The Educators Thread

[splent]

How long after a second interview (where I was one of two people) do people call you back?  It's been a month since the interview, three weeks since I've called the principal where she said I had a good chance of getting it.  I'm calling tomorrow morning.  I know July is a fickle month for administration, with vacations, summer school, etc.  But this is ridiculous.  I know my wife got called back about 3 1/2 weeks after interviewing.  What is the longest period of time you've had between interview and job offer?  Please let me know to ease my anxiety.  I can only imagine they would have called me either way by now.  And it would be common courtesy for them to call me either way since I've had two interviews.

I have another interview on Thursday but it's for a high school where test scores are LOW LOW LOW and it's part of a restructuring program.... I mean a job is a job, but I know that music is not the priority there.  Iffy iffy.  Although, anything is better than where I am right now.

On another note I just saw that stupid Frosted Mini Wheats "HAPPY SCHOOL YEAR" commercial again... makes me want to cry because I still as of right now am going back to that awful job...

[Jamesman42]

FUCKING OWNED MY CAPSTONE TODAY!!!

And now have a Master's Degree.

Now I just need a job!

[Dr. DTVT]

How long after a second interview (where I was one of two people) do people call you back?  It's been a month since the interview, three weeks since I've called the principal where she said I had a good chance of getting it.  I'm calling tomorrow morning.  I know July is a fickle month for administration, with vacations, summer school, etc.  But this is ridiculous.  I know my wife got called back about 3 1/2 weeks after interviewing.  What is the longest period of time you've had between interview and job offer?  Please let me know to ease my anxiety.  I can only imagine they would have called me either way by now.  And it would be common courtesy for them to call me either way since I've had two interviews.

I have another interview on Thursday but it's for a high school where test scores are LOW LOW LOW and it's part of a restructuring program.... I mean a job is a job, but I know that music is not the priority there.  Iffy iffy.  Although, anything is better than where I am right now.

On another note I just saw that stupid Frosted Mini Wheats "HAPPY SCHOOL YEAR" commercial again... makes me want to cry because I still as of right now am going back to that awful job...

I know how you feel about calling back, you want to walk the line between showing interest and not becoming annoying.  Maybe try calling next Monday.  They probably know you are still at another school, so if you give them the reason "you want to give them time to find someone else" you'll be showing a very professional and courtious manner toward your job and they should appriciate that.

As for the other job, look at it as a blank slate.  You won't be bound to the old cirriculum, if you get things turned around you will open doorsa for getting more state aid for more instruments/equipment, or your dream job.

I wish I would have you as a music teacher...then again I'm pretty sure I'm older than you.

[contest_sanity]

For anyone interested in this kind of thing, here is a portion of my Capstone Exhibition I gave to complete my Master's.  It's basically about expanding the idea of "literature" to include things such as music, films, T.V., etc. 

Shut It Shakespeare: Weezy In Da House

[Jamesman42]

Most people in my area that went for middle/high school math education got offered some sort of job before they were done student teaching. I've been told that the odds of this happening to me are good as well. So I guess I just gotta make all the right impressions. Hell, even if I just get a full time subbing job, I'll be content.

[zepp-head]

I just finished my Plan B (instead of a thesis) defense a couple weeks ago, and my Master's will be in the mail soon.

I spent the last two years teaching two advanced audio labs, grading, the whole shebang.  I'm an audio engineer/producer, but I would consider teaching again in the future. 

I manage to have less respect for academia every day.  Right now I'm convinced it only prepares people to be teachers.  I've applied around 50 places so far, a few replies, no interviews.  I was voted as the hardest worker in my whole program, but now I've likely got an MA that I'm going to have to lie about and say I don't have just to work at a store somewhere.  It's rather depressing.

[Dr. DTVT]

I manage to have less respect for academia every day.  Right now I'm convinced it only prepares people to be teachers. 

Maybe in your field, but most people who get advanced degrees in the physical sciences don't enter academia.

If you get an advanced degree in literature though, your only real options are academia or Barnes & Noble.

[Jamesman42]

Oh man. In a few weeks I'm gonna be student teaching. It's starting to hit me as I mark down things on my calendar and start getting ready in various ways. Only thing I have left to do, technically, is buy proper clothes, resolve the last details of my financial aid, and get a teacher pass. Also gotta call my cooperating teacher.

Also, I'll have free time in most of the days of the next 2 weeks to clean up and fill in a lot of my portfolio due in November. It shouldn't be too hard...just uploading some files, explaining what they are and why they represent things in my professional development. I also have to come up with an education of philosophy, so that'll take some time and thought. Any advice concerning writing that up? I know what I believe, but I'm sure there is advice to be had on that area.

[splent]

News.

Bad - I did NOT get the high school job, this is the 2nd or 3rd time where I've been shafted for someone else (basically 2nd place)... I was depressed for like a week.

OK - My old job opened up again... the one that I lost due to budget cuts, but is being reinstated now.

Best - My psycho principal is gone, which makes me feel a little better about coming back to my job this year (if I don't get another job first). 

[Jamesman42]

It's great that you at least have the chance to go back to your old job with less of a monkey on your back.

[sirbradford117]

GAH!!!  3 weeks from tomorrow, I start teaching K-8 general music in a private school.  It is attached to a church where I am also the Director of Liturgy and Music.  So much to do still, yet so little really.  My fiancee (a 5-year teacher) taught me how to write lesson plans the other day.  It's nowhere near as intimidating as I thought.  Awesome how EVERYTHING you need to run a 40-minute class period is there in the plan... makes it a breeze (hopefully enough).

[Jarlaxle]

I had entered University last year to become a teacher, teaching grades 10-12 maths. But a month into uni I was placed in a grade 4 class and it was so out of my element...I'm not going back this year.

[Jamesman42]

Sometimes they don't have enough available, certified teachers for the level you wanna teach. You're in it for the degree, no matter what it takes. I know elementary school is such a different beast, but once you get that degree, you're set. Especially that degree, that's probably the best degree to get as far as K-12 education goes.

[Jarlaxle]

But for my first internship they didn't even try to put me into the level that I aspired for and am comfortable with. It ruined my whole experience. Not that I don't like kids, but teaching them just isn't my bag of tricks. The teacher I was put with was also extremely off-putting and rude about everything cause he could tell how uncomfortable I was in that situation, and he did nothing to aide me.

[Jamesman42]

Don't let one experience drag you down though. Everything about that isolated incident was wrong, yes, but dude, it's worth it once you're placed.

Also, how many internships do you do, and what sort? Throughout my program, I am supposed to do 2 "practicums," which are 20 hours per semester of observation that include 3 taught and graded lessons that I teach. Then is my student teaching which is 12 weeks of full time teaching.

[Jarlaxle]

Well I started uni in September of last year and was placed in a school in October for a full day every week until Christmas. I'm pretty sure if I was to return it is the same thing for the second year, then the whole first semester of the third year is internship.

[YtseJam]

Education is all about connecting and delivery. For the student, it's the experience not necessarily content. Anyone can deliver content, to be a teacher is to be a leader and to inspire. In the first year every teacher needs to learn the ropes but by your second year your job is to motivate, inspire and then teach whatever the content is. Your experience in teaching should be the interaction and connection in your delivery.

[Dr. DTVT]

But for my first internship they didn't even try to put me into the level that I aspired for and am comfortable with.

Giving you something you weren't expecting/prepared to handle was a test of your ability to adapt.  Not everything can be planned out and tightly regimented, and putting you in position you weren't expecting was a test of your ability to adapt as well as a learning experience.

[contest_sanity]

Had an interview yesterday that went pretty well. I felt reasonably comfortable and not too intimidated. They said I was the first of 15-20 interviews, however, so it sounds like stiff competition. I think they liked what I had to say and also enjoyed some of my technology pieces (like my Transcendentalism WebQuest).

However, the position is VERY strange. It would be 2 periods of repeating 2nd semester 9th (kids who failed 9th last year), 1 period of regular 12th Brit Lit, and then 3 periods where I was actually the inclusion/special ed teacher in another teacher's English class. Isn't that kind of bizarre? Anyway, they said that I could make plans to pass the certification test in SPED and didn't have to already be certified for it.

The department also uses a common curriculum calender and common assessments, which in some ways I really dislike, but if I were to get the job and had to start all this on the fly in October, hell, maybe pre-planned curriculum would be a welcome sight.

[Orbert]

Whoa, they're still interviewing now?  Hasn't the school year started already by now?

[Jamesman42]

^From what I hear, positions open up for random reasons (hey, like my classroom teacher's pregnancy). Things like sickness or someone quitting. That happened at my school last week, lady had a nervous breakdown in the middle of class and she quit.


I am 45% done with my student teaching today. It's flying by so fast. I can't believe I have 6 weeks to go and I am done. Monday through Friday, I wake up just with enough time to get ready and drive the half hour to where I am teaching. I have first period planning, so I can show up a little later though I only show up late once in a while. By the time second period happens, the day flies by. I blink and it's lunch time. And blink again and school is over for the day. I still can't believe that I am 45% done with this.

I am having a bit of hard time managing my 2 classes after lunch. They all love me and want me to stay and are cool kids, but as students and as a whole, they are just bad. I'm not mean by nature (I've been told I am too nice), but these kids are teaching me how to be tough. I had to go through the rules again with my last period class and it looks like I will have to with my 6th period class as well. I feel like I am getting better, though. Some of the kids even like it when I am tougher on them. So guess what, I'll be tougher. I HAVE to be so I do well, and I want to do well and manage the classroom.

Also, in general, I love teaching. It's great. I make rules for all kinds of things but when a student tells me that maybe it should be modified and they give me a good case, I change it. I don't want to be the dictator and everyone is subject to my demands with no say or voice in their education. Although with the aforementioned classes, I do have to be firm and tough and mean at times (but they are really below grade level).

[Orbert]

It's good that some of your classes are challenging you.  You need to find the balance between tough and sympathetic.  The students need to know that you're genuinely interested in teaching them, genuinely interested in them learning the material, but at the same time you don't take any shit.  And if it ever comes down to it, you gotta be mean rather than nice, you gotta kick the butts that need kicking if it means doing your job.

[contest_sanity]

James -- I have found, and it also is supported by research, that often when you give students a larger voice in formulating classroom rules, they actually adhere to them more because they are invested in them.  Ultimately, I think students will only really follow what they buy into, so why not ask them what's important for a well-functioning classroom?  If they come up with a set of rules or norms themselves (with your supervision), then they're obligated to themselves and not just some outside authority.

[Jamesman42]

It's good that some of your classes are challenging you.  You need to find the balance between tough and sympathetic.  The students need to know that you're genuinely interested in teaching them, genuinely interested in them learning the material, but at the same time you don't take any shit.  And if it ever comes down to it, you gotta be mean rather than nice, you gotta kick the butts that need kicking if it means doing your job.

Yes, this was my conclusion as well. I have some heavenly classes and some hellish classes. I am glad I get to sample both to see what both worlds look like.

James -- I have found, and it also is supported by research, that often when you give students a larger voice in formulating classroom rules, they actually adhere to them more because they are invested in them.  Ultimately, I think students will only really follow what they buy into, so why not ask them what's important for a well-functioning classroom?  If they come up with a set of rules or norms themselves (with your supervision), then they're obligated to themselves and not just some outside authority.

I know! The thing is, my classroom teacher said that won't be a good idea to revamp the rules. I'm wondering if taking 5 or 10 minutes to ask them how we can restructure things so that they behave better would be a good idea...like keep the rules, but change some procedures.

[73109]

James, out of curiosity, what makes your "bad" classes "bad?"

[contest_sanity]

James -- I have found, and it also is supported by research, that often when you give students a larger voice in formulating classroom rules, they actually adhere to them more because they are invested in them.  Ultimately, I think students will only really follow what they buy into, so why not ask them what's important for a well-functioning classroom?  If they come up with a set of rules or norms themselves (with your supervision), then they're obligated to themselves and not just some outside authority.

I know! The thing is, my classroom teacher said that won't be a good idea to revamp the rules. I'm wondering if taking 5 or 10 minutes to ask them how we can restructure things so that they behave better would be a good idea...like keep the rules, but change some procedures.

I had the same problem in that my supervisor would not let me give the students as much power as I wanted to give them, and sometimes you're really at your supervisor's mercy.  But yeah, even if you can't outright change things, some honest conversations with your students about what's really important to them and how it can be achieved could definitely be beneficial. 

[Jamesman42]

James, out of curiosity, what makes your "bad" classes "bad?"

Consistent, unrelenting bad behavior and a general distaste for math/school.

James -- I have found, and it also is supported by research, that often when you give students a larger voice in formulating classroom rules, they actually adhere to them more because they are invested in them.  Ultimately, I think students will only really follow what they buy into, so why not ask them what's important for a well-functioning classroom?  If they come up with a set of rules or norms themselves (with your supervision), then they're obligated to themselves and not just some outside authority.

I know! The thing is, my classroom teacher said that won't be a good idea to revamp the rules. I'm wondering if taking 5 or 10 minutes to ask them how we can restructure things so that they behave better would be a good idea...like keep the rules, but change some procedures.

I had the same problem in that my supervisor would not let me give the students as much power as I wanted to give them, and sometimes you're really at your supervisor's mercy.  But yeah, even if you can't outright change things, some honest conversations with your students about what's really important to them and how it can be achieved could definitely be beneficial. 

How could I go about doing that exactly/practically?

[73109]

Bad behavior and a hatred toward math. Welcome to 90% of high schoolers.

[Jamesman42]

Yep! But I feel like I am making them see why they need it. I will make them write down the "why" of each lesson and explain that they are learning it "to become a better analytic thinker" and stuff like that. They're very slowly coming around.

[73109]

With all due respect dude, if I needed to write down why I needed to learn the shit I was learning...in math, I'd hate the class too.

[Jamesman42]

Why? It's one sentence. And my notes are not extensive, trust me.

[contest_sanity]

re: rules

IDK James - how often do you ask for their feedback on stuff?  You could have "Feedback Friday," where you ask for their opinions on things (oral or written).

Or what you could possibly do (I did this) is let them make a student "bill of rights," that is, rights that they have in the classroom.  You could say something like, "I know we've talked a lot about my rules, but I've been teaching for a while, and I'd like to know what YOU think would make you more successful in the classroom."  The one my students made did address how the teacher treats the student but it was also useful in pointing out how students have to respect one another if all students are to have their rights.

Tough question, though; it's easier to do stuff with rules and norms at the beginning of the year, I think.

With all due respect dude, if I needed to write down why I needed to learn the shit I was learning...in math, I'd hate the class too.

Don't you think it's important that math relate to the actual lives of teenagers?  How often do we hear, "But when am I ever really gonna use this?"  James is trying to actually answer that for his students.

[73109]

It's just the superfluity of it. If the kids are going to sit there listening to you teach them shit about numbers, what's the point in making them do more? I mean, if it's one sentence, that's ok. It is just kinda adding salt to a wound in an educational sense. I always hated questions like that. Just my take, but you'd love me as a student!

[contest_sanity]

I don't think it's superficial at all.  If I can't enable a student to understand why what I am teaching is actually important for life in the real world, then what the fuck am I even doing?  It's all just bullshit if it makes no impact on your life.

[Jamesman42]

Don't you think it's important that math relate to the actual lives of teenagers?  How often do we hear, "But when am I ever really gonna use this?"  James is trying to actually answer that for his students.

Wow. That is actually why I started making them write that...because every class literally had at least 2 people ask "When am I going to use this stuff?" So I have my answer for them prepared for each lesson.

re: rules

IDK James - how often do you ask for their feedback on stuff?  You could have "Feedback Friday," where you ask for their opinions on things (oral or written).

Or what you could possibly do (I did this) is let them make a student "bill of rights," that is, rights that they have in the classroom.  You could say something like, "I know we've talked a lot about my rules, but I've been teaching for a while, and I'd like to know what YOU think would make you more successful in the classroom."  The one my students made did address how the teacher treats the student but it was also useful in pointing out how students have to respect one another if all students are to have their rights.

Tough question, though; it's easier to do stuff with rules and norms at the beginning of the year, I think.

yeah, my teacher is big on "the rules have already been set, just go over them again with them." I did that and the next day they were all angles, but then today it reverted quickly.

I like the idea of feedback friday. I'm thinking about it before really responding, though.

Can you explain the bill of rights thing further for me? Sounds very interesting.