geoff Tate.  Between his public comments, his blatant attempts to re-write his own history, and the way he has run his band into the ground over the past decade and a half, I find the man intolerable.  Alexi Laiho comes in as a really close second, though.  His inability to just keep his mouth shut about other bands really pisses me off.  Zack Wilde is pretty bad, too.  Great Guitarist, but a shitty attitude.  Andrew Eldritch is up there as well; it's mostly the fault of his ego that Sisters of Mercy can't maintain a stable lineup.  Oh, and of course, Lars Ulrich.

Conversely, I can think of a number of artists who have a reputation for being total d-bags, but who based off interviews and other media, really don't seem all that bad in comparison to some of the people I just mentioned.  Yngwie Malmsteen and Blackie Lawless in particular seem to have had their reputations blown waaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of propotion.  I really don't think Mike Portnoy is all that bad, either; not by a long shot.  He doesn't seem like that bad of a person, he just needs to 1) learn when not to say anything, and 2) be a bit less of an OCD control-freak.

[Zydar]

I'm a Kiss fan but can't stand Gene Simmons and his opinions. It doesn't take away from the music.

[The Dark Master]

I'm a Kiss fan but can't stand Gene Simmons and his opinions. It doesn't take away from the music.

Yeah, Gene can be pretty bad.  I dunno though, he doesn't really bother me as much as some of these other guys..........

[Ravenheart]

 Andrew Eldritch is up there as well; it's mostly the fault of his ego that Sisters of Mercy can't maintain a stable lineup.

Yeah. As much as I love Eldritch, his attitude always sucked.

[Perpetual Change]

The Portnoy pick is also interesting. He's a little self-congratulating, and has a tendency to be hyperbolic. It never bothered me when he was in DT, but when I see things like in the A7X interview that came out a couple months ago where he says (sic) "I spent every single hour of my life for the fans" in a response to a question about how he's taking the fans being less positive towards him, it's hard for me to take his side. Kinda like it's hard to feel sorry for someone when they keep telling you that you should. But I'm hoping this is all just a phase he's going through in his transition from being in DT to doing new things because, on the flipside, he's an awesome showman and the better parts of his personality really shine when you see him playing up close, smiling and interacting with fans.

I generally agree with this.  I think the problem is that he worries too much about the fans, what they want, and their reactions.  He is clearly bothered when he feels he isn't given enough attention for everything he does, which is why he is constantly reminding everyone of all of the little things he does.  That is textbook Psychology 101.  Or in the case of the recent DT drama, he obviously wants everyone to believe his side of the story and to think that DT isn't as good without him.  So, really, it is a double-edged sword with him, as he wouldn't be who he is without doing all of the stuff he does, but the fact that he takes everything so personally is also part of it.  His personality dictates that you cannot have one without the other. 

Yeah, totally. It's kinda like when you're growing up and your dad disciplines you for something by saying"I've been working my ass off, and it's all been for you!" It may or may not be true, but either way, it certainly doesn't help your dad get through whatever it is he was trying to get through to you. It just makes the situation more dramatic.

But, regardless, as I think about it I still wouldn't file Mike into the "can't stand 'em" category. My patience with him around this DT stuff is growing a bit thin, but he's still alright in my book.

[MasterShakezula]

I wouldn't put Mike in the douche category at all.  I'd say he's just a case of a rather immature and possibly emotionally unstable, but well meaning guy who really could use a bit more thought before taking action on his convictions.

[The Dark Master]

The Portnoy pick is also interesting. He's a little self-congratulating, and has a tendency to be hyperbolic. It never bothered me when he was in DT, but when I see things like in the A7X interview that came out a couple months ago where he says (sic) "I spent every single hour of my life for the fans" in a response to a question about how he's taking the fans being less positive towards him, it's hard for me to take his side. Kinda like it's hard to feel sorry for someone when they keep telling you that you should. But I'm hoping this is all just a phase he's going through in his transition from being in DT to doing new things because, on the flipside, he's an awesome showman and the better parts of his personality really shine when you see him playing up close, smiling and interacting with fans.

I generally agree with this.  I think the problem is that he worries too much about the fans, what they want, and their reactions.  He is clearly bothered when he feels he isn't given enough attention for everything he does, which is why he is constantly reminding everyone of all of the little things he does.  That is textbook Psychology 101.  Or in the case of the recent DT drama, he obviously wants everyone to believe his side of the story and to think that DT isn't as good without him.  So, really, it is a double-edged sword with him, as he wouldn't be who he is without doing all of the stuff he does, but the fact that he takes everything so personally is also part of it.  His personality dictates that you cannot have one without the other.  

You know, throughout all the online drama that happened during the fallout of Mike leaving DT, I never viewed him as seeking attention.  If that was all he wanted, then he would have been happy with seeing his tweets and forum posts plastered all over Blabbermouth and other rock websites.  The issue with Mike is that he is constantly seeking validation for his actions; he wants to know that everyone agrees with him on the choices he made.  He genuinely believed that he was in the right trying to get Dream Theater to take an indefinite hiatus just because he was "burnt out on DT", despite the fact that the careers of four other people were on the line, and neither his bandmates or the majority of the fans wanted a break of 5+ years.  I think when he got rebuked twice so badly (first by the band when the choose to continue on without him, then by the fans when many of them openly disagreed with his idea of a protracted hiatus and the whole way he handled the situation), it came a quite a shock to him.  I think that betrays a very fragile ego if he really needs all the fans to agree with him about everything he does in order for him to feel confident in his chosen course of action, and the fact that he attempted to rejoin DT only a few months after he left simply proves it.

All things considered, though, that's really not that bad of a personality flaw.  A lot of the musicians mentioned here are way worse..........

[The Dark Master]

 Andrew Eldritch is up there as well; it's mostly the fault of his ego that Sisters of Mercy can't maintain a stable lineup.

Yeah. As much as I love Eldritch, his attitude always sucked.

His whole dismissal of the goth scene really irritated me, too.  I can understand why he doesn't want that tag applied to the band (because he wants to keep their artistic options open), but for him to deny that SoM had anything to do with the whole goth explosion in the late 80's/early 90's when many of those bands were so very, very obviously influenced by him and the Sisters always struck me as insufferably arrogant.

[Perpetual Change]

I wouldn't put Mike in the douche category at all.  I'd say he's just a case of a rather immature and possibly emotionally unstable, but well meaning guy who really could use a bit more thought before taking action on his convictions.

There's a huge area between douchey and merely disappointing. As far as Mike's emotions go, I have no idea. But I think people have to remember that he's a recovered alcohol/drug addict. People who make it through the other side of life-threatening addictions are really strong for doing so, but getting through all that without bringing a couple of psychological hang-ups along the way is almost impossible.

All things considered, though, that's really not that bad of a personality flaw.  A lot of the musicians mentioned here are way worse..........

Yeah, all things considered, Portnoy's done good and bad by his fans. But, compared to the caliber of immature rockstars we're mentioning elsewhere in this thread, he's really a pretty small fish. I hope this thread won't turn into another massive DTF arm-chair pyscho-analysis of him.  

[The Dark Master]

I hope this thread won't turn into another massive DTF arm-chair pyscho-analysis of him.  

Then I propose we turn it into a massive DTF arm-chair pyscho-analysis of someone else.  Since he has been mentioned so much already here, and since I found his latest album to be near-unlistenable, I nominate Geoff Tate!

[Ravenheart]

 Andrew Eldritch is up there as well; it's mostly the fault of his ego that Sisters of Mercy can't maintain a stable lineup.

Yeah. As much as I love Eldritch, his attitude always sucked.

His whole dismissal of the goth scene really irritated me, too.  I can understand why he doesn't want that tag applied to the band (because he wants to keep their artistic options open), but for him to deny that SoM had anything to do with the whole goth explosion in the late 80's/early 90's when many of those bands were so very, very obviously influenced by him and the Sisters always struck me as insufferably arrogant.

I've always been baffled by that, especially since Patricia was chosen not only because she was musically talented but because she also fit the bill of goth girl. Their music is the epitome of goth, whether Eldritch likes it or not. Is it really such a bad thing? I'm a huge fan of goth music and find a good portion of it to be some of the best music ever created.

Robert Smith never liked that The Cure were labeled goth, either. While they definitely had their fare share of more poppy moments, for all intensive purposes, they were goth as well. I don't consider Robert arrogant, though.

[SystematicThought]

I'm a Kiss fan but can't stand Gene Simmons and his opinions. It doesn't take away from the music.

I've been watching that reality TV show with him 'Gene Simmon's Family Jewels' He can be so insincere sometimes with his girlfriend and can't see her point of view. I admire his patriotism and his respect for other cultures as well, but his inability to step into someone else's shoes to see how they react to things can kind of be annoying

[Perpetual Change]

That show is pretty funny. I watched a couple of episodes, and I'm not entirely convinced that the entire thing isn't completely contrived. Gene sure knows how to sell a product, that's for certain!

[The Dark Master]

I've always been baffled by that, especially since Patricia was chosen not only because she was musically talented but because she also fit the bill of goth girl. Their music is the epitome of goth, whether Eldritch likes it or not. Is it really such a bad thing? I'm a huge fan of goth music and find a good portion of it to be some of the best music ever created.

Robert Smith never liked that The Cure were labeled goth, either. While they definitely had their fare share of more poppy moments, for all intensive purposes, they were goth as well. I don't consider Robert arrogant, though.

Yeah, he really shot himself in the foot by making the Sisters of Mercy out to be the original goth band back on First And Last And Always and Floodland, and then later going out of his way to rip on the goth scene at every turn.  Anyone who listens to goth music knows that many bands of that genre don't actually consider themselves to be goth per se, but Eldritch took that attitude to a ridiculous extreme and really alienated a lot of his potential fanbase in the process.

[SystematicThought]

That show is pretty funny. I watched a couple of episodes, and I'm not entirely convinced that the entire thing isn't completely contrived. Gene sure knows how to sell a product, that's for certain!

Really smart businessman. I do think some of it set up though, yes.

[Ravenheart]

I've always been baffled by that, especially since Patricia was chosen not only because she was musically talented but because she also fit the bill of goth girl. Their music is the epitome of goth, whether Eldritch likes it or not. Is it really such a bad thing? I'm a huge fan of goth music and find a good portion of it to be some of the best music ever created.

Robert Smith never liked that The Cure were labeled goth, either. While they definitely had their fare share of more poppy moments, for all intensive purposes, they were goth as well. I don't consider Robert arrogant, though.

Yeah, he really shot himself in the foot by making the Sisters of Mercy out to be the original goth band back on First And Last And Always and Floodland, and then later going out of his way to rip on the goth scene at every turn.  Anyone who listens to goth music knows that many bands of that genre don't actually consider themselves to be goth per se, but Eldritch took that attitude to a ridiculous extreme and really alienated a lot of his potential fanbase in the process.

The funny part, to me at least, is that he also totally fit the bill of goth with the way he dressed. I mean, seriously, it's pretty unmistakable. 

[MasterShakezula]

I hope this thread won't turn into another massive DTF arm-chair pyscho-analysis of him.  

Then I propose we turn it into a massive DTF arm-chair pyscho-analysis of someone else.  Since he has been mentioned so much already here, and since I found his latest album to be near-listenable, I nominate Geoff Tate!

Well, for starters, he's incredibly self- centered and believes himself to be infallible because of a massive ego.

His insistence of recording modern pop, in attempt to connect with youth culture may be implying a Peter Pan Complex.

Finally, his joy in having his wife and daughter take part in Vaudeville-like-shows could be an indication of him having a mild exhibitionist/pomp-like mindset.  (Which could explain every decision he's made, regarding QR since 1999 or so)

[The Dark Master]

The funny part, to me at least, is that he also totally fit the bill of goth with the way he dressed. I mean, seriously, it's pretty unmistakable.  

Well, in all fairness to him, he really kind of helped define the whole "goth" look before it was actually a fully developed sub-culture and fashion statement in it's own right (and it's actually still pretty ill-defined as it is! ).  But yeah, looking at the videos for "Lucretia" or "This Corrosion" today, and it's like having 80's goth fashion bite you in the face!  

Amazing videos, though, and the 80's goth look rocks regardless!

[Ravenheart]

The funny part, to me at least, is that he also totally fit the bill of goth with the way he dressed. I mean, seriously, it's pretty unmistakable.  

Well, in all fairness to him, he really kind of helped define the whole "goth" look before it was actually a fully developed sub-culture and fashion statement in it's own right (and it's actually still pretty ill-defined as it is! ).  But yeah, looking at the videos for "Lucretia" or "This Corrosion" today, and it's like having 80's goth fashion bite you in the face!  

Amazing videos, though, and the 80's goth look rocks regardless!

Indeed. The 80s are my favorite goth period.