Yes Live

[Perpetual Change]

I wouldn't be surprised. Someone in facebook was saying that one time someone he knows saw Jon Anderson in a guitar store, and Jon Anderson came up, scribbled something that was supposed to be his name an a really expensive acoustic guitar that was for sale, and then tried to walk away without buying it. This was apparently when he was helping with a kids music camp or something. Thought it was a funny story.

But yeah, I think Jon's genuinely lost it. The interview Nick did awhile ago kinda confirmed what I'd thought all along.

[El Barto]

Oh, I believe that he's genuinely baffled as to why they didn't call him.  He really is that clueless.

He wanted a break after Magnification, so they took a break.  They called him in 2004, he agreed to meet with them, then blew them off.  They called him again a few years later, but he said he was too sick to work on a new album (though not too sick to go out and tour with one of his side projects).  Then he really did get sick, but said he still wanted to work on a new Yes album.  When they called him for the sessions which ultimately led to this new album and tour, he wasn't interested.  He was working on the Anderson/Wakeman album, but once that was done, and the tour, he was going to call them.  They'd heard that before.  He sold his share of the rights to the name Yes somewhere in there, declaring that Yes was done, finished, even though it wasn't his decision to make.

So after nearly 10 years of getting jerked around, Howe, Squire, and White (who own the name) got someone else to sing.  And Anderson is baffled as to why they would do this.

That's interesting since my understanding is that Steve Howe is still kind of an asshole about all the 80's drama. 

[Quadrochosis]

80's drama. 

[Orbert]

Steve has chilled quite a bit about the 80's situation, but IMO he has a lot more reason to be less-than-happy about it, and I'm not sure what "being an asshole" about it would really entail.  He badmouthed the band, but has since publicly apologized to Rabin and the others for his comments.  He plays "Owner of a Lonely Heart" every night because it was the band's only #1 hit, even though he really can't stand the song.  Compare this to Jon Anderson, who outright refuses to perform any Drama songs, because as far as he's concerned, those are not Yes songs because he wasn't on that album.

Yes had officially broken up after Drama.  South African guitarist Trevor Rabin meanwhile was putting a band together with Chris Squire and Alan White (currently without a gig) which was going to be called Cinema.  For keyboards, they got Tony Kaye, who was the original Yes keyboard player, even though it had been over 10 years, and Squire called Jon Anderson to help write some songs.  Now 4/5 former Yesmen, the suits pressured Rabin into calling the band Yes for marketing reasons.  Rabin caved and agreed to call the band Yes because he wanted to break into the U.S. market, but he has since expressed regret that he didn't stick to his guns.  He knew he'd be accused of changing the sound of Yes, and catch shit for daring to replace Steve Howe on guitar, and that's exactly what happened.

Meanwhile, Steve Howe is out there working on solo stuff, and hears about the new Yes and wonders how that happened and he never heard anything about it.  Last he knew, he was the guitarist for Yes, and had been since The Yes Album, but a new Yes had formed somehow, without him, based around this unknown guitarist.  Yeah, I'd be pissed, too.  If I had to guess, I'd say that was a big factor in him wanting to buy a piece of the Yes brand name, to make sure that never happened again.

[Quadrochosis]

Joe, I hope you are reading this history that Orbert piece meals for us bit by bit in this thread. They make great insight for the band and are the foundation for what I was saying to you in FB Chat yesterday.

[Perpetual Change]

Joe, I hope you are reading this history that Orbert piece meals for us bit by bit in this thread. They make great insight for the band and are the foundation for what I was saying to you in FB Chat yesterday.

Oh, I am, but that still doesn't change my opinion on BD or this new album

[Orbert]

All of this history is covered in the main Yes thread, which is why I didn't really want to include it all again here.  I thought the idea was to keep this thread about the current tour only.  But the main Yes thread is pretty long, and I guess it makes more sense for me to repeat it than for people to not know.

[Perpetual Change]

Well you are duly thanked. I actually had tried to go through the thread but it was winding up being too long and time consuming. Would love to do a similar search over at Yesfans and see what they have to say all about this.

[Orbert]

Actually most of what I know is from what I've gathered at Yesfans.com.  I've been there about as long as I have at DTF (and its precursors), which is like 2004 or so.  I'm one of those with a morbid curiosity regarding the inner workings of the bands, so I tend to read a lot about them.

Everybody has a slightly different take on things, but commonalities arise, and when those fit with actual quotes from the band members, I figure that's as close to the truth as we're gonna get.

[KevShmev]

Saw the Styx/Yes bill tonight.

Yes was first.  They played (I think):

Tempus Fugit
Yours Is No Disgrace
Heart of the Sunrise
We Can Fly
And You and I
Owner of a Lonely Heart
I've Seen All Good People
Starship Trooper

Roundabout (encore)

Then Styx came out second and played:

Blue Collar Man
The Grand Illusion
One with Everything (I was ecstatic when this was played)
Too Much Time on My Hands
Lady
Lorelei
Man in the Wilderness (surprise of the night, and a great one at that!)
Crystal Ball
Suite Madame Blue
Fooling Yourself
Miss America
Come Sail Away

Renegade (encore)

Overall, Styx was better.  They had the advantage of coming on second (which meant they played their whole set when it was dark out), but they had more energy, played to the crowd more, and simply kicked more ass.  But Yes was still good. 

As for Benoit David, his on-stage movements with the hand wavings and whatnot are rather embarrassing (I get that he is trying to emulate Jon Anderson, but he looks corny as hell when doing it), but vocally he did a pretty good job.  No, he isn't Jon Anderson, but they could have done a lot worse.  And he has big shoes to fill, so it is hard to knock the guy too much, considering he was previously in a Yes tribute band.  So, when Yes, whom you are obviously a big fan of, invites you to join the group, you aren't exactly gonna say no.

Dennis DeYoung's replacement was much more ridiculous with his on-stage persona, but despite that, Styx kicked ass.  Man in the Wilderness was a huge surprise, and the classics always sound good.  Suite Madame Blue is always a highlight to hear.

Lastly, I think it is blatantly obvious that Chris Squire is eating all of Steve Howe's food.

[Orbert]

Good review, and pretty much what I would expect.  I'd heard that Benoit David is a bit embarassing with how he tries to be Jon onstage, but somehow never put it together with the fact that he used to be in a Yes tribute band.  As such, he was expected to act that way, and it became his onstage persona.  After years of doing that, how do you tell him "Dude, you're not Jon, so stop. You have to have your own onstage persona"?  I wonder if he'll ever become his own person, or forever be pseudo-Jon.

I caught part of a Styx concert on TV last night, and yeah, Lawrence Gowan is pretty ridiculous.  Everyone has their idea of where the line is between showing some style and showing off, but I'm pretty sure he crossed it.  Spinning the keyboard stand around and playing the keys backwards?  Waving your other hand around and making "awesome" faces to the crowd the whole time?  Um... okay.

But yeah, Styx puts on a high-energy show.  Yes has always been more of the "sit back and enjoy the music" style, whereas Styx wants you on your feet and rocking out.  I like both bands a lot, but other than the fact that they're from the same era, it's a weird double bill.

[Durg]

Good review, and pretty much what I would expect.  I'd heard that Benoit David is a bit embarassing with how he tries to be Jon onstage, but somehow never put it together with the fact that he used to be in a Yes tribute band.  As such, he was expected to act that way, and it became his onstage persona.  After years of doing that, how do you tell him "Dude, you're not Jon, so stop. You have to have your own onstage persona"?  I wonder if he'll ever become his own person, or forever be pseudo-Jon.

I caught part of a Styx concert on TV last night, and yeah, Lawrence Gowan is pretty ridiculous.  Everyone has their idea of where the line is between showing some style and showing off, but I'm pretty sure he crossed it.  Spinning the keyboard stand around and playing the keys backwards?  Waving your other hand around and making "awesome" faces to the crowd the whole time?  Um... okay.

But yeah, Styx puts on a high-energy show.  Yes has always been more of the "sit back and enjoy the music" style, whereas Styx wants you on your feet and rocking out.  I like both bands a lot, but other than the fact that they're from the same era, it's a weird double bill.

I was watching them last night on TV as well.  The 2006 concert with the Contemporary Youth Orchestra and Choir.  That would have been so fun for those kids.  But man they know how to put on a show.  Keyboard player was pretty much over the top but I didn't mind it so much.

[Orbert]

Yep, that's what I was watching.  Cool that they had the orchestra and choir, but from what I saw, they only played on like half the songs.  The rest of the time, they were dancing or miming or whatever, which was kinda silly.  ("paddling" to "Boat on the River"?  Really?)  If you're gonna put together a gig with an orchestra and choir, score the whole gig.  Or do what DT did and only have them there for the part of the gig that included them.

[KevShmev]

The funny thing about Gowan's backwards playing is that every time he did it, he was barely playing anything.  If you are gonna do that kind of showmanship, at least play something worth while, instead of turning around and holding a note down for 10 seconds, which almost any player with any experience could do backwards.

But to give him some props, he did get the crowd going a bit with his pre-Come Sail Away crowd banter.  He got the crowd to echo a few classic rock song parts he would sing.  He tried to get everyone to finish the "21st Century _____ ____ line," but few did, and he was like, "Aw, where are all of the proggers at?"   He then did the whole first verse of Floyd's Another Brick II.  After that, this younger couple in front of us got up and left.  The guy looked at us, shook his head and said, "That was embarrassing to Floyd.  We're outta here."   But in all fairness, that couple was way more into Yes than Styx, so they probably would have left early either way.  Still a funny moment for us, though.

[El Barto]

The funny thing about Gowan's backwards playing is that every time he did it, he was barely playing anything.  If you are gonna do that kind of showmanship, at least play something worth while, instead of turning around and holding a note down for 10 seconds, which almost any player with any experience could do backwards.

Like Any Colour You Like.

[Orbert]

The funny thing about Gowan's backwards playing is that every time he did it, he was barely playing anything.  If you are gonna do that kind of showmanship, at least play something worth while, instead of turning around and holding a note down for 10 seconds, which almost any player with any experience could do backwards.

That's a shame.  On the 2006 concert that Durg and I were talking about, he did it for the solo in "Fooling Yourself".  It's not exactly hard to play, but he was actually doing something worthwhile IMO.

[ytserush]

I've seen that Styx concert on VH1 Classic with the orchestra. I thought it was a great performance.


Back on topic (sort of).


Orbert, have you ever gone into why Patrick Moraz left Yes? I recall reading somewhere about how he was forced out, but he never went into specific details about it.

I suppose we could just make an Orbert Yes thread where stuff like this could be answered, but I'm not qualified to make those decisions.

[Orbert]

Rick Wakeman left Yes after Tales from Topographic Oceans.  He thought it was overblown and half filler, and he didn't really enjoy the tour, which included playing the whole thing every night.  So he left, and Patrick Moraz joined.  He was with Yes for the Relayer sessions, album, and tour.

During the writing sessions for what would become Going for the One, Wakeman decided he wanted back in, and they told him Sure, he could join, Moraz isn't really working out.  They promptly fired Patrick Moraz, telling him it wasn't really working out.

It's been said that it can be hard to reconcile the beautiful, spiritually positive music that Yes makes with the ugly, egotistical politics, backstabbing and infighting that take place behind the music, but that's basically it.  Patrick Moraz and Derek Shirinian have something in common.  They both got the gig, played one album, then were unceremoniously dumped when the one the band "really wanted" became available.  Also, both went on to rather successful solo careers as a result of the exposure and experience gained.

[The Letter M]

Rick Wakeman left Yes after Tales from Topographic Oceans.  He thought it was overblown and half filler, and he didn't really enjoy the tour, which included playing the whole thing every night.  So he left, and Patrick Moraz joined.  He was with Yes for the Relayer sessions, album, and tour.

During the writing sessions for what would become Going for the One, Wakeman decided he wanted back in, and they told him Sure, he could join, Moraz isn't really working out.  They promptly fired Patrick Moraz, telling him it wasn't really working out.

It's been said that it can be hard to reconcile the beautiful, spiritually positive music that Yes makes with the ugly, egotistical politics, backstabbing and infighting that take place behind the music, but that's basically it.  Patrick Moraz and Derek Shirinian have something in common.  They both got the gig, played one album, then were unceremoniously dumped when the one the band "really wanted" became available.  Also, both went on to rather successful solo careers as a result of the exposure and experience gained.

Ironic, but true, about DS and PM. I haven't really ventured into any Moraz solo material, though, but I hear good things about it. It's hard enough taking a venture into bands related to Yes, let alone all the solo material that is out there, and between Anderson, Howe and Wakeman alone, there sure is a LOT of solo material to listen to.

BTW, great post Orbert. Your Yes History Lessons are impeccable! I've been on a huge Yes-kick lately, so I've been listening to a lot of their albums, and currently I've got Songs From Tsongas playing on my iPod (audio ripped from the DVD! It makes a GREAT 3-CD set!).

-Marc.

[Orbert]

Thanks.  As you might guess from my signature, Yes is my favorite band, and I've done a fair bit of reading about them.

[ytserush]

Rick Wakeman left Yes after Tales from Topographic Oceans.  He thought it was overblown and half filler, and he didn't really enjoy the tour, which included playing the whole thing every night.  So he left, and Patrick Moraz joined.  He was with Yes for the Relayer sessions, album, and tour.

During the writing sessions for what would become Going for the One, Wakeman decided he wanted back in, and they told him Sure, he could join, Moraz isn't really working out.  They promptly fired Patrick Moraz, telling him it wasn't really working out.

It's been said that it can be hard to reconcile the beautiful, spiritually positive music that Yes makes with the ugly, egotistical politics, backstabbing and infighting that take place behind the music, but that's basically it.  Patrick Moraz and Derek Shirinian have something in common.  They both got the gig, played one album, then were unceremoniously dumped when the one the band "really wanted" became available.  Also, both went on to rather successful solo careers as a result of the exposure and experience gained.

I recently went back and read that part (1975-77) of Close To The Edge and was reminded that Wakeman said he found out he was in the band by reading Melody Maker about four days before Squire actually asked him to rejoin the band!

[Orbert]

I wouldn't be surprised.  As I've said, everyone's stories are different, so the best we can do is assume that where they agree most of the time, it's probably true, and the closet thing to the truth that we're gonna get.

It does seem odd that Wakeman says he "found out" about being back in Yes via Melody Maker.  I wonder if MM got it wrong or were running a rumour, and then Squire decided he might as well ask Wakeman.  Moraz has been pretty blunt about how he was treated by Yes, and the other members of Yes tend to be pretty quiet about it, or dance around the subject.  I've never read Close to the Edge (the book) and probably should one of these days.  What else does it say about the Moraz departure and Wakeman return?

[The Letter M]

Speaking of live Yes, I'm looking for a website that had listed all their tours and setlists for many of their shows up to their recent tours. I tried googling it but I couldn't find it at all. Anyone know what I'm looking for and can provide a link please?

-Marc.

[ytserush]

I wouldn't be surprised.  As I've said, everyone's stories are different, so the best we can do is assume that where they agree most of the time, it's probably true, and the closet thing to the truth that we're gonna get.

It does seem odd that Wakeman says he "found out" about being back in Yes via Melody Maker.  I wonder if MM got it wrong or were running a rumour, and then Squire decided he might as well ask Wakeman.  Moraz has been pretty blunt about how he was treated by Yes, and the other members of Yes tend to be pretty quiet about it, or dance around the subject.  I've never read Close to the Edge (the book) and probably should one of these days.  What else does it say about the Moraz departure and Wakeman return?

I nicked this my my post on Portnoy's board: https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/m2691686.aspx

According to different accounts from Close To The Edge:
 
Wakeman was losing money seriously bleeding money from his high overhead solo tour and needed to get back in the band to move into the black.
 
Moraz allegedly was not working out as far jelling with the new material that was being written.
 
Wakeman said there was an article about him rejoining the band in Melody Maker four days before Squire actually asked him to rejoin.

The one thing I hadn't mentioned (and you probably know anyway) was that Rick was hired as a session musician at first and decided to stay because the band were working on "songs."

There was a little more than that , but that's the distilled version. Steve Howe was "surprised" because someone had rejoined instead of  left.

The sense I got from all that comments was that there was a lot of dancing around the subject and it's really hard to pinpoint exactly what went on.

That's really the only Yes book I've read that was what you might call an authoritative work.

[Orbert]

Steve Howe was "surprised" because someone had rejoined instead of  left.

 

Actually, that's understandable.  Banks left after the second album, Kaye left after the third album, Bruford left after the fifth album, and Wakeman left after the sixth album.  For someone to actually come back to Yes was indeed something new.

I've read magazine articles and online things over the years, but the only book I've read is Yesstories: Yes in Their Own Words because it is literally a collection of quotes from band members (from interviews, articles, etc.), every one of them cited, with just a little text from the author/editor to hold things together.  I never know what books can be taken as authorized and which cannot, but I figured I couldn't do better than their own words.

[JediKnight1969]

Geoff Downes is playing with them now instead of Oliver Wakeman, Zed, so they might be better.

I considered seeing them in Atlanta this summer but decided against it.

Oliver is very good! Did you listen to his albums with Clive Nolan? Great stuff!

[MetropolisxPt1]

I refuse to go see yes if JA is not in the band.

[Quadrochosis]

That's like refusing to see DT without MP.

Makes no sense to me.