Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rogue One

[Kotowboy]

It might make $2bn in a couple of weeks but it really has slowed down quite dramatically.

I expect Episode 8 and Rogue One to do similar. Maybe not $2bn each but start strong then dramatically tail off.

[Zantera]

This is how it looks for all movies though, every week being a drop off. Avatar really is the one exception to the rule, but SW7 really isn't an anomaly or anything, it faces the same struggles as other films. A guy at work saw it this weekend and complained about the theater being half empty on his screening, yet it has been out for what, 5-6 weeks?

[Cyclopssss]

Just watched it for the second time and I can't get over how perfectly cast Rey is.  Daisy Ridley does a fantastic job protraying her. As a viewer, somehow she manages to instantly endear you to her.

[Orbert]

[TioJorge]

Aw hell yeah. 

[Orbert]

So yeah, everyone knows that there are at least a few groups out there trying to restore the original Star Wars (not A New Hope, not Episode IV, just plain Star Wars) against George Lucas' will, but I didn't realize that one group finished it, and they were working from an original 35mm print (presumably "acquired" from a movie theater or perhaps studio vault).  But apparently it's done and looks pretty good.

Star Wars fans release restored 35 mm print of George Lucas' original film

[BlobVanDam]

I'm not sure if this is the same one I heard about a while back, although I think the one I'm thinking of was pieced together from the special editions, and random film sources of specific sections.
I'd be curious to see this restoration, although it looks like it's still not up to what Disney/Lucasfilm could release if they chose to. Still, much better than what we've been stuck with if you wanted to see the original unaltered film.

[Kotowboy]

I've said this before but Disney must know that if they release the original theatrical trilogy restored on Blu Ray - they'll sell by the shitload.


I'm sure they can afford to buy the rights from FOX for Episode 4.

[hefdaddy42]

I'm actually not sure how much money it would produce.  I would imagine the market would be substantially lower than the general SW fanbase.

The diehards would LOVE to have it (including me), but most of the rest would be like "WTF?  They are releasing it again?  Why should I buy it again?"  And then you tell them and they just blink at you.

[bosk1]

In many other contexts, I would agree with you.  But in this case, I think this is different and they would make a pretty significant amount of money from a re-release of the originals because (1) the Star Wars ban base is sufficiently huge, and (2) the percentage of the fan base that knows at least enough to know that the current edition is sufficiently different from the original edition is fairly significant and not a minority.  I am not basing that off of anything other than anecdotal evidence, so I could very well be wrong.  But I am fairly confident in that assessment.

[Calvin6s]

I'd be curious to see this restoration

It's only real purpose is posterity.  They did a great job on restoration, but it is hardly pristine looking.  The Despecialized version you mentioned has better repeat viewing value.

Both are worth having because the 35mm transfer puts your mind at ease that it is 100% legit original.  But, in reality, there are good edits and bad edits throughout the years.

One thing for sure, even the SFX of the original release are amazing when you compare it to movies of the same time frame.  Nothing like watching satellite TV, watching a late 70s to mid 80s movie, clicking the info button and realizing the movie came out after Return of the Jedi, but doesn't even look as good as 1977s A New Hope.

[Calvin6s]

Star Wars unaltered original trilogy release ad campaign.

Greedo shoots first.
Vader doesn't yell Noooooooooooo!!!!

Most would buy it for those two reasons alone.

[Orbert]

I was born in the 60's and grew up in the 70's.  I was around during the original Star Wars and never bought into the hype, never saw them in the theaters.  So I don't consider myself a fanboy by any stretch of the imagination.  But I would buy the original trilogy on Blu-ray or even DVD if they were released unaltered, just because I think it would be cool as hell to have them, and yes, I would watch them all at least once or twice because I like the movies.  I don't go apeshit over them, but they're good movies.  I would have to think that there are many, many people my age in a similar situation and mindset.

[Podaar]

I was born in the 60's and grew up in the 70's.  I was around during the original Star Wars and never bought into the hype, never saw them in the theaters.  So I don't consider myself a fanboy by any stretch of the imagination.  But I would buy the original trilogy on Blu-ray or even DVD if they were released unaltered, just because I think it would be cool as hell to have them, and yes, I would watch them all at least once or twice because I like the movies.  I don't go apeshit over them, but they're good movies.  I would have to think that there are many, many people my age in a similar situation and mindset.

Other than the bolded part, this is me exactly!

[Orbert]

I was a junior high rebel.  If it was mainstream, it wasn't cool.  Jaws, Star Wars, all the early "blockbuster" movies.  They may well have been very entertaining, but I wasn't going to fight a crowd to experience something just because everyone else was.

Eventually, they came to home video and/or cable TV, and I checked them out.  I like Star Wars.  Jaws is amusing, but kinda crap.

[Calvin6s]

I was a junior high rebel.  If it was mainstream, it wasn't cool.  Jaws, Star Wars, all the early "blockbuster" movies.

I was still young enough that a) my parents more or less decided which movies I saw in the theaters and b) was oblivious to what was and wasn't a blockbuster.  So I wasn't influenced by the herd or the need to rebel for Star Wars or Jaws.

I wasn't going to fight a crowd to experience something just because everyone else was.

Don't recall the crowds for Jaws or Star Wars.  And if I got tired, I could more or less become Yoda to my parent's Luke.

Now Empire and Jedi.  That was big line day.  And I was still young enough that the line was part of the event.  Discussing the theories with my young friends.  Maybe Vader was lying to Luke.  Remember, he told that baboon guy "he will join us or die".  Did you catch that?  (What passed as deep thought as a kid).

Jaws was cool, but what if he went up against Jeff Bridges' King Kong?

[BlobVanDam]

I'd be curious to see this restoration

It's only real purpose is posterity.  They did a great job on restoration, but it is hardly pristine looking.  The Despecialized version you mentioned has better repeat viewing value.

I agree, as I said it's got nothing on what Disney/Lucasfilm could do if they chose to. I'm not a Star Wars fanboy or a purist of any kind, I just don't like any of the additional scenes, and edits that change the scene itself, or the silly new establishing shots with CG monsters etc.
But I have no problem with fixing up some VFX issues, or adding a new sky matte painting. It's just an issue of where do you draw the line? Some people are ok with the current special editions, some people only want the original theatrical versions, and many people fall somewhere in between.
For that reason alone, I think the best solution is just to give people the original theatrical versions, and then Disney can release whatever special edition they want too. At least that way the fans have all the tools they need if they care enough to go crazy and make their own definitive version of the movie they love.

[kaos2900]

Is anyone else watching Rebels? Still loving the show and I'm also finally watching Clone Wars. Almost half way through season 3 and I'm loving all of the connections between the two shows. Honestly, The Clone Wars is the best thing that could have happened to the prequels. It just adds so much more depth to the characters and stories. One day once my kids are older I'm going to a massive Star Wars Marathon of:

Episode I
Episode II
The Clone Wars
Episode III
Rebels
Rogue One
Episode IV
Episode  V
Episode VI
Episode VII
Episode VIII
Episode IX

[Onno]

Yeah, TCW are awesome and so is Rebels. I've finished watching TCW but I have to catch up on Rebels.

[Implode]

Star Wars unaltered original trilogy release ad campaign.

Greedo shoots first.
Vader doesn't yell Noooooooooooo!!!!

Most would buy it for those two reasons alone.

I think you meant Greedo doesn't shoot at all. 

[Kotowboy]

I completely agree whenever anyone complains about people who  " blah de blah from X film was explained in an EU novel or comic book . . "

If it's not on the screen it didn't happen.

Casual movie goers like myself don't care about canon or SW outside of the 7 movies .

If such-and-such plot hole is "explained" in an EU novel or comic book - put it on screen.

[hefdaddy42]

If it's not on the screen it didn't happen.

Agreed, to a certain extent.

However, Lucasfilm/Disney have made it fairly clear that going forward, everything they produce is canon, unless otherwise noted.  So any new novels (even the YA novels), comics, animated shows, whatever, are all canon.  But anything really important will be in the films.

[Kotowboy]

Yeah also - anything in the prequels that is explained via a novel I don't care about.

A plot hole is a plot hole if you don't explain it in the film.

[hefdaddy42]

True.  A plot hole on film cannot be rescued by another medium.

[Calvin6s]

The term plot hole is thrown around too loosely.  See The Force Awakens and Prequel plot hole lists.

Saying that the TFA trench run lacked drama is not a plot hole.  Poor writing possibly, but not a plot hole.

Pointing out something happened by a series of coincidences is not a plot hole.  It's a movie.  We are only going to see the parts that matter.  So it may appear everything went right, but why would they turn a 2 hour movie into a 10 hour movie to show you all the incidents that ultimately led to nothing?  Heck, we see one of those and people go


The thing about Star Wars movies is that they always cover only a few days.  So you are going to have to fill in what happened between with a title crawl, dialogue (and then complain about too much talking, not enough action) or a flashback (which can become a cheap device quickly).  And it has to be minimized greatly or the movie is just pure exposition.

And then when things do get explained with more detail, people will complain it didn't need to be explained any more than the few original dialogue lines.

[bosk1]

Intruder alert!

[Orbert]

It can be a tough balancing act between giving enough detail and boring the audience with too much.  I like a certain amount of letting the audience connect the dots.  That tells me that the director is giving the audience some credit.  But some people need everything spelled out for them.  Why is that person doing that?  Because he said he was going to "do something about it" and this is his solution.  Come on, it's not that hard.  But then, some people are morons.

Anyway, letting the audience connect the dots isn't a plot hole.  Presenting something which comes out of nowhere with no explanation at all is a plot hole.  How is that person even there?  Last we knew, they were in a South American prison.  "Well, in the book, they explain how..."  Fuck that.  That's a plot hole.  It's not "connecting the dots" so somehow come to the conclusion that they escaped from a South American prison with the help of a guard who was bribed with the promise of 1000 U.S. dollars and sex with a relative to be named later.  You at least have to at least give us something.

[Zantera]

People throw around the "plot hole" word way too easily these days. Sometimes there are plot holes, but a lot of things that people call plot holes are just things that aren't explained, and doesn't need to be explained either. For example, in Attack of the Clones towards the end, Natalie Portman runs out on that platform and fires to the ship with Dooku and then says "we got to get to that hangar", without having any information about the destination of the ship (which is indeed a hangar). That's what I would call a plot hole. But then some people mention The Dark Knight Rises and says that it's a plot hole that Batman manages to return to Gotham after being deported by Bane. I wouldn't call that a plot hole. Batman is Batman, if he wants to get back to Gotham, he will get back to Gotham, they just didn't show us when he did it. So I wouldn't call that a plot hole.

To me the difference is that a plot hole is something you can't explain, whereas something like the TDKR example is something you can explain, you just didn't get to see it happen.

[Calvin6s]

Any general thoughts on some main themes of where 8 an 9 (and even 10-12) could be going?

Both the Empire and First Order are more or less based off the Nazis.  The Emperor's rise was cool in that he didn't just try to fight his way to the top spot (like Saddam or other military dictators).  It was closer to Hitler, with the twist of the Allies being a puppet threat to unify against.

Hopefully it isn't just redeeming Ren and defeating the First Order.  They've already set up some nice complexities with the Republic and the Resistance.  Leia is essentially the war hawk.

Possibility 1.  Resistance="The West".  First Order=Germany.  What if we had some more players like a Russia that the Resistance teams up with to defeat F.O. Germany, only to enter a whole new confrontation with the Russia character for Ep. 10-12

2.  Syria-ISIS.  Perhaps the Third Reich F.O. allies with a "Middle East".  They are defeated, but the Middle East is now in a slow boil ready to go off with different factions.  In Ep. 10-12, we at first think the Gaddafis and Assads are the villains, only to have ISIS quickly add a new dimension.  Now we don't just have 2 or 3 major entities, but 4+.

That's expanding the playing field.  You could also go inward.

3.  We find out Rey wasn't a pupil of Luke's, but of Ren's or Snoke's.  She ends up joining Ren/Snoke or teaming up with one to kill the other to form the new villain base.

4.  Leia becomes paranoid and the Resistance isn't now the good in good v. evil, but the lesser of two evils.

5.  Is the Skywalker bloodline the galaxy's savior or bane?

Those are just a few very general "create an ending first and build the story around it" possibilities.  Anybody else want to come up with some general directions that aren't a straight repeat of Star Wars 4 to 6?  Perhaps from people that actually consider themselves authors here (paid, aspiring or hobbyist).

[Calvin6s]

But then some people mention The Dark Knight Rises and says that it's a plot hole that Batman manages to return to Gotham after being deported by Bane.

You mean people that are deported seem to find a way back?  This has never once happened in the history of reality.

[Calvin6s]

Is This the Star Wars: Episode 8 Plot?
Answer:  No possible way.

This sounds like the Star Wars plots I'd come up with at 6yo playing with my Kenner Star Wars toys.

[Zantera]

I don't think it's necessarily that far off. It will probably be different, but I can see many of those plot points turn out correct in the actual film.

[hefdaddy42]

The working title for Episode VIII is Space Bear.

I hope they keep that for the actual title.  It will be the best SW film title ever.

[Kotowboy]

I can hear the ultra annoying "Honest Trailers" voice now...

" Space Bear - a title so stupid..."

[BlobVanDam]

The working title for Episode VIII is Space Bear.

I hope they keep that for the actual title.  It will be the best SW film title ever.

That would be amazing. Just imagine the opening crawl.

LUKE SKYWALKER HAS BEEN LOCATED.
KYLO REN HAS BEGUN REBUILDING IN
THE WAKE OF THE DESTRUCTION OF
THE STARKILLER BASE OH GOD IS THAT
A GIANT FUCKING SPACE BEAR?!?!!
SERIOUSLY GUYS, GET THE HELL OUT
OF HERE! JAKKU ISN'T LOOKING SO
BAD NOW, IS IT, REY? I BET YOU
NEVER HAD TO WORRY ABOUT THE
SPACE BEARS MAULING YOUR PLANET
TO DEATH IN ONE SWOOP OF THEIR
GIANT SPACE PAWS.